PDA

View Full Version : God Bless America...


@wright
11-03-2004, 07:32 AM
I just read that Kerry conceded the election to Bush in what, to me, was a very honorable move by Kerry, choosing not to stir the ghosts of 2000. I still don't like Kerry too much, but I respect him much more for this decision, it showed that he is selflessly thinking of the country and how it should not be this divided any longer. This election was very hard and bitterly fought, Kerry/Edwards proved to be a very worthly opponent for the President and VP. Again, I think Kerry really deserves our respect for bowing out gracefully and saving face. Hopefully we'll all have a prosperous few years!

Rickson
11-03-2004, 07:37 AM
Kerry was fighting an uphill battle because unbelievably, Bush had the popular vote this time. Kerry did the right thing by killing the ghosts of 2000. We really need to get rid of that electoral college, these delays would never happen if we went strictly by the popular vote.

Brettolius
11-03-2004, 07:47 AM
yeah!!! prosperous, just like the last 4 years!!!uh... actually not really the most prosperous. this sux. its scary to see the idiocy of this entire country laid bare

RacquetDoctor
11-03-2004, 08:36 AM
Get rid of the electoral college? Are you nuts?

This country is a republic. Our founding fathers intended for the states to elect the president, not the people. We already have *******ized the constitution by allowing direct election of Senators...

Originally, the congress was elected by the people, the senate was appointed by the Congress to represent the states, the presedent was elected by the states electors(apportioned by population) which could be chosen anyway the state saw fit...

leog
11-03-2004, 08:48 AM
...hmmm, now where'd that application for Canadian residency go...

Rickson
11-03-2004, 08:57 AM
Get rid of the electoral college? Are you nuts?

I must be nuts for wanting what other countries around the world enjoy, electing a leader by popular vote.

Sacco
11-03-2004, 09:40 AM
Add a run-off system to that popular vote.

The Patriot Act currently '*******izes' the Constitution in a very true sense, and the actions of most in the Congress defile it daily-- the 'founding fathers' would be ashamed of many greater things way before they even got to the popular vote issue.

As for Kerry doing the right thing, here is my response. To concede before all the votes are counted, even if only for process, is cowardly and wrong. For Bush to accept before the same, is also wrong.

I worked for 3 days in a non-paid, non-partisan (501c3) effort in Youngstown, Ohio to insure to protection of the election for Republicans, Democrats, and all parties.

My polling place was the Youngstown Youth Academy. The people and their desire to vote and participate was the only thing that went right. Three electronic voting machines, one that broke down many times, created a over 3 hour wait at times. And average of 25 votes cast per hour, if one was not purged from rolls altogether and told to go away (not having the provisional ballots at ALL until two hours into the election) The polls didn't shut down until 11pm, closing time was 7:30.

The following was reported by at least 15 people exiting from voting at different times. The machines defaulted to Bush if no vote was cast for President and often changed the vote for President to Bush also if cast for any other. And the technology made one back page all the way to the beginning to change it. Technology at time slowest and most corrupt. Add to that Ohio law that only allows a voter at the polls for "5 minutes" if there is a line (from 6 AM on here), even if the voting went smoothly, it averaged 10 minutes.

Many more were purged from the rolls who lived and voted here their whole life, having to vote "provisionally" after standing in line to vote form 1 to31/2 hours. Now only to have those votes NOT counted even for due process, if you believe that, by *****wipe loser Kerry and "committed to count every vote" liar working-class hero (in the John Lennon sense) Edwards!!!!

In past elections at this same polling place... 4-6 voting machines were present, in this election only 3 (2 working the whole time, the 1 broke completely before the night was out), even though EVERYONE knew from NEW registered voters alone, that this was going to be the largest turn-out ever. Explain how in any sense that was fair and honest?

Only two poll workers the whole day also, many polls monitors but we could only help to a very limited degree by law.

Take all that and add to it (no paper trail or accountability in the law or system), we don't know what ACTUALLY recorded in the machine. Was the right vote even cast? Moreover, the number of actual votes cast seemed about half the people who went in.

There was so much more to. So horrible. I refuse to bless this unjust Republic for these unjust actions. And so many think it's reasonable to just NOT count the votes, that what the media saying is reasonable. Let it go. Voters standing in line 31/2 hours to not even be counted. And what about the ones that couldn't get off work long enough to vote, allotted "2 hours" no more. IF you think that is right under any circumstance, you are a fascist; (forget democracy) join the supreme court.

