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Ali Abdullah
08-23-2007, 04:19 AM
I made a video with my cell phone of some casual forehand strokes . I've made quite a few threads on forehand questions so you might wanna check out those threads as well before commenting on my forehand. The video quality is poor and my hitting partner isnt so consistent as well but this is just to give you an idea of my forehand and ill upload a proper video if you find it necessary because uploading a video with Pakistani Internet isnt so easy :D

I would like you to pay particular attention on the laying back of my wrist and follow through.I use a babolat aeropro drive with a semi-western grip and my height is almost 6 i suppose. Hope to see some positive comments on fixing my forehand blues .



Video 1 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amFmje9xadE

smoothtennis
08-23-2007, 10:38 AM
I made a video with my cell phone of some casual forehand strokes . I've made quite a few threads on forehand questions so you might wanna check out those threads as well before commenting on my forehand. The video quality is poor and my hitting partner isnt so consistent as well but this is just to give you an idea of my forehand and ill upload a proper video if you find it necessary because uploading a video with Pakistani Internet isnt so easy :D

I would like you to pay particular attention on the laying back of my wrist and follow through.I use a babolat aeropro drive with a semi-western grip and my height is almost 6 i suppose. Hope to see some positive comments on fixing my forehand blues .

I've uploaded 3 videos. If you just want to see 1 video then just see the first video. The other 2 might give you more things to point out though.

Video 1 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amFmje9xadE

Video 2 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix1xOVrvl-Y

Video 3 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBLQ0-LnMd0


Down to business...

The first thing I will say, is that forehand is not too bad, so good news there.
Second things, the wrist laying back. I'll want to hear what others say, but based on your swing style, which looks pretty modern, I believe you are pre-cocking that wrist way too early. Notice your takeback goes well behind your back, with the wrist supinated back, BEFORE you start your forward swing.

Rick Macci says to not lay it back fully before you initiate your forward swing. Let it lay back as a result of the forward initiation of the stroke, and it will have much more spring as it comes through the contact zone. I am working on this very thing myself. My takeback was just like yours, and now I am feeling a huge difference. Also, your takeback will naturally become more compact if you do this vs. having it way behind your back before you start coming forward.

Good luck!

cj011
08-23-2007, 12:14 PM
Great tip!!! I use to lay it my wrist back when I was taking it back. You are taking away alot of spin off the ball because you are not snapping through your stroke. Let's compare the two:
Let's say you standing upright with your right arm out in front like you are going to shake someone's hand. From there you take you arm back like you would for a forehand. With your stroke you would be leading with your hand going back, elbow in and hand way out there. What you want is your elbow more out and you hand in. That will allow your arm to not be so bent during your swing. There is an ugly nasty trend going on in tennis with the elblow down low and the hand up high at contact with the ball.

habib
08-23-2007, 12:21 PM
Great tip!!! I use to lay it my wrist back when I was taking it back. You are taking away alot of spin off the ball because you are not snapping through your stroke. Let's compare the two:
Let's say you standing upright with your right arm out in front like you are going to shake someone's hand. From there you take you arm back like you would for a forehand. With your stroke you would be leading with your hand going back, elbow in and hand way out there. What you want is your elbow more out and you hand in. That will allow your arm to not be so bent during your swing. There is an ugly nasty trend going on in tennis with the elblow down low and the hand up high at contact with the ball.

The elbow out and the hand in? What? I guess Haas and Gonzalez haven't been doing it right...

cj011
08-23-2007, 01:51 PM
What I meant by the elbow is the that it is so far down that is causes the palm to open up and start facing the sky (if you are not holding a racquet). I do believe that you can have the elbow dropped as long the the palm can either be straight up and down or angled slightly. Also, when did Gonzalez become an example of consistency and placement? He can develope amazing power, but can be picked apart from the baseline.

I may as well say it here, I have a big problem with heavy topsin forehands that focus only lifting low to high and do not drive through the ball. I focus primarily on get the joints lined up in a stroke so that they support themselves or can lock in there strongest position. If the elbow is to far down at contact because of these god forsaken western grips and pulling the hand out first, then there is less support for the arm. Try having somebody push against your arm with you elbow down far enough that your hand begins to open up and pull back versus you elbow down with your palm angled foreward between 70 to 45 degress. You will be suprised at the difference in support. Yes there can be individual examples of personal excellence but they are only individual examples.

Ali Abdullah
08-24-2007, 12:57 AM
Thanks for the replies.
So you guys are basically saying that i shouldnt keep my wrist so laid back at the start of my swing. I should lay it back a little and then leave it relaxed for some laying back at the start of the forward swing which will happen automatically . Ill work on that and let you know.

Any comments on my follow through? Am i driving through the ball?

cj011
08-24-2007, 01:57 AM
Nope your not driving the ball. When you extend back, you want your arm to swing around and out with your hand a constant distance away from your body from tack back to contact. From there it may pull across depending on your stroke

Ali Abdullah
08-24-2007, 03:48 AM
Nope your not driving the ball. When you extend back, you want your arm to swing around and out with your hand a constant distance away from your body from tack back to contact. From there it may pull across depending on your stroke

What do you mean by "out" i get the around part. What am i doing on my forehand which is causing me not to drive ? Is that also due to the laid back wrist?

smoothtennis
08-24-2007, 07:29 AM
Thanks for the replies.
So you guys are basically saying that i shouldnt keep my wrist so laid back at the start of my swing. I should lay it back a little and then leave it relaxed for some laying back at the start of the forward swing which will happen automatically . Ill work on that and let you know.

