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View Full Version : Attention 90 square club-why?


Japanese Maple
09-28-2007, 05:52 AM
Presently playing with iPrestige 98 loaded with lead tape and considering switching to 90/93 head size.
All-court 4.75 player, were power is not an issue. Besides a smaller head being less powerful, what else could I possibly gain by switching-better placement and spin on serve, faster racquet speed, better manueverability on volleys, ect. What do you believe would be the biggest advantage?

VGP
09-28-2007, 05:57 AM
Demo and use what you want for what you wanna get out of the game.....

For me, I like a more "compact" feel as opposed to more "string" feel, does that make sense?

....4.75?

MichaelChang
09-28-2007, 06:02 AM
4.99 as he meant to say :) (almost 5)

Japanese Maple
09-28-2007, 06:18 AM
Demo and use what you want for what you wanna get out of the game.....

For me, I like a more "compact" feel as opposed to more "string" feel, does that make sense?

....4.75?
VGP-I understand the more "compact" feel you desire-how does that impact playability for you-racquet speed, better spin potential,pinpoint accuracy on serves and groundstrokes,ect.

haveheart
09-28-2007, 07:14 AM
For me the biggest difference/advantage with playing with a mid is the extra distance between the hand and the sweet spot for the same length racquet. This provides extra reach, more torque, and more pinpoint control with less effort (for the advanced player). Of course, you could get an extra long racquet for a larger head, but then now many other variables have changed such as increased swingweight.

goosala
09-28-2007, 08:26 AM
Faster racquet speed on serves.

In D Zone
09-28-2007, 08:47 AM
I prefer the mid but there were days where I feel that I'm off with my strokes mostly because I am tired from playing the day before. Then I switch to mid plus. (RDS002 TOur or Mp Tour 1 Mid +)

Why Mid? It makes me focus on my game more; playing with smaller headsize you have to be technically dead one - footwork, racquet preparation, the swing and follow thru. I enjoy the raw feeling of playing mid, everything you do with the racquet comes from your own power.

It is much easier playing a midplus because it offers you better power, but I noticed midplus offer less manuverability and control especially for an all court player like me.
As for advantages for playing mid vs Midplus .... well, it all boills down to preferences.

keithchircop
09-28-2007, 09:56 AM
biggest advantage: low power. you can hit hard and flat ==> the ball will stay in. there are MPs and OSs that are as low powered but you don't get the same control of a mid, especially of an 18x20. you can hit 80mph forehands if you can supply the power, you just have to work harder.

biggest disadvantage: more mishits if you hit with loadsa topsin.

if you use an eastern forehand and hit pretty flat i suggest you demo a 90.

MichaelChang
09-28-2007, 10:02 AM
my feel on a small head size such as PS85 is, if you hit it right (ie, on the sweet spot), you can obviously feel the reward, it will be a beautiful strike. if you are off the sweet spot, yuk. the mids actually pushed me to improve my hits.

AndrewD
09-28-2007, 10:41 AM
In itself a midsize, or any racquet, won't give you better placement and spin on serve, faster racquet speed, better manueverability on volleys, ect. In truth, placement is determined by control, a larger hitting area will give you more spin, swingweight and static weight will determine racquet head speed and manoevrability. A midsize, by virtue of being a midsize, won't improve any of those factors. However, it does have a feel which is quite distinct from any 95sq+ frame and THAT is the advantage of a midsize racquet.

quest01
09-28-2007, 10:45 AM
In itself a midsize, or any racquet, won't give you better placement and spin on serve, faster racquet speed, better manueverability on volleys, ect. In truth, placement is determined by control, a larger hitting area will give you more spin, swingweight and static weight will determine racquet head speed and manoevrability. A midsize, by virtue of being a midsize, won't improve any of those factors. However, it does have a feel which is quite distinct from any 95sq+ frame and THAT is the advantage of a midsize racquet.

I agree. It doesnt make any sense to say that a smaller headsize gives you all these advantages over a midplus. I would also agree that a larger hitting area gives you more spin and power.

superstition
09-28-2007, 10:52 AM
I have found that I make far fewer unforced errors with a Prostaff 85 than with any oversize I've tried. I hit relatively flat and use an Eastern and Extreme Eastern grip. In order to control an oversize, I'd probably have to use a much higher string tension.

