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Zaragoza
08-19-2007, 03:20 AM
According to Spanish newspaper Marca, sport TV Channels from America are making Indian Wells and Miami start one week later in 2008. The reason is the NCAA basketball Final Four in 2008 was scheduled at the same time and it´s a big event in America with big TV audiences so delaying Indian Wells and Miami one week they can broadcast and keep the audiences from all these events.
That´s going to affect other tournaments, especially on clay. Montecarlo, Barcelona, Rome and Hamburg will be played in consecutive weeks, that is 4 consecutive weeks, making it much harder to play all of them (that´s what Nadal has done in the last years but it seems he can´t keep it next year).
So I don´t know what´s going to happen to clay tournaments in Munich and Estoril (usually scheduled the week between Barcelona and Rome).
I just found it on the Spanish website:

http://www.marca.com/edicion/marca/tenis/es/desarrollo/1027237.html

I hope this story is right but I would like to confirm this from other sites. If that´s true, don´t you think it´s crazy that american tv channels can affect the ATP calendar so much? It´s not only Indian Wells and Miami that would change but other clay tournaments, making it much harder (impossible to be honest) to play all those 4 tournaments with so much tradition in consecutive weeks. Anyway, as I said I wait for confirmation from other sites.

Fedexeon
08-19-2007, 05:25 AM
Well, America is the biggest market afterall.

Moose Malloy
04-08-2008, 12:20 PM
Nadal addressed after the Miami final:

Q. A lot of the European players tell us that this part of the calendar is very hard for them. They get tired being in the United States for a month or over five weeks. You seem to play well in these tournaments. Are you comfortable here in the United States for that long of time? And if so, why is that?

RAFAEL NADAL: I'm very comfortable in United States, but not for this time. It's not fair have one month, two tournaments, and after go back to Europe and we have to play three Masters Series on clay.
We only have three Masters Series on clay during all the season, and we have three Masters Series in four weeks. So for us it's terrible, that.
And three Masters Series in the middle of the biggest tournament on clay in the world: Barcelona. So if you see the calendar, that is unbelievable.
Everybody can say about the Olympics. Is not for the Olympics. This year we have that. It's because these two tournaments are one week later, because you have university or something like this, college basketball. I respect 100% the college basketball. I think it's very important.
I know here it's very important, the college basketball, because I saw always the American players and the mens in the locker room watching always this.
But, well, we can't have the calendar thinking about the college basketball, no? So we are 100% disappointed about this decision of the ATP.
Finally the European players are, well, I don't know, very angry about these decisions, no? For me it's terrible. You know, I'm a clay player, but I can play very well on all surface. But play four weeks it's impossible if you are playing well, no?

http://www.asapsports.com/show_interview.php?id=48766

TNT16
04-08-2008, 12:28 PM
Well, America is the biggest market afterall.

The biggest market with the crappiest TV coverage of the events which are being shifted in the calendar . . . so hopefully that will result in better coverage . . . not holding my breath though if FSN has IW and Miami for more than this year.

simi
04-08-2008, 12:37 PM
Don't buy the story about television, because network television doesn't show tennis much anyway. Television coverage is abysmal in the states, outside of TTC. The Olympics affecting the calendar has more merit.

Don't have the statistics to back it up, but I'd bet a small sum of money that more than half the top-100 or top-150 "European" players live in the U.S. anyway. Many names come to mind.

Finally, it is just as difficult for North and South American players to go to Europe for the clay/grass season. It is a longer "season" when the pros cannot be with their families at "home".

It's a tough life to be a pro tennis player. Not worth the fame, glory, and glamor, in my opinion. Unless you are at the top of the game, the pay is lousy too.

Eviscerator
04-08-2008, 01:52 PM
If thatīs true, donīt you think itīs crazy that american tv channels can affect the ATP calendar so much? Itīs not only Indian Wells and Miami that would change but other clay tournaments,

If true I agree and have made similar observations recently in these threads;

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=190409

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=190255

The "almighty dollar" should not alter the integrity of the sport.