Any comments on my follow through? Am i driving through the ball?

Yeah, I watched again, just for my own peace of mind, in dolling out advice. Definately don't lay that wrist back so early. That racket head should not go behind your body at any time during your takeback in my opinion. It is quite easy to see if this is happening, by doing shadow swings, and taking a quick vid of yourself.

I gotta tell you, since I have made this very same change I am suggesting to you, which I got from Rick Macci in his forehand video...three huge things have happened instantly - so much so I can't even believe it.

1. My forehand consistency has skyrocketed. I can hit so many in a row now compared to what I used to hit, it is silly!
2. I have so much more spin on the ball now, I am still not believing it is true.
3. I can finally clean-out a slow paced ball, putting pace and spin on it---almost a winner.

The best part by far is this: I am using less effort than ever before to do this.

CJ011 said:

I use to lay it my wrist back when I was taking it back. You are taking away alot of spin off the ball because you are not snapping through your stroke.

I find this to be exactly the case when the wrist is layed back too early. My partner also made this change, and his spin increased very noticably. Although I wouldn't describe it as snapping the wrist throught he stroke. It preloads, laid back on forward intitiation, and stays bent (double bend) up to contact, and then natually rolls over (pronates) after contact. It is not something you force. It is the natural uncoiling of the good preparation and loading.

The one thing I will say...is all this happens so fast it is hard to break it down sometimes.

As far as hitting through the ball, honestly, I don't see a big problem there. It is not great video, but to me, it appears you are driving pretty well through the ball. I know this can be subjective. But I have seen guys 'fanning' the ball, all spin, no pace, and I don't see you doing that.

pushing_wins
08-24-2007, 12:38 PM
cj, smooth,

could u please look at my forehand? i have the same problem. zero drive.


http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=148232

cj,
what do u mean by elbow too far down?

smooth,
where is the rick macci video?

thanks

cj011
08-24-2007, 06:28 PM
guys I have to take pictures this weekend. I have done alot of talking and need to do a better job expalining

cj011
08-24-2007, 06:33 PM
pushing wins, you're a pretty good player. Well first off, you are lazy on your preperation on your forehand. You just sit there and lean back. Alot of those shot you could have been aggresive with your footwork and taken the ball up higher. Almost every ball you let drop to almost by your knee. You will then be trying to constantly lift the ball over the net and get it to drop again. That is why most juniors struggle against better players. While you guys look to lift, that causes the ball to float or sit. Then any player that likes high balls will attach right away and you have to win the match from being defensive.

Can you click a video that the camera angle is facing you from the front. I think I may see something small, but I am not running my big mouth anymore if I am not sure

Ali Abdullah
08-25-2007, 04:42 AM
Yeah, I watched again, just for my own peace of mind, in dolling out advice. Definately don't lay that wrist back so early. That racket head should not go behind your body at any time during your takeback in my opinion. It is quite easy to see if this is happening, by doing shadow swings, and taking a quick vid of yourself.

I gotta tell you, since I have made this very same change I am suggesting to you, which I got from Rick Macci in his forehand video...three huge things have happened instantly - so much so I can't even believe it.

1. My forehand consistency has skyrocketed. I can hit so many in a row now compared to what I used to hit, it is silly!
2. I have so much more spin on the ball now, I am still not believing it is true.
3. I can finally clean-out a slow paced ball, putting pace and spin on it---almost a winner.

The best part by far is this: I am using less effort than ever before to do this.

CJ011 said:


I find this to be exactly the case when the wrist is layed back too early. My partner also made this change, and his spin increased very noticably. Although I wouldn't describe it as snapping the wrist throught he stroke. It preloads, laid back on forward intitiation, and stays bent (double bend) up to contact, and then natually rolls over (pronates) after contact. It is not something you force. It is the natural uncoiling of the good preparation and loading.

The one thing I will say...is all this happens so fast it is hard to break it down sometimes.

As far as hitting through the ball, honestly, I don't see a big problem there. It is not great video, but to me, it appears you are driving pretty well through the ball. I know this can be subjective. But I have seen guys 'fanning' the ball, all spin, no pace, and I don't see you doing that.

Thank God. I really thought i wasnt driving through the ball enough and that caused the lack of pace in my shots in comparison to some really good players. One more thing? Hopefully im not using my arm alot and using my shoulders for my shots? Cause alot of people have told me that im arming the ball when im not playing good..

Ali Abdullah
08-25-2007, 04:46 AM
Thank God. I really thought i wasnt driving through the ball enough and that caused the lack of pace in my shots in comparison to some really good players. One more thing? Hopefully im not using my arm alot and using my shoulders for my shots? Cause alot of people have told me that im arming the ball when im not playing good..

Wait i forgot cj011's post. He said im not driving through the ball. Im confused now. And cj011 could you elaborate on that swing out part as i mentioned in an earlier post?

J011yroger
08-27-2007, 04:00 AM
cj, smooth,

could u please look at my forehand? i have the same problem. zero drive.


http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=148232

cj,
what do u mean by elbow too far down?

smooth,
where is the rick macci video?

thanks


Your swing is OK, you have no drive because you are hitting off your back foot and pulling up off the ball! 80% of your problems are from the waist down. Stay on the ground and get your weight forward into the shot not going back and up.

J

AceofBase
08-27-2007, 04:35 AM
Yes, its like what they all say your wrist. If I were you try the same way how you hit but with a western grip going up and down brushing the ball not left to right. I think that would fix you more with a western grip cause with a western grip you dont move you wrist after the point of contact and plus its will get you starting to loosen up your wrist too.