Tennisplayer92
09-28-2007, 11:03 AM
keep in mind that feel is important. you can swing away with ALL the power and spin you want but most definitely you cannot rule feel out. to some if not most players the way they play can affect their psychological game by the way they feel the ball. therefore giving a better result. plus you simply cant compare the feel of a 85-93 sq inch racquet to anything else.

ShiroRm
09-28-2007, 11:59 AM
Better feedback/feel about your technique/game, more control, better 1hd backhand. If you keep yourself fit and stay focused during play, they help you to develop a more conscious (technically, tactically) and possibly, varied game

BounceHitBounceHit
09-28-2007, 12:12 PM
Mids are beloved to some of us for complex, difficult to explain reasons. For me, it comes down to a simple question: with what frame do I play my best tennis? Clearly I may make some SHOTS better w/ a MP or OS. However on the whole I play better (and win more often) with a mid. Case closed. ;)

Those who will extol the virtues of MP or OS frames often cite the fact that 'the best players in the world almost exclusively use a MP or OS frame'. To this I say, "look in the mirror, do you see David Nalbandian? Or Rafa? Or Tommy Haas?' :)

In short, your recreational game has NOTHING to do with a pro level player's game, or his frame. ;)

CC

sureshs
09-28-2007, 12:18 PM
Mids are beloved to some of us for complex, difficult to explain reasons. For me, it comes down to a simple question: with what frame do I play my best tennis? Clearly I may make some SHOTS better w/ a MP or OS. However on the whole I play better (and win more often) with a mid. Case closed. ;)

Those who will extol the virtues of MP or OS frames often cite the fact that 'the best players in the world almost exclusively use a MP or OS frame'. To this I say, "look in the mirror, do you see David Nalbandian? Or Rafa? Or Tommy Haas?' :)

In short, your recreational game has NOTHING to do with a pro level player's game, or his frame. ;)

CC

But no junior or college players who are in between us and the pros use it either. So the analogy is totally incorrect - trying to prove something from a negative.

MichaelChang
09-28-2007, 12:26 PM
But no junior or college players who are in between us and the pros use it either. So the analogy is totally incorrect - trying to prove something from a negative.

I think what he trying to say is to pick the stick for yourself, not because others (whether pro or not) are mostly using other rackets, which I tend to agree.

sureshs
09-28-2007, 12:36 PM
I think what he trying to say is to pick the stick for yourself, not because others (whether pro or not) are mostly using other rackets, which I tend to agree.

That is not what he is saying. He is saying recreational play has nothing to do with pro play. That statement is completely wrong. There are various levels of recreational play. I know that for at least 3 sports I follow - tennis, table tennis and golf. The better recreational players do follow the trends of the pros. The logic of "I am a worse player than a pro, so I will use equipment even he won't touch" is just perverse.

Klatu Verata Necktie
09-28-2007, 12:36 PM
I love the control I get from my K90, and I have all the power I need. I own a Microgel Radical Pro that doesn't provide me with any more power than the K90, so I have little incentive to switch.

VGP
09-28-2007, 01:04 PM
But no junior or college players who are in between us and the pros use it either. So the analogy is totally incorrect - trying to prove something from a negative.

You mean to tell me that there are NO juniors, NO college players and NO pros out there that sport mids?

Klatu Verata Necktie
09-28-2007, 01:11 PM
You mean to tell me that there are NO juniors, NO college players and NO pros out there that sport mids?

That's right. Also, there aren't any juniors or college players that wear shoes ;)

VGP
09-28-2007, 01:13 PM
The fact that midsize graphite frames are still available for purchase says something about their viability as a product.

Manufacturers wouldn't make them if no one bought them. It can't be just because of Federer or Sampras......

They may be on the way out (i.e. the way of the wood), but as it stands right now they are still good tools for play at any level.

I wouldn't discourage someone from using a midsize just as I wouldn't discourage someone from using any other frame. Just as long as they are enjoying the game and not doing any harm to themselves by using a particular racket.

We all have opinions as to why one racket is "better" than another, but in the end, it comes down to what makes someone feel good about what they use.

For us recreational players, midsize, oversize, midplus, extended length, strings, grips, it's all preferences that help us have fun and somewhat competitive.

For the pros, it's whatever they think will get them the higher paycheck after matchpoint.

keithchircop
09-28-2007, 02:28 PM
I'm tired of people telling me that I'm not SUPPOSED to use a mid before they even ask me a single solitary question about how I play.

