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kevint
08-31-2007, 07:54 AM
I hit mostly flat w/ my easter FH. Therefore, I always have trouble putting the high, short ball away with my FH, it would always go long. Is it possible to hit topspin w/ eastern FH? Or I have to switch to SW grip or something to generate spin.

mucat
08-31-2007, 09:07 AM
1. hit more in front (hit earlier) and less to your side
2. wiper motion

kevint
08-31-2007, 09:45 AM
1. hit more in front (hit earlier) and less to your side
2. wiper motion
what do you mean "less to your side"?

Thiseas
08-31-2007, 09:48 AM
1. hit more in front (hit earlier) and less to your side
2. wiper motion

Hitting the ball more out in front would make things even worse. It would make it more difficult to close the racquet face which is what you have to do in order to impart some spin and put away a short high ball.

The natural contact point for an eastern fh is not as far in front as with a sw or full w grip.

If your fh sail long you probably hit the ball with the racquet face a bit too open.

First thing you have to do, is identify the proper contact point for you. I say “for you” because it depends on your technique.

If you hit you fh with your arm bend at the elbow then the contact point would probably not be so far in front. If you hit with a straight arm then you can hit more out in front, because with a straight arm you can rotate (pronate) the whole arm from the shoulder which will permit you to close the racquet face.

Try this: Make a slow shadow swing and observe the racquet face while it passes from the contact zone. It should be slightly closed. If it isn’t you should try to find “your” solution. You can either move the contact point a little further behind, or a bit more away from you in order to straighten the arm a bit more. Once you find what’s right for you, accelerate gradually the swing. You should not feel uncomfortable or cramped. Then you can try this for real with easy balls.

mucat
08-31-2007, 10:06 AM
what do you mean "less to your side"?

The classical textbook EFH strokes would require you to hit the ball beside you. However, hitting high ball too close to the body would open up the racket face. That's why you need to hit in front more.

Hitting the ball more out in front would make things even worse. It would make it more difficult to close the racquet face which is what you have to do in order to impart some spin and put away a short high ball.


Try it, hold the racket in EFH grip, stick the arm out in front, point the racket slightly upward (since we are talking about high ball), the racket face is actually slightly close (pointing towards the ground).


The natural contact point for an eastern fh is not as far in front as with a sw or full w grip.


Only if you are hitting the ball with classical strokes.
Try this, hold the racket in SW grip, pretend you are swinging at a high ball, stop at contact point. Now use the off-hand to hold the racket and stop the racket from moving. Then turn the hitting-hand to the EFH grip. Now, you have the contact point of hitting high ball with EFH grip

ipodtennispro
08-31-2007, 10:08 AM
I hit mostly flat w/ my easter FH. Therefore, I always have trouble putting the high, short ball away with my FH, it would always go long. Is it possible to hit topspin w/ eastern FH? Or I have to switch to SW grip or something to generate spin.

It is possble however, you will HAVE to move the heel of your hand over to bevel #4. I do not use a true semi-western even though I can demonstrate it to students. I am content now to ride my knuckle (index finger) around the lower part of bevel #3 (eastern grip) and I can hit relatively good topspin when needed. And, as earlier posted - try to sweep across the ball with more of a windshield wiper motion.

Hope this helps.

Thiseas
08-31-2007, 11:47 AM
Only if you are hitting the ball with classical strokes.
Try this, hold the racket in SW grip, pretend you are swinging at a high ball, stop at contact point. Now use the off-hand to hold the racket and stop the racket from moving. Then turn the hitting-hand to the EFH grip. Now, you have the contact point of hitting high ball with EFH grip

If you have the same contact point with two different grips that means that either your shoulder your elbow or your wrist would have to compensate for that change.

“Then turn the hitting-hand to the EFH grip” Usually the change you are suggesting will force the wrist to open up unless you hit with a straight arm like Federer in which case you can pronate from the shoulder.
This is more comfortable than trying to close the racquet face with the elbow bend which blockes the shoulder and forces to pronate with the forearm.

We shouldn’t get very technical here. Without knowing the person or at least without seeing a video of his fh we should not give a specific advice which is why I proposed that he finds for himself what feels best.

By the way, a grip change should be the last resort.

mucat
08-31-2007, 12:43 PM
If you have the same contact point with two different grips that means that either your shoulder your elbow or your wrist would have to compensate for that change.


It is the wrist mostly, personally anyway.


“Then turn the hitting-hand to the EFH grip” Usually the change you are suggesting will force the wrist to open up unless you hit with a straight arm like Federer in which case you can pronate from the shoulder.
This is more comfortable than trying to close the racquet face with the elbow bend which blockes the shoulder and forces to pronate with the forearm.


Try it first. The racket face will be closed. The arm will be more straight than the classical strokes because it is hitting more out in front.


We shouldn’t get very technical here. Without knowing the person or at least without seeing a video of his fh we should not give a specific advice which is why I proposed that he finds for himself what feels best.

By the way, a grip change should be the last resort.

For other grips I do not know. Eastern grip, topspin and high ball, I have lots of experience with it. I hit with eastern grip all my life, from the classical strokes to wiper motion, low balls to high balls, flat to topspin...the only thing I want for my EFH right now is to hit slice well . My EFH changes as the game change. Nowaday, I can and very often hit topspin on ball higher than head height. And everyone I hit with comment on my overdone topspin.

troytennisbum
08-31-2007, 02:45 PM
I hit mostly flat w/ my easter FH. Therefore, I always have trouble putting the high, short ball away with my FH, it would always go long. Is it possible to hit topspin w/ eastern FH? Or I have to switch to SW grip or something to generate spin.

Yes, you are correct.

The eastern FH is more suited for relatively flatter shots that are either at or below waist height.