Moose Malloy
04-08-2008, 02:29 PM
The "almighty dollar" should not alter the integrity of the sport.

The 'integrity of the sport' has been altered for quite some time. They invented the tiebreak & started playing night matches at the majors due to televison. The sole reason of the challenge system is for fan interest. Pro sports is all about money, & CBS is a big reason why Miami offers the most prize money outside of the majors.

Don't buy the story about television, because network television doesn't show tennis much anyway.

CBS has covered the Miami mens & womens finals for many years, they like to have some other sporting events that weekend as an 'appetizer' for the Final Four. As long as I can remember the finals were held the weekend of the Final Four. Not sure what changed this year with the atp schedule(since the Final Four is on the same days every year), but I understand why CBS wanted that tournament to remain on the same weekend this year.

Its the same reason why the USO SF/Finals are played back to back days on the same weekend every year, CBS wants it as a bookend to their NFL coverage.

TV is very powerful when it comes to dictating the schedule of sports.

Nadal_Freak
04-08-2008, 02:42 PM
What a joke America is. I live here but doesn't mean I support their decisions. Deport me now to Spain. haha

Rob_C
04-08-2008, 02:57 PM
I'd say it's the Olympics that is causing the schedule change this year. I checked 2004 and the same schedule changes were made.

edberg505
04-08-2008, 03:04 PM
What a joke America is. I live here but doesn't mean I support their decisions. Deport me now to Spain. haha

I'm sure it can't be that hard to get a one way ticket.

Moose Malloy
04-08-2008, 03:47 PM
I'd say it's the Olympics that is causing the schedule change this year. I checked 2004 and the same schedule changes were made.

so why would Nadal think this? Its odd for the NCAA's to just be mentioned for no reason.

I'm looking at the 2007 & 2008 schedule, there are some differences.

start date for Miami in '07 - 3/19

start date in '08 - 3/27

Now I'm curious what day the Final Four was last year.

Edit: It was on March 31, so it seems like this theory is plausible. I wonder why the NCAA schedule was different this year?

daddy
04-08-2008, 04:26 PM
I'd say it's the Olympics that is causing the schedule change this year. I checked 2004 and the same schedule changes were made.


So if facts, Nadals speach and newspapers all around the world can not convince you this is because of other sporting events and TV coverage you must be a stubbern son of ... ;) Really it's TV, get over it.

Sports_fan
04-08-2008, 11:02 PM
The biggest market with the crappiest TV coverage of the events which are being shifted in the calendar . . . so hopefully that will result in better coverage . . . not holding my breath though if FSN has IW and Miami for more than this year.

I agree its been some real bad coverage. I hope IW and Mami return to ESPN2 at least I'll get to see whole matches instead of parts.

tangerine
04-09-2008, 07:18 AM
The biggest market with the crappiest TV coverage of the events which are being shifted in the calendar . . . so hopefully that will result in better coverage . . . not holding my breath though if FSN has IW and Miami for more than this year.
I agree. ESPN dropped coverage of IW/Miami in favor of the NCAA tournament. Therefore, there's no reason for ATP to move IW/Miami to accommodate US broadcasters because ESPN is/was not broadcasting it.

I'd say it's the Olympics that is causing the schedule change this year. I checked 2004 and the same schedule changes were made.
Yes, the Olympics will affect many sports this year.

Bobble
04-09-2008, 08:02 AM
Money talks

veroniquem
04-09-2008, 08:05 AM
They're trying to mess up the clay court season. No American is good on clay at the moment. They even want to take away a masters on clay starting next year.

BMG
04-09-2008, 08:11 AM
TV is very powerful when it comes to dictating the schedule of sports.

Just look at the major championships in other "major" American sports. The World Series and NBA championships all start at about 9:15pm EST and end sometimes after midnight. The NCAA mens basketball final (which was a great game to watch) ended around midnight. What kid gets to watch this stuff anymore??? Television dictates; yet the sports are losing young fans.

bluetrain4
04-09-2008, 08:16 AM
Even as is, it's just too much tennis in too short of a period. Barcelona, Rome, Monte Carlo, Hamburg within 5 weeks is already a bit much, within 4 weeks is ridiculous.

