PDA

View Full Version : is he pusing or pulling


pushing_wins
08-31-2007, 08:32 AM
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w90/dtam61/Untitled.jpg

i say he is pushing his right side through


if he is pullling , the racquet will slap along the equator of the ball

AceofBase
08-31-2007, 10:35 AM
He's pushing!

Zets147
08-31-2007, 10:37 AM
looks like a pull to me

Adam
08-31-2007, 10:43 AM
Whats the difference between a push and a pull?

pushing_wins
08-31-2007, 11:57 AM
Whats the difference between a push and a pull?

pulling with your left side

or

pushing out you right side

what is the sensation

purespin
08-31-2007, 12:06 PM
Or which is better?

VaBeachTennis
08-31-2007, 12:44 PM
http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w90/dtam61/Untitled.jpg

i say he is pushing his right side through

It's hard to say from that picture because he's almost at the point of contact, where in my opinion it is not distinguishable as to whether he is pushing or pulling. If I had to guess I'd say he's pulling.

burosky
08-31-2007, 01:07 PM
Just by looking at a picture, how can one tell definitely if the stroke is a push or pull?

pushing_wins
08-31-2007, 06:58 PM
Just by looking at a picture, how can one tell definitely if the stroke is a push or pull?

at that point, is he pushing or pulling?

topgun78956
08-31-2007, 07:01 PM
id say pulling, but i dont think there is anyone who can answer that accurately other than him him, its a sensation, he feels it not us

pushing_wins
08-31-2007, 07:14 PM
id say pulling, but i dont think there is anyone who can answer that accurately other than him him, its a sensation, he feels it not us

if he was pullling , the racquet will slap along the equator of the ball

lolsmash
08-31-2007, 09:23 PM
Why does it matter so much?

By the way, I prefer the definition of pushing and pulling with the one used by Clint Stephenson in the video Tennis Guru. He mentions that pushing = not using the body whereas pulling = using the body.

topgun78956
09-01-2007, 05:18 AM
meh w/e, hes doing what works for him

Bungalo Bill
09-01-2007, 08:19 AM
Why does it matter so much?

By the way, I prefer the definition of pushing and pulling with the one used by Clint Stephenson in the video Tennis Guru. He mentions that pushing = not using the body whereas pulling = using the body.

Although this can be difficult to conceptualize by some people, in essence I do understand what he is saying.

CLARIFYING THE PULL
The pulling of the racquet is not a constant feeling of pulling as we would think. It is simply the start of something. Rotation of the body will also play a role in bringing and accelerating the racquet forward through contact.

The pull of the racquet is very slight and I mean very slight. The racquet simply does not weigh that much to feel a constant pull through the air. In other words, it is not heavier than the resistance and other factors it faces as it goes forward.

So the pull of the racquet is almost more of a concept than a reality. It simply gets a person to think of accelerating the racquet forward by "tugging" on the handle first BEFORE rotation takes over. The pulling concept and the start of body rotation is very slight and is nearly connected together with the bodies rotation into the ball. That is all it is.

CLARIFYING THE PUSH
Once the racquet is moving forward the "pull" disapates as it gives way to momentum and rotation. The arm is "going along" with the ride. As the racquet passes a certain point of the body, it turns into more of a push through contact and extending out so that followthrough can take place.

In other words, the push keeps the racquet accelerating using the momentum that was created. It is also very slight and largely is unfelt or unnoticed. So the push is also more of a concept then an actual feeling.

So the picture above? It is hard to tell because the muscle involvment is so slight and rotation has already captured the stroke that it coud very well be either.

pushing_wins
09-01-2007, 08:22 AM
Although this can be difficult to conceptualize by some people, in essence I do understand what he is saying.

CLARYFING THE PUSH
The pulling of the racquet is not a contant feeling of pulling as we would think. It is simply the start of something. Rotation of the body will also play a role in bringng and accelerating the racquet forward - it is a natural movement as the brain brings the racquet face to contact through the use of kinetic energy and source energy.

The pull of the racquet is very slight and I mean very slight. The racquet simply does not weigh that much to feel a constant pull through the air. In other words, it is not heavier than the resistance and other factors it faces as it goes forward.

So the pull of the racquet is almost more of a concept than a reality. It simply gets a person to think of accelerating the racquet forward by "tugging" on the handle first BEFORE rotation takes over. It is very slight and is nearly connected with the bodies rotation into the ball. That is all it is.

