Thoughtful piece on Islamaphobia, and Spineless Europeans

[chess9]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=33c_1187358686

Are Europeans spineless? LOL! Some of them think Americans have a spine! Maybe so but how could one find it under all the FAT? :)

-Robert

[origmarm]

I can't get the link, is it just my company firewall?

[chess9]

I can't get the link, is it just my company firewall?

Yes, the link is working. It must be your firewall protecting you from this un-pc-like commentary. :)

I had you in mind when I posted this. One of my friends in England sent it to me. Very good stuff.

-Robert

[origmarm]

Yes, the link is working. It must be your firewall protecting you from this un-pc-like commentary. :)

I had you in mind when I posted this. One of my friends in England sent it to me. Very good stuff.

-Robert

Nice, I'll have to have a look at home. Might not make it tonight, home about 11, playing tennis :)
I'll try and have a look anyhow

[Voltron]

Yes, the link is working. It must be your firewall protecting you from this un-pc-like commentary. :)

I had you in mind when I posted this. One of my friends in England sent it to me. Very good stuff.

-Robert I agree, good stuff. Europe really has to stand up for itself, the part that really got me is that the mayor of Brussels is banning a peaceful demonstration, that's just wrong. Anyway, great post, keep it up. :)

Volt

[stormholloway]

To me, it's almost as if the support of Islamic cultural practices in Europe is meant to incite even more hatred against Islam there.

[chess9]

My view, Storm, is that we need to watch the Muslims very carefully. Europe has enough religious crazies without adding the right wing Muslims to the mix. Give them an inch, they will take 10,000,000 miles.

The Mayor of Brussels, if you don't know it, is a female MUSLIM! What could those people be thinking? Oh, wait, the Muslims darn near OWN the city.

LOL! They'll be requiring Jews and Christians to kneel in prayer facing Mecca, next....

-Robert

[alwaysatnet]

Who was the Swedish politician that said the Swedes should be nice to the Muslims now so when they take over(Sweden, I presume) the Muslims would be more inclined to be nicer to the vanquished Swedes?

You couldn't make up stuff like that. At least the Danes have backbone.

[stormholloway]

My view, Storm, is that we need to watch the Muslims very carefully. Europe has enough religious crazies without adding the right wing Muslims to the mix. Give them an inch, they will take 10,000,000 miles.

The Mayor of Brussels, if you don't know it, is a female MUSLIM! What could those people be thinking? Oh, wait, the Muslims darn near OWN the city.

LOL! They'll be requiring Jews and Christians to kneel in prayer facing Mecca, next....

-Robert

I just think we need to avoid a paranoid and fearful society. Immigration needs to proportion its migrant demographics more effectively.

We certainly don't need governments forcing cultural practices on its people in the name of tolerance. That's odd. And I had no idea that Muslims were so dominant in Brussels. That is odd as well.

I think organized religion of any kind is total crap, but Islam takes the cake.

[357sig]

I read an article in the LA Times last week that in aprox. 30-35 years from now, with current immigration and birth rates that western Europe will be 50 percent Muslim , is this possible? I'm no math wiz.

[357sig]

I read an article in the LA Times last week that in aprox. 30-35 years from now, with current immigration and birth rates that western Europe will be 50 percent Muslim , is this possible? I'm no math wiz.

[stormholloway]

That doesn't sound like fun.

[chess9]

I read an article in the LA Times last week that in aprox. 30-35 years from now, with current immigration and birth rates that western Europe will be 50 percent Muslim , is this possible? I'm no math wiz.

Brussels will be predominantly Muslim at current birth rates in just a few years. Within 10 years we could be dealing with a situation in Europe where 2,000 years of civilization is reversed by the radical Islamists. Kiss democracy goodbye.

Between the aggressive totalitarianism of Bush and the fawning capitulation of the European politicians there is a narrow path into the light of day. Will we find it?

-Robert

[AAAA]

Once there were wars to stop the spread of communism so will Bush now lead American troops into Europe to stop the spread of Islam?

[alwaysatnet]

Where is Charles Martel when you need him?

[chess9]

The English gentleman in the link I posted makes a comment about keeping one's religious views PRIVATE. I could not agree more.

So, tell me, why is this so hard to do? Just keep your mouth SHUT about your bloody religion. That's your business and I am definitely NOT interested.