It's an odd move, since tennis isn't really that big over in the States. I guess, they are thinking that they can attract more casual fans if they don'ta have to compete with the NCAAs, but I doubt it will do much. The hardcore fans (like US) will watch regardless.

I've never heard of Eurpoean tourneys being moved because of soccer tourneys or anything else.

Moose Malloy
04-09-2008, 08:21 AM
ESPN dropped coverage of IW/Miami in favor of the NCAA tournament. Therefore, there's no reason for ATP to move IW/Miami to accommodate US broadcasters because ESPN is/was not broadcasting it.


What does what espn does have to do with CBS? totally different networks with totally different deals. I'd love to know how much CBS pays to broadcast just the Miami finals in comparison with how much Eurosport or Sky pays to broadcast the entire event. Pretty amazing that just 2 matches(the men's & women's final) that aren't exactly ratings barnburners in the US can be responsible for changing the ATP calendar. Guess that shows what the ATP considers the most important market to be.

BTW, espn doesn't cover the NCAA men's tournament at all, there were other reasons they didn't cover Miami(NCAA's womens tournament, MLB's opening day was last Monday - & they had many games throughout the week, plus NBA games. I can't imagine how they could have fit tennis on last week, unless they put it on at 2 am or something. or on espn classic. It was just bad timing, which ironically was caused by CBS causing the tournament to move. If it stayed where it was, there would have been less sports to compete with on espn, & espn may have kept it imo)

It's an odd move, since tennis isn't really that big over in the States. I guess, they are thinking that they can attract more casual fans if they don'ta have to compete with the NCAAs, but I doubt it will do much. The hardcore fans (like US) will watch regardless.

I've never heard of Eurpoean tourneys being moved because of soccer tourneys or anything else.

Read my post, CBS didn't want tennis to move to avoid competing with NCAAs(since they cover both) but to be part of their sports coverage that weekend. Remember final four was just on Saturday, the mens final was on Sunday. Tennis was just an appetizer on that network, but they still didn't want to lose it. If tennis was on the previous week, as it was originally going to be, CBS wouldn't have been able to show it(that was the sweet 16 weekend, more games than just final 4)

And I think many need to reconsider the whole 'tennis isn't that big in the states' thing. It isn't that big relative to other sports here, but even as the 10th most popular sport here, its still obviously a much bigger market than countries where it is the #2 or #3 sport. The ATP knows where the money is(& has always been)
Why do you think the US has so many more events than any other country?

Stchamps
04-09-2008, 08:22 AM
Just look at the major championships in other "major" American sports. The World Series and NBA championships all start at about 9:15pm EST and end sometimes after midnight. The NCAA mens basketball final (which was a great game to watch) ended around midnight. What kid gets to watch this stuff anymore??? Television dictates; yet the sports are losing young fans.

I stayed up til midnight watching that stuff when I was younger. And it's eastern, so in like 2/3 -3/4 of the U.S. it ends 9-11 pm.

bluetrain4
04-09-2008, 08:35 AM
What does what espn does have to do with CBS? totally different networks with totally different deals. I'd love to know how much CBS pays to broadcast just the Miami finals in comparison with how much Eurosport or Sky pays to broadcast the entire event. Pretty amazing that just 2 matches(the men's & women's final) that aren't exactly ratings barnburners in the US can be responsible for changing the ATP calendar. Guess that shows what the ATP considers the most important market to be.