"Duh, I don't need to ask... you use a semi-western forehand and you're a topspin monkey like the rest of us!"

Idiots.

Tour 90
09-28-2007, 02:31 PM
control and serves are what I get the most of from my lmp mids.

VS_Power
09-28-2007, 10:17 PM
midsized rackets look the best. thats good enough reason for me

BreakPoint
09-28-2007, 10:28 PM
But no junior or college players who are in between us and the pros use it either. So the analogy is totally incorrect - trying to prove something from a negative.
Maybe these junior and college players are also trying to copy the pros?

BreakPoint
09-28-2007, 10:33 PM
That is not what he is saying. He is saying recreational play has nothing to do with pro play. That statement is completely wrong. There are various levels of recreational play. I know that for at least 3 sports I follow - tennis, table tennis and golf. The better recreational players do follow the trends of the pros. The logic of "I am a worse player than a pro, so I will use equipment even he won't touch" is just perverse.
You miss the point. If YOU are not playing AGAINST other pros or college players, there's NO NEED for you to also use what they use.

If you're not racing against other professional race car drivers, there's no need for you to drive a 600hp race car. Your Toyota Corolla will work for you just fine. That's his point.

Klatu Verata Necktie
09-29-2007, 06:06 AM
"Duh, I don't need to ask... you use a semi-western forehand and you're a topspin monkey like the rest of us!"


I happen to be a semi-western using topspin monkey, and the K90 works suits me just fine ;)

keithchircop
09-29-2007, 09:20 AM
I happen to be a semi-western using topspin monkey, and the K90 works suits me just fine ;)

Unless you're 4.0+, I'm sure loads of people tell you that the racquet is hurting your game. One person less since NBMJ left.

VGP
09-29-2007, 09:28 AM
Frankly speaking, if you're less than a 4.0 does it really matter what racket you're using?

keithchircop
09-29-2007, 09:31 AM
Frankly speaking, if you're less than a 4.0 does it really matter what racket you're using?

IMO no. But stores wouldn't sell their beginner and game-improvement racquets (i.e. 70% of their racquets) if the people found out. And what they say brainwashes people; so much so that someone in the 90 sq in club thread said he couldn't serve inside the service box with a 90 because he's only a 3.0.

Klatu Verata Necktie
09-29-2007, 10:01 AM
Unless you're 4.0+, I'm sure loads of people tell you that the racquet is hurting your game. One person less since NBMJ left.

I play on a 4.5 level. Honestly, I haven't had anyone tell me that I'm using the wrong stick, but it wouldn't bother me much if they did. I try not to let ignorant people get to me ;)

AndrewD
09-29-2007, 10:25 AM
Frankly speaking, if you're less than a 4.0 does it really matter what racket you're using?

If you are playing competition tennis and want to do as well as is possible then yes, it should matter what racquet you use. The best racquet might or might not be a mid.

Personally, I'd really hate to think someone was playing team tennis, where it isn't just about the individual, and not giving themselves and, subsequently, their team the best possible chance to win their matches. I'd also hate to think people were of the opinion that a mid/oversize/midplus/players/tweeners/etc racquet was always the right one for them. If you want to remain competitive (quite different if you just play for fun) you should re-evaluate your equipment needs on a regular basis. As we get older that probably means re-evaluating on an annual basis and keeping an open mind.

BounceHitBounceHit
09-29-2007, 10:43 AM
But no junior or college players who are in between us and the pros use it either. So the analogy is totally incorrect - trying to prove something from a negative.

Just for the record, I happen to know numerous top juniors and DI college level players personally. And some of them do, in fact, use mids. ;) In fact I posted a while back about having a very enjoyable hit with a MUCHO talented DI female who told me, "I can't use any frame other than the K90 because I don't feel like I have control over the ball." True enough, she hit hard and flat to the corners and was a very fit, athletic young lady. Still, I think you see my point.