Ali Abdullah
08-28-2007, 03:45 AM
okay i've changed my swing a bit according to the comments over here. Ill make a video today and upload it tomorrow or day after tomorrow.

J011yroger your reply pushing_wins was almost as if you were commenting on my video because alot of coaches have been telling me this as well.

I would appreciate it if comments on others videos be kept in there own thread.

J011yroger
08-28-2007, 04:12 AM
J011yroger your reply pushing_wins was almost as if you were commenting on my video because alot of coaches have been telling me this as well.

I would appreciate it if comments on others videos be kept in there own thread.

No prob, and sorry on my part.

As far as your own vid/forehand. Something I don't think anyone else has mentioned.

How tight are you holding the racquet?

It looks like you are holding it too tightly and your arm is too stiff.

You should hold the racquet just tightly enough for it to not fall out of your hand.

J

Ali Abdullah
08-29-2007, 02:29 AM
No prob, and sorry on my part.

As far as your own vid/forehand. Something I don't think anyone else has mentioned.

How tight are you holding the racquet?

It looks like you are holding it too tightly and your arm is too stiff.

You should hold the racquet just tightly enough for it to not fall out of your hand.

J

Yes i do have the tendency to grip my racquet too tightly when im trying to either hit a winner or when im not getting a good feel on my forehand. I've heard that you should relax your hand and arm on the backswing but grip it tightly on the forward part. Is that the way to go?


Im still trying to upload my new video with all things takin into consideration. Got some virus issues on the computer.

J011yroger
08-29-2007, 04:00 AM
Yes i do have the tendency to grip my racquet too tightly when im trying to either hit a winner or when im not getting a good feel on my forehand. I've heard that you should relax your hand and arm on the backswing but grip it tightly on the forward part. Is that the way to go?


Im still trying to upload my new video with all things takin into consideration. Got some virus issues on the computer.

Nope, loose and smooth the whole way, otherwise you rob yourself of power and spin.

J

smoothtennis
08-29-2007, 08:06 PM
cj, smooth,

could u please look at my forehand? i have the same problem. zero drive.


http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=148232

cj,
what do u mean by elbow too far down?

smooth,
where is the rick macci video?

thanks

Pushing Wins - Yeah bro, I saw it earlier, forgot to check this thread. Hey, you have a nice looking stroke as others commented, and yes you weight is going up and backwards most of the time. Stay down with the ball, hit forward, and set your feet and 'platform' solid before you strike the ball. Don't gyrate around at contact. Stay down, stay directly on the ball with your intent and stroke right through the thing with your balance well set.

Do not lean back, do not step back, do not come up so much, and your forehand will have real drive and power, not to mention better spin.

smoothtennis
08-29-2007, 08:08 PM
cj, smooth,

could u please look at my forehand? i have the same problem. zero drive.


http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=148232

cj,
what do u mean by elbow too far down?

smooth,
where is the rick macci video?

thanks


Macci Video is a USTPA lesson on the Tennis Channel. It is running this month on and off. This one is the first one I have seen that covers what I like to call the modern forehand. It is excellent.

smoothtennis
08-29-2007, 08:14 PM
Nope, loose and smooth the whole way, otherwise you rob yourself of power and spin.

J


Completely agree here. The more tension you have in the muscles, the less power actually transfers into the ball. Same in martial arts, golf, baseball, etc.

You have to find that happy balance through practice and awareness. I still have a bad tendency myself to hit with tightned wrist and grip on my forehand. Difficult habit to break for sure.

drake
08-29-2007, 08:25 PM
Too much take back, too early on the laid back wrist and loose grip. Excellent replies from all posters.

pushing_wins
08-29-2007, 09:25 PM
Pushing Wins - Yeah bro, I saw it earlier, forgot to check this thread. Hey, you have a nice looking stroke as others commented, and yes you weight is going up and backwards most of the time. Stay down with the ball, hit forward, and set your feet and 'platform' solid before you strike the ball. Don't gyrate around at contact. Stay down, stay directly on the ball with your intent and stroke right through the thing with your balance well set.

Do not lean back, do not step back, do not come up so much, and your forehand will have real drive and power, not to mention better spin.

thanks for the analysis

i agree with everything you said, i do feel more power when i stay down and through the shot.

what about loading and exploding? am i overdoing it? my center of balancing is going in the wrong directions??

Ali Abdullah
08-30-2007, 03:29 AM
thanks for the analysis

i agree with everything you said, i do feel more power when i stay down and through the shot.

what about loading and exploding? am i overdoing it? my center of balancing is going in the wrong directions??

okay dude you r getting on my nerves now.Please keep questions on your video in your own thread.

smoothtennis
08-30-2007, 09:43 AM
okay dude you r getting on my nerves now.Please keep questions on your video in your own thread.


Awww C'mon Ali - we are all one happy family here right...? :mrgreen:

smoothtennis
08-30-2007, 09:45 AM
thanks for the analysis

i agree with everything you said, i do feel more power when i stay down and through the shot.

what about loading and exploding? am i overdoing it? my center of balancing is going in the wrong directions??

Bingo - loading ok, exploding in the wrong direction. Even try not exploding at all, just think 'uncoil into the ball'. Don't make it contrived.

counterfeit25
08-30-2007, 10:15 AM
LOL thread hijacker!

