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tt_the_man
08-19-2007, 04:29 PM
How good is the phsyical conditioning of pro tennis players? For example, does anyone know how fast a typical top 100 male player would finish a 5K run? It would be interesting to know how they compare to recreational players, and pro players of other sports like baseball (which has many fat, out-of-shape players).

lethalfang
08-19-2007, 04:42 PM
Most fat baseball players are either pitchers, 1st basemen, or designated hitters. They almost never have to run.
Tennis players cover a lot of distance in a 2-hour match.

Craig Sheppard
08-19-2007, 05:20 PM
I just got back from watching a lot of pros practice... A lot of them weren't wearing shirts, so you can tell who's carrying some fat and who isn't. Most of these guys are totally ripped... they are in SUPER shape. I don't know how fast they run, but I bet they could be pretty fast. I have never seen a recreational player anywhere near the shape they're in.

daddy
08-19-2007, 05:23 PM
Perfect shape. Try working a tennis court with fast oponent with precise shots. 1 hour and youre done, but you have to play against good guys, no old guys or ones who only shoot the ball back. Also harder the ball is hit, its more demanding. They are top shaped, but I think theres a difference in every sports, they can play 5 hours of tennis but would die after 45 mins of basketball, simply they are using different muscles. Or after 20 minutes of swimming they would be off,.

tennispro11
08-19-2007, 05:24 PM
They are in great shape. They can run on the court for hours on end. They could give alot of athletes a run for their money as far as the fitness goes.

Fedace
08-19-2007, 05:42 PM
How good is the phsyical conditioning of pro tennis players? For example, does anyone know how fast a typical top 100 male player would finish a 5K run? It would be interesting to know how they compare to recreational players, and pro players of other sports like baseball (which has many fat, out-of-shape players).

Ask their girlfriends..;)

raiden031
08-19-2007, 06:03 PM
I honestly don't think tennis players are in as good of shape as other athletes like basketball or soccer players, or even some football players. I played HS football and found that sport to be far far more physically demanding than tennis, even if you exclude the hitting aspect of it. Just running through the plays at full speed over and over is exhausting. My legs always cramped up in the evenings after games. In tennis I get a good workout, but its not as intense as football. But let me also say that football can vary depending on position. I played mainly outside linebacker so I had to do pass coverage as well as being able to catch people trying to run around the outside, which would be more demanding than a lineman, who might be able to get away with being grossly overweight.

I've also played some basketball for fun and always get more winded than playing tennis.

Thing thing about tennis is there is alot of rest time and many points where there isn't much running. Even so, I found tennis to be by far one of the most difficult sports simply because it just takes so long to get good at it because there is so much precision involved and so many shots to learn.

lethalfang
08-19-2007, 06:19 PM
I honestly don't think tennis players are in as good of shape as other athletes like basketball or soccer players, or even some football players.

...... ......

Thing thing about tennis is there is alot of rest time and many points where there isn't much running. Even so, I found tennis to be by far one of the most difficult sports simply because it just takes so long to get good at it because there is so much precision involved and so many shots to learn.

Speaking of rest time, you can say the same for basketball, soccer, or football.
A basketball game lasts about 2 1/2 hours, and the actual playing time for a starter is about 20-35 min.
A football game lasts 3 hours, and the actual game time is only 48 minutes, and on average the defense and offense each play about 20 minutes, plus substitutions.
Soccer players do not run perpetually, either. They use their energy only when there is action nearby.

When I started out playing tennis, I thought it was not a very physically demanding game. That view has changed when I've gotten better. When you have to be in position each time, and take a big loopy swing each time, it becomes a lot more physically demanding than beginners who just push the ball around.

I mainly play basketball and tennis. For the most part, my playing limit for either sports is about 3 hours before I have to call it quit.

Tennis_Monk
08-19-2007, 07:02 PM
The comparisons between sports is not valid. It is not the same as recreational tennis or recreational basket ball.

To be an elite athlete in any of the sports, one has to be in great physical shape. Kobe Bryant and Rafeal Nadal are Superb Athletes. It is a given that Kobe wont be able to keep up as the same level of ball striking /court coverage as Nadal does. Nadal will not be able to keep up with Kobe on Basket ball court. But they both are Elite Athletes and they got to where they are today by working harder and smarter.

tennispro11
08-19-2007, 07:14 PM
The comparisons between sports is not valid. It is not the same as recreational tennis or recreational basket ball.

To be an elite athlete in any of the sports, one has to be in great physical shape. Kobe Bryant and Rafeal Nadal are Superb Athletes. It is a given that Kobe wont be able to keep up as the same level of ball striking /court coverage as Nadal does. Nadal will not be able to keep up with Kobe on Basket ball court. But they both are Elite Athletes and they got to where they are today by working harder and smarter.