This, however, is not the point. The point I am trying to make is simple: you are you, and a pro (or college player, or top junior, or another rec player, etc, etc, etc).......well they are NOT you. ;) Specifically you have YOUR body type, flexibility, biomechanics, etc and they have THEIRS. Perhaps even more importantly you were trained by YOUR instructors or coaches of YOUR era, and probably emulated the games of the greats of YOUR time. Current top college players (and pros) grew up in a different era, w/ different surfaces, balls, tools (frames), fitness techniques, and coaching available to them. You were molded by YOUR environment, they by THEIRS. Any wonder you might choose different frames (or playing styles)? ;)

CC

BounceHitBounceHit
09-29-2007, 10:47 AM
If you want to remain competitive (quite different if you just play for fun) you should re-evaluate your equipment needs on a regular basis. As we get older that probably means re-evaluating on an annual basis and keeping an open mind.

Well said. ;)

I think the problems (at least on this board) arise when someone does just that and ends up with frame 'X' and posts his/her success. It seems there are people lined up around their computers just dying to tell them why they are wrong to choose 'X' and would be SO much better off with 'Y'. That, to me at least, seems a bit silly, for the reasons I have outlined above.

Best,

CC

BounceHitBounceHit
09-29-2007, 10:50 AM
Oh, and BTW, no one has EVER come up to me on the court and said something like, 'wow, you could be pretty good if you just dumped that frame and picked up a 'fill in the blank'. That stuff just doesn't happen in real life. ONLY in cyberspace. If you aren't buying this, just Samster and Bolt how I hit with a 85 si Cayman TNT. ;)

CC

Bubba
09-29-2007, 10:59 AM
If you are playing competition tennis and want to do as well as is possible then yes, it should matter what racquet you use. The best racquet might or might not be a mid.

Personally, I'd really hate to think someone was playing team tennis, where it isn't just about the individual, and not giving themselves and, subsequently, their team the best possible chance to win their matches. I'd also hate to think people were of the opinion that a mid/oversize/midplus/players/tweeners/etc racquet was always the right one for them. If you want to remain competitive (quite different if you just play for fun) you should re-evaluate your equipment needs on a regular basis. As we get older that probably means re-evaluating on an annual basis and keeping an open mind.

Find the best racquet for your game... and use it. Period.

PackardDell
09-29-2007, 11:06 AM
Frankly speaking, if you're less than a 4.0 does it really matter what racket you're using?

imo no as long as it isn't a big oversize granny racquet

fuzz nation
09-29-2007, 11:21 AM
That is not what he is saying. He is saying recreational play has nothing to do with pro play. That statement is completely wrong. There are various levels of recreational play. I know that for at least 3 sports I follow - tennis, table tennis and golf. The better recreational players do follow the trends of the pros. The logic of "I am a worse player than a pro, so I will use equipment even he won't touch" is just perverse.

Perverse?!

C'mon now, that's a little heavy... You could offer your own argument on the flipside of the coin and keep the discussion open.

I'm happy to add that my game indeed has nothing to do with the pros (ok, so I play on the same size court) - I went to the Open last month and also watched Fabrice Santoro win Newport in July. Yikes! I refuse to pack that many of the same racquet in my bag! At least that's the biggest difference I can see...

Recreational players can afford to play with whatever quirky gear that they enjoy, but in heavier competition, especially for the pros, they don't have to enjoy the feel of their less conventional frame. They have to eat. It's a job and they have to "enjoy" success or go do something else.

Personal enjoyment of the game is a luxury available to everyone way over at the recreational end of the spectrum, but the priorities change on the way toward the other end. You guys seem to be camped in two portions of the same spectrum. I hope the pros and the heavier amateur competitors predominantly enjoy themselves out there, but I think we can agree that they can't do it these days with an old Jack Kramer, even if they feel like buttah.

VS_Power
09-29-2007, 11:48 AM
i used a mid since i was in the 3.0 level

i was in the market to buy the racket that would help me improve the fastest

i still believe a mid was a good choice


ya'll make it sound like 5 square inches on a racket make such a big deal. i can't even tell the difference between a mid and a 95 when i put them on top of each other. they look exactly the same. just use whatever racket you like, instead of spending time switching around choosing rackets and getting out of sync. tennis is so much a mind game that the 5 square inches is hurting certain people, who would otherwise excel with a mid, only in the mind. honestly, if all rackets looked the same but kept their properties, we'd all be confused as hell

rosenstar
09-29-2007, 12:03 PM
use whatever you like, that's it.

If you're not racing against other professional race car drivers, there's no need for you to drive a 600hp race car. Your Toyota Corolla will work for you just fine. That's his point.

now this statement is COMPLETE BULL*****!!!! nothin better then driving 100+ mph on an open road...

sargeinaz
09-29-2007, 01:43 PM
use whatever you like, that's it.



now this statement is COMPLETE BULL*****!!!! nothin better then driving 100+ mph on an open road...