Ali Abdullah
08-31-2007, 12:23 PM
Okay i've uploaded another video. In this video ive tried not to lay back my wrist on the backswing and let it get layed back on the forward itself. It doesnt seem so prominent in the video but i had a totally different feel on my shots so i know i was doing something different. I was not getting a good feel on my shots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8j4AeBd1Xs

Now today while playing i tried to drive thru the ball and my game started clicking. I didnt use a very low to high swing. I was getting much more pace on the ball and i could even control it better and i wasnt mis hitting the ball which has been a big problem of mine. I couldnt make a video of it but ill do that tomorrow.
Do you think im using to much of a low to high swing and not driving thru the ball in this video? and are my shoulders opening to soon? and do i still have that wrist issue?

pushing_wins
08-31-2007, 12:50 PM
Okay i've uploaded another video. In this video ive tried not to lay back my wrist on the backswing and let it get layed back on the forward itself. It doesnt seem so prominent in the video but i had a totally different feel on my shots so i know i was doing something different. I was not getting a good feel on my shots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8j4AeBd1Xs

Now today while playing i tried to drive thru the ball and my game started clicking. I didnt use a very low to high swing. I was getting much more pace on the ball and i could even control it better and i wasnt mis hitting the ball which has been a big problem of mine. I couldnt make a video of it but ill do that tomorrow.
Do you think im using to much of a low to high swing and not driving thru the ball in this video? and are my shoulders opening to soon? and do i still have that wrist issue?


no change at all

still as gay looking as before

VaBeachTennis
08-31-2007, 02:38 PM
Okay i've uploaded another video. In this video ive tried not to lay back my wrist on the backswing and let it get layed back on the forward itself. It doesnt seem so prominent in the video but i had a totally different feel on my shots so i know i was doing something different. I was not getting a good feel on my shots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8j4AeBd1Xs

Now today while playing i tried to drive thru the ball and my game started clicking. I didnt use a very low to high swing. I was getting much more pace on the ball and i could even control it better and i wasnt mis hitting the ball which has been a big problem of mine. I couldnt make a video of it but ill do that tomorrow.
Do you think im using to much of a low to high swing and not driving thru the ball in this video? and are my shoulders opening to soon? and do i still have that wrist issue?

You are looking pretty good there Ali. It seems that you made your stroke a little more compact and efficient. As far as Pushingwins , I think you guys can BOTH learn on the same thread, as you both have some similiarities (from the little bit of video I saw of Pushingwins) in your strokes. Good luck with your game.

VaBeachTennis
08-31-2007, 02:40 PM
no change at all

still as gay looking as before

LOL! Be nice guys! We are here to learn and exchange ideas! No need for a urination contest.

pushing_wins
08-31-2007, 05:23 PM
You are looking pretty good there Ali. It seems that you made your stroke a little more compact and efficient. As far as Pushingwins , I think you guys can BOTH learn on the same thread, as you both have some similiarities (from the little bit of video I saw of Pushingwins) in your strokes. Good luck with your game.


yeah

i also have a gay WTA loop

J011yroger
08-31-2007, 06:03 PM
Okay i've uploaded another video. In this video ive tried not to lay back my wrist on the backswing and let it get layed back on the forward itself. It doesnt seem so prominent in the video but i had a totally different feel on my shots so i know i was doing something different. I was not getting a good feel on my shots.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8j4AeBd1Xs

Now today while playing i tried to drive thru the ball and my game started clicking. I didnt use a very low to high swing. I was getting much more pace on the ball and i could even control it better and i wasnt mis hitting the ball which has been a big problem of mine. I couldnt make a video of it but ill do that tomorrow.
Do you think im using to much of a low to high swing and not driving thru the ball in this video? and are my shoulders opening to soon? and do i still have that wrist issue?

Ali...you up for an experiment?

Get someone with a hopper of balls to feed you.

Hit the ball hard, and cleanly and try to hit the back fence on the fly, in a straight line. No arc, hit the back fence with a straight flat ball.

Don't flail at the ball or swing from your heels, just use a smooth level powerful swing.

After about 20 of them, add enough topspin to bring them down into the court.

It looks as if you are concentrating too much on generating topspin and not enough on driving the ball and hitting it cleanly.

J

Ali Abdullah
09-01-2007, 01:13 AM
Ali...you up for an experiment?

Get someone with a hopper of balls to feed you.

Hit the ball hard, and cleanly and try to hit the back fence on the fly, in a straight line. No arc, hit the back fence with a straight flat ball.

Don't flail at the ball or swing from your heels, just use a smooth level powerful swing.

After about 20 of them, add enough topspin to bring them down into the court.

It looks as if you are concentrating too much on generating topspin and not enough on driving the ball and hitting it cleanly.

J

yes thats what i was afraid ov. Ill try this drill tomorrow morning.

Ali Abdullah
09-01-2007, 01:15 AM
yeah

i also have a gay WTA loop

let me just ignore you ......

J011yroger
09-01-2007, 03:50 AM
yes thats what i was afraid ov. Ill try this drill tomorrow morning.

Sometimes it works for people, and sometimes it doesn't. But it is worth the hour to give it a shot. Because if you keep trying to get more drive in your ball, your mind will keep you tentative about hitting the ball out. But if you start out drilling the back fence on a line, then you have the drive you need.

J

Ali Abdullah
09-03-2007, 01:20 AM
Okay i'd like to post a summary of questions that i would like to ask about my forehands and what i've done to my forehand according to the posts here so far...i use a semi western grip and babolat aero pro drive ..but im playing with wilson K factor in the first and 3rd video for some reasons.