Well said. This thread wasn't started trying to compare tennis pros to other sports professionals. He was just wondering if they are in great shape or not. Plain and simple. So stop trying to compare other sports.

raiden031
08-19-2007, 07:18 PM
Speaking of rest time, you can say the same for basketball, soccer, or football.
A basketball game lasts about 2 1/2 hours, and the actual playing time for a starter is about 20-35 min.
A football game lasts 3 hours, and the actual game time is only 48 minutes, and on average the defense and offense each play about 20 minutes, plus substitutions.
Soccer players do not run perpetually, either. They use their energy only when there is action nearby.

When I started out playing tennis, I thought it was not a very physically demanding game. That view has changed when I've gotten better. When you have to be in position each time, and take a big loopy swing each time, it becomes a lot more physically demanding than beginners who just push the ball around.

I mainly play basketball and tennis. For the most part, my playing limit for either sports is about 3 hours before I have to call it quit.

There might be rest time in other sports, but in tennis there are many points in a tennis match that require little effort. I definitely play a physical style of tennis and I even run for every stray ball I pick up and basically take no time between serves and still don't get very tired compared to other sports. 20 minutes of basketball (and I suck pretty bad) is more intense for me than 1 hour of tennis even though I run everything down.

Also I would never get beat in b-ball or even touch football by a 70 year old but I could in tennis.

Definitely pro level players have to be in great shape, but I'm sure I see people jogging on the street every day that are more physically fit than them who aren't even pro athletes.

raiden031
08-19-2007, 07:20 PM
Well said. This thread wasn't started trying to compare tennis pros to other sports professionals. He was just wondering if they are in great shape or not. Plain and simple. So stop trying to compare other sports.

What part of this sentence from the original post do you not understand?


It would be interesting to know how they compare to recreational players, and pro players of other sports like baseball (which has many fat, out-of-shape players).

tennispro11
08-19-2007, 07:23 PM
What part of this sentence from the original post do you not understand?

My fault. I thougth I was in another thread. Didn't mean to post it in this one.

Nadal_Freak
08-19-2007, 07:25 PM
Fitness can change for each sport but I would be interested is which sport usually requires to have the least body fat.

edmondsm
08-19-2007, 07:31 PM
It is not logical to judge any athlete's "fitness" according to anything other than what they do for their particular sport. Meaning, judging how in shape they are by how fast they run a 5k is dumb. The only people that should care about that are mid-distance track athletes. Would you really say that a world champ in the 5k is in "better shape" than a world champ marathon runner because of their 5k times?

For a tennis player the lower leg muscles are crucial because when they tire out, the footwork goes away. They also would want to be very fit in the abdomen and lower back I would think.

But if we are talking about wind sprints or something, then yes I would pick a fast basketball or soccer player over the equivalent tennis player.

edmondsm
08-19-2007, 07:33 PM
Fitness can change for each sport but I would be interested is which sport usually requires to have the least body fat.

Many American football players have extremely low body fat. Sometimes under 5%.

Fedexeon
08-19-2007, 07:34 PM
When you say football players are fit, do you mean this?
http://i.usatoday.net/sports/_photos/2007/08/19/boise-carousel.jpg

isuk@tennis
08-19-2007, 07:37 PM
Fitness can change for each sport but I would be interested is which sport usually requires to have the least body fat.

golf....no wait that would be most body fat. i would have to guess long distance running those guys looks skinny as heck

isuk@tennis
08-19-2007, 07:38 PM
When you say football players are fit, do you mean this?
http://i.usatoday.net/sports/_photos/2007/08/19/boise-carousel.jpg

thats not fat that's soft muscle

Harry_Wild
08-19-2007, 07:44 PM
The only football players that have maybe 5% body fat would probably the safetys, cornerbacks and the wide receivers. All the rest including the quarterback are in the 12% or more category! Offiensive line is in the upper 30%!

Schills
08-19-2007, 07:45 PM
Fitness can change for each sport but I would be interested is which sport usually requires to have the least body fat.

That's an easy one. Cycling.

lethalfang
08-19-2007, 07:57 PM
Fitness can change for each sport but I would be interested is which sport usually requires to have the least body fat.

That's hard to generalize, e.g. Michael Jordan vs. Shaquille O'Neal.

J011yroger
08-19-2007, 08:01 PM
Fitness can change for each sport but I would be interested is which sport usually requires to have the least body fat.

I would think wrestling/boxing. Something with weight categorys.

J

Zets147
08-19-2007, 08:02 PM
Definitely pro level players have to be in great shape, but I'm sure I see people jogging on the street every day that are more physically fit than them who aren't even pro athletes.

Oy, oy. "You can't be serious"

tennispro11
08-19-2007, 08:05 PM
Oy, oy. "You can't be serious"

Oh, but he was. I think that he might be what we call "********." :)

Zets147
08-19-2007, 08:08 PM
Ah, I see. At least he wasn't a "chunk"

JW10S
08-19-2007, 08:16 PM
It's amazing to me that such a question would even be asked. The pros do no just show to play their matches, warm up for 5 mins, play, then take the rest of the day off. They spend hours on and off court training and have the longest season of any professional sport. They are in great shape...