Ben42
11-03-2004, 12:11 PM
I still don't like Kerry too much, but I respect him much more for this decision, it showed that he is selflessly thinking of the country and how it should not be this divided any longer.


Exactly what Bush supporters said 4 years ago when Gore was forced to concede. And what did Bush and Co. do? They immediately began "healing" the divisions in this country by running the most right wing administration of our lifetimes.

Now 4 years later we are just as divided (if not more) and another Democratic candidate has graciously conceded. Let's see what Bush how bush reacts this time.

Anyone wanna bet he goes further right?


Sacco - I'm sickened and disheartened by what you are reporting. I bet there will be many more stories like yours in the coming weeks and they will be ignored in the main-stream media.

Funny how the exit polls were pretty accurate in states that didn't use Diebold machines. But it's the polls that are being questioned.

Gatsby007
11-03-2004, 12:15 PM
Leog,
You are a prime example of whay the Democratic party is really going down the tubes. I speak for everyone when I say " Don't let the door hit you on the way out".

This was a clear and decisive victory for Bush, who will now control the house and senate as well. Obviously none of you wanted Kerry to win (he was a pathetic candidate) you just wanted Bush out. I suggest you fall in line and support the Commander and Chief.

Suggestions for the Democrat party for 2008:
Expect for a few whack jobs in California and New York, America does not like this vile left wing style of politics.
America does not like Michael Moore, Al Franken, NAACP.
America also doesn't want celebrities with 3rd grade educations advising them on how to vote. The majority of America is also not Pro-Abortion, Pro-Gay Marriage Etc.
If the Dems. EVER plan to win another election (which will have to be in 2016, because of the guliani/mccain ticket) They will need to distance themselves from these crazy extremist and bring the party back to the days of JFK/Harry Truman. The main issue of this election in the end was said to be that of Moral issues. Enough Said!

leog
11-03-2004, 12:36 PM
It's too bad that the American public was so easily swayed/distracted with moral nonsense and away from the issues that really affect our nation like the deficit, our relations with the rest of the world, the Iraq mess, our sputtering economy, etc...

Score one for apathy/greed/ignorance/false pride. Last time I checked it was angry Iraqis sick of our occupation that were killing young Americans, not *ay-marriages; get real.

Brettolius
11-03-2004, 12:37 PM
yep, fall in line when we get drafted to fight another nonsense war. moral issues? sorry, can't really have confidence in a leader who in the year 2004 believes in an invisible man in the sky that has a list of 10 rules that we must follow. he loves us all, but if we fail to follow these rules, we will burn in hell for all eternity. oh yeah, dinosaurs didn't exist and evolution is WAY less believable than the claim that we were created from dirt and a rib. tony roma's is sitting on quite a stockpile!

Gatsby007
11-03-2004, 12:48 PM
Still spitting out draft Propaganda. Al Sharpton would be proud. Take a lesson from your weak candidates and lose graciously. This negative energy needs to be used to fix the problematic democratic party!

tennis-n-sc
11-03-2004, 12:51 PM
I think both parties continue to miss the boat with regarde to the vast majority of the American people. I think most people are really middle of the road, thoughtful, compassionate, and concerned folks who usually vote for who they see as the better of the candidates, not the best. I thought both Bush and Kerry had plenty of shortcomings and there are better folks out there. They just weren't running. I consider myself a conservative, not a Republican. I am for gun control and environmental protection but certainly not a liberal nor a Democrat. But the great thing about this country is if you don't like the place or the way it is run, you can go to one of those countries that elect their leader by popular vote. I think Alec Baldwin is gathering a group together now. I have been in many contries around the world and there are many that rival the U.S.A. in beauty. But there is no other country like America in the world. Other people are risking their lives to get here. They don't care who is president. There is one thing about Americans that is amazing. We are at our absolute best as a whole when everything around us is at its absolute worst. This country and its citizens are great. This country has been great for 200 years and counting. This election result is not the beginning of anything nor the end of anything, but just a little blip in the middle. I am gonna do whatever I can to help my country defeat terrorism and prosper. And I think most of us will do that no matter who is president. It is our differences that make us great along with our ability to settle the differences without violence. So let's get it on.

khs_tennis
11-03-2004, 12:58 PM
First off, the draft is far from happening. And i would like to thank all of our armed force for what they're doing, helping other contries enjoy freedoms we have. These people will much more comfortably and happily once all this is over and so will we. I was watching the CBS reports (which they were more for Bush which surprised, probably trying to kiss his ***) but i believe that they showed a statistic where the biggest issue in this election was morals and morality. Unless the democrats become less "radical" the republicans will be in the white house till about 2016.