You can do 100+ in a corolla too you know.
________
LovelyWendie99 (http://www.lovelywendie99.com/)

saram
09-29-2007, 01:45 PM
The Prestige Mid line has precision accuracy and control. Power is there if you want it. You will not have the same spin as the 98, but using a 17g string makes up for it.

Bolt
09-29-2007, 04:21 PM
Oh, and BTW, no one has EVER come up to me on the court and said something like, 'wow, you could be pretty good if you just dumped that frame and picked up a 'fill in the blank'. That stuff just doesn't happen in real life. ONLY in cyberspace. If you aren't buying this, just Samster and Bolt how I hit with a 85 si Cayman TNT. ;)

CC

Craig hits like a freakin monster with that frame. And the K90. And the tricked out Asian K90. And the ... well you get the idea. ;)

samster
09-29-2007, 06:44 PM
I have a feeling Craig can beat me soundly even with a wood frame. Nuff said.

BreakPoint
09-29-2007, 08:20 PM
now this statement is COMPLETE BULL*****!!!! nothin better then driving 100+ mph on an open road...
FYI, those 600hp race cars cruise at over 200mph. Would you go that fast on your local 55mph limit highway even if your car could do it? I highly doubt it.

You can do 100+ in a corolla too you know.
Exactly! ;)

Therefore, there's no need for you to drive a 600hp race car as your daily car.

fishuuuuu
09-29-2007, 08:25 PM
FYI, those 600hp race cars cruise at over 200mph. Would you go that fast on your local 55mph limit highway even if your car could do it? I highly doubt it.


Exactly! ;)

Therefore, there's no need for you to drive a 600hp race car as your daily car.

Haha BP, maybe they're compensating for something? Or I'm just looking for trouble.

Klatu Verata Necktie
09-30-2007, 05:35 AM
Therefore, there's no need for you to drive a 600hp race car as your daily car.

The only problem with your logic is using the word "need". Tennis is not an endeavor we pursue out of need, but rather, out of a quest for pleasure. A 600hp race car is a luxury that most of us cannot afford. Tennis racquets, on the other hand, are affordable luxuries. We can choose to use the equivalent of a 600hp race car if we choose.

I probably would drive over 200mph to the grocery store if I could afford the ride and had diplomatic immunity against speeding tickets.

AceofBase
09-30-2007, 06:20 AM
To me i have the Yonex RDX500 mid and only use it for an all court or when i play someone that is an all court player too, just to have a better game play. And i have the Babolat Aero Strike midplus and use that when im out of pace or play more defense like Nadal. And i also have a Prince Triple Threat Graphite OS, use it as a baseliner and would use it to play against a baseliner to get a better game and see who's better! To me the mid size you would probably have a hard time with a fast hard hitter baseliner that has a Oversize racket or Midplus.

nickarnold2000
09-30-2007, 06:50 AM
Do these kinds of threads actuallly solve anything? I think the poster who said to "keep an open mind" and keep evaluating your current racket needs, hit the nail right on the head. I use the RDS 001 90 now but if I feel that it's hindering me in any way, I'll ditch it quickly(well, hopefully sell!). In tournament play, nobody cares what stick you're using but everybody cares about winning so play with what helps you win!

Klatu Verata Necktie
09-30-2007, 09:05 AM
Do these kinds of threads actually solve anything? I think the poster who said to "keep an open mind" and keep evaluating your current racket needs, hit the nail right on the head. I use the RDS 001 90 now but if I feel that it's hindering me in any way, I'll ditch it quickly(well, hopefully sell!). In tournament play, nobody cares what stick you're using but everybody cares about winning so play with what helps you win!

That is true. No one will be impressed with your stick if you aren't performing well with it. There is a certain macho factor that informs some individuals, and leads them to use equipment that is not appropriate for them.

The same macho factor appears in the jazz guitar community, where some players use heavy, thick strings in order to impress members of chat communities.

Personally, I began using the K90 when I purchased one as a Rodger Federer souvenir. I intended to continue using the Microgel Radical Pro, but I fell in love with the K90 the first time I took it for a test drive.

Answering the question of "why" a 90 head size, my answer is simply "control".