Stchamps
08-19-2007, 08:33 PM
Depends how you define being in good shape. They might be able to run for hours, but they don't really have much muscle on them. I know people are gonna argue me on this, but I've seen plenty of them with their shirts off and it's nothing pretty. Even ESPN photoshopped Andy Roddick's arms on the cover.

tenis
08-19-2007, 09:01 PM
It is sooo stupid compare a different sports. Just look: a lot fat baseball players, fotball(soccer in US)-a lot of "free" time, the same-rugby and american fotball. And then we have golf, chess and than athletics (runers, etc..).

usfferjenn
08-19-2007, 09:04 PM
It's amazing to me that such a question would even be asked. The pros do no just show to play their matches, warm up for 5 mins, play, then take the rest of the day off. They spend hours on and off court training and have the longest season of any professional sport. They are in great shape...

true, athletes spend hours conditioning just so that they can even perform their respective sports.

Muscle size is not necessarily an indicator of how highly conditioned an athlete is. Highly, trained and conditioned athletes have lower resting heart rates compared to the the regular population. A low resting heart rate is an indicator of how in shape someone is. I think Lance Armstrong's is like 50 where the normal range is typically 70-75 for a healthy person. I don't know what any of the tennis players' are.

Zets147
08-19-2007, 09:08 PM
Poker players especially excel in fitness. Have you ever seen Daniel Negreanu play? That guy is a beast. Another one to look out for the Chris T. Moneymaker. His name already implies that he is sent from the heavens to make Money using his superior fitness level. These guys just outclass pretty much every other athlete on the planet.

KuramaIX
08-19-2007, 09:15 PM
Some have guts... federer, blake, nalbandian

crazylevity
08-19-2007, 09:44 PM
Speaking of rest time, you can say the same for basketball, soccer, or football.
A basketball game lasts about 2 1/2 hours, and the actual playing time for a starter is about 20-35 min.
A football game lasts 3 hours, and the actual game time is only 48 minutes, and on average the defense and offense each play about 20 minutes, plus substitutions.
Soccer players do not run perpetually, either. They use their energy only when there is action nearby.
When I started out playing tennis, I thought it was not a very physically demanding game. That view has changed when I've gotten better. When you have to be in position each time, and take a big loopy swing each time, it becomes a lot more physically demanding than beginners who just push the ball around.

I mainly play basketball and tennis. For the most part, my playing limit for either sports is about 3 hours before I have to call it quit.

Even if it isn't a full out sprint, most of them are at least jogging most of the time. Liverpool captain Steven Gerrard regularly covers 12km at least when he plays a full match, same for Manchester Utd and England striker Wayne Rooney.

lakis92
08-20-2007, 04:07 AM
I have said it before but tennis is the only sport to have that significant impact on the human body. Tennis players get more tired than any other athlete and it's the only sport that players have to stop and rest that often. That's why they are soooo fit as they have to be I think.

MaxT
08-20-2007, 10:11 AM
cardio: long distance runner.
athletic strength: football.
mobility: soccer.
overall balance of body: tennis, boxing; tennis more balance boxing more strength.

Basketball has too many positions to define. I think the best athelets are point guards or small forwards, like the 5'8 Nat Robinson who can dunk, or Steve Francis. Jordan is widely considered a great athlete, but being 6'6 he may be too tall for many other activities, and I don't think he could match the best of 6'1 people if height were not an advantage.

lethalfang
08-20-2007, 10:27 AM
Basketball, especially at the position of shooting guard and small forward, has some of world's most amazing athletes. You don't meet many guys who are 230 lb. and 6'7 in real life, and the few you do meet, are usually stiff. However, NBA superstars like Kobe Bryant, Dwyane Wade, and LeBron James can flat out fly.
Now speaking of fitness, I must say on average tennis players are more fit than basketball, only because there are those fat backup players with mistake contracts bringing down the average. Now in tennis, there's simply no way to survive a match if you are unfit.

princess bossass
08-20-2007, 11:04 AM
Fitness can change for each sport but I would be interested is which sport usually requires to have the least body fat.

Horseracing! Them teeny little jockeys gots to watch every calorie.

Nadal_Freak
08-20-2007, 11:37 AM
Rank in order of least body fat to be more specific. Point guards, clay court specialists, wide receivers, and soccer players.

goforgold99
08-20-2007, 02:13 PM
thats not fat that's soft muscle
LOL, yeah right! :D

there is no such thing as "soft" muscle. if a muscle looks soft then because there is a layer of bodyfat above it ;)

fps
08-20-2007, 02:29 PM
Even if it isn't a full out sprint, most of them are at least jogging most of the time. Liverpool captain Steven Gerrard regularly covers 12km at least when he plays a full match, same for Manchester Utd and England striker Wayne Rooney.