I dont know about you, but i dont trust him as the commander and chief of this country. The national security of this country will go down the drain and then all of a sudden, we have another 9/11. With Bush, another terrorist attack like that will probably never happen. Also, Kerry would've spread our armed forces too thin, causing a draft. He would've been pulling troops out by summer of 2006 and we could possibly be out of there totally by early 2007. This means the job in Iraq might not be finished and the insurgents could possibly take over Iraq again. What did that accomplish? Nothing, we're back to square one again. With Bush, the job will get done effectively and efficiently. Yes, they are American men and women dying over there, but they're dying for a noble cause. They'll be saving a nation.

perfmode
11-03-2004, 01:12 PM
I was looking at a map and it looks like all the worldy/educated Americans voted Kerry while the farmers, Walmart shoppers and people who have never left their small towns all voted Bush. I'm not saying that you are a walmart shopper if you vote for Bush. It's the other way around.

Chopin
11-03-2004, 01:24 PM
"This country is a republic. Our founding fathers intended for the states to elect the president, not the people. We already have *******ized the constitution by allowing direct election of Senators..."

Are you a moron? Simply because something is written in the constitution doesn't mean its the best form of government! We haven't "*******ized" the constitution...many amendments have been made to the constitution for the good of the country. The constitution was made so it could be amended. How could you believe its bad that we directly elect our senators? The current electoral college system gives an unfair advantage to small states, its not as if political campaigns are focusing on California or New York. Yes, if we switched to popular vote campaigns would look more towards large urban populations but this is much better than focusing on the minority of the country. At the very least, we could divide the electoral votes of each state by congressional district.

RacquetDoctor
11-03-2004, 01:26 PM
Perfmode...

As a person who grew up in Boston, went to BC High, then Boston College, lived there for 30 years, and now reside in GA...

If you look at the map...most of the people who actually earn a living voted against sKerry...

We are all tired of the Liberal BS Rant. Look at your map, you'll see that it is the cities that tend to vote Democrat, not the burbs...the avg income in the cities is in the toilets(worldly educated americans?...they commute to work in the city...they don't live there)...they(low income) vote for who will give the most handouts.

Thank goodness Kerry didn't win. I'm all for helping people in need, just on my terms, I don't need 40% of my paycheck given to some slacker.

tykrum
11-03-2004, 02:25 PM
Thank goodness Kerry didn't win. I'm all for helping people in need, just on my terms, I don't need 40% of my paycheck given to some slacker.

Another misinformed Republican. Paychecks going to poorer people? First of all only the taxes on the top .1% would have their taxes rolled back, and those people can really survive with a little less money. I know other people with less initial income do. And the rollback of that tax would be going towards useful government programs, paying off the deficit that has been accumulated under the Bush regime, and allowing for tax breaks for the middle class which constitutes most of the population. Can't expound on this topic anymore because I have to go, but anyway its over so it doesn't matter anymore. But please no bragging about a huge victory when the total national margin was only 51% to 48%.

drakulie
11-03-2004, 02:30 PM
HE HAD NO CHOICE TO CONCEDE...HE KNEW HE WAS GOING TO LOSE. IF HE HAD ANY HONOR OR DIGNITY, HE WOULD HAVE CONCEDED BACK IN 1972 THAT HE IS A TRAITOR! :twisted:

The tennis guy
11-03-2004, 02:31 PM
My problem with this campaign is people ignored the most serious issue facing this country - its own finance. If we continue to run huge deficit, raising debt ceiling every year, with China and Japan as our main trade partners and creditors at the same time, US economy will continue to go down the hill. I hope people do realize this before the cost to correct this is too high.

I don't understand why people in this country become so partisan. Why can't we sit down and have serious discussion about our financial future. Ross Perot did a great job bring the issue to national conscisous in early 1990s. Unfortunately, it is completely lost in the partisan fight. Be aware, sharp economic downturn is in near future. Objective economists warned again and again. Those who believe America is infallable will have rude awakening sooner rather than later.

irishbanger
11-03-2004, 02:37 PM
You guys can gloat better than this! Better get it off your chest---we will have four years to gig your *****!

