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AR15
09-12-2007, 12:26 PM
http://www.earthtimes.org/articles/show/news_press_release,176495.shtml

A new analysis of peer-reviewed literature reveals that more than 500 scientists have published evidence refuting at least one element of current man-made global warming scares.

Liberal media cover up?
Despite being published in such journals such as Science, Nature and Geophysical Review Letters, these scientists have gotten little media attention.

More than 300 of the scientists found evidence that 1) a natural moderate 1,500-year climate cycle has produced more than a dozen global warmings similar to ours since the last Ice Age and/or that 2) our Modern Warming is linked strongly to variations in the sun's irradiance. "This data and the list of scientists make a mockery of recent claims that a scientific consensus blames humans as the primary cause of global temperature increases since 1850

WBF
09-12-2007, 12:35 PM
Regardless of whether it's man made or not, reducing emissions, polution, and our footprint on the earth will benefit both the earth, and us.

In regards to your quote:

(1) Whether global warmings have occured in the past is irrelevent. The question at hand is whether this one is man-made, and whether it is significantly different than former warmings.
(2) This has been refuted several times. http://arstechnica.com/journals/science.ars/2007/07/11/modern-warming-sun-down-temps-up . You can say there is a possibility, but "linked strongly" is very misleading.

See you soon stormholloway ;)

10sfreak
09-12-2007, 08:10 PM
No, global warming is NOT being caused by man; it's something that's been happening for thousands of years, having occured countless times, WITHOUT any help from mankind. Also, how are we warming up Mars and Venus? Is mankind, especially of course, we Americans and the rest of the West, responsible for the warming trend on other planets as well?

35ft6
09-12-2007, 09:11 PM
^ Has the ozone layer disappeared thousands of times?

AR15
09-13-2007, 08:25 AM
^ Has the ozone layer disappeared thousands of times?


Do tell.

Maybe scientist recorded it in the Quoran somewhere.;)

AlexP
09-13-2007, 08:52 AM
I think the cycle theory is correct, it's a sinusoidal effect and we are close to the peak, before returning to normal levels. What the period of it is, no idea. But either way if it's global warming or a cycle we are not prepared at all for the effects, and it could have a devastating outcome both ways.

Automatix
09-13-2007, 10:35 AM
Is global warming a cycle event normal for Earth? YES!
But human activity enhances it beyond normal... and because of the CO2, CH4 etc. etc. loads we can make it only worse... besides we are just unprepared for anything that global warming will bring us... ohhh and besides global warming isn't a proper term because we are not experiencing higher temperatures but really different weather conditions and that's the most scary part because in the future we can face either really high temps or really low ones, extremely humid, rainy conditions or droughts beyond our imagination... my point is that Global Climate Change would be more appropriate tha Global Warming.

Anyone who says that human activity is irrelevant to this is mistaken...

P.S.: I'm a student of Environment Protection... my future job will be developing clean energy sources (by this I mean more effective ways of using sunlight etc. etc. not many people are aware that wind enegry isn't as clean as thought of...) or creating new ways of dealing with pollution ;)

35ft6
09-13-2007, 05:18 PM
Is global warming a cycle event normal for Earth? YES!
But human activity enhances it beyond normal... and because of the CO2, CH4 etc. etc. loads we can make it only worse... besides we are just unprepared for anything that global warming will bring us... ohhh and besides global warming isn't a proper term because we are not experiencing higher temperatures but really different weather conditions and that's the most scary part because in the future we can face either really high temps or really low ones, extremely humid, rainy conditions or droughts beyond our imagination... my point is that Global Climate Change would be more appropriate tha Global Warming.

Anyone who says that human activity is irrelevant to this is mistaken...

P.S.: I'm a student of Environment Protection... my future job will be developing clean energy sources (by this I mean more effective ways of using sunlight etc. etc. not many people are aware that wind enegry isn't as clean as thought of...) or creating new ways of dealing with pollution ;) What I find interesting is that people who poo-poo "global warming" will cite the earth's natural cycle, one which spans thousands of years, as the REAL reason for why we're seeing the climatic events that scientists predicted would come along with GW. And why do we even know about this cycle in the first place? Because of the research done by the same scientists that are aligned with the IPCC. So these scientists are complete buffoons when it comes to diagnosing the earth's changes of the past 100 years, but they're really good and trustworthy when it comes to what they have to say about how the earth was 100,000 years ago. It's really interesting how these idiot scientists are only right when it comes to the stuff that's being spread by energy concerns and their political proxies to create some public doubt on the validity of global warming. Otherwise, they're complete morons. But ask yourself, what do these scientists have to gain by saying that man-made global warming is 95% likely? On the other hand, what would oil companies gain by making people believe that we don't have to curb our energy consumption or at the very least, the research is still pending?