This is my first video that i posted here :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amFmje9xadE

The second video that i posted was after altering my swing to have a less layed back wrist at the start of the swing and lay it back more on the forward part . The video :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8j4AeBd1Xs

Now the Third Video is of me hitting flat balls.Another person is throwing balls at me instead of having a live ball drill in this video .Link is :
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5nIHREjYe4

Now the questions i'd like to ask :
1- The same question. My wrist laying back. I fear that i lay it back to early or i lay it back to much or something. If i dont lay it back early i really dont get any feel on my shots.

2-I mis hit alot of balls in the first video with the whole laid back wrist thing.A little less in the 2nd video and very very less in the 3rd video where im trying to hit flat balls.

3-In the first and second video i fear that i'm using to much of a low to high swing which is reducing alot of pace on the shots and making me not hit thru the ball.

4-Do i open my shoulders too early?

5-My weight is not being transferred in to the ball and instead going left.

6-Am i arming the ball or using my shoulders?

7-Is my backswing and forward swing okay?

8-I play excellent tennis one day and the other day i fail to even connect one ball properly on the forehand.

9-Im not bending so much i think but thats because this is casual hitting.

10- Any other thing that you might think im doing wrong or need working on.

I guess these are all the questions...I hope you guys can take some time out and reply to atleast some of these.

Bungalo Bill
09-03-2007, 09:20 AM
I made a video with my cell phone of some casual forehand strokes . I've made quite a few threads on forehand questions so you might wanna check out those threads as well before commenting on my forehand. The video quality is poor and my hitting partner isnt so consistent as well but this is just to give you an idea of my forehand and ill upload a proper video if you find it necessary because uploading a video with Pakistani Internet isnt so easy :D

I would like you to pay particular attention on the laying back of my wrist and follow through.I use a babolat aeropro drive with a semi-western grip and my height is almost 6 i suppose. Hope to see some positive comments on fixing my forehand blues .

I've uploaded 3 videos. If you just want to see 1 video then just see the first video. The other 2 might give you more things to point out though.

Video 1 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amFmje9xadE

Video 2 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ix1xOVrvl-Y

Video 3 = http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBLQ0-LnMd0

Work on your takeback on the forehand. The racquet face goes well behind your head towards your left side. Keep the racquet head on the same side of the body (right side) on the takeback.

Ali Abdullah
09-03-2007, 11:35 AM
Work on your takeback on the forehand. The racquet face goes well behind your head towards your left side. Keep the racquet head on the same side of the body (right side) on the takeback.

In the second video i posted :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x8j4AeBd1Xs ( maybe you'd like to check it)i tried not to let the racquet face go behind my head towards the left side and i also tried not to lay back the wrist but after seeing the video i can see that it wasnt so effective.It was much better then the videos you quoted but still not good enough.

Do i have to shorten my swing so that racquet face doesnt go behind my head or is it the wrist problem? I dont think its the wrist problem because i saw VAKULENKO play today at the US open and i think she has a cocked wrist at the start of the swing like me and she takes her racket behind her head in the backswing. Im confused.I think del porto also has a similar swing.

Mountain Ghost
09-03-2007, 11:51 AM
Keep your shoulders up and don’t bend over from the waist so much at the beginning of your stroke. The way you start a rally is an exaggeration, but quite indicative of what you are doing on most of your forehands. Look at the very beginning of “Video 1” . . . to start the rally you bend your right shoulder down so it’s leaning way over your right foot, and then you straighten up during the swing. In effect, you are practicing a weight distribution and transfer that is not helping you while you are actually playing.

Don’t start the rally bending over, and as you approach the ball during the point, visualize “leading” with your hips, which should help you to keep them under your shoulders.

MG

Ali Abdullah
09-03-2007, 11:57 AM
Keep your shoulders up and don’t bend over from the waist so much at the beginning of your stroke. The way you start a rally is an exaggeration, but quite indicative of what you are doing on most of your forehands. Look at the very beginning of “Video 1” . . . to start the rally you bend your right shoulder down so it’s leaning way over your right foot, and then you straighten up during the swing. In effect, you are practicing a weight distribution and transfer that is not helping you while you are actually playing.

Don’t start the rally bending over, and as you approach the ball during the point, visualize “leading” with your hips, which should help you to keep them under your shoulders.

MG

Thats a really good point that you've noted. Ill work on that. Do the shoulders have to be kept aligned with the hips and legs even when you are hitting from a closed stance? back should be straight?

Mountain Ghost
09-03-2007, 12:19 PM
The shoulders and the hips will each rotate a different amount during the coiling and uncoiling, so you should not force an “alignment” . . . but they should be rotating on the same (or nearly the same) vertical axis.

MG

Ali Abdullah
09-04-2007, 04:01 AM
Keep your shoulders up and don’t bend over from the waist so much at the beginning of your stroke. The way you start a rally is an exaggeration, but quite indicative of what you are doing on most of your forehands. Look at the very beginning of “Video 1” . . . to start the rally you bend your right shoulder down so it’s leaning way over your right foot, and then you straighten up during the swing. In effect, you are practicing a weight distribution and transfer that is not helping you while you are actually playing.

Don’t start the rally bending over, and as you approach the ball during the point, visualize “leading” with your hips, which should help you to keep them under your shoulders.

MG

one more thing..I dont understand how to lead with my hips.As in turn my hips first then shoulders and arm goes with the shoulder?

Mountain Ghost
09-04-2007, 09:00 AM
I’m not talking about when to turn (or rotate) ANY component there, but how to “feel” keeping your hips forward and under your shoulders, so you won’t be bending over at the waist.

I could have said visualize your rear end not sticking out in back. “Leading” with the hips is the same thing.