For sheer legs i find it hard to look beyond the fittest pro footballers, these two are great examples. However, in tennis if you lose the legs, your career is over, whereas sporting intelligence counts for a lot more in football, allowing players like Zidane and Scholes to shine into their 30s

princess bossass
08-20-2007, 02:43 PM
I think we might need some shirtless photos of pros like Safin, Federer, and Roddick as evidence. We can closely examine said evidence to prove either that these men are fit or that they are not. Photos. Definitely photos.

tennispro11
08-20-2007, 02:48 PM
I think we might need some shirtless photos of pros like Safin, Federer, and Roddick as evidence. We can closely examine said evidence to prove either that these men are fit or that they are not. Photos. Definitely photos.

Here you go. Hopefully you like this. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhlzQcd_Fd8&mode=related&search=

TennezSport
08-20-2007, 03:07 PM
Tennis players today are in the best shape of any player in tennis history, thanks to Navratilova and Lendl. If I could compare tennis to other sports, then I think soccer(futbol) or basketball would be close. However, it is not about muscle or body size as these things in Tennis will hurt you. It is about eye hand coordination, conditioning, speed, anticipation and execution (See Pat Etcheberry's book).

Rafa and Fed are great examples for this point. Everyone raves about Rafas muscles, but this could be Rafas worst problem as big muscles cause more wear on the body in tennis. Uses more energy to move, puts more wear on ligaments and slows reaction time. Rafa makes up for the reaction with great determination, but at what cost??? Fed on the other hand, is strong but slender, allowing mobility with less effort. It also allows him to reach further to make a shot and control it with little or no muscle strain and faster recover time.

Exersion to recovery time is another issue. When you are big (whether muscle or fat), it takes longer for you to recover for the next point. This is why you see Rafa take so long between points. He needs to get oxygen to those big muscles to be ready for the next point.

If you do not believe that todays players are not in better shape, just ask McEnroe (who initially believed in the Hagaan Daaz diet), who is now in the best shape of his life and that is no where near the shape the pros are in today.

TennezSport :cool:

lethalfang
08-20-2007, 03:12 PM
^^^
No. Muscle protects ligament. Having more muscle also allows you less effort to generate the same power, i.e. Nadal only needs to operate at 30% of his effort to generate a racquet speed that I need to put up 100% effort to generate.

BounceHitBounceHit
08-20-2007, 03:26 PM
As a group, tennis players are amongst the most fit athletes when assessed by standard measures, especially those that reflect flexibility, short 'burst' speed, and endurance. Borg was a MACHINE. There are numerous other examples, including Vilas, Thomas Muster, Agassi, etc, etc, etc.... ;) CC

OrangeOne
08-20-2007, 03:45 PM
Oh, but he was. I think that he might be what we call "********." :)

He's not the one who couldn't even work out what thread he was posting in....

Even if it isn't a full out sprint, most of them are at least jogging most of the time. Liverpool captain Steven Gerrard regularly covers 12km at least when he plays a full match, same for Manchester Utd and England striker Wayne Rooney.

I wish someone had these court-coverage stats on tennis, I'd have no problem thinking tennis players are covering 5k+ in a 3 setter, and more to the point, this is often in explosive movements, which are very taxing on the body.

Tennis players today are in the best shape of any player in tennis history, thanks to Navratilova and Lendl.

Correct, though i think a chunk of the WTA could learn more from Martina in regards to training and performance. Both absolutely led the way in the 80s in regards to fitness and nutrition for tennis players.


^^^
No. Muscle protects ligament. Having more muscle also allows you less effort to generate the same power, i.e. Nadal only needs to operate at 30% of his effort to generate a racquet speed that I need to put up 100% effort to generate.

Muscle protects ligament? Interesting way of thinking. Anyways - by your logic, why aren't body builders playing tennis? They'd only need to operate at 7% of their effort to generate the same racquet speed. Answer: unnecessary bulk is wasteful to carry around, and also puts unnecessary loading on joints. Don't mistakenly assume that size directly correlates to strength, and don't forget technique is much more relevant to power and spin production than size ever will be.

tennispro11
08-20-2007, 04:19 PM
Thanks Orange. It was called a joke. Don't know if you know what one of those are since you seem to have no humor whatsoever in your posts. But thanks again for pointing out that I posted in the wrong thread. It's not like I said I posted it in the wrong one and appologized for it. Keep up with the good work though. (Pompous A**) :confused: :confused: :confused:

BkK_b0y14
08-20-2007, 04:21 PM
pretty damn good shape considering those who can reach one of feds wicked dropshots

dennis10is
08-20-2007, 04:39 PM
I honestly don't think tennis players are in as good of shape as other athletes like basketball or soccer players, or even some football players. I played HS football and found that sport to be far far more physically demanding than tennis, even if you exclude the hitting aspect of it. Just running through the plays at full speed over and over is exhausting. My legs always cramped up in the evenings after games. In tennis I get a good workout, but its not as intense as football. But let me also say that football can vary depending on position. I played mainly outside linebacker so I had to do pass coverage as well as being able to catch people trying to run around the outside, which would be more demanding than a lineman, who might be able to get away with being grossly overweight.

I've also played some basketball for fun and always get more winded than playing tennis.