The tennis guy
11-03-2004, 02:38 PM
White House: Debt Ceiling Must Be Raised

The government hit the current debt ceiling of $7.384 trillion on Oct. 14, forcing Treasury to begin a series of bookkeeping maneuvers to keep financing the government's normal operations without breaching the debt ceiling. But Treasury Secretary John Snow has warned that those special measures would last only until mid-November.

Republicans have proposed that the debt ceiling be raised by $690 billion to $8.074 trillion, an amount that would get the government through next September, when the 2005 budget year ends.


The need to raise the debt ceiling reflects the record budget deficits of the past two years. The deficit for the 2004 budget year, which ended Sept. 30, was an all-time high of $413 billion, surpassing the old mark, in dollar terms, of $377 billion in 2003.

The administration says the president has a plan to cut the deficit in half by 2009, but critics contend that the real problems will come in later years as retiring baby boomers put unprecedented strains on Social Security (news - web sites) and Medicare.


THE ACTUAL DEFICIT IS MUCH HIGHER THAN THE NUMBER CITED BECAUSE THE GOVERMENT CURRENTLY TAKE MORE SOCIAL SECURITY TAX THAN GIVE OUT BENEFIT EACH YEAR. SHORT-SIGHTED SHORT TERM SOLUTIONS DO NOT SOLVE THE PROBLEM, ACTUALLY MAKE IT WORSE LONG TERM.

IT SEEMS NOBODY CARES AT THIS POINT.

Gatsby007
11-03-2004, 02:44 PM
IrishBanger,
Better make that 2016!:) Who is going to beat Guliani/Mccain in '08??
Answer: No one. They just might get 70% of the vote.
I would have no problem seeing Hillary run, at least she's not a war criminal.

The tennis guy
11-03-2004, 02:50 PM
I highly doubt Republicans will nominate pro-choice, pro-gay rights Guiliani, and deficit hawk Mccain in 2008. It will be someone from the right, trust me.

Gatsby007
11-03-2004, 02:54 PM
You COULD be right. I think that both Guilian and Mccain are going to both want to be the President. Having said this, Either one of those guys paired with Jeb Bush or really anyone else would slaughter any democratic offering at this time. Guliani or Mccain would both cross party lines.

The tennis guy
11-03-2004, 03:01 PM
I don't think Guiliani and Mccain want to be vice president for anyone. Not sure about Jeb Bush though.

I am not partisan. I just can't believe Repulicans don't even talk about balance the budget anymore, which makes me think our country is in deep trouble financially.

Gatsby007
11-03-2004, 03:04 PM
You are correct. Mccain or Guliani would be the Presidential cand. with Bush Et Al. for Vice.

Gatsby007
11-03-2004, 03:05 PM
You are correct. Mccain or Guliani would be the Presidential cand. with Bush Et Al. for Vice. It would be an extremely strong ticket either way don't you thnik?

The tennis guy
11-03-2004, 03:07 PM
Trust me, neither Guiliani nor Mccain would ever get Repulican nomination in foreseeable future. If they lost a few times, maybe, but not in the next 8 years.

Gatsby007
11-03-2004, 03:16 PM
You could not be anymore wrong!

Morpheus
11-03-2004, 03:34 PM
If you go with the popular vote, small states and rural areas will never see a candidate, nor will candidates pay attention to the particular issues within those regions.

thejerk
11-03-2004, 04:38 PM
Guiliani wouldn't be considered a republican anywhere but the north east. Mccain/Feingold was the single greatest assault on free speech in years. Neither of them is fit as a national republican.
What I hear from alot of you guys is basically what Ceasar would have loved to hear. Do you remember, Rome was once a republic. Caesar said, in paraphrase, all the mob wants is bread and circuses. All the big cities are democrat and mob. You guys don't even demand that your leaders live by the same rules. For instance, Kerry wants to raise taxes on people making an income, but you don't demand to see his families income taxes, which I'm sure are probably paid at about a 12% tax rate. He has also claimed to own ak47s. He lives in mansions but your happy if he takes others money to throw you some bread. Explain how it is a virtue to vote on raising some elses taxes. If I had my way, taxes would be the same percentage of income, if based on income at all, for everybody, you wouldn't be able to vote on something that doesn't effect you. You want to throw away the republic so that only the enlightened mob rules. "One person one vote," a mindless mantra that. The military comes mostly from the red states, yet you would have only the blue mob chose the Commander n Chief. Wasn't it Plato that declared all republics degenerate into democracies? May have been someone else but I think it was Plato.

