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keithchircop
09-25-2007, 04:51 AM
The authorities (not only US) didn't allow the press to report on what they heard at this conference to prevent widespread panic. Pretty interesting stuff. Check it out: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-1166743665260900218

ananda
09-25-2007, 10:28 PM
what is the gist of it, anyway ???

SoBad
09-25-2007, 10:34 PM
It's a great topic on UFO's, but there are also valid concerns already being voiced in this thread. Surely we don't need to watch a two hour video in order to have a healthy discussion on UFO's.

By the way, I have seen an alien spaceship - it was rotating like a plate in the sky. And I was not alone, so the sighting was confirmed. So it is actually true that round shapes work for interplanetary travel.

keithchircop
09-25-2007, 11:01 PM
what is the gist of it, anyway ???

It's the taping of a press conference where a bunch of retired high ranking officials from the CIA, NASA, US army, ATC etc gave accounts of what happens when there is proof of the existence of UFOs or alien life. Dozens of reporters from all over the world attended the conference but nothing ever made the news. Which is what happens when someone in a high place makes such a thing public. As usual, we only hear the news they want us to hear.

Surely we don't need to watch a two hour video in order to have a healthy discussion on UFO's.

The OP is about getting people to watch the vid not discussing flying saucers.

ananda
09-26-2007, 12:46 AM
By the way, I have seen an alien spaceship - it was rotating like a plate in the sky. And I was not alone, so the sighting was confirmed. So it is actually true that round shapes work for interplanetary travel.

no, round shapes do not work when you have to travel at velocities like half or 3/4th that of light. at least that's what the current science/scientists have us believe.

and, if you've ever tried getting through a black hole in a spherical object you would know what i am talking of!
(j/k)

dont mind my asking, sobad, fine you have seen a rotating plate in the sky, but how do you know it was alien ?

for that matter, i might see some blinking lights in the sky that look like a commercial airliner, and assume its terrestrial. it could be alien, made to look like something terrestrial so as to not be picked up visually by lay people.

there's only one thing that doesnt make sense in the whole theory of governments covering up aliens and UFOs. this would have to be the worlds best kept secret. i can't see how so many thousands of people all over the world just decided to keep mum about this (i mean goverment and defence people with the details). Poeple talk, even people in high places. only one or two mil officers have talked, to my knowledge which is too small a number to believe.

slice bh compliment
09-26-2007, 12:54 AM
Well of course people talk. Then other people shut those people up.

The humans in power pretty much keep the rest of the humans on a need to know basis. It just works better that way. You'll see what I mean in about 3.14 light years.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to put on my tinfoil hat and pack for my trip to Area 61. Ooops, I've already said too much. Storm, can you help me out here.

ananda
09-26-2007, 12:55 AM
without seeing the 2 hour video, another comment. This whole thing does not make sense.
If someone can come all the way from some other planet to ours, their intelligence and technology has to be way above ours. If they find out (which they will) that our governments do not want the common man to know about their existence, they would not be flying around in saucers or whatever revealing their existence to lay people. they are not amateurs!
if they decide they want all to know, they will make sure the whole earth sees it. Either way this whole mystery would not be created.
Knowing the stage we are at - hostile, at war among ourselves -- i doubt that they would want any contact with us at all.

ananda
09-26-2007, 12:57 AM
Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to put on my tinfoil hat and pack for my trip to Area 61. Ooops, I've already said too much. Storm, can you help me out here.

hey slice_bh, DONT go anywhere. we need u here to keep the Word Assoc thread alive!

Dedans Penthouse
09-26-2007, 04:24 AM
Am going to be in Roswell, New Mexico this weekend (I'm staying at the Sauroian Hilton). Are there any good tennis clubs in Roswell?

doubletrouble
09-26-2007, 08:50 AM
i am not a regular participator on the forum here, but did want to comment on this subject, as i have had many experiences my whole life and do believe it to be true. most of my experiences were in new mexico, but if you follow a spiritual meditative path you will be shown everything because the truth is already within each person, hidden within

you only have to watch the video to understand there is something real going on....why comment until you watch it?

i however had a hard time watching that video, it keeps stopping...or downloading it but there are several others there also on gooogle and on coasttocoastam.com/ also videos on free energy...which we should all be utilizing if the evil empire didnt have control of our life force

download and watch all those videos on the disclosure project free energy, etc and see what you think then.

it is time to take our power back and be all we are and were meant to be
as a species

they have spent four decades preparing us to know the truth ...and its time now..but still the evil empire wants to control everything and keep the sheep grazing -fattening them for the slaughter with ignorance

be still and know the truth

Fee
09-26-2007, 09:01 AM
Why do aliens only fly over the US? And usually only over the same 4 states?

doubletrouble
09-26-2007, 09:23 AM
ufo's are everywhere, all over the planet...crop circles are clearly messages and i had one appear in a field behind my house in middleton, wisconsin while doing past life regression consistently in my basement and hosting metaphysical lectures in my healing center/bookstore in madison, ancient future
mexico is being inundated, peru, russia,england, everywhere


there is information out there if you look, but the empire camouflages the truth

ananda
09-26-2007, 08:16 PM
if you get a chance, do read this excellent short story called "The Guardian Angel" by Arthur C Clarke.