For additional topspin or for higher bouncing balls, you are better off with a SW or W grip. In fact, this is the very reason why the vast majority of the pros use a SW or W grip. They use these grips to generate more topspin and to handle higher bouncing balls.

EOM

rfprse
08-31-2007, 03:33 PM
I hit mostly flat w/ my easter FH. Therefore, I always have trouble putting the high, short ball away with my FH, it would always go long. Is it possible to hit topspin w/ eastern FH? Or I have to switch to SW grip or something to generate spin.

It's not the grip. Using eastern shouldn't be an excuse for not hitting a topspin. You can hit one even with a continental grip, for that matter.

I guess you simply catch the ball late on those high balls, which makes the ball sailing on you. It happens a lot for many. Don't blame on the grip but work on timing and mechanics.

LuckyR
08-31-2007, 03:44 PM
It's not the grip. Using eastern shouldn't be an excuse for not hitting a topspin. You can hit one even with a continental grip, for that matter.

I guess you simply catch the ball late on those high balls, which makes the ball sailing on you. It happens a lot for many. Don't blame on the grip but work on timing and mechanics.

While the above is true, I have found it very helpful when dealing with pesky 20 somethings (with SW and Western grips) to develop a SW FH specifically for either extremely high topspinning FHs from the baseline or the shot that the OP described.

It is possible (especially near the net for putaways) to forego it and use extreme topspinning motion with the Eastern grip, but I figured, heck I already have developed the SW shot for the baseline shots, why not take the easy way out and use it for putaways?

rfprse
08-31-2007, 05:46 PM
While the above is true, I have found it very helpful when dealing with pesky 20 somethings (with SW and Western grips) to develop a SW FH specifically for either extremely high topspinning FHs from the baseline or the shot that the OP described.

It is possible (especially near the net for putaways) to forego it and use extreme topspinning motion with the Eastern grip, but I figured, heck I already have developed the SW shot for the baseline shots, why not take the easy way out and use it for putaways?

It's good to know that you found a good solution for you to deal with the extreme loopers.

However, about the case of the OP, it seems more of a timing issue for dealing with the floating short balls. I doubt simply changing/focusing on the grip would solve his/her problems (either hitting the ball long or lack of spin generation, which seems more about general timing and stroke mechanics).

Vision84
08-31-2007, 08:34 PM
To get more topspin just change your racket path so you start your foreward swing from further below the ball to get more brush on it. To much though and the ball will land to short so find a comfortable balance. Rotating your wrist over the ball so you have a lower follow through can help you get extra brush to. Just experiment with it till you find a comfortable balance.

NLBwell
08-31-2007, 09:04 PM
If the ball is truly high and short, you should be able to hit down on it and put it away with a flat shot. Topspin will give your opponent more time to get to the shot (a problem Roddick has). Topspin will give you more margin for error, so you have to decide which shot is appropriate for the situation.
Even if the ball is high, for topsin you have to hit with the racket following a low-to-high motion on the racket. You don't need to change your grip to hit
topspin, but a more semi-western grip would make things easier. I would advise trying to get the hang of it without changing grips first. You might then experiment a bit to see if the SW grip helps. You have to get to a Continental grip to volley effectively, so hitting that shot with a SW will make the grip change more difficult if you don't put the ball away.

kevint
09-02-2007, 05:54 AM
If the ball is truly high and short, you should be able to hit down on it and put it away with a flat shot. Topspin will give your opponent more time to get to the shot (a problem Roddick has). Topspin will give you more margin for error, so you have to decide which shot is appropriate for the situation.
Even if the ball is high, for topsin you have to hit with the racket following a low-to-high motion on the racket. You don't need to change your grip to hit
topspin, but a more semi-western grip would make things easier. I would advise trying to get the hang of it without changing grips first. You might then experiment a bit to see if the SW grip helps. You have to get to a Continental grip to volley effectively, so hitting that shot with a SW will make the grip change more difficult if you don't put the ball away.

I can comfortably put away truly high and short ball with the flat stroke, but for the ball at net-height, that is when I have trouble. I guess I will try practicing the brushing up, windshield- wiper shot, too old/late to learn a new grip :(

Thanks for all the advices, guys!

LuckyR
09-02-2007, 10:08 AM
I can comfortably put away truly high and short ball with the flat stroke, but for the ball at net-height, that is when I have trouble. I guess I will try practicing the brushing up, windshield- wiper shot, too old/late to learn a new grip :(

Thanks for all the advices, guys!

Never say never. I learned the SW at age 44.

wihamilton
09-02-2007, 11:05 AM
kev, you don't need to learn a new grip -- you can generate plenty of topspin w/an eastern. i use a modified eastern and can hit with a ton of topspin if i want. a better example is federer... he uses a modified eastern as well (heel pad on 3rd bevel, index knuckle in between 3rd and 4th bevel, e.g. on the edge) and gets pretty decent spin on the ball :)

windshield wiper motion will get you plenty of spin... or you could really brush up on the ball and finish up high, ala sampras.

good luck. 100% you can get plenty of topspin w/an eastern, don't change your grip just to deal w/short balls.

ipodtennispro
09-03-2007, 04:48 PM
Never say never. I learned the SW at age 44.

I agree. I am 49 and hit with more topspin now than when I was in my 30's.
My old game plan was to charge the net all the time because I learned to hit everything on the rise and I love to volley at net. Then all these modern game players came along with the SW grip. I kept getting passed. I have to stay on the baseline more now and wait.

If people want to make a change they can --- grips, motions whatever it takes. That's why for me personally
it is nice not being brainwashed by any coach.
Everybody needs to be there own coach, learning problem solving skills -- not being so dependent on a coach. But ultimately in the end it will come down to a belief. People second guessing themsevles -- is it my grip? My stance? My service motion? You can see it on these boards.