You can say the dems aren't the mob, but who has chosen to disarm their neigbors? Almost every dem stronghold I can think of has disarmed its peasants. You can' t even trust each other with guns. You want people that aren't even allowed to own weapons, chose the leader of those that can aim. There are many rights you would give up. That is just one. The dems pushed Mccain/Feingold the hardest. I thought Bush went along with that one because it was obvious that it would be found unconstitutional. Oops!

Sure, let's get the money out of politics, unless, of course, it belongs to Soros(Crasus or Pompei). Kerry is also the most decorated war hero in american history. If you look at the time it took him to earn all the metals he has, he earned more metals in a four mth tme period than anyone before him, yet, he threw them all away. As a conservative, I understand that you value something more if you earn it. He did help save Vietnam from democracy though, so you have to give him that much.

RacquetDoctor
11-03-2004, 05:39 PM
Chopin,
Moron?

I think that idiots like mob rule...that's what a pure democracy is...

Morpheus nailed it on the head.

Sounds like you have a gov't school education...

When you get a job, and start earning a real living, your thoughts will change.

I've heard more people say that when they were young, they were liberal, then they got older, wiser, earned some money and became conservative...

Think about this:

Bush gave somewhere in the neighborhood of 30k to charities...Kerry gave zero. sKerry talks a great game, but when it comes to his own cash, nothing. That's the thing about liberals...it's other people's money...

thejerk
11-03-2004, 05:42 PM
yep, fall in line when we get drafted to fight another nonsense war. moral issues? sorry, can't really have confidence in a leader who in the year 2004 believes in an invisible man in the sky that has a list of 10 rules that we must follow. he loves us all, but if we fail to follow these rules, we will burn in hell for all eternity. oh yeah, dinosaurs didn't exist and evolution is WAY less believable than the claim that we were created from dirt and a rib. tony roma's is sitting on quite a stockpile!

Way easier to believe rocks in the Void were all created from the void. I guess the man made rules of atheists such as Stalin, Castro, Hussein, Mao, and Pol Pot work alota better hu? It doesn't take any faith to believe that nothing and nothing together exploded and made everything.

Bhagi Katbamna
11-03-2004, 06:21 PM
If you want a good couple of hours of fun, take a look at democratunderground.com. The whacky posters here talking about the draft etc... seem rational compared to the posters there.

David Pavlich
11-03-2004, 06:54 PM
I was looking at a map and it looks like all the worldy/educated Americans voted Kerry while the farmers, Walmart shoppers and people who have never left their small towns all voted Bush. I'm not saying that you are a walmart shopper if you vote for Bush. It's the other way around.

Typical pointy-headed academic attitude. The reason Kerry lost to a soft candidate in Bush is that the Democrat party is run by the likes of George "I should have spent my money on Home Depot stock" Soros/Michael "I love to make up things" Moore wing of the party. A good man like Evan Bayh or Joseph Lieberman get shoved aside because they ARE closer to the center.

And I hope you and your ilk continue to have that attitude. Come 2008, the GOP will field a top flight candidate (McCain, Giuliani?). Who's the Dems going to nominate? Hillary (we can only hope)? Howard Dean? John Edwards? The only type candidate that can beat a McCain or Giuliani would be a Lieberman or Bayh or a name from the past, Sam Nunn.

David

David Pavlich
11-03-2004, 07:13 PM
Chopin,
Moron?

I think that idiots like mob rule...that's what a pure democracy is...

Morpheus nailed it on the head.

Sounds like you have a gov't school education...

When you get a job, and start earning a real living, your thoughts will change.

I've heard more people say that when they were young, they were liberal, then they got older, wiser, earned some money and became conservative...

Think about this:

Bush gave somewhere in the neighborhood of 30k to charities...Kerry gave zero. sKerry talks a great game, but when it comes to his own cash, nothing. That's the thing about liberals...it's other people's money...

Hey Doc!