Dedan, do tell us if you pplayed tennis with any aliens. i believe the four handed backhand is a beauty to watch. take your dig camera with you.

lethalfang
09-26-2007, 09:08 PM
Nixon couldn't keep secret of lowlife 3rd-rate burglars. Clinton couldn't keep secret of blow jobs. Dubya couldn't keep secret of his sub-human IQ.
What makes you think they can keep secret of aliens through all these years?

Phil
09-26-2007, 09:23 PM
Nixon couldn't keep secret of lowlife 3rd-rate burglars. Clinton couldn't keep secret of blow jobs. Dubya couldn't keep secret of his sub-human IQ.
What makes you think they can keep secret of aliens through all these years?
It's not a secret, as readers of the National Enquirer and Weekly World News know all too well.

SoBad
09-26-2007, 10:23 PM
no, round shapes do not work when you have to travel at velocities like half or 3/4th that of light. at least that's what the current science/scientists have us believe.

and, if you've ever tried getting through a black hole in a spherical object you would know what i am talking of!
(j/k)

dont mind my asking, sobad, fine you have seen a rotating plate in the sky, but how do you know it was alien ?

for that matter, i might see some blinking lights in the sky that look like a commercial airliner, and assume its terrestrial. it could be alien, made to look like something terrestrial so as to not be picked up visually by lay people.

there's only one thing that doesnt make sense in the whole theory of governments covering up aliens and UFOs. this would have to be the worlds best kept secret. i can't see how so many thousands of people all over the world just decided to keep mum about this (i mean goverment and defence people with the details). Poeple talk, even people in high places. only one or two mil officers have talked, to my knowledge which is too small a number to believe.

You might be right about shapes for traveling at very VERY high velocity like ¾ of light speed. However, how do we know that today’s interplanetary traveler’s are after the speed? If one is comfortable in flight, no need to require extraordinary velocity. That’s what some British Airways passengers claim anyways now that Concord is gone. I wonder though if my limited experience in trying to get through a black hole in a spherical object is an obstacle to understanding your view here.

As for why we thought the rotating plate ship was alien, it was just an intuitive guess, since surely it would have been covered by the media or whatever if those had been developed on Earth. So yeah can’t be sure, just an intuitive guess.

As for “cover-ups”, I wouldn’t know, the media are so full of it, that nobody cares what they say or don’t say. Seeing an alien ship once is more convincing than hearing from the media 100 times that the alien ships aren’t cruising around.

Phil
09-26-2007, 10:54 PM
Hey, SFrazeur...why the heavy hand in deleting my last post, which was completely tongue-in-cheek humorous? Can you differentiate between humor and other emotions?

ananda
09-26-2007, 10:54 PM
You might be right about shapes for traveling at very VERY high velocity like ¾ of light speed. However, how do we know that today’s interplanetary traveler’s are after the speed? If one is comfortable in flight, no need to require extraordinary velocity. That’s what some British Airways passengers claim anyways now that Concord is gone. I wonder though if my limited experience in trying to get through a black hole in a spherical object is an obstacle to understanding your view here.
actually what i say is based more on what current thought is, and its partly in scifi circles. a lot has been thought about those slow seed shisp where generations passed on board for example. the original generation agrees to spend the rest of their lives on a ship. the generaton thats are born on the ship, and know they will die on it, have no motivation to support the endeavour. that's one case. there are plenty of subcases too, of what happens when you land. leaving a comfortable ship environ for a new hostile planetray env that has to be built from scratch. in the centuries that have passed things have changed here ....

another case i recall, is that technology is going to keep going forward after the slow seed ships have left. so soon (in 10 years) you could have a faste ship zoom by you. And again in another 10 years ... so by the time you land, other ships have preceded you, and tough luck, no one wants you on the planet...
the third was the cryogenic case, freezing the guys and then thawing them out. i can't off hand recall the issues there. (going thru that black hole has resulted in some amnesia ;-) )
i know this is all speculation, but is what some of the best minds have thought deeply on this subject for years, and what they've come out with.


As for why we thought the rotating plate ship was alien, it was just an intuitive guess, since surely it would have been covered by the media or whatever if those had been developed on Earth. So yeah can’t be sure, just an intuitive guess.
i dont fault you at all. the opposite case, is also equally possible. aliens looking just like humans or some familiar animal.