CLARIFYING THE PUSH
Once the racquet is moving forward the "pull" disapates as it gives way to momentum and rotation. The arm is "going along" with the ride. As the racquet passes a certain point of the body, it turns into more of a push through contact and extending out so that followthrough can take place.

In other words, the push keeps the racquet accelerating using the momentum that was created. It is also very slight and largely is unfelt or unnoticed.

So the picture above? It is hard to tell because the muscle involvment is so slight and rotation has already captured the stroke that it coud very well be either.

thank you

thank you

finally, something to work with


thanks bb

WildVolley
09-01-2007, 08:34 AM
Good post Bungalo Bill. There's a lot of talk about pushing and pulling, but I really never understood the difference. In reality, it is more of a subjective concept with some slight differences in how a forehand is started and to what extent the body rotates. Almost all the professional men are using strokes which incorporate using pulling and pushing muscles and motions.

Bungalo Bill
09-01-2007, 08:50 AM
Good post Bungalo Bill. There's a lot of talk about pushing and pulling, but I really never understood the difference. In reality, it is more of a subjective concept with some slight differences in how a forehand is started and to what extent the body rotates. Almost all the professional men are using strokes which incorporate using pulling and pushing muscles and motions.

Yes, it is more of the very initial start of the stroke and that is it. Everything else becomes rotation and momentum. In all the years I have played tennis, I have never really felt a "constant" pull through the strike zone. The rotation/momentum is a much stronger feeling.

You can also use it as a concept to learn how the hand goes through the ball. But then again, it is a very slight feeling and leans more in the realm of concept rather then reality.

Yes, the pulling and pushing motion of the arm/hand is over shadowed by the rotation of the body and the momentum it creates with the racquet. So, if you are to feel anything, it should be in your stomach muscles more than anything. The upper body should be relaxed and go along with the ride from the initial and slight torque the stomach muscles create.

Finally, the other key concept to learn about the "pull" side of things is that the hand moves forward BEFORE shoulder rotation starts. However, this can be difficult to see and can only really be seen in slow motion. What this does is allows the hand to come forward and get the racquet in front of the body plane before impact. In essence, the hand is very slightly leading the rotation and momentum which at some point allows the stroke to turn into a "push" as the racquet and hand get in front of the body plane.

It is hard to pull once the racquet is in front!

pushing_wins
09-01-2007, 07:01 PM
Yes, it is more of the very initial start of the stroke and that is it. Everything else becomes rotation and momentum. In all the years I have played tennis, I have never really felt a "constant" pull through the strike zone. The rotation/momentum is a much stronger feeling.

You can also use it as a concept to learn how the hand goes through the ball. But then again, it is a very slight feeling and leans more in the realm of concept rather then reality.

Yes, the pulling and pushing motion of the arm/hand is over shadowed by the rotation of the body and the momentum it creates with the racquet. So, if you are to feel anything, it should be in your stomach muscles more than anything. The upper body should be relaxed and go along with the ride from the initial and slight torque the stomach muscles create.

Finally, the other key concept to learn about the "pull" side of things is that the hand moves forward BEFORE shoulder rotation starts. However, this can be difficult to see and can only really be seen in slow motion. What this does is allows the hand to come forward and get the racquet in front of the body plane before impact. In essence, the hand is very slightly leading the rotation and momentum which at some point allows the stroke to turn into a "push" as the racquet and hand get in front of the body plane.

It is hard to pull once the racquet is in front!

you intiatie with the pull

the left side brakes

the hand/elbow come forward

the right side pushes through for extension

the rest is automatic

how is that BB?

the key concept you mention about hand ahead of the shoulder. that is the reason why your backswing should never go behind you. when your racquet goes behind you, all the power/leverage from the coil is loss. you see this is a lot of WTA forehands.

pushing_wins
07-08-2009, 09:07 AM
ho

what do u think?

mordecai
07-08-2009, 04:36 PM
My shots don't feel like a push or pull. They're a coiling and uncoiling, balanced over my center of gravity. Both sides of my body contribute equally. So I'm not sure if pros always have either sensation.

user92626
07-08-2009, 04:45 PM
So, what stroke does Fed have?