These religious nuts think they must infect every discussion with religion. Yipers!

-Robert

[stormholloway]

But it's so easy to rag on religious people, so at least you can berate them and make them look stupid.

There was a guy in Union Square the other day who was being a spectacle. He had a news crew filming him as he attempted to "recruit more Muslims". I came up and said that he already had a billion... how many more does he need?

[origmarm]

Finally got round to watching this at home (beyond the reach of my corporate nanny). I agree with a lot of what this chap is saying. I think "The End of Faith" is required reading and discusses this in detail. Personally I find the decision that prompted this video disgraceful. I live in perpetual astonishment at the decisions made in the name of cultural tolerance in the UK and Europe at large. At least the French have the courage to force secular values in their schools and public offfice

[xtremerunnerars]

Jesus, can we put him in office over here? (Pun maybe possibly intended?)

I agree with this guy for sure.

[Venetian]

The English gentleman in the link I posted makes a comment about keeping one's religious views PRIVATE. I could not agree more.

So, tell me, why is this so hard to do? Just keep your mouth SHUT about your bloody religion. That's your business and I am definitely NOT interested.

These religious nuts think they must infect every discussion with religion. Yipers!

-Robert

How about keeping your mouth shut about religion? I'm definitely not interested in your opinions either.

[stormholloway]

This is the Rants & Raves section. If you don't want controversial opinions, click on Tennis Tips/Instruction.

[Phil]

How about keeping your mouth shut about religion? I'm definitely not interested in your opinions either.
Where'd THAT come from? Of course you're only interested in opinions on which you agree, but all the same, who cares? It's anything goes in this section, and religion is discussed/debated quite often. You don't like it? You know where the "door" is.

[origmarm]

How about keeping your mouth shut about religion? I'm definitely not interested in your opinions either.

Let me guess, you are religious?
What a wonderful debate stimulating individual you are. Feel free to add your point of view, thats the point of a forum. Either add something or just leave it alone and don't bother

[Venetian]

Where'd THAT come from? Of course you're only interested in opinions on which you agree, but all the same, who cares? It's anything goes in this section, and religion is discussed/debated quite often. You don't like it? You know where the "door" is.

It comes from him spouting off about the religious and then saying other people should shut their mouths about it. If he doesn't want to listen to other people's opinions on religion, then he shouldn't be stating his.

[origmarm]

On a related note, I just started reading "The End of Faith" and it seems the chap has an axe to grind on a topic similar to this one but regarding religion in general. Have any of you guys read this?
Its all a topic I'm quite interested in at the mo

[chess9]

It comes from him spouting off about the religious and then saying other people should shut their mouths about it. If he doesn't want to listen to other people's opinions on religion, then he shouldn't be stating his.

I didn't give my religious views, only my opinion on those who must infect all of our daily lives with imprecations to God, Allah, Jehovah, or whatever flavor of Godness they prefer.

You have a right to your views, so go right ahead and fire away and tell us why it's ok to preach to the masses. :)

-Robert

[boobik2371]

i like this mans point of view

[Phil]

It comes from him spouting off about the religious and then saying other people should shut their mouths about it. If he doesn't want to listen to other people's opinions on religion, then he shouldn't be stating his.
I think he explained himself in an earlier post...I agree with him...religious people are entitled to follow their faith...only, they should STFU when they're around others who simply don't care. Sorry, you aren't gonna "win" this one.

[Venetian]

I think he explained himself in an earlier post...I agree with him...religious people are entitled to follow their faith...only, they should STFU when they're around others who simply don't care. Sorry, you aren't gonna "win" this one.

He's doing the same thing in my mind.

If he really didn't care, then it shouldn't bother him. If you don't like people voicing their religious views, you can always walk away. They do have the right to speak publicly.

[Phil]

He's doing the same thing in my mind.

If he really didn't care, then it shouldn't bother him. If you don't like people voicing their religious views, you can always walk away. They do have the right to speak publicly.
No, we can't walk away and haven't been able to do so for the last seven years, with the mullahs in our own country trying to subvert the First Amendment, trying to ram their religion down our collective throats and inundate the public schools with their rubbish. As an American, it's not possible to "walk away" from it. Get over it.