You're fighting an uphill battle. A representative republic (or constitutional republic) is foreign to most. It is a shame that the word "democracy" has become so ingrained into the political lexicon. This is a government that is based on the rule of law, not the rule of man.

As our friend Neal said many times, when people find out that they can vote to take money and/or property away from the people that have it and forcefully give it to the people that don't, the end of the republic will not be far behind. Think about that.

David

Phil
11-03-2004, 07:32 PM
the rule of law, not the rule of man.


What's the difference? The laws are made by men, interpreted by other men, and enforced by...yeah, other men. Laws are artificial, but necessary constraints on a people designed to force compliance (and, a degree of civility).

I guess you're still one of those types afraid of them dar commies, eh? No one in this country is taking anyone else's land and giving it to those less well off, and I don't see any of dem der libs. advocating such a thing, so STFU and have a drink to celebrate your "victory".

Max G.
11-03-2004, 09:22 PM
"This country is a republic. Our founding fathers intended for the states to elect the president, not the people. We already have *******ized the constitution by allowing direct election of Senators..."

Actually, part of the reason for the electoral college was to distance the people from the presidential vote. They knew that the average joe wouldn't be informed enough about the issues and the candidates to be able to cast an informed vote about who should lead the country.

So they decided that instead of having the people elect the president directly, they would elect "electors". These would be local representatives, and your average joe would know enough about the local candidates and their record and their character to be able to make an informed decision as to who he would trust to pick the president. These electors were then supposed to vote for who the president was to be.

The greatest *******ization of the system that we've had - the electors have become a mere formality. They don't make independent decisions like they were intended to - they merely channel the votes from their states.

Brettolius
11-04-2004, 05:47 AM
the jerk wrote:I guess the man made rules of atheists such as Stalin, Castro, Hussein, Mao, and Pol Pot work alota better hu?

what?i've seen you reference them before, and i don't really see what they have to do with anything. there have been some christians that were pretty big *******s too. i mean, you don't think alot of the problems in the history of the world were (and are) spawned by religion? believe what you want, just keep it to yourself. if i want to run the risk of burning in hell for eternity, that's my business,don'tcha think? religions intrude on people more than not. haven't seen any atheist televangelists lately preaching the gospel of there being no god. would you as a holy person be offended if that were going over the airwaves? i'm offended that there is something that we're all just SUPPOSED to believe, and your looked at sideways if you don't.

@wright
11-04-2004, 08:59 AM
Bhagi, I looked at DemocraticUnderground the other day when you posted the link, that was some funny stuff. You can just imagine these flaming liberals going to their favorite coffee shop in Greenwich Village or LA and having a good cry over a cafe au lait. Funny stuff. Their world has been rocked more than you can ever know.

Bhagi Katbamna
11-04-2004, 01:10 PM
Nothing like getting hit hard in the head with a Titanium Clue by four.

thejerk
11-05-2004, 07:47 PM
Brettolius wrote,
what?i've seen you reference them before, and i don't really see what they have to do with anything. there have been some christians that were pretty big *******s too. i mean, you don't think alot of the problems in the history of the world were (and are) spawned by religion? believe what you want, just keep it to yourself. if i want to run the risk of burning in hell for eternity, that's my business,don'tcha think? religions intrude on people more than not. haven't seen any atheist televangelists lately preaching the gospel of there being no god. would you as a holy person be offended if that were going over the airwaves? i'm offended that there is something that we're all just SUPPOSED to believe, and your looked at sideways if you don't.
_________________
it's been real, and it's been fun, it just hasn't been real fun

I feel offended that you wouldn't let people who want to see that preacher, see him. I don't want to push my religion on others, jerkie. I am a nonpracticing fundamentalist Catholic. That means that I take most biblical things literally, however, I live a more decadent life style than you. I love strippers. I love to party. I love to party with multiple strippers. However, that doesn't mean I don't believe.

P.S. Havn't played with strippers in years, I'm married with kids.

Why do you think that christians want to give freedom over to theocracy. Christians have had a long history of persecution. Persecution of each other the most. Why do you think they came here to settle? They came here specifically to escape religious persecution by other christians. More specifically, they escaped monarchs using religion to justify themselves.