What stroke is that you layback your wrist comfortably, whip hard thru the ball employing your arm and upperbody?

Dreamer
07-10-2009, 07:40 AM
I don't see why it would matter if he's pushing or pulling.

NamRanger
07-10-2009, 07:51 AM
I don't see why it would matter if he's pushing or pulling.


*cough* this is what I said.

Bungalo Bill
07-10-2009, 01:59 PM
You shouldnt be focused on pushing and pulling in the stroke!!! For goodness sakes!!! Momentum plays a key roll in how your arm moves through the contact point!!!

WildVolley
07-10-2009, 02:14 PM
Pushing and Pulling are used here as names for differences in technique. Hitting any forehand is going to require the physical act of both pulling and pushing the racket depending on where it is in the stroke.

I think the people who have created this taxonomy (which I really don't understand), claim that Federer uses a "pull" stroke, and that most professional men use a "pull" stroke too.

Djokovicfan4life
07-10-2009, 02:24 PM
So which is it guys: push or pull?



The suspense is killing me.

Bungalo Bill
07-10-2009, 02:39 PM
So which is it guys: push or pull?



The suspense is killing me.

The motion of a forehand goes through both. However, it is something that is a sub component to your angular momentum, it is not the main show.

The main thing is when you bring the racquet forward, the inital pull of the racquet (which is hardly felt) will be overwhelmed by your shoulder rotation. The arm will be gliding with the shoulder rotation until your shoulder rotation slows down and reaches its destination. Then the pushing motion enters for a fraction of a second as it goes through the ball before relaxation overwhelms the stroke and you followthrough.

We need to quit worrying about this!!

Djokovicfan4life
07-10-2009, 04:01 PM
The motion of a forehand goes through both. However, it is something that is a sub component to your angular momentum, it is not the main show.

The main thing is when you bring the racquet forward, the inital pull of the racquet (which is hardly felt) will be overwhelmed by your shoulder rotation. The arm will be gliding with the shoulder rotation until your shoulder rotation slows down and reaches its destination. Then the pushing motion enters for a fraction of a second as it goes through the ball before relaxation overwhelms the stroke and you followthrough.

We need to quit worrying about this!!

Yeah, I was being sarcastic anyway.

Generally I enjoy discussions on technique as much as the next guy, but even I don't give a crap about this one.

pushing_wins
07-10-2009, 06:14 PM
Yeah, I was being sarcastic anyway.

Generally I enjoy discussions on technique as much as the next guy, but even I don't give a crap about this one.

have you posted a video?

better yet , tournament results

the suspense is killing me

but i am willing wager some significant amount of money, you will never be good. by my reasonable definition of good.

honestly, dont you feel like a baffoon, you keep talkin ang talking, nothing to back it up

pushing_wins
07-10-2009, 06:15 PM
The motion of a forehand goes through both. However, it is something that is a sub component to your angular momentum, it is not the main show.

The main thing is when you bring the racquet forward, the inital pull of the racquet (which is hardly felt) will be overwhelmed by your shoulder rotation. The arm will be gliding with the shoulder rotation until your shoulder rotation slows down and reaches its destination. Then the pushing motion enters for a fraction of a second as it goes through the ball before relaxation overwhelms the stroke and you followthrough.

We need to quit worrying about this!!


how do you stop the pulling?

pushing_wins
07-10-2009, 06:26 PM
You shouldnt be focused on pushing and pulling in the stroke!!! For goodness sakes!!! Momentum plays a key roll in how your arm moves through the contact point!!!


when i load and push off the legs, i end up spinning around.

how do u brake the left side? so the racquet and hand comes forward?

NamRanger
07-10-2009, 06:49 PM
have you posted a video?

better yet , tournament results

the suspense is killing me

but i am willing wager some significant amount of money, you will never be good. by my reasonable definition of good.

honestly, dont you feel like a baffoon, you keep talkin ang talking, nothing to back it up


Hi Ho. Can't wait to see what you come up with next.

Bungalo Bill
07-13-2009, 11:28 AM
when i load and push off the legs, i end up spinning around.

how do u brake the left side? so the racquet and hand comes forward?

LOl, you are kidding right? I mean come on!! How do you brake? hahahaha

I thought you knew more than all of us - including Yandell. Why don't you explain it to all of us. Or you can do some research if you really don't know and learn something.