Thing thing about tennis is there is alot of rest time and many points where there isn't much running. Even so, I found tennis to be by far one of the most difficult sports simply because it just takes so long to get good at it because there is so much precision involved and so many shots to learn.

How good are you in tennis? The better you are in tennis, the more demanding it becomes. Tennis is club-ish only because the majority of players are not good enough to stress themselves physically. I used to do a drill with my coach, a shopping cart full of tennis balls, he would feed me at the net, and basically had me scramble all over the court, and I had to max out on each ball until I can't move any more. I had to hit a specific type of shot to a target. It was fun but it was painful. Tennis can be leisurely, or it can be as taxing as any physical activities.

With tennis, when you are tired, your muscle is not a pliant or smoothly firing so your touch and timing goes off. If you are serious about tennis, you have to max out your body and see how you play.

lethalfang
08-20-2007, 04:52 PM
Muscle protects ligament? Interesting way of thinking. Anyways - by your logic, why aren't body builders playing tennis? They'd only need to operate at 7% of their effort to generate the same racquet speed. Answer: unnecessary bulk is wasteful to carry around, and also puts unnecessary loading on joints. Don't mistakenly assume that size directly correlates to strength, and don't forget technique is much more relevant to power and spin production than size ever will be.

Yes, muscle protects the joints.
Why aren't body builders playing tennis? That's because they're too heavy. They built up their body mass by ingesting tons of steroids, some of which are shown to damage joints.
How fast do you think Arnold Schwarzenegger can run?
In other words, what they have is unnaturally excessive, totally different from Nadal.

fluffy Beaver
08-20-2007, 04:57 PM
How good are you in tennis? The better you are in tennis, the more demanding it becomes. Tennis is club-ish only because the majority of players are not good enough to stress themselves physically. I used to do a drill with my coach, a shopping cart full of tennis balls, he would feed me at the net, and basically had me scramble all over the court, and I had to max out on each ball until I can't move any more. I had to hit a specific type of shot to a target. It was fun but it was painful. Tennis can be leisurely, or it can be as taxing as any physical activities.

With tennis, when you are tired, your muscle is not a pliant or smoothly firing so your touch and timing goes off. If you are serious about tennis, you have to max out your body and see how you play.

LOL apparently he's only about a 3.5 according to this thread statement

"3.5s in Maryland
I want to experience playing against someone from the message board and am looking to arrange a match with a 3.5 player in Maryland. Any takers?

Ammendment: How about 3.0 or 4.0 players? Come on now."

So ya, a total of him scrambling like crazy as he stated for every ball is like 1 casual rally for a 5.0 ++.

Ano
08-20-2007, 05:19 PM
Fitness can change for each sport but I would be interested is which sport usually requires to have the least body fat.

Gymnastic and sprinting.

saram
08-20-2007, 05:24 PM
I honestly don't think tennis players are in as good of shape as other athletes like basketball or soccer players, or even some football players. I played HS football and found that sport to be far far more physically demanding than tennis, even if you exclude the hitting aspect of it. Just running through the plays at full speed over and over is exhausting. My legs always cramped up in the evenings after games. In tennis I get a good workout, but its not as intense as football. But let me also say that football can vary depending on position. I played mainly outside linebacker so I had to do pass coverage as well as being able to catch people trying to run around the outside, which would be more demanding than a lineman, who might be able to get away with being grossly overweight.

I've also played some basketball for fun and always get more winded than playing tennis.

Thing thing about tennis is there is alot of rest time and many points where there isn't much running. Even so, I found tennis to be by far one of the most difficult sports simply because it just takes so long to get good at it because there is so much precision involved and so many shots to learn.


Clueless. Absolutely clueless...

tennispro11
08-20-2007, 05:27 PM
Clueless. Absolutely clueless...

Yes most of his posts are as well. :confused:

princess bossass
08-20-2007, 05:29 PM
Here you go. Hopefully you like this. ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AhlzQcd_Fd8&mode=related&search=

Our laboratories have completed a trial run through the evidence; it has been determined that the experiment will need to be conducted several thousand times in order to ensure the most accurate result.

Preliminary results indicate that hotness variables may cause some interference with data collection.

OrangeOne
08-20-2007, 05:31 PM
Thanks Orange. It was called a joke. Don't know if you know what one of those are since you seem to have no humor whatsoever in your posts. But thanks again for pointing out that I posted in the wrong thread. It's not like I said I posted it in the wrong one and appologized for it. Keep up with the good work though. (Pompous A**)

You've been around for a month, and if you think I have no humour in my posts, then maybe you haven't read too many of my posts.

Yes, muscle protects the joints.
Why aren't body builders playing tennis? That's because they're too heavy. They built up their body mass by ingesting tons of steroids, some of which are shown to damage joints.
How fast do you think Arnold Schwarzenegger can run?
In other words, what they have is unnaturally excessive, totally different from Nadal.

Muscle protects the joints?.... well, sorta, but it's not like it's the primary role or anything. Muscle activates the joints, it causes them to function. Excessive muscle can actually cause excessive load on joints, so I wouldn't specifically say muscle protects joints, per se.