OrangeOne
09-30-2007, 09:15 AM
Oh, and BTW, no one has EVER come up to me on the court and said something like, 'wow, you could be pretty good if you just dumped that frame and picked up a 'fill in the blank'. That stuff just doesn't happen in real life. ONLY in cyberspace.

Equally it's only in cyberspace.. perhaps even only on THESE BOARDS, that you see mids being recommended / supported for use by new or lower graded players.

No tennis store / experienced pro who understands racquets that I know in 'real life' would likely recommend a mid to anyone below 4.5, on here there is a whole raft of people who would do so, or at least support the use thereof.

BreakPoint
09-30-2007, 09:23 AM
The only problem with your logic is using the word "need". Tennis is not an endeavor we pursue out of need, but rather, out of a quest for pleasure. A 600hp race car is a luxury that most of us cannot afford. Tennis racquets, on the other hand, are affordable luxuries. We can choose to use the equivalent of a 600hp race car if we choose.
But that's not the point. The point is if you're not competing against the pros, why do you need to use what the pros use? If you play very well and can win with a racquet that pros do not use against the people that you normally play with, why would you need to have something more or different?

I probably would drive over 200mph to the grocery store if I could afford the ride and had diplomatic immunity against speeding tickets.
I highly doubt it. If you drove at 200mph on city streets or normal highways instead of a race track, you'd be dead in no time.

OrangeOne
09-30-2007, 09:30 AM
The car analogy is a bad one, but i'm going to run with it...

IF you were invited onto a track, to race against other non-professional drivers, would you take a corolla? Nope.

IF you were needing to get to the shops and back quickly, would you take a 80 year old coach-car? Nope.

The point is that you want something that let's you compete on a level playing field with the person you're competing against. If people find a mid lets them do that, fantastic, a MP, great, an OS, excellent.

BounceHitBounceHit
09-30-2007, 09:32 AM
Equally it's only in cyberspace.. perhaps even only on THESE BOARDS, that you see mids being recommended / supported for use by new or lower graded players.

No tennis store / experienced pro who understands racquets that I know in 'real life' would likely recommend a mid to anyone below 4.5, on here there is a whole raft of people who would do so, or at least support the use thereof.


I agree. ;) In fact, I addressed this in some detail in the original 'review' that started the K90 thread.

So, once more (with feeling!): I've said time and again that the K90 (and other midsize 'players' frames) TYPICALLY, ie NOT ALWAYS, but TYPICALLY, is/are best suited for players with long, fast, well grooved strokes. Such players are USUALLY found at the 4.5 and higher levels.

BTW, at the 4.5 and above levels, players typically 'know' their game and what works best for them. They rarely need the advice of a pro, and when they ask it the usual response is going to be 'hit a bunch of frames and see what you like best'. ;)

CC

BounceHitBounceHit
09-30-2007, 09:34 AM
The point is that you want something that let's you compete on a level playing field with the person you're competing against. If people find a mid lets them do that, fantastic, a MP, great, an OS, excellent.

Well said!!! :) CC

Klatu Verata Necktie
09-30-2007, 10:13 AM
But that's not the point. The point is if you're not competing against the pros, why do you need to use what the pros use? If you play very well and can win with a racquet that pros do not use against the people that you normally play with, why would you need to have something more or different?

I highly doubt it. If you drove at 200mph on city streets or normal highways instead of a race track, you'd be dead in no time.

Even though you don't need to use the racquet, you can use it simply because you like it, or because you want to.

My point about the 600hp car is that the benefit extends beyond the top speed. Cornering will be better, acceleration will be faster, the ride will be more exciting than if you are driving a Corolla. There is no doubt that I would choose the 600hp vehicle over the 100hp one if the price were the same.

Tennis racquets are not equivalent to high performance cars, because anyone can choose to buy and play with a high performance racquet. Few people can purchase and enjoy a high performance vehicle.

herosol
09-30-2007, 03:27 PM
i just think mp and oversizes sort of make rackets look ugly.
i don't know why, but the fact that mids are usually skinnier and more compact just seems better looking.

tho i may be making a exception with the new babolat pure storm tours.

OrangeOne
09-30-2007, 03:40 PM
i just think mp and oversizes sort of make rackets look ugly.
i don't know why, but the fact that mids are usually skinnier and more compact just seems better looking.

tho i may be making a exception with the new babolat pure storm tours.