I bring up them thugs, because they were atheists. They gave their people the perfect absense of religion. Our rights are attributed to god by the founders. I believe it was so that mere men, couldn't take them away. If men gave us rights, men can take them. The thugs also were offended by religion. Probably because the didn't want to be reminded how imperfect they are.

Socialism and atheism are of the same root. They are a religion of man worship. Look what socialism preaches. It basically, imo, preaches the religion of envy. American socialists are trying to steal many rights. I think they, with their soft bigotry, steal my right to practice my religion. Remember, we have the right to practice our religion. We have freedom of religion not from it. Suddenly I am supposed to feel embarassed because my president speaks openly of praying. Bigots.

Look what you christophobes say. The christian racist/sexist/homophobes are sheep. The stupid masses you call us. You are so narcisistic, you can't see your own bigotry. Your blindness probably comes as a result of having no core values. If good is only good because of you opinion then it has no value. If truth is true, it doesn't matter if no one believes it or every one does.

Max G.
11-05-2004, 09:52 PM
Atheism is not a religion of man worship, as you say.

Atheism is simply the statement that there is no god. Different people take this in different directions.

I fully subscribe to that view, I am fairly sure that no God exists. The reasons for this are completely irrelevant to this discussion, if you want to discuss them do that with me over IM.

I consider myself as having values - which I pick because I consider them the right thing to do. I figure that if more people share those values, the world would be a better place - and thus I do my part to make the world a better place by following those values myself. This has absolutely nothing to do with whether those values come from God, from men, or from the invisible pink unicorn.

"If good is only good because of you opinion then it has no value. If truth is true, it doesn't matter if no one believes it or every one does."

What's your point in saying that? Good is good because of the opinion of who recieves the good. Truth is true regardless of what people believe - what's your point?

mlee2
11-05-2004, 11:29 PM
Don't worry Max, A LOT of things jerk says are incomprehendable. He's obviously a smart person who knows some stuff, it's a shame he doesn't know how to write.

Morpheus
11-06-2004, 01:53 AM
We have freedom of religion not from it. Suddenly I am supposed to feel embarassed because my president speaks openly of praying. Bigots.

It occurs to me that virtually everyone fighting in the world today is monotheistic. It sure is comforting to know that Bush talks to God. I'm sure God likes him the best. Gee, I hope so.

If we win, maybe we can force--oops, I mean convert--them to Christianity. Then maybe they'll become good, honest, God fearing people like we Republicans--oops, I mean Americans!

PugArePeopleToo
11-06-2004, 05:55 AM
thejerk, what does atheism got to do socialism? And speaking of persecution, by imposing christian values, be them same sex marriage or abortion, through law, are christian fundamentalists in the US persecuting those do not share the same values? If you want the government to hand off your guns, but you want the same government to butt in to other folks marriage, isn't that rather hypocritical? I have asked the same question to handgun incorporated tree huging castration of all mankind lesbian feminists, they couldn't give me a good answer, so I thought maybe you gun totting anti-g@y anti-abortion pro-death penalty bible readers could respond better.

perfmode
11-06-2004, 06:20 AM
We have freedom of religion not from it. Suddenly I am supposed to feel embarassed because my president speaks openly of praying. Bigots.

It occurs to me that virtually everyone fighting in the world today is monotheistic. It sure is comforting to know that Bush talks to God. I'm sure God likes him the best. Gee, I hope so.

If we win, maybe we can force--oops, I mean convert--them to Christianity. Then maybe they'll become good, honest, God fearing people like we Republicans--oops, I mean Americans!

Our idea of forcing--err converting them into a democracy is just like Christians "converting" people to Christianity for their own good. We're using democracy to justify things that would otherwise be bad.

The Americans used Christianity to justify slavery. They said that Africans were uncivilized (muslim) and needed to be converted. Now we're using democracy in the exact same way.

chad shaver
11-06-2004, 06:41 AM
Perfmode,

Do you think that slavery is an invention of the white man?

Those Africans taken into slavery were not Muslim. They were not just snatched off the savannah by the white man, either. You know African tribes would take slaves from other tribes, don't you? Maybe you should go back and learn about the Gullah language (see Sierra Leone).

Slavery was an institution for centuries in societies all over the world. Don't try to use that as an excuse to attack Christians.