SoBad
09-26-2007, 11:02 PM
^^ OK thanks for writing your detailed thoughts on this. I wished to acknowledge your reply, but it will take me some time to read through and evaluate the concepts you are sharing here. It's really thought-provoking, because I know I saw the plate-shaped ship, but I did not ask myself how it traveled through space and from where. But I am definitely going to think more about this now.

ananda
09-26-2007, 11:11 PM
^^ OK thanks for writing your detailed thoughts on this. I wished to acknowledge your reply, but it will take me some time to read through and evaluate the concepts you are sharing here. It's really thought-provoking, because I know I saw the plate-shaped ship, but I did not ask myself how it traveled through space and from where. But I am definitely going to think more about this now.
i am not challenging you at all.
its entirely possible that they came some other way (what scifi calls the Mother Ship), and then use this for jaunts around the planet.

i would expect them to be more discreet though!

However, one thing i would like to voice here (had no other place to voice it, haha) is that as per my reckoning, aliens who reach this far should be friendly, unlike what american movies keep portraying (ID, Mars attacks, war of the worlds, etc).

SoBad
09-26-2007, 11:22 PM
^^ Well I wasn’t really complaining about being challenged, I just wanted to let you know that I had read your post and had to take some time to absorb the information.

The mothership idea is actually making a lot of sense, because one might take a flight to go to another city, but surely they wouldn’t be touring around the city by plane (one would use a taxi). So it would make sense for alien expedition to dock their spaceship in some uninhabitable area of the Earth and then make their rounds on plate-shaped “taxi” ships around the Earth.

And I do think they should be friendly, at least we weren’t getting any bad vibes from that one plate ship we saw rotating in the night sky.

doubletrouble
09-27-2007, 09:26 AM
i work as a shaman and can awaken multidimesionality thru meditative healing techniques, i am not here to promote myself because i have seen over the years on this message board that people have mixed feelings about that.
there is alot to know about life and yourself when one looks within to the collective unconscious memory and awakens the higher self. in my experience, when one raised their vibrational frequency that these things become more apparent...
ie: i was standing staring at a ufo that was only a yard in diameter in front of my house in new mexico, and my partner could not see it..it was glowing and irradescent...stopped and connected with me then floated down the road..i was living in the sangre de cristo mountains and there were frequent sitings, seen by people of all walks of life
i practice multi dimenionality on a regular basis and my partner did not, and he was in a negaive emotional state at that time that i believe blocked him from seeing it
many videos are on youtube also

including enlightenment techniques wherein you can know and see, raise your vibration and therefore gain more understanding

i wish someone would actually watch the videos of the disclosure project and free energy, and get into a conversation here!

Phil
09-27-2007, 02:16 PM
i work as a shaman and can awaken multidimesionality thru meditative healing techniques, i am not here to promote myself because i have seen over the years on this message board that people have mixed feelings about that.
there is alot to know about life and yourself when one looks within to the collective unconscious memory and awakens the higher self. in my experience, when one raised their vibrational frequency that these things become more apparent...
ie: i was standing staring at a ufo that was only a yard in diameter in front of my house in new mexico, and my partner could not see it..it was glowing and irradescent...stopped and connected with me then floated down the road..i was living in the sangre de cristo mountains and there were frequent sitings, seen by people of all walks of life
i practice multi dimenionality on a regular basis and my partner did not, and he was in a negaive emotional state at that time that i believe blocked him from seeing it
many videos are on youtube also

including enlightenment techniques wherein you can know and see, raise your vibration and therefore gain more understanding

i wish someone would actually watch the videos of the disclosure project and free energy, and get into a conversation here!
Ahh, okay-gotcha. I've got a couple crystals that I need to unload, cheap. You interested?

ananda
09-27-2007, 08:04 PM
sobad, i dont know what your reading tastes are like, but if you can, read Arthur C Clarke's short stories: Guardian Angel, and Sentinel.
they are simple but beautiful.

SoBad
09-28-2007, 09:33 PM
sobad, i dont know what your reading tastes are like, but if you can, read Arthur C Clarke's short stories: Guardian Angel, and Sentinel.
they are simple but beautiful.

Thanks for your advice. Could you tell a little bit more about those, without spoiling? I do like simple and beautiful.

ananda
09-28-2007, 10:08 PM
Thanks for your advice. Could you tell a little bit more about those, without spoiling? I do like simple and beautiful.

there's no way i could tell you without spoiling it :-)
in the Sentinel, we find a pyramid like structure on the moon, and try breaking it. i believe this short short story could have been what inspired 2001. it does reveal how an alien race might wish to interact with us.

in the guardian angel, iirc, earth is taken over by this race that never shows its face. for many decades it rules. people start getting desperate cos they want to see the faces of these creatures. i know that sounds like some el cheapo theme. finally some guys try to track down the alien race.

i have them in a book named The Sentinel which has many more excellent stories.