And how on earth does 'how a racquet looks' matter? Not one iota. Matches are won by hitting balls and structuring points, not by whether a racquet looks good or not.

herosol
09-30-2007, 04:46 PM
And how on earth does 'how a racquet looks' matter? Not one iota. Matches are won by hitting balls and structuring points, not by whether a racquet looks good or not.

it matters a hell lot.
but you're diff. looks probably dont matter to you :]

BreakPoint
09-30-2007, 05:47 PM
My point about the 600hp car is that the benefit extends beyond the top speed. Cornering will be better, acceleration will be faster, the ride will be more exciting than if you are driving a Corolla. There is no doubt that I would choose the 600hp vehicle over the 100hp one if the price were the same.
Wait, just above you said the reason you wanted a 600hp race car was that you wanted to drive 200mph to the grocery store, but now you're talking about cornering? Cars with big V-12 are very heavy which makes them much harder to handle. I'd bet a Mazda Miata or a Honda S2000 with a small 2.0 liter 4-cylinder engine will out-handle any car with a V-12.


Tennis racquets are not equivalent to high performance cars, because anyone can choose to buy and play with a high performance racquet. Few people can purchase and enjoy a high performance vehicle.
The reason most people don't buy Porsches is not due to affordability. Many people who can afford to buy Porsches buy Corollas or Priuses instead because the Porsche either does not meet their needs or does more than they need a car to do. They are perfectly happy with and enjoy driving their Corollas and Priuses. And that's been my point. If you enjoy playing with your current racquet and you win enough to keep you happy and are happy with your results, why do you need to switch to a different racquet just because the pros use them? :confused: Just because the pros use them does not mean that you'll play better with them, does it? Isn't it just as likely that you'll play even worse with them than with your current racquet? That's why I don't think it makes sense to use something just because the pros use it. Your needs and a pro's needs are totally different. I think that was Craig's point from the beginning.

Klatu Verata Necktie
09-30-2007, 06:32 PM
Wait, just above you said the reason you wanted a 600hp race car was that you wanted to drive 200mph to the grocery store, but now you're talking about cornering? Cars with big V-12 are very heavy which makes them much harder to handle. I'd bet a Mazda Miata or a Honda S2000 with a small 2.0 liter 4-cylinder engine will out-handle any car with a V-12.


The reason most people don't buy Porsches is not due to affordability. Many people who can afford to buy Porsches buy Corollas or Priuses instead because the Porsche either does not meet their needs or does more than they need a car to do. They are perfectly happy with and enjoy driving their Corollas and Priuses. And that's been my point. If you enjoy playing with your current racquet and you win enough to keep you happy and are happy with your results, why do you need to switch to a different racquet just because the pros use them? :confused: Just because the pros use them does not mean that you'll play better with them, does it? Isn't it just as likely that you'll play even worse with them than with your current racquet? That's why I don't think it makes sense to use something just because the pros use it. Your needs and a pro's needs are totally different. I think that was Craig's point form the beginning.

You win. I succumb to your superior intellect. All hail Breakpoint, thinker of things, arguer of arguments.

OrangeOne
09-30-2007, 06:47 PM
it matters a hell lot.
but you're diff. looks probably dont matter to you :]

I'm different? Really? I thought I was just another clone like everyone else. Now, i'm nervous....I don't want to be different, quick get me some Breath Cage 7s and the latest colorway from addinikebok! :confused:

But seriously folks, looks don't matter a dime when it comes to a tennis racquet. I'm out there to win, i couldn't care less what the frame looks like. Anyone who places any consideration on the looks of a frame over their ability to hit a ball with it, is, in my humble opinion, either a social hitter - or an idiot.... take your pick.

herosol
09-30-2007, 06:55 PM
well i dont mean just purely make decisions based on looks.
its just that looks would factor in.

plus its not like ive never hit above 90's. i played 03 Tour MP and Babolat Pure Drive as my previous sticks. I just didnt like them as much.

herosol
09-30-2007, 07:07 PM
sorry about a double post: but btw

k90 vs PS 6.0 85

differences?

AndrewD
09-30-2007, 11:12 PM
Anyone who places any consideration on the looks of a frame over their ability to hit a ball with it, is, in my humble opinion, either a social hitter - or an idiot.... take your pick.

