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Tennis Guy
11-06-2004, 10:59 AM
I was looking at the ATP's MatchFacts (http://www.atptennis.com/en/players/matchfacts/default.asp) and I realized that Karlovic is averaging over 21 aces per match. That's over 5 aces per match more the the second highest. (Johansson with 15.76.) I've never seen him play, but 21 aces a match sounds amazing.

Tennis Guy
11-06-2004, 11:09 AM
Here is a list of aces per match using the players from the ATP's top 10 aces list. (I tried my best to make a chart. I had to do hyphens, because it just erased spaces.)

Player----------Aces---Matches-------APM
1st Karlovic-------842----40------------21.05
2nd Johansson---- 867----55------------15.76
3rd Verkerk ------- 530----41------------12.93
4th Roddick -------952----75------------12.69
5th Gambill ------- 505----43------------11.74
6th Ljubicic ------- 595 ---- 53------------11.23
7th Safin --------- 610 ---- 62------------9.84
8th Lopez -------- 510 ---- 52------------9.81
9th Federer ------- 517 ---- 69------------7.49
10th Hewitt ------- 484 ---- 76------------6.37

!Tym
11-06-2004, 11:35 AM
Let me say this. Karlovic isn't the hardest server and he doesn't have the most explosive motion, but it's different when the balls coming from WAAAAY up there.

Well, I've never played anyone 6'10", but I do know that I've played players with big serves but coming from different height perspectives. To my mind, there is no question whatsoever that the big serve coming from someone way tall is way more effective. The ball just seems to hit the court differently and interfere with your strike zone more. It really throws you off.

It's weird, 'cause I used to play with one guy who was 6'6" ish and he had a fairly big serve, but he didn't serve it as big in terms of raw mph as a 5'8" friend who had an officially rated 124 plus first serve. But even still, I found it much more difficult to return the serve of the guy serving from the oak tree. It wasn't the shear pace or spin, per say, I don't really know what it was. But it just felt different and totally threw me off...kind of like how when a ball hits the a line, it skids...just that feeling of a different perspective and throwing off your depth-perception or something.

thatballwas_IN
11-06-2004, 11:57 AM
If only DR. IVO could RETURN serve just a little bit!
The big oaf can't break anybody's serve so it always goes to a tiebreak of which he loses plenty.

He could become a serious threat if he becomes more than just a serve. But until then, it seems like a waste of Aces!

tennisboy87
11-06-2004, 02:47 PM
It's interesting that Hewitt is 10th. His serve is underrated imo. If he was just a couple inches taller, his serve could be even better.

pound cat
11-06-2004, 02:48 PM
I wonder if Ivo even has a coach. It's just recently that he's started to make money & it would be great if some kind-hearted person (helloooo goran) helped him out a bit. Todd Martin said he's got the most difficult serve to deal with in tennis.

bcaz
11-06-2004, 05:04 PM
One doesn't get aces by messing with your strike zone. One gets an ace by hitting it as far away from your strike zone as possible.

!Tym
11-06-2004, 06:18 PM
Well, in my experience you also get aces by messing with your strike zone...it's called batter swings and misses. Don't know what it is, but playing against an abnormally tall server makes it more much more difficult for me to time the bounce and make contact with the ball...but that's just me. It just really throws me off, it's not the pace, placement, or spin. It's something about a guy serving from a tree, it throws off my perspective.

Maybe it's just me.

!Tym
11-06-2004, 06:27 PM
Put it this way, my technically bigger serving friend who is a very solid open player, his favorite serve is the big heater up the T. If it misses, it's usually a little long...but generally very close to the T.

If I'm expecting it, I can almost always get my racket on the ball at the very least, I just have a knack for positioning my racket in the right place given the split-second reactive circumstances. Now on the other hand, my about 10mph less hard serving 6'6" hitting partner could go for the same serve up the T, and I'm MUCH more likely to swing and miss. Not because I didn't get there in time, but rather because I misplace my racket with regard to the ball. This is a consequence of the different perspective from which he's serving from. Like I said, it just throws me off for whatever reason.

To me, the same phenomenon occurs on tour. Take Chang, for example. He could bop a pretty fast serve down the T, but in no way would it be as effective as the same mph serve coming from a taller guy in my opinion.

With Karlovic, you see a guy who is not the fastest server and whose motion and racket head speed are not particularly explosive; yet, his serve is arguably the most difficult to return on tour. This in spite of others clearly eclipsing him in terms of raw mph or rpms.

Safin and Moya generate similar mph and even more spin in my opinion, but they are shorter. They have very good serves, but not virtually unhittiable serves. That to me is the difference.