I'm a trained personal trainer / fitness instructor, I understand why bodybuilders do not excel at tennis. My bodybuilder question was in fact rhetorical, I was using it as an example to extrapolate from the Nadal situation. Personally, I feel Nadal is still carrying too much muscle, and with the ever-continuing run of injuries for someone who's only just past their teens, we're seeing the proof of that.

tbini87
08-20-2007, 05:50 PM
im sure you could go through any sport and find some players that are in great shape and could excel in just about any sport, and in that same sport you can find people that are out of shape and not necessarily physical specimens. some people take training more seriously than others. there are too many players in each sport to compare the sports.

tennispro11
08-20-2007, 05:53 PM
Our laboratories have completed a trial run through the evidence; it has been determined that the experiment will need to be conducted several thousand times in order to ensure the most accurate result.

Preliminary results indicate that hotness variables may cause some interference with data collection.

Glad you liked it! I thought you would. :)

OrangeOne
08-20-2007, 06:27 PM
im sure you could go through any sport and find some players that are in great shape and could excel in just about any sport, and in that same sport you can find people that are out of shape and not necessarily physical specimens. some people take training more seriously than others. there are too many players in each sport to compare the sports.

Not any sport. You won't find any endurance cyclists, triathletes, squash players, marathon runners, track & field runners of any kind, international swimmers, etc etc .... who aren't in fantastic shape when competing. Even the couple of tennis players who carry a tiny bit of gut weight are still phenomenally fit.

lethalfang
08-21-2007, 11:39 AM
Not any sport. You won't find any endurance cyclists, triathletes, squash players, marathon runners, track & field runners of any kind, international swimmers, etc etc .... who aren't in fantastic shape when competing. Even the couple of tennis players who carry a tiny bit of gut weight are still phenomenally fit.

In other words, it's impossible to be lazy and hide your fat in most individual sports where endurance is a key to success.

Mikael
08-21-2007, 12:18 PM
This thread is worthless without a proper definition of fitness. Some people seem to value cardiovascular capacity, others power, others agility, and so on. The majority of posters so far though seems to equate fitness with looks, ie bodyfat and muscles on display... I guess in that case Gambill has to be one of the fittest players in the game...

For what it's worth, I think I read somewhere that Safin can run the mile in way less than 5mns according to his trainer, I was quite impressed. I don't know if all pros can do this, but it's quite an achievement.

OrangeOne
08-21-2007, 02:41 PM
This thread is worthless without a proper definition of fitness. Some people seem to value cardiovascular capacity, others power, others agility, and so on. The majority of posters so far though seems to equate fitness with looks, ie bodyfat and muscles on display... I guess in that case Gambill has to be one of the fittest players in the game...

Fitness is.... the combination of performance in many components. For example, see the 12 items below for a good 'definition' of well-rounded fitness. Tennis players do perform well 'across the spectrum', whereas narrow-focus-sport athletes (say, marathon runners, weight lifters) will tend to excel in a few areas and lag in many others.

Body Composition
Flexibility
Cardio-respiratory Endurance
Muscular Endurance
Muscular Strength
Power
Balance
Coordination
Speed
Reaction Time
Agility
Sport-specific skill

VaBeachTennis
08-21-2007, 03:03 PM
Speaking of rest time, you can say the same for basketball, soccer, or football.
A basketball game lasts about 2 1/2 hours, and the actual playing time for a starter is about 20-35 min.
A football game lasts 3 hours, and the actual game time is only 48 minutes, and on average the defense and offense each play about 20 minutes, plus substitutions.
Soccer players do not run perpetually, either. They use their energy only when there is action nearby.

When I started out playing tennis, I thought it was not a very physically demanding game. That view has changed when I've gotten better. When you have to be in position each time, and take a big loopy swing each time, it becomes a lot more physically demanding than beginners who just push the ball around.


Amen. It depends on the level you play in most sports. Beginner tennis will be a little workout, while the higher levels will be more physically demanding. Tennis is an anarobic and aerobic sport and when you play at higher levels it demands more fitness so your strokes and footwork don't break down.

VaBeachTennis
08-21-2007, 03:12 PM
cardio: long distance runner.
athletic strength: football.
mobility: soccer.
overall balance of body: tennis, boxing; tennis more balance boxing more strength.
Good points...but boxing, Muay Thai (kickboxin) etc, require good balance, one can argue that the higher the weight maybe the less balance they exhibit. Another good sport that can be included in the "overall balance of body" category is Handball, to be really good at handball you have to be fit and somewhat ambidexterous, but like tennis , it's still a sport where you can sometimes get "schooled" by an old guy. ;)

35ft6
08-21-2007, 03:39 PM
I just got back from watching a lot of pros practice... A lot of them weren't wearing shirts, so you can tell who's carrying some fat and who isn't. Most of these guys are totally ripped... they are in SUPER shape.Yeah, at the US Open, I was shocked by how fit these dudes were. They're in the kind of shape where they look normal with clothes on, but suddenly look jacked with their shirts off. Corretja and Coria surprised me, and Tommy Robredo at the time looked like Bruce Lee shirtless. They're in incredible shape.