Docalex007
09-13-2007, 05:59 PM
I'm studying Meteorology at Europe's finest Climate/Weather Research University so I think I should add something to this thread. The main European weather centre (ECMWF) is right down the road. I'm there on and off throughout the year.

Let me make something clear. It is extremely difficult, and I stress again, extremely difficult to pinpoint the exact causes of the current warming trend. And yes, there is warming going on. Nobody would debate this (yet some anti-global warming "scientists" do, I've seen programmes, it's absurd).

True climate scientists acknowledge that sophisticated computer simulation models show that the amount of CO2 we are pumping into the atmosphere is enough to cause warming. CO2 is a greenhouse gas...fact. Nobody debates this! CO2 concentration per unit volume in random air samples has gone up significantly (ie most likely non-natural reasons). These things are fact. The only problem facing climate scientists, is finding out exactly what effect this has on Earth's energy budget. The Globe can only be warming if there's a higher net energy imbalance than before and it's finding out where this imbalance is coming from that is so difficult.

It's far more difficult than one can imagine. The atmosphere is highly complex and "chaos theory" is seen at its best within it. Everything from swirling eddies to every changing jet streams (that are NEVER EVER in the exact same location again). These things all affect climate in one way or another. All atmospheric principles are related and interconnected, allowing many influences from all directions, therefore very difficult for us humans to make all the connections.

Verdict: We still don't know but it's VERY likely that we are influencing it. In fact, it's almost certain. Even if it's only 10-20% of what natural variablility is doing to our planet at the moment (sun output/cyles, etc). It's still very likely that anthropogenic emissions DO influence it...but how and how much??


Hope this was insightful to some. :)

Docalex007
09-13-2007, 06:10 PM
Oh and btw, even though I strongly believe anthropogenic emissions are impacting climate in some way, I strongly disagree with how the media portrays it.

You have got to be kidding me? I don't know how many times I've seen Global Warming and Doomsday in the same heading. :( It's a typical media tragedy. It captures attention and sells.

simi
09-13-2007, 09:35 PM
I teach meteorology at a local college on a part-time basis and work in earth resource research as a NASA center as my full-time employment, so I feel that I can offer an informed opinion...

1.) Global warming is happening.

2.) It is a characteristic of the earth's natural climatic cycle, caused by various natural phenomena, both terrestrial and non-terrestrial.

3.) Anthropogenic activities are contributing to the warming.

3.) The issue has become politicized to the point where it is extremely difficult to conduct unbiased research on the topic.

lethalfang
09-13-2007, 10:02 PM
Oh and btw, even though I strongly believe anthropogenic emissions are impacting climate in some way, I strongly disagree with how the media portrays it.

You have got to be kidding me? I don't know how many times I've seen Global Warming and Doomsday in the same heading. :( It's a typical media tragedy. It captures attention and sells.

This is called sensationalism.
We built a particle accelerator, and the media goes, "oh my god, are they going to create a black hole and destroy the solar system?"
We cloned a sheep, and the media goes, "oh my god, are they going to create half man half sheep?"
We predicted some disaster from Global Warming, and the media goes, "oh my god, when is The Day After Tomorrow going to happen?"

AceofBase
09-14-2007, 06:01 AM
Let just say that human are making this planet really bad for the future. More Co2 and other gases that we make just going to hurt us and the atmosphere. What we want most out of our life will and can change this planet, cause there's alway a good and a bad. Think of something else like trash, human ****, forest, soil, and etc... where will all of this end up at, its just going to recycle itself over and over again and what im trying to say is that its just normal for human, but it is human fault for making it worst. Next thing we will do is probably sent trash out to outer space or having our source of energy out in outer space.

Docalex007
09-14-2007, 06:55 AM
Let just say that human are making this planet really bad for the future. More Co2 and other gases that we make just going to hurt us and the atmosphere. What we want most out of our life will and can change this planet, cause there's alway a good and a bad. Think of something else like trash, human ****, forest, soil, and etc... where will all of this end up at, its just going to recycle itself over and over again and what im trying to say is that its just normal for human, but it is human fault for making it worst. Next thing we will do is probably sent trash out to outer space or having our source of energy out in outer space.