Contact was a pretty interesting movie. i liked the concept of interacting thru Math, but i did not care for the end.

One thing that bugs me a bit is how some writers depict an alien race that is far advanced, contacts us. the first question we ask is: is there God?
the advanced alien race says No. and that is sort of proof that God does not exist.

this is so ridiculous and illogical, altho once cannot expect a scientist to understand why, since scientific and spiritual progress are two totally different paths. We assume that scientific knowledge will encompass all other knowledges. and that "scientific proof" can be used in the spiritual area.

Scientific research will not and CAN not ever include or touch upon the area that spiritual knowledge or experience does. i know this requires a lot of explanation. In very brief, Scientific knowledge and research can only detect what is NOT sentient. The body and mind are NOT sentient. Spirituality deals with what IS sentient, and only what is sentient can detect sentience. Again, the mind, body and devices canNOT detect sentience.

So all our measuring devices are NEVER going to detect what we refer to as the Self or Brahman (in the Vedas).

And those advanced aliens zipping around at super-luminal velocities may have no idea of God if they spent all their lives in scientific pursuit.

India was advanced in the spiritual area thousands of years ago (Vedas, Upanishads). All pseudo-scientists can do is come up with crummy stuff about a God gene or God part of the brain which gives people pseudo-experiences.

Hope i haven't ruffled any feathers with this post.

SoBad
09-28-2007, 10:33 PM
Thanks for your essay. I must say that in my opinion there is no contradiction between science and spiritual or "supernatural" experience or ability. Actually, I think this discussion is bigger than UFO's and perhaps deserves a separate thread. Because just from some posts in this thread alone it is evident that there are other people on the forum that have some connection experience that would be commonly considered "supernatural".

ananda
09-29-2007, 12:09 AM
Thanks for your essay. I must say that in my opinion there is no contradiction between science and spiritual or "supernatural" experience or ability. Actually, I think this discussion is bigger than UFO's and perhaps deserves a separate thread. Because just from some posts in this thread alone it is evident that there are other people on the forum that have some connection experience that would be commonly considered "supernatural".
there is one major contradiction. when i talk of spirituality i do not talk of astral bodies, psychic powers, higher worlds and all that. i do not talk of visions (which are still in the realm of the mind).
i talk of the one and only final reality. that of "what is".
"we" are not interested in occult phenomenon or power, not interested in "siddhis" or supernatural powers. that does not strictly come in our area.

i know this sounds totally crazy to a "normal" crowd, esp when just spoken of so casually. I do NOT ever talk of these things EVER to anyone. And i am surprised i am saying this on a tennis forum.

the entire world we talk off, including our bodies are all in the mind. Even the Buddha once said "All that we are, arises with our thoughts.
With our thoughts we make the world." this is a literal truth, dont try looking for double meanings and dispel the direct meaning.
So all scientific pursuit only remains withing the realm of illusion.

Just as the body and world you saw in your dream last night was created in your mind, so is this body and all others.
this CANNOT be reasoned and logicized, it can only be directly experienced.

the only reality is "what is", and "what is" is what is SENTIENT, what knows it is alive, and that is not the body or the mind. And that sentience is a single sentience, not multiple. The mind makes it appear separate. There is no lower and higher self, there is just the one Self.
The mind is the true "matrix", that builds up a world and traps us in it. it is a curtain that covers what is sentient.

As long as one hankers after "experiences" and occult and supernatural one can never have that quiet peaceful mind that is required to seek its source, or see what is under it. That is why many enlightened people such as the Buddha and Ramana Maharshi kept telling aspirants not to desire powers and siddhis and visions, to ignore all such things.

I don't know where i have reached in this whole pursuit, how much further there is, (and the funniest is how at this v reclusive stage of my life, i have suddenly taken to tennis !!!) but i can honestly tell you today that as i percieve it, there is ONLY God here. Only God exists, it cannot be shared or proved. It cannot possibly be even given, until the time comes. When a persons time comes, you will know. Thus, i gave up talking about this topic totally or discussing or arguing etc.

Each living being is God, the only difference is that some know it and can try to point out the way, (like Jesus and Moses and Buddha and various others,) and the rest don't know it. When i go for a walk, i do see the same divinity in trees and insects and in people who fight me, (and even that dear jerk who plays tennis with me). None of this is what i read or wanted or prayed for. i was an atheist. i speak from what i experience.

Once you know you are what is sentient, and not this body or mind, there is no suffering beyond that, only love for all beings. and only happiness.