MG

Ali Abdullah
09-05-2007, 03:06 AM
okay thats it..i quit...ive tried almost everything you guys told me but sadly none of them really made any difference...thanks for the input though..i think my problem lies in my take back of the swing but then i see players like del porta and vakulenko who have similar forehand styles as me(atleast i think so) and it works for them.
Im just gonna start being a pusher now.Put the ball in play and play with a very lose grip . I dont think i was meant for hard core hitting....even though when i do start hitting well..i hit big...
Though if anyone still finds a point that he thinks may help me alot..I would still want to hear that.

Bungalo Bill
09-05-2007, 08:23 AM
okay thats it..i quit...ive tried almost everything you guys told me but sadly none of them really made any difference...thanks for the input though..i think my problem lies in my take back of the swing but then i see players like del porta and vakulenko who have similar forehand styles as me(atleast i think so) and it works for them.
Im just gonna start being a pusher now.Put the ball in play and play with a very lose grip . I dont think i was meant for hard core hitting....even though when i do start hitting well..i hit big...
Though if anyone still finds a point that he thinks may help me alot..I would still want to hear that.

Ali,

You really only need to work on your takeback for now. It will take you some time to incorporate a good backswing that will work on all court surfaces to help you grow further in tennis.

Developing an improved backswing will take time, patience, and practice on all of your shots and needs to be automatic to the point where you feel comfortable with it.

You are at a level with your forehand where you need precise coaching because your forehand is in an advanced stage. It does not need major changes. It does need minor tweaking. But the tweaking will not happen over night as your forehand is well engrained. So a minor tweak will take a lot of practice and a lot of patience for you to become automatic with it.

Additionally, improving your court movement, speed, deep ball recognition, short ball recognition, conditioning, tactics to open the court, patience to work the point, will need to be developed by a good coach that works with you directly which is the main over emcompassing area you should be concentrating on.

Here is a way to help you get an idea of where your racquet needs to be on your backswing:

1. Stand perpendicular to the net. The plane of your body should be facing the right side fence.

2. With your toes lined up,imagine a straight line going from the net, touching both toes, and then to the back fence.

3. When you take the racquet back, the head of the racquet should not cross that line behind you. That is the reference point for your takeback. If the racquet head crosses that line behind you, you are risking inconsistency.

With this shortened backswing you will need to use your body and legs slightly more in the shot. Your balance will improve but it will take time to "get it down" so you don't have to think about it and get it to feel "normal".

pushing_wins
09-05-2007, 08:36 AM
3. When you take the racquet back, the head of the racquet should not cross that line behind you. That is the reference point for your takeback. If the racquet head crosses that line behind you, you are risking inconsistency.



bb

why "inconsistency" when u cross the line?

pushing_wins
09-05-2007, 08:43 AM
okay thats it..i quit...ive tried almost everything you guys told me but sadly none of them really made any difference...thanks for the input though..i think my problem lies in my take back of the swing but then i see players like del porta and vakulenko who have similar forehand styles as me(atleast i think so) and it works for them.
Im just gonna start being a pusher now.Put the ball in play and play with a very lose grip . I dont think i was meant for hard core hitting....even though when i do start hitting well..i hit big...
Though if anyone still finds a point that he thinks may help me alot..I would still want to hear that.

dude

you are a hog but dont give up

do u feel like you have to open up the racquet when u hit the ball?

thats how i feel, thats why my wrist flops open right away


you have to get that idea out of your head

it starts with the mental picture of how u contact the ball, thats what shapes your backswing

racquet is closed until it comes forward

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paMqn38Phro&mode=related&search=

Bungalo Bill
09-05-2007, 08:58 AM
bb

why "inconsistency" when u cross the line?

The farther the racquet moves out of your peripheral vision the more difficult it is for your brain to keep a mental picture of where the racquet head is in relation to contact.

Additionally, the further the racquet goes back you reduce your chances to time the ball on a consistent basis. It becomes a bit more difficult (not impossible) to time a ball that takes a bad hop or a bounce you didn't expect. You also reduce your chances to make clean contact.

Since tennis is a game of errors, you want to develop a swing that will help you reduce the chance of error. There are a few extremely talented individuals that can time the ball over and over again while making clean contact with a large backswing.

The line is used as a reference point. It is not an absolute. If I was coaching Ali, and I fed him balls and could clearly see the racquet head on the other side of his body behind his head, I would definetly take note of it as I did above.

smoothtennis
09-05-2007, 09:21 AM
Ali,

I watched all the videos again in order. I have to really agree with Bill's statement, and the one I made earlier. I know you are trying...but that racket is still layed back behind you before you initiate your swing. ie, if you froze the frame before you move forward with your stroke, you could lean your head back, and rest it on the back of your racket face...

Here is what I am talking about you trying. It is very different feeling yes. What it feels like can be really odd at first, but it is worth a try. Forget everything else this guy is doing...just look at his racket head right before he swings forward. It stays on the right side of his body, it does not go behind him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GG-poUQ9brY&mode=related&search=

Yes, definately, you can find some pro's who lay it all the way behind them, but that requires much much better timing.

To make the type of takeback work that I am talking about, and demonstrated in this youtube vid...you have to really allow that wrist to relax and lay back during the initial forward movement. It then natually snaps back into position through the contact zone. Don't try to hit it hard, try to 'FEEL' the forearm stretching and releasing the stored energy during the stroke.

Don't give up, you have too good a stroke to give up now. As I told you earlier, I have been doing this on my forehand with remarkable results this past month, and I have been playing for 10 years, always trying to improve. I don't believe in leveling out, and becoming a pusher.