No offense, but is English your native language? And are you old enough to be on a computer without parental supervision?

Just commenting because I noticed you live in NC, where I grew up. :)

35ft6
09-14-2007, 05:16 PM
Doca and Simi, thanks for posting.

10sfreak
09-14-2007, 05:56 PM
What I find interesting is that people who poo-poo "global warming" will cite the earth's natural cycle, one which spans thousands of years, as the REAL reason for why we're seeing the climatic events that scientists predicted would come along with GW. And why do we even know about this cycle in the first place? Because of the research done by the same scientists that are aligned with the IPCC. So these scientists are complete buffoons when it comes to diagnosing the earth's changes of the past 100 years, but they're really good and trustworthy when it comes to what they have to say about how the earth was 100,000 years ago. It's really interesting how these idiot scientists are only right when it comes to the stuff that's being spread by energy concerns and their political proxies to create some public doubt on the validity of global warming. Otherwise, they're complete morons. But ask yourself, what do these scientists have to gain by saying that man-made global warming is 95% likely? On the other hand, what would oil companies gain by making people believe that we don't have to curb our energy consumption or at the very least, the research is still pending?
This one's easy...it's NOT that those scientists are bufoons when they blame man for GW, it's their leftist tendencies that is to blame. Leftists want control - total control. That means controlling what we can/cannot do, and more importantly, how much of our money we'll have to pay the government in order to combat GW.
You leftys STILL have never answered the question of HOW manking is/was responsible for the GW that has taken place countless times over the past millions of years. Nor have any of you accounted for the GW on Mars, Venus, etc.

lethalfang
09-14-2007, 07:07 PM
You leftys STILL have never answered the question of HOW manking is/was responsible for the GW that has taken place countless times over the past millions of years. Nor have any of you accounted for the GW on Mars, Venus, etc.

You don't seem to understand global warming AT ALL.
Normal cycle of global climate change is associated with cycles of changing earth's orbit. That's what causes cycles of warming and cooling for the past millions of years. Same thing happens with other plants of the solar system.
The difference, is the extend of THIS particular warming period, where the greenhouse gas, e.g. carbon dioxide, is off the charts, and the extend of warming is also off the charts in historical context.
It's not just warming that's caused by humans, but the extent of warming.

Phil
09-14-2007, 07:11 PM
This is called sensationalism.
We built a particle accelerator, and the media goes, "oh my god, are they going to create a black hole and destroy the solar system?"
We cloned a sheep, and the media goes, "oh my god, are they going to create half man half sheep?"
We predicted some disaster from Global Warming, and the media goes, "oh my god, when is The Day After Tomorrow going to happen?"
And those questions need to be asked, so those creating these inventions are accountable to the public. Once we stop asking questions, even if they involve worst case scenarios, then we're screwed. The powers that be will walk all over us...or at least, more than they do now.

lethalfang
09-14-2007, 07:44 PM
And those questions need to be asked, so those creating these inventions are accountable to the public. Once we stop asking questions, even if they involve worst case scenarios, then we're screwed. The powers that be will walk all over us...or at least, more than they do now.

It's not that worst case scenario shouldn't be considered, but it's the way media makes worst case scenario seem as if they are inevitable and unpreventable, so much so that it scares people into thinking research should be stopped.

35ft6
09-14-2007, 07:53 PM
This one's easy...it's NOT that those scientists are bufoons when they blame man for GW, it's their leftist tendencies that is to blame. Cite some instances of the scientific falsifying results in order to further their leftist agenda.Leftists want control - total control. That means controlling what we can/cannot do, and more importantly, how much of our money we'll have to pay the government in order to combat GW.What does the scientific community gain by accomplishing this?You leftys STILL have never answered the question of HOW manking is/was responsible for the GW that has taken place countless times over the past millions of years. Nor have any of you accounted for the GW on Mars, Venus, etc.Sorry if the OP wasn't clear about this... we're talking about man's contribution to global warming on earth.

Craig Carter
09-15-2007, 08:48 AM
This one's easy...it's NOT that those scientists are bufoons when they blame man for GW, it's their leftist tendencies that is to blame. Leftists want control - total control. That means controlling what we can/cannot do, and more importantly, how much of our money we'll have to pay the government in order to combat GW.
You leftys STILL have never answered the question of HOW manking is/was responsible for the GW that has taken place countless times over the past millions of years. Nor have any of you accounted for the GW on Mars, Venus, etc.

Oh my. A special little someone needs some schoolin':(