And you can continue to exist in todays world, except that you will never hurt others, or compete with others, or understand what victory or loss means, you will never know regret for the past, or worry for the future because rather than just "believe" in a God, u truly experience him in all at all moments.

Can you imagine how it is, to live without a moments regret and a moments worry ?

(btw, none of the above contradicts or differs with what Jesus experienced, its just that in India there was freedom to express the truth clearly. it is possible that Christ had to word it carefully and indirectly due to the intolerant atmosphere at that time. I see the truth shining out of what Jesus said, but its likely that others read it differently since they have never experienced what he spoke of).

ananda
09-29-2007, 03:27 AM
sobad, your plate/flying saucer sighting had me thinking. there has to be some merit to that design cos frisbees and discuses are built like that. and they do spin v fast.
such a device does rely on an atmosphere, i cannot imagine a frisbee or discus working in an airless environmet like the Moon or outer space, so it cannot be used for interstellar travel, only for sight-seeing once you've reached a planet.
did you say it was spinning, or am i imagining that ?

some smart dudes will point out that the guys inside are going to have one huge he** of a headache, so i guess the inside compartment will not spin. or else it is not manned, or else the little green men just have a different biology.

also the trajectory will never be straight. think of a frisbee, or even a spinning tennis ball. it curves.

OK, let me pose a question here. Do you really think there would be widespread panic if the US Gov announced that there were alien visitors?
Why? i would love to hear some thoughts on that.

SoBad
09-29-2007, 09:12 PM
sobad, your plate/flying saucer sighting had me thinking. there has to be some merit to that design cos frisbees and discuses are built like that. and they do spin v fast.
such a device does rely on an atmosphere, i cannot imagine a frisbee or discus working in an airless environmet like the Moon or outer space, so it cannot be used for interstellar travel, only for sight-seeing once you've reached a planet.
did you say it was spinning, or am i imagining that ?

some smart dudes will point out that the guys inside are going to have one huge he** of a headache, so i guess the inside compartment will not spin. or else it is not manned, or else the little green men just have a different biology.

also the trajectory will never be straight. think of a frisbee, or even a spinning tennis ball. it curves.

OK, let me pose a question here. Do you really think there would be widespread panic if the US Gov announced that there were alien visitors?
Why? i would love to hear some thoughts on that.

Yes, regarding the plate-shaped spaceship, it was definitely rotating. The sighting was at night time, and the object had red and green lights around its edge, which made it easy to see that the object was rotating. The rotational velocity was nothing like a frisbee though – I would estimate it was 20rpm at most. So I would guess that even assuming that the inside was rotating along and the travelers were similar to humans in their tolerance for that kind of acceleration, it would have been reasonably comfortable.

As a further thought about similarity to frisbee and travel through airless environment, because of the low rotational velocity, it would appear that aerodynamics are different in that the ship would not be relying on air friction for maintaining its course/altitude the way a frisbee might. However, based on everything that has been discussed, I agree that the plate shaped ship was probably for local travel only.

Now let me read your essay on sapience more thoroughly, and I will try to reflect in the “Supernatural” thread, since it is less closely aligned with the UFO’s per se.

P.S. I don’t see why USG announcing alien visitors would cause a panic – the poor souls that watch TV for news would probably get excited if anything.

malakas
09-29-2007, 09:35 PM
sobad, i dont know what your reading tastes are like, but if you can, read Arthur C Clarke's short stories: Guardian Angel, and Sentinel.
they are simple but beautiful.

Yes,they are great.
I enjoyed the most the Rama series though.:) I must have read them 2-3 times.:p

mucat
09-29-2007, 09:43 PM
sobad, your plate/flying saucer sighting had me thinking. there has to be some merit to that design cos frisbees and discuses are built like that. and they do spin v fast.
such a device does rely on an atmosphere, i cannot imagine a frisbee or discus working in an airless environmet like the Moon or outer space, so it cannot be used for interstellar travel, only for sight-seeing once you've reached a planet.
did you say it was spinning, or am i imagining that ?

some smart dudes will point out that the guys inside are going to have one huge he** of a headache, so i guess the inside compartment will not spin. or else it is not manned, or else the little green men just have a different biology.

also the trajectory will never be straight. think of a frisbee, or even a spinning tennis ball. it curves.

OK, let me pose a question here. Do you really think there would be widespread panic if the US Gov announced that there were alien visitors?
Why? i would love to hear some thoughts on that.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-97057222894136590

We might have to think outside the box.

ananda
09-29-2007, 10:00 PM
P.S. I don’t see why USG announcing alien visitors would cause a panic – the poor souls that watch TV for news would probably get excited if anything.

so i would like to throw open this question (i hope i am not hijacking this thread):

if the US GOV (and others) are aware of UFO's and aliens, and have been in contact, THEN WHY THE SECRECY ???

what is it that our politicians are "mature" enough to handle but we are not?

as i even start thinking, i know this is vast ... many assumptions have to be made for any line of thinking.