[10sfreak]

No, we can't walk away and haven't been able to do so for the last seven years, with the mullahs in our own country trying to subvert the First Amendment, trying to ram their religion down our collective throats and inundate the public schools with their rubbish. As an American, it's not possible to "walk away" from it. Get over it.
LOL! Waaaahh! Phil's pitchin' another hissy-fit! LOL!

[10sfreak]

Finally got round to watching this at home (beyond the reach of my corporate nanny). I agree with a lot of what this chap is saying. I think "The End of Faith" is required reading and discusses this in detail. Personally I find the decision that prompted this video disgraceful. I live in perpetual astonishment at the decisions made in the name of cultural tolerance in the UK and Europe at large. At least the French have the courage to force secular values in their schools and public offfice
Wow, that may actually be the first time I've ever seen the words "french" and "courage" in the same sentence!

[origmarm]

[/b]
Wow, that may actually be the first time I've ever seen the words "french" and "courage" in the same sentence!

:)....I never thought of it that way. Still you have to admit its a bona fide example

[origmarm]

He's doing the same thing in my mind.

If he really didn't care, then it shouldn't bother him. If you don't like people voicing their religious views, you can always walk away. They do have the right to speak publicly.

Ok I think I understand a little more where you are coming from now.

Firstly I would like to make the point that I am not attacking all religious people here. I am explaining why many non religious people have a problem with SOME religious people espousing their views as I see it and it my words. The points below are behaviours that some religious people engage in, NOT ALL. All religions have strict or moderate branches and all have different offshoots (Catholics vs Protestants for example). Please do not take the points below as meaning that I think that YOU do this, if you don't, thats a good thing.

The problem that the non religious have with religious people espousing religious ideas in public and to them tend to be the following imo:

- Free speech is often cited, as is freedom of religion as a defence for preaching. I accept this and wholely support it. If however you choose to exercise your right to free speech against religion you are often on the receiving end of some pretty sharp abuse. I think "shut up" is about the least you can expect. I do however take your point here, you are entitled and should feel free to use your right to freedom of speech. Be aware however that it's like anything else, you can talk about it all you want but don't expect people to like it. If you get asked to stop, thats generally a pretty good response where free speech is concerned.

Free speech is frequently constrained for fear of offending the religious, witness the Danish cartoons for example. This is the only are where constraint of free speech is considered acceptable, short of clear and present danger (i.e. shouting "Fire" in a crowded theater).

The problem many of the non religious have with the voicing of religious views in this context is that they are constrained in voicing their's in the presence of the religious.

- You cannot just "walk away" as you put it. In modern society it is extremely difficult to avoid religion. Many schools force it on children from day one, for example with prayers at morning assembly, or religious education. Some are even advocating the teaching of creationism in schools. Other examples are everywhere in society, until recently you couldn't shop or work on Sunday, the US president frequently cites god in his speeches, Christian pressure groups and lobbyists are omnipresent and vocal....
There is no seperation of society from Religion in anything but name in many countries. If you are in the minority in some countries, your behaviour is severely restricted by it (such as in Iran for example).

- The stated aim of many religions is to propagate. Some individuals see it as their duty to save your soul from torment. I have lost count of the number of times I have opened my door to various religious groups wishing to discuss god with me. It is not the subject that offends me, I believe that the 15th time someone disturbed me in my leisure time to sell me a vacuum cleaner this would offend me also.

I could go on for many pages on this. I'm just going to leave it at the above as really what we are talking about in this particular instance is free speech and why people have a problem with being vocal re your religious views.

Last but not least, why be vocal about it unless you have something that are you aiming to achieve through your religion? Otherwise the relationship should surely be between you are god no?

[chess9]

Yes, the religion NOISE level has been ratcheted UP so much in the last few years I'm starting to feel like they should all go climb in a cave somewhere and just work out their differences. Maybe they could start a group with a Seven Step Program of Withdrawal, or form a new group, like Muslims for Moses, Jews for Jihad, St.Paul for Shiites, er, well, you get the schtick. ;)

How all of this can be good for religious people is beyond me. If I were a truly religious person, I think I'd be appalled at this stridency and hatred.

-Robert

[origmarm]

Yeah sorry I went on a bit of a rant here...its been playing around in my head for a bit. I guess at least its the appropriate part of the forum :)