35ft6
08-21-2007, 03:41 PM
Good points...but boxing, Muay Thai (kickboxin) etc, require good balance, one can argue that the higher the weight maybe the less balance they exhibit. Another good sport that can be included in the "overall balance of body" category is Handball, to be really good at handball you have to be fit and somewhat ambidexterous, but like tennis , it's still a sport where you can sometimes get "schooled" by an old guy. ;) Some guy, and even with his credentials it's subjective, said that he's worked with athletes from all sports -- he was a doctor -- and MMA guys were off the charts in terms of flexibility, fitness, strength, and coordination.

dubsplayer
08-21-2007, 03:53 PM
Pretty damn good.

callitout
08-21-2007, 04:06 PM
Yeah, at the US Open, I was shocked by how fit these dudes were. They're in the kind of shape where they look normal with clothes on, but suddenly look jacked with their shirts off. Corretja and Coria surprised me, and Tommy Robredo at the time looked like Bruce Lee shirtless. They're in incredible shape.

I agree with this comment. Ginepri, who was warming up shirtless at Cincy, is cut like a bodybuilder--espcially his back.
But then you watch him and he muscles the ball a bit and shows much less flexibility than say Davydenko Ferrero.
So Mikael's post above about the vagueness of the term 'fitness' is pertinent. Yeah Ginepri has spent tons of time in the gym, and has a great 6-pack, but how useful is that for tennis. Obviously being flabby wouldnt be better, but being less bulky--even when the bulk is muscle might be.

OrangeOne
08-21-2007, 05:43 PM
Yeah, at the US Open, I was shocked by how fit these dudes were. They're in the kind of shape where they look normal with clothes on, but suddenly look jacked with their shirts off. Corretja and Coria surprised me, and Tommy Robredo at the time looked like Bruce Lee shirtless. They're in incredible shape.

Coria surprised you? He's one I've always seen as phenomenally cut. All you have to do is look at the legs, and see the muscle definition there as a guide. Coria's legs always looked like muscle wrapped in cling wrap.

nswelshman
08-21-2007, 10:53 PM
I got told by a sports trainer at Australias Institute of Sport that the fittest athletes in the world were cross country skiers...and get this, the second fittest athletes.....SURFERS!! (but obviously not by out of water pursuits if ya know the surfing culture hahaha)

sharp*shooter
08-22-2007, 05:02 AM
Some of them are in very good condition, but tennis players arent great athletes in general.

OrangeOne
08-22-2007, 05:49 AM
I got told by a sports trainer at Australias Institute of Sport that the fittest athletes in the world were cross country skiers...and get this, the second fittest athletes.....SURFERS!! (but obviously not by out of water pursuits if ya know the surfing culture hahaha)

well that's specifically aerobic endurance / cardiovascular capacity for the skiers - they are usually even slightly fitter in that regard than cyclists or marathon runners. Surfers would be a whole-of-body thing I suppose, it requires a great balance across all of the elements of fitness (see my earlier post in this thread).

Some of them are in very good condition, but tennis players arent great athletes in general.

I'm sorry, but that's just rubbish. Maybe you haven't been to a tournament and hung out at the practice courts? I'm in australia, and watching a 1 or 2 hour training session in the heat from any of the top 100 guys is just mind-blowing.

Mikael
08-22-2007, 11:56 AM
Fitness is.... the combination of performance in many components. For example, see the 12 items below for a good 'definition' of well-rounded fitness. Tennis players do perform well 'across the spectrum', whereas narrow-focus-sport athletes (say, marathon runners, weight lifters) will tend to excel in a few areas and lag in many others.

Body Composition
Flexibility
Cardio-respiratory Endurance
Muscular Endurance
Muscular Strength
Power
Balance
Coordination
Speed
Reaction Time
Agility
Sport-specific skill


yup, that's a solid definition you got there. Also agree that tennis players are generally good across the spectrum, although some of them are certainly lacking in strength and power, to their disadvantage.

I'm just a little surprised you added body composition, which seems like the odd one out on that list considering it's not a measure of performance per se like all the others. You probably added it as a measure of health more than fitness? In that case, I think it would be a good idea to add something like hormonal profile to that list as well.

VaBeachTennis
08-22-2007, 12:18 PM
Some guy, and even with his credentials it's subjective, said that he's worked with athletes from all sports -- he was a doctor -- and MMA guys were off the charts in terms of flexibility, fitness, strength, and coordination.

No doubt! Many of these guys are fitness fanatics and realize the importance of being in good shape. MMA includes punching, kicking, and grappling so at some points it can be totally anaerobic and also aerobic as well. My hero in MMA is Randy Couture who at 43 is still teaching the young guys lessons!

OrangeOne
08-22-2007, 01:53 PM
yup, that's a solid definition you got there. Also agree that tennis players are generally good across the spectrum, although some of them are certainly lacking in strength and power, to their disadvantage.