Let's assume we are an advanced AND MATURE race that can travel gr8 distances. We spot a growing civilization. We understand that contacting them will affect their growth and evolution. Thus, the first priority is: we must NOT let them know we exist. At least not until they have matured themselves and grown out of their need/desire to destroy, ravage, colonize etc.

I assume we have reached a stage where we do NOT need their help. We have everything we want. Why would we still try to meet them? Only thing that comes to mind is: maybe they need our help, in order to survive.
i don't imagine Earth really needs technology help to survive. Any advanced race will NOT try to influence our tech or mental growth.

The only reason now i can think why some race would try to contact us is becos they are convinced we are destroying ourselves. They will want to offer minimum help or intervention. And letting the entire planet know of their existence certainly will cause a lot of "disturbance". i do not mean panic. Like people in every walk of life wanting their issues solved by these advanced aliens. Every country, every group demanding an audience.... I do see a lot of impact.

Consider the stage we actually are at. If an advanced race were to share technology with us, what would happen ? We could destroy ourselves faster. We could try to destroy them, too. I assume they are a peaceful race that have NOT known violence for a long long time. They don't want us affecting their civilization either.

The pattern that seems to emerge in my mind is that (a) an advanced race would not want to tamper with the growth of a growing one, unless absolutely critical to the survival of the lesser (Earth)
(b) if it does interact, the interaction would have to be minimal in all senses, including least number of people aware that contact has happened.
(c) they may avoid technology esp if the less advanced race is prone to war. So then what kind of influence would they try to have ???

any thoughts?

ananda
09-29-2007, 10:41 PM
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-97057222894136590

We might have to think outside the box.
mucat, i appreciate your throwing in the multi-dimensional card. frankly, it goes way above me. Has any serious thinking been actually achieved in this respect that has reached somewhere? I mean some theories emerging, or some scenarios, or is it just very speculative and iffy, like what i have suggested.

i must confess i lean towards the left-brained analytical, thinking-in-a-line kind of guy, no out of box (out of body, ha ha) or lateral thinking has ever emerged from me.

if a multi-dim creature sees us, he will see us in as many dims as he has. he will possibly see that we are not aware of the other dims. but that means we are also multi-dimensional. that also seems to suggest that you cannot have creatures existing in higher dims that do not exist in lower ones. So we should see them 3-d at least. Valid assumption?

Another card that can be thrown in is parallel universes. We could have some civiliztion living right here and now, but both universes unaware. But then someone breaks through. Oh, Phillip Pullman wrote 3 books i enjoyed (i admit they are more kid books, but i loved them) on this theme. Amber Spyglass.

But i fear such things really open up too many possibilities, that sort of go out of hand ? at least to me, it becomes too speculative.

Mucat, i suggest you throw in some scenarios as well.

malakas
09-29-2007, 10:54 PM
so i would like to throw open this question (i hope i am not hijacking this thread):

if the US GOV (and others) are aware of UFO's and aliens, and have been in contact, THEN WHY THE SECRECY ???

what is it that our politicians are "mature" enough to handle but we are not??
It's not about maturity.It's about controlling the masses

as i even start thinking, i know this is vast ... many assumptions have to be made for any line of thinking.

Let's assume we are an advanced AND MATURE race that can travel gr8 distances. We spot a growing civilization. We understand that contacting them will affect their growth and evolution. Thus, the first priority is: we must NOT let them know we exist. At least not until they have matured themselves and grown out of their need/desire to destroy, ravage, colonize etc.
that's too many assumptions.But even if they are advanced,you can't judge mature by the human standards.If we ourselves aren't a mature race,which I am sure many agree,how we know what mature means and how a mature race is supposed to act.
Secondly,they possibly not only only avoid to affect our evolution and growth but in the contrast seek to.(See the Childhood's End by Clarke for example).What if that advanced race,perceives our evolution and growth going the "wrong" way.They probably would like to shepherd us into the right way.
Then,I think you overestimate the importance of the human race.In the miriads of stars and planets,earth and life on earth is no more important than a grain of sand in the desert.Why would an advanced and probably powerful race,pay so much attention or treat us that carefully,that they will wait for us to grown out of our need to destroy.Which can(and imo will) never happen afterall.
It's,and I judge again by my human standards,but I believe that's a good analogy,as a zoolist,stumbles upon a closed(?) independent ecology of lets say a underground cave.Where there are hundreds of new species of insects,microbes,parasites.Among the thousands of the new species,you can understand that not so much attention and care is paid to each separate species,which importance is mostly limited for taxonomical purproses.