TripleB
11-06-2004, 08:04 AM
"It's too bad that the American public was so easily swayed/distracted with moral nonsense."

leog,

I agree with you on this one. Everyone in my family was for Bush except for me and my mom. All I wanted anyone to give me was a couple examples of how Bush has really helped this country in the past four years. All I kept getting was "Bush is a Christian"..."Bush is so much more of a Christian than Kerry"..."Remember that $1000 Bush sent you." I really hope that Bush is a great Christian because it seems to me that he's sending America to Hell!!! Maybe that's why he has that "Holier than Thou" attitude he portrays all the time.

I'm a Christian to but that doesn't mean I'd be a better president than somebody else.

I'm just amazed that so many people voted for Bush. When I think of just a couple of things that have gone on in the past four years:

Since I'm a teacher I'll mention the dumbest thing ever created "No Child Left Behind." This has got to be the most stupid thing ever created. EVERY child is not equal therefore they should not be expected to perform equally on a test. A local elementary school has received numerous national awards because of how great they are but now because of NCLB they are considered a low performing school. Because 1 child missed 3 too many questions on 1 end of the year test. The crock is that they should be receiving federal money to improve their school but where is that money? I thought Republicans felt that they should keep their noses out of local concerns?

I really loved his idea to solve the problem of illegal immigrants...let them come on in and live here for 3 years...that will solve the problem.

Bin Laden bombs us and we go after Sadaam :shock: My families response...well he just couldn't get to Bin Laden then. Did he really try?

"OK UN, should we go ahead and attack?" No George, you should wait until we have proof that they have weapons of mass destruction. "Forget that....I don't care if I make the rest of the world mad at the US, I'm going to do what I want to do!" News from the front lines today....well, we found a truck that could not be used for anything other than carrying weapons of mass destruction :shock:

I'm sort of glad that Bush won. 1) When I America goes down the tubes even further he'll get the blame and I'll get to say I told you so! 2) It gives me hope because it lets me know that even stupid people can become president!!!

WHY CAN'T WE GET JUST ONE PERSON IN CHARGE (Republican or Democrat - I vote for the better man) THAT HAS THE ATTITUDE - TO HECK WITH THE REST OF THE WORLD...I WANT TO USE OUR RESOURCES TO REBUILD AMERICA!!!

We concentrate so much on fixing the rest of the world that it seems like we don't even care about ourselves. Someone please run that believes that it's OK to be a little selfish.

That is all.

God Bless.

TripleB

Chopin
11-10-2004, 04:22 PM
Chopin,
Moron?

I think that idiots like mob rule...that's what a pure democracy is...

Morpheus nailed it on the head.

Sounds like you have a gov't school education...

When you get a job, and start earning a real living, your thoughts will change.

I've heard more people say that when they were young, they were liberal, then they got older, wiser, earned some money and became conservative...

Think about this:

Bush gave somewhere in the neighborhood of 30k to charities...Kerry gave zero. sKerry talks a great game, but when it comes to his own cash, nothing. That's the thing about liberals...it's other people's money...

I'm sorry, I'm not following your logic. Could you explain how getting rid of the electoral college has anything to do with what you wrote in your response? And well many wealthy people do tend to be republican-people at wealthiest (and poorest) levels of society are liberal. Perhaps the difference between "making a real living" and well uhh...making a living, is that some of us aren't willing to give up our values and beliefs of how an ideal government should be run simply because we are "hurt" more by progressive taxation. The point is that we can afford it.
The answers to the country's economic problems have nothing to do with a flat tax like what Bush wants. Perhaps, Bush should stop expanding the government and reduce his ridiculous spending budget. Bush is not a conservative in the traditional sense of the word, he's piling on money to the national debt and still tries to cut taxes for the rich, all the while expanding government programs. Its ridiculous, all the economists Iíve read articles by or spoken to in person feel that heís a fiscally-irresponsible president. The answer to fix our economic problems is NEVER to jack up taxes on the middle-class, who cannot afford it and should the ones that are driving our economy.

Chopin
11-11-2004, 11:53 AM
If you go with the popular vote, small states and rural areas will never see a candidate, nor will candidates pay attention to the particular issues within those regions.
OK man nice point-join a debate team with that one, as it is campaigns ignore most of the population...funny that I haven't seen too many campaigns in NY...take your pick: small rural populations get ignored-larger populations-namely those which are the economic capitals of the country get ignored...not a hard decision.
At the very least, all the states should be divided by congressional district and their electoral votes should be divided in that manner.