I'm just a little surprised you added body composition, which seems like the odd one out on that list considering it's not a measure of performance per se like all the others. You probably added it as a measure of health more than fitness? In that case, I think it would be a good idea to add something like hormonal profile to that list as well.

Well, it's not 'my' list per se, it's borrowed (as are all of the good things in life), but even since I studied some fitness stuff, it's been widely recognised that there are 8-15 'elements / components / measures' of fitness.

Body Composition has been in every list I've seen though. It is absolutely trainable, and it's definitely an element of fitness. And the thing people forget that it is, perhaps surprisingly, partially independent of the other elements (ie. it is very diet dependent, and to some degree, it is possible to maintain various bodyfat levels while maintaining extremes of training in either direction. Someone can be 8% Bfat with minimal training with a specific diet, someone else can be training phenomenal levels and still be 20% plus).

Why is it programmable / and a measure of performance? Endurance cyclists will be told that they need to be sub, say 8% for males (I've plucked that figure from the sky people, I know many cyclists will be lower etc etc), irrespective of all other measures. Fat is heavy to carry uphill. A swimmer may be told to maintain 10-12% for bouyancy purposes (fat floats, if you notice most endurance swimmers they tend to not be 'cut' as much as 'of low bodyfat and quite lean'). A football player may be told to maintain 14%, as a layer of fat can help protect muscles and joints in a violent tackle.

So yeah - body composition is definitely in the list. I've never seen hormonal profile, but i'm open to listening to ideas, given I know little about it! Let me know what you were thinking....

LES
08-22-2007, 02:53 PM
No doubt! Many of these guys are fitness fanatics and realize the importance of being in good shape. MMA includes punching, kicking, and grappling so at some points it can be totally anaerobic and also aerobic as well. My hero in MMA is Randy Couture who at 43 is still teaching the young guys lessons!

No doubt pro MMA guys are fit. But the reason older guys can still do MMA is that the bouts don't require as much endurance as say 12 rounds of boxing or cycling the Tour de France. UFC is 3 or 5 rounds; 5 minutes each. Sometimes you'd have a fighter in multiple fights in the same night, like Crocop in Pride World Grand Prix Final 1999. In MMA you need to have endurance but it's not as crucial as other skills.

I would even say that pro tennis requires more fitness than MMA; seeing as how pro tennis players peak in their 20's and rarely have careers beyond their 30's. I'm not saying tennis player are more fit than MMA'ers. Just that as you age it's harder to stay at the top in pro tennis. In MMA aging doesn't seem to affect one's career as much.

West Coast Ace
08-22-2007, 05:54 PM
I'm sorry, but that's just rubbish. Maybe you haven't been to a tournament and hung out at the practice courts? I'm in australia, and watching a 1 or 2 hour training session in the heat from any of the top 100 guys is just mind-blowing.I believe his point is that many aren't natural athletes - e.g. they couldn't easily play another sport at an elite level (other than some Euros and S Americans who allegedly could have been very good at soccer). In the US, I can hardly think of any pros who were forced to choose tennis over another sport. Sampras said when he was in school he was known as 'the tennis guy.' Not 'the All-American Jock' - like a John Elway. Many tennis players are just products of amazing coaching from a very young age - the coaching (and the money it requires) and repetition (opportunity) gets them to the pros.

Mikael
08-26-2007, 04:51 AM
Well, it's not 'my' list per se, it's borrowed (as are all of the good things in life), but even since I studied some fitness stuff, it's been widely recognised that there are 8-15 'elements / components / measures' of fitness.

Body Composition has been in every list I've seen though. It is absolutely trainable, and it's definitely an element of fitness. And the thing people forget that it is, perhaps surprisingly, partially independent of the other elements (ie. it is very diet dependent, and to some degree, it is possible to maintain various bodyfat levels while maintaining extremes of training in either direction. Someone can be 8% Bfat with minimal training with a specific diet, someone else can be training phenomenal levels and still be 20% plus).

Why is it programmable / and a measure of performance? Endurance cyclists will be told that they need to be sub, say 8% for males (I've plucked that figure from the sky people, I know many cyclists will be lower etc etc), irrespective of all other measures. Fat is heavy to carry uphill. A swimmer may be told to maintain 10-12% for bouyancy purposes (fat floats, if you notice most endurance swimmers they tend to not be 'cut' as much as 'of low bodyfat and quite lean'). A football player may be told to maintain 14%, as a layer of fat can help protect muscles and joints in a violent tackle.

So yeah - body composition is definitely in the list. I've never seen hormonal profile, but i'm open to listening to ideas, given I know little about it! Let me know what you were thinking....

I don't know all that much about it either but in terms of health (and performance) your hormones are essential in that they pretty much regulate everything that goes on in your body... An athlete with very low levels of testosterone for example would have trouble packing on lean body mass and recovering from tough matches. Healthy testosterone levels are key but there are many other hormones to keep track of, like insulin, leptin, cortisol, growth hormone, etc.