Keep trying bro, you will get results.

Ali Abdullah
09-05-2007, 09:48 AM
Okay i'll work on this from tomorrow onward. Lets see what happens. Thanks for the input BB and smoothtennis.

smoothtennis
09-05-2007, 10:29 AM
double post....oops...

smoothtennis
09-05-2007, 10:47 AM
Ali, some feedback to give you some encouragement. I don't know if you ever play up a level or two, but I do. I can hit up with the 4.5 boys, and this new modification improved my timing (less complex, less motion, less to go wrong) a LOT on guys that hit with a lot of pace and especially those with very heavy spin.

So if you are playing with park hacks only, you won't see that aspect of stroke improvement as dramatically. With 3.5 guys, the difference is my forehand now has more pace and authority off slow balls.

Good luck!

pushing_wins
09-05-2007, 11:19 AM
The farther the racquet moves out of your peripheral vision the more difficult it is for your brain to keep a mental picture of where the racquet head is in relation to contact.

Additionally, the further the racquet goes back you reduce your chances to time the ball on a consistent basis. It becomes a bit more difficult (not impossible) to time a ball that takes a bad hop or a bounce you didn't expect. You also reduce your chances to make clean contact.

Since tennis is a game of errors, you want to develop a swing that will help you reduce the chance of error. There are a few extremely talented individuals that can time the ball over and over again while making clean contact with a large backswing.

The line is used as a reference point. It is not an absolute. If I was coaching Ali, and I fed him balls and could clearly see the racquet head on the other side of his body behind his head, I would definetly take note of it as I did above.


all that is true

but the main problem is you lose all the leverage from the load once your racquet goes behind you.

that is the difference between wta ant atp. the difference in efficiency.

Bungalo Bill
09-05-2007, 01:34 PM
all that is true

but the main problem is you lose all the leverage from the load once your racquet goes behind you.

that is the difference between wta ant atp. the difference in efficiency.

So why would you ever ask a question if you already know your answer? Are you fishing for something? Do you have an alternative motive?

The racquet going back farther does not always translate into a loss in your source power. Many players are extremely flexible and can load over the back leg and still have a large backswing.

If you want to provide an answer to the above posters concerns why don't you just come out with it? For a person who has no clue how to put information together for a forehand you come across like an idiot.

pushing_wins
09-05-2007, 08:34 PM
So why would you ever ask a question if you already know your answer? Are you fishing for something? Do you have an alternative motive?

The racquet going back farther does not always translate into a loss in your source power. Many players are extremely flexible and can load over the back leg and still have a large backswing.

If you want to provide an answer to the above posters concerns why don't you just come out with it? For a person who has no clue how to put information together for a forehand you come across like an idiot.

so u are saying the main drawback is inconsistency

Bungalo Bill
09-05-2007, 10:30 PM
so u are saying the main drawback is inconsistency

You wouldn't think inconsistency is a major drawback?

One of the main contributors to hitting with power is hitting cleanly. Hitting cleanly requires good racquet head control and a swing that can be duplicated ball after ball.

Having a large backswing reduces your chances of being able to control the racquet head and having a consistent swing path into the ball to make clean contact ball after ball.

pushing_wins
09-05-2007, 10:44 PM
You wouldn't think inconsistency is a major drawback?

One of the main contributors to hitting with power is hitting cleanly. Hitting cleanly requires good racquet head control and a swing that can be duplicated ball after ball.

Having a large backswing reduces your chances of being able to control the racquet head and having a consistent swing path into the ball to make clean contact ball after ball.

consistency aside

a bigger backswing doesnt translate into more power

Bungalo Bill
09-06-2007, 08:31 AM
consistency aside

a bigger backswing doesnt translate into more power

Actually it can, so you can not be definitive with your opinion. It depends on how the player maintains their balance, makes clean contact with the ball, and their ability to take advantage of the greater distance between the racquet head and the contact point.

Ali Abdullah
09-06-2007, 10:35 AM
Great news. I hit some forehands today keeping in mind what you all said xpecially BB and i slowly started getting a feel on my forehand. Then i hit some forehand drills and played a set. It all started working. I still have alot of problem in hitting high balls, trying to finish mid-court balls and hitting crosscourt.I usually break my wrist on these balls. Low balls and optimum height balls are no problem usually. But atleast im getting a good feel. Ill keep hitting this way for a week or so and then make another video to show you guys the difference in my swing.

smoothtennis
09-06-2007, 11:59 AM
Good job Ali! Stay with it.

Ali Abdullah
04-21-2008, 11:42 AM
Well after a long time ive recorded another video.This time from the side. I noticed that i was taking my racquet behind my head(thanks 2 all u guys who told me about this problem) etc because I was not leading my backswing with my elbow.Instead i was just pulling my arm back with the forearm going up or something. Ive made a new video.Please check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tkg3EzkOgA8

I just watched the video again. I think the problem here is that I am not taking my hand over my shoulder during the takeback. Which i suppose is important?

And yes my forehand still isnt working :(

Ali Abdullah
04-22-2008, 11:01 AM
im not supposed 2 make a new thread about this right?

smoothtennis
04-22-2008, 11:29 AM
Ali - looks like you put in a lot of work on this. Great job. You are not breaking the wrist back early like you were before. Before, you could lay your head backwards, and rest it flat on your stringbed. I like the racket takeback better from what I can see here compared to previous.

Do you notice any difference in spin production this way vs. before? Do you notice better timing on fast balls coming your way - able to time them better now?