I assume we have reached a stage where we do NOT need their help. We have everything we want. Why would we still try to meet them? Only thing that comes to mind is: maybe they need our help, in order to survive.
i don't imagine Earth really needs technology help to survive. Any advanced race will NOT try to influence our tech or mental growth.

How can you say that,when there is world hunger,pandemias,world-wide wars and colossal ecological destructions going on,right now or/and just the last century?

The only reason now i can think why some race would try to contact us is becos they are convinced we are destroying ourselves. They will want to offer minimum help or intervention. And letting the entire planet know of their existence certainly will cause a lot of "disturbance". i do not mean panic. Like people in every walk of life wanting their issues solved by these advanced aliens. Every country, every group demanding an audience.... I do see a lot of impact.
I do believe that in such a case,humanity will be united as never before in recorded history.When there is an external possible danger,every nation unites and old disputes are even for the time being forgotten-a tool many politics use even nowadays to manipulate the masses.;) Example-my country last month.

Consider the stage we actually are at. If an advanced race were to share technology with us, what would happen ? We could destroy ourselves faster. We could try to destroy them, too. I assume they are a peaceful race that have NOT known violence for a long long time. They don't want us affecting their civilization either.
Well,every appliance comes with an instruction book and a terms of use.
(again,see the childhood's end.)

The pattern that seems to emerge in my mind is that (a) an advanced race would not want to tamper with the growth of a growing one, unless absolutely critical to the survival of the lesser (Earth)
(b) if it does interact, the interaction would have to be minimal in all senses, including least number of people aware that contact has happened.
(c) they may avoid technology esp if the less advanced race is prone to war. So then what kind of influence would they try to have ???

any thoughts?

And, what if the advanced race is itself prone to war?It's a law of nature,the biggest fish eats the smaller.

Also,I make this discussion only for philological purproses as I don't believe in aliens on earth.:)

mucat
09-29-2007, 10:56 PM
I have doubt about other advanced beings are always peaceful. We have been advancing for quite sometimes now, but we are basically cavemen with better caves and bigger weapons.

Maybe Earth is more like a national park that's under some form of intergalactic protection.

Of course, they do want to sample some of the local game animals for dinner from time to time...but I can never find an explanation for probing the ....maybe it is similiar to stuffing the turkey...

malakas
09-29-2007, 10:57 PM
Another card that can be thrown in is parallel universes. We could have some civiliztion living right here and now, but both universes unaware. But then someone breaks through. Oh, Phillip Pullman wrote 3 books i enjoyed (i admit they are more kid books, but i loved them) on this theme. Amber Spyglass.

haha,great books.I heard they were going to make a movie?:) Probably the ending,changed their minds though.:p it isn't something christian america would welcome in its theatres.hehe

ananda
09-29-2007, 11:35 PM
I have doubt about other advanced beings are always peaceful. We have been advancing for quite sometimes now, but we are basically cavemen with better caves and bigger weapons.

i totally agree. but it is likely that to be able to progress to the point where we can travel large distances, we will have to pool in all our resources whic we currently waste in fighting each other.

it is purely wishful, positive thinking on my part that all highly advanced civilization are peaceful. if not, they would first destroy themselves with their technology.

otoh, if there were millions of civilzations around, it is possible that just one succeeds in intergalactic travel while being destructive ??

as far as your other interesting remark of the Earth being a "national park" of some kind, yes, there are many many scenarios. another is that we are the aliens. another one was that intelligence was introduced by ET's. another thought is that all life in the universe is related, came from one seed.

Not only is the universe stranger than we imagine, it is stranger than we can imagine. -- Sir Arthur Eddington (1882-1944), English astronomer

ananda
10-01-2007, 04:08 AM
sobad, you may find this of some interest.
http://www.ufoevidence.org/documents/doc116.htm
it talks of saucers too.

Fate Archer
10-05-2011, 06:09 AM
Here's another disclosure initiative, from last year, regarding a very important issue: NUCLEAR WEAPONS and their INTEREST in it.

(It's a 1 and a half hour depoiment but extremely interesting, and dare I say, important information)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3jUU4Z8QdHI

Again, many retired officials from nuclear weapons sites were reporting some kind of contact, some even speculate on some kind of message trying to be delivered. The general opinion of the officials is that they, whoever they are, are trying to warn our human race of the dangers of carrying such weapons and/or possibly intimidate us in the process.

Lots of points that have been discussed in this thread are touched upon in this video. Amazing information, I definitely recommend it. It's the kind of stuff that the media and governments would never expose, since the main reaction is generally some level of panic and uneasiness from the masses.

Anyway, take your own conclusions. I will stick with the idea that most of the officials side with: we're playing with fire. If these reports are true (and the whole thing looks very credible, if you ask me), then it's exactly like they said, if they wanted, they could have taken over much earlier.