When it comes from waaay up top, it's simply more intimidating and difficult to judge the flight path of the ball in my opinion.

antontd
11-06-2004, 06:41 PM
Put it this way, my technically bigger serving friend who is a very solid open player, his favorite serve is the big heater up the T. If it misses, it's usually a little long...but generally very close to the T.

If I'm expecting it, I can almost always get my racket on the ball at the very least, I just have a knack for positioning my racket in the right place given the split-second reactive circumstances. Now on the other hand, my about 10mph less hard serving 6'6" hitting partner could go for the same serve up the T, and I'm MUCH more likely to swing and miss. Not because I didn't get there in time, but rather because I misplace my racket with regard to the ball. This is a consequence of the different perspective from which he's serving from. Like I said, it just throws me off for whatever reason.

To me, the same phenomenon occurs on tour. Take Chang, for example. He could bop a pretty fast serve down the T, but in no way would it be as effective as the same mph serve coming from a taller guy in my opinion.

With Karlovic, you see a guy who is not the fastest server and whose motion and racket head speed are not particularly explosive; yet, his serve is arguably the most difficult to return on tour. This in spite of others clearly eclipsing him in terms of raw mph or rpms.

Safin and Moya generate similar mph and even more spin in my opinion, but they are shorter. They have very good serves, but not virtually unhittiable serves. That to me is the difference.

When it comes from waaay up top, it's simply more intimidating and difficult to judge the flight path of the ball in my opinion.

Karlovic has the advantage only when he serves wide, your example is pointless.

max
11-06-2004, 07:35 PM
I saw Ivo play about three years ago in Urbana. He made the tennis court look small. . .it reminded me of when an adult walks into a kindergarten classroom and stands by those little kiddie chairs and desks. His forehand took up enormous space; his serve was smoking.

!Tym
11-06-2004, 07:54 PM
Put it this way, my technically bigger serving friend who is a very solid open player, his favorite serve is the big heater up the T. If it misses, it's usually a little long...but generally very close to the T.

If I'm expecting it, I can almost always get my racket on the ball at the very least, I just have a knack for positioning my racket in the right place given the split-second reactive circumstances. Now on the other hand, my about 10mph less hard serving 6'6" hitting partner could go for the same serve up the T, and I'm MUCH more likely to swing and miss. Not because I didn't get there in time, but rather because I misplace my racket with regard to the ball. This is a consequence of the different perspective from which he's serving from. Like I said, it just throws me off for whatever reason.

To me, the same phenomenon occurs on tour. Take Chang, for example. He could bop a pretty fast serve down the T, but in no way would it be as effective as the same mph serve coming from a taller guy in my opinion.

With Karlovic, you see a guy who is not the fastest server and whose motion and racket head speed are not particularly explosive; yet, his serve is arguably the most difficult to return on tour. This in spite of others clearly eclipsing him in terms of raw mph or rpms.

Safin and Moya generate similar mph and even more spin in my opinion, but they are shorter. They have very good serves, but not virtually unhittiable serves. That to me is the difference.

When it comes from waaay up top, it's simply more intimidating and difficult to judge the flight path of the ball in my opinion.

Karlovic has the advantage only when he serves wide, your example is pointless.

No, it's not pointless. This is *my* opinion. My assertion is that for me personally seeing someone serve from a higher vantage point throws my sense of depth-perception off. I theorize that it maybe the same for others on tour as well, and judging from some comments that *may* be the case.

It's not merely about physics and angles and being able to swing out wide and black or white...it's just an intuition on my part.

Just because you say it's pointless doesn't mean it's pointless for me. For me, it throws me off so I make an opinion accordingly. The orientation of my shadow on the court also throws me off. It doesn't for everyone, but it does for me and a few others I know so it's not "pointless" per say. Maybe technically, shadows shouldn't throw my "feel" for my stroking form off, but it does for me, so what can I say?

Furthermore, the same ball hit with the same speed and mph and is not going to bounce the same when it hits the court when coming from different heights, irrespective going out wide or down the line.

K!ck5w3rvE
11-06-2004, 08:09 PM
If someone serves a body serve at you at 200 km/h, I'd prefer it to be from Rochus than from Karlovic anyday. The same for a serve down the middle, I wouldnt fancy returning a falt serve a metre above my shoulders.

NoBadMojo
11-06-2004, 08:12 PM
i can understand what !Tym (SpecialK) is saying because it is rare to be returning serve against someone 6'6 or taller and the ball is coming to you at different angles because it is coming on a much different plane than the norm...is like returning the serve of a lefty..it just isnt something you see alot so it is often more difficult...i think if you played the guy more often you would obviously be able to get into more of a groove. ed