BTW, espn doesn't cover the NCAA men's tournament at all, there were other reasons they didn't cover Miami(NCAA's womens tournament, MLB's opening day was last Monday - & they had many games throughout the week, plus NBA games. I can't imagine how they could have fit tennis on last week, unless they put it on at 2 am or something. or on espn classic. It was just bad timing, which ironically was caused by CBS causing the tournament to move. If it stayed where it was, there would have been less sports to compete with on espn, & espn may have kept it imo)



Read my post, CBS didn't want tennis to move to avoid competing with NCAAs(since they cover both) but to be part of their sports coverage that weekend. Remember final four was just on Saturday, the mens final was on Sunday. Tennis was just an appetizer on that network, but they still didn't want to lose it. If tennis was on the previous week, as it was originally going to be, CBS wouldn't have been able to show it(that was the sweet 16 weekend, more games than just final 4)

And I think many need to reconsider the whole 'tennis isn't that big in the states' thing. It isn't that big relative to other sports here, but even as the 10th most popular sport here, its still obviously a much bigger market than countries where it is the #2 or #3 sport. The ATP knows where the money is(& has always been)
Why do you think the US has so many more events than any other country?

Very good points. I tend to think of tennis as small and relatively unimportant beause of its space in the overall sports landscape in the U.S. But, you're right. The market is huge and there are a lot of dollars floating around.

BMG
04-09-2008, 08:36 AM
I stayed up til midnight watching that stuff when I was younger. And it's eastern, so in like 2/3 -3/4 of the U.S. it ends 9-11 pm.

I'm sure you did stay up until midnight..good for you! (A substantial portion, maybe over 50% or 60%, of the US population is in eastern and central zones so these games are ending after 11pm in many cases). But my 12 & 14 year olds aren't staying up on school nights (and even when they are allowed they fall asleep by 11pm easily). My point is that television has taken away the day game in major sports. I am not arguing the point that it is a business decision, nor am I taking issue with their argument.....but it is causing a loss of young fans and that is a fact and frustrating.

Moose Malloy
04-09-2008, 09:18 AM
Just look at the major championships in other "major" American sports. The World Series and NBA championships all start at about 9:15pm EST and end sometimes after midnight. The NCAA mens basketball final (which was a great game to watch) ended around midnight. What kid gets to watch this stuff anymore??? Television dictates; yet the sports are losing young fans.

I'm sure you did stay up until midnight..good for you! (A substantial portion, maybe over 50% or 60%, of the US population is in eastern and central zones so these games are ending after 11pm in many cases). But my 12 & 14 year olds aren't staying up on school nights (and even when they are allowed they fall asleep by 11pm easily). My point is that television has taken away the day game in major sports. I am not arguing the point that it is a business decision, nor am I taking issue with their argument.....but it is causing a loss of young fans and that is a fact and frustrating.

Yeah, I found this quite annoying as well. Then I moved to the west coast, which makes my sports watching a lot less taxing:)

But you are right, it is a shame that money(meaning TV advertisers) had changed the sports landscape so much. I mean, I understand why they nixed day games for the world series & LCS during week days, but why not still have WS day games on the weekend? would it really hurt FOX that much? would ratings really be different? The WS gets such low ratings anyway.

Ditto with NBA, I recall many NBA finals when Jordan was playing that started a lot earlier than the 9 pm eastern time start of recent years.

It's funny though, the ratings for all championships in the major sports has gone down so much here over the last 10 years(except NFL), wonder if the start times has anything to do with that?

And I wonder if this is also a factor in why participation numbers for kids in baseball, basketball, etc is so down, obesity up, etc. They can't really develop a passion for a sport when the most important games in those sports are played so late at night.

Rob_C
04-09-2008, 11:48 AM
So if facts, Nadals speach and newspapers all around the world can not convince you this is because of other sporting events and TV coverage you must be a stubbern son of ... ;) Really it's TV, get over it.

Go to steve g tennis dot com and look at the calendar for 2004, the last year they held the Olympics, and tell me what you think. Pretty much the same changes. I watch alot of college basketball and March Madness has always 'interfered' with the coverage for IW, and Miami.

I cant believe Nadal blamed March Madness instead of the Olympics. I think that's silly.

tomas9848
07-25-2008, 06:23 AM
im tired of waiting to midnight to see a good match

Murray_Maniac
07-25-2008, 06:28 AM
im tired of waiting to midnight to see a good match

Then get dvr

simi
07-25-2008, 07:15 AM
Then get dvr

Allows you to fast-forward past the changover commercials too.