--

On another note, I have yet to see the whole presentation that the OP posted, though I've seen some snippets.

In 2007 (when this thread was created) and again this year, through the freedom of information act and other laws, some files have been made accessible to the public domain on some agencies. The FBI has released some files here.

http://vault.fbi.gov/UFO

They mention Rosewell on at least one of these files, where the FBI did a side investigation with the Air force at the time.

There has also been a petition directed at the white house for some type of full disclosure of the subject as well (last I heard it reached more than the 5000 votes to be proceeded).

I have the impression that we're being conditioned to some gradual disclosure.
As time passes, more files are gonna be made avaiable, as they were in other countries and more is still to come.

It's just the tip of the Iceberg, but it seems our perception of this phenomenon is evolving.

On a side note, I wonder if the mass of invasion and contact themed movies and documentaries that have been so widespread on different medias over the last few years are also a part of this gradual process. Yeah, sounds like a conspiracy, but it makes sense considering that IF some kind of contact happens on the near future, the possible trauma is reduced, given that the subject is more or less matured on the collective subcounscious of the masses.

sureshs
10-05-2011, 06:19 AM
UFOs are like the Yeti/Sasquatch/Bigfoot/Abominable Snowman.

We want them to exist.

Fearsome Forehand
10-05-2011, 08:15 AM
Way to revive a 4 year old (wacky) thread. :shock:

Some extraterrestrials travel billions of miles to come here and don't even stop to get out meet the locals and have a soda?
Seems unlikely. Not enough evidence to convince me that we have been visited.

I wonder what happened to Phil? He was a regular poster here for a long time.
Hasn't posted in almost 2 years (unless he changed his username to something else.)

Fate Archer
10-05-2011, 10:50 AM
Way to revive a 4 year old (wacky) thread. :shock:

Some extraterrestrials travel billions of miles to come here and don't even stop to get out meet the locals and have a soda?
Seems unlikely. Not enough evidence to convince me that we have been visited.

I wonder what happened to Phil? He was a regular poster here for a long time.
Hasn't posted in almost 2 years (unless he changed his username to something else.)

Or maybe they did. Have you ever heard of the Ancient Astronaut theory?

Anyway, this concept of visitors acting like "take me to your leader" after landing right in front of the white house, is too hollywoodian or idealized of a scenario to happen. If visitors are indeed visiting us, then many scenarios can be hypothesized, but for what we're considering here, either they are exploring the space in their own self interest and come with their own purpose, which would be indifferent with our acknowledgement of their existence (they might be on a safari just to study and observe) or maybe they're already studying and exploring some of our own resources on earth; or as an advanced civilization that seeks our well being, they are advanced and moral enough to comprehend that their precocious revealing would cause more harm than good to our society (I'm talking about psychological trauma and possible panic from the masses, rupture of the status quo, social and economical disrupture, religious implications, etc..).

And to their own well being, the more appropriate aproach would be to wait until our race can reach a more advanced state of diplomacy and peace in our society. Even though we're not warring on a global scale, we still have many social and diplomatic problems with our own species, so this cautious approach would make sense coming from their own perspective as well.

Again, all these subjects were covered on the video I just posted.

As for the evidence, well, if you care enough to not just scoff at the thought of these "whacky" subjects, take a look at some of the numerous documents that are being added to some of these credible sources. The video that the OP and I just posted are great material, testimonials of people that have been there and seem credible enough at their reports. I already indexed some files from the FBI vault as well. There is enough body of evidence to prove that the phenomenom exists (UFO's, at the very least).

--

@suresh, Do you live in the US? Are you from Washington (state) or are you acquaintance or know some people who live there? I heard there is an enourmous concentration of sighting in that area, so people around there could be very familiar with what you're talking about.

Anyway, the Patterson/Gimlin footage has yet to be proven as a hoax (most specialists think it's either inconclusive material or a non-human creature), so ruling out a cryptid on North America is not the best conclusion either.

--

By the way (and not refering to anyone in particular), I don't have any problems with skepticism, as long as it's grounded, balanced skepticism not the kind of fanatical irrationality that some close-minded people often display. With that said, some people just look away without giving any second thought. This disregarding attitude is not commendable and what should be scoffed at is the close-mindedness of some individuals that do not even consider the possibility of some of these "whacky" subjects actually being real.
It's much worse being ignorant than being open to possibilities, however strange they might be.

Just wanted to point out that a more academic, non-biased, non-ridiculling attitude towards the subject is the way to tackle it, with regards to their existence or non-existance.

Also, for those who are shy or are afraid to share their opinion or maybe even experiences (fearing being ridiculed or whatever), there is nothing wrong about talking about UFO's or the likes.

I like to think that we're heading to a time where the ones that are going to be scoffed at will be the die-hard skeptics and the debunkers who think they know any better.