Ali Abdullah
04-22-2008, 01:01 PM
Ali - looks like you put in a lot of work on this. Great job. You are not breaking the wrist back early like you were before. Before, you could lay your head backwards, and rest it flat on your stringbed. I like the racket takeback better from what I can see here compared to previous.

Do you notice any difference in spin production this way vs. before? Do you notice better timing on fast balls coming your way - able to time them better now?

I can get better timing on fast balls and im not framing the ball as much as i was before but spin has reduced ....still im not getting that feel...im a feel player

shindemac
04-22-2008, 01:46 PM
Ali, your footwork needs improvement. I see you hitting on the run, and moving backwards while hitting. Your feet needs to be set so you can have a good base in which to create power. It doesn't look like you are generating much power from your body. People have mentioned your shoulder rotation, but you need to use your legs too. During takeback, your knees should be bent and they should straighten out at contact. If you pause the vid, lots of time your legs are still bent. Also, I think the open stance is causing you to open up your body too early robbing you of power. Your choice of stance may be personal preference, but there should be lots of time to still set up with a neutral or closed stance.

Nellie
04-22-2008, 02:06 PM
I humbly disagree with the above comment - I like your footwork. I see good weight shift from right to left. I also like that you keep your weight low.

I would only suggest that when you are going backwards, you stop and still shift weight at contact.

Bungalo Bill
04-22-2008, 04:28 PM
Well after a long time ive recorded another video.This time from the side. I noticed that i was taking my racquet behind my head(thanks 2 all u guys who told me about this problem) etc because I was not leading my backswing with my elbow.Instead i was just pulling my arm back with the forearm going up or something. Ive made a new video.Please check it out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tkg3EzkOgA8

I just watched the video again. I think the problem here is that I am not taking my hand over my shoulder during the takeback. Which i suppose is important?

And yes my forehand still isnt working :(

Hi Ali,

Glad your still posting. Good job on the takeback, it looks like you are okay with it and got used to it.

A few things you need to work on now:

1. Your swing path is a bit inconsistent. You want to make sure you go through the ball as much as possible and do it consistently. Some of the swing paths were smooth and extended, while others were abrupt and shortened. You don't need to overswing trying to "whip" the racquet around or do something with the ball. When add movement into the equation this could throw your stroke off.

2. Always work on your shoulders rotation and allow the front shoulder to get under that chin. The back shoulder comes under the chin on the followthrough. This is an easy way to know you got good rotation in the shoulders as you coil.

3. Non-dominant arm needs to keep your swing moving toward contact longer. You are taking the hand away too soon IMO which causes you to open too soon. This expecially happens on those whippy shots. When you are ready to go through the ball, bring the non-dominant arm into your body allowing the hitting arm to slingshot through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5l6NiQ1Upg&feature=related

Build virtually the same swing path for your forehand. Later we can add subtle things like thw windshield wiper or the reverse forehand. However, your rally stroke needs to be consistent and duplicatable. Once you get this, then you build your consistency and placement (moving the ball around).

Ali Abdullah
04-23-2008, 02:31 AM
Hi Ali,

Glad your still posting. Good job on the takeback, it looks like you are okay with it and got used to it.

A few things you need to work on now:

1. Your swing path is a bit inconsistent. You want to make sure you go through the ball as much as possible and do it consistently. Some of the swing paths were smooth and extended, while others were abrupt and shortened. You don't need to overswing trying to "whip" the racquet around or do something with the ball. When add movement into the equation this could throw your stroke off.

2. Always work on your shoulders rotation and allow the front shoulder to get under that chin. The back shoulder comes under the chin on the followthrough. This is an easy way to know you got good rotation in the shoulders as you coil.

3. Non-dominant arm needs to keep your swing moving toward contact longer. You are taking the hand away too soon IMO which causes you to open too soon. This expecially happens on those whippy shots. When you are ready to go through the ball, bring the non-dominant arm into your body allowing the hitting arm to slingshot through.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L5l6NiQ1Upg&feature=related

Build virtually the same swing path for your forehand. Later we can add subtle things like thw windshield wiper or the reverse forehand. However, your rally stroke needs to be consistent and duplicatable. Once you get this, then you build your consistency and placement (moving the ball around).

Thank you for your input. I agree with the fact that my swing path is very inconsistent. But for points 2 and 3. I saw my video again keeping these points in view and I think my front shoulder does come under my chin at the start and back shoulder under my chin at the end of the follow through.Als my non-dominant arm is bent and along the left side of m body like blakes video. Maybe I didnt get what you are trying to say. Or could you tell me the time in my video where it shows that I am doing these 2 things incorrectly

Ali Abdullah
04-27-2008, 01:34 PM
I humbly disagree with the above comment - I like your footwork. I see good weight shift from right to left. I also like that you keep your weight low.

I would only suggest that when you are going backwards, you stop and still shift weight at contact.

Yes,Ive also noticed that i dont shift weight when im going backwards

Ali Abdullah
04-29-2008, 10:27 AM
Ali, your footwork needs improvement. I see you hitting on the run, and moving backwards while hitting. Your feet needs to be set so you can have a good base in which to create power. It doesn't look like you are generating much power from your body. People have mentioned your shoulder rotation, but you need to use your legs too. During takeback, your knees should be bent and they should straighten out at contact. If you pause the vid, lots of time your legs are still bent. Also, I think the open stance is causing you to open up your body too early robbing you of power. Your choice of stance may be personal preference, but there should be lots of time to still set up with a neutral or closed stance.

Yes, I have noted that I dont straighten my legs at times. Specially when im forced out wide.Thanks for the advice