I think you should make that your signature LOL

Bubba
10-01-2007, 12:19 AM
You ask -Why? Answer is easy... BECAUSE!

morten
10-01-2007, 12:30 AM
sorry about a double post: but btw

k90 vs PS 6.0 85

differences?

the 85 is a scalpel, the K90 is a club... very different rackets, i prefer the 85 by far.

rosenstar
10-01-2007, 04:50 PM
FYI, those 600hp race cars cruise at over 200mph. Would you go that fast on your local 55mph limit highway even if your car could do it? I highly doubt it.



Ummm yeah I would. If you get a good car and sup it up a bit, add some nitrus, you can win like a couple grand in one nite of racing.

smittysan89
10-01-2007, 05:32 PM
Playing with a mid is mental to me more than anything. They feel like an extension of your arm. Feel leads to control. If you are comfortable with your racquet than you will have more control bottom line. Feel to me IMO is pretty much control. Feel is of course subjective, but as long as you personally feel comfortable hitting your array of shots then the control will be there.

Chauvalito
10-01-2007, 05:44 PM
I prefer the mid but there were days where I feel that I'm off with my strokes mostly because I am tired from playing the day before. Then I switch to mid plus. (RDS002 TOur or Mp Tour 1 Mid +)

Why Mid? It makes me focus on my game more; playing with smaller headsize you have to be technically dead one - footwork, racquet preparation, the swing and follow thru. I enjoy the raw feeling of playing mid, everything you do with the racquet comes from your own power.

It is much easier playing a midplus because it offers you better power, but I noticed midplus offer less manuverability and control especially for an all court player like me.
As for advantages for playing mid vs Midplus .... well, it all boills down to preferences.

I just realized that your avatar is slightly disturbing :)

BreakPoint
10-01-2007, 07:36 PM
Ummm yeah I would. If you get a good car and sup it up a bit, add some nitrus, you can win like a couple grand in one nite of racing.
No you wouldn't. I'm not talking about 199mph. I'm talking at least 200mph+. On local highways, if you hit a pothole at that speed you'd go flying and be flipping the car.

There's no way that you would convince me that you'd go over 200mph on local highways unless you showed me a video of yourself actually doing it. Case closed.

Tennisplayer92
10-01-2007, 07:47 PM
this car analogy sucks... you cant compare racquets with cars. bottomline is some prefer smaller head sizes because of the feel opposed to the oversized/mp lovers because of the extra power, the racquet completes the player to what they prefer.

so all arguing aside (hopefully) i have a minor question. I played served with a hcps 90 and it was AMAZING. i could hit flatter, place it far better and when i wanted kick, it gave me kick opposed to my n6.1 95 16x18 which i pray after every shot that it goes in. (both racquets were strung at the same tension)

so after my story i have 2 questions.
- How is it that i can hit better serves with a 90" racquet?
- Would a K90 give me roughly similiar results given i use the same string and tension?

Klatu Verata Necktie
10-01-2007, 08:13 PM
You miss the point. If YOU are not playing AGAINST other pros or college players, there's NO NEED for you to also use what they use.

If you're not racing against other professional race car drivers, there's no need for you to drive a 600hp race car. Your Toyota Corolla will work for you just fine. That's his point.

This is the post that I initially responded to with what I thought was a congenial response. I took the car analogy because it was what had been presented. I agree that the car analogy is no good, and perhaps it wasn't a good idea to pursue it (although the notion that most people would choose a Corolla over a Porsche if they cost the same is nonsense)

The point was that most of us don't need Big Brother looking over our shoulder making sure that we don't use a racquet we don't "need".

BreakPoint
10-01-2007, 08:22 PM
(although the notion that most people would choose a Corolla over a Porsche if they cost the same is nonsense)

Believe it or not, not everybody wants a Porsche, even if they cost the same as a Corolla. Lots of millionaires buy Priuses or even Corollas even though they could buy 100 Porsches. A Porsche does not appeal to everyone. People have different needs and wants in a motor vehicle. And that's not even considering that you'd probably have to pay 10 times the amount to insure a Porsche as a Corolla.

BreakPoint
10-01-2007, 08:25 PM
this car analogy sucks... you cant compare racquets with cars. bottomline is some prefer smaller head sizes because of the feel opposed to the oversized/mp lovers because of the extra power, the racquet completes the player to what they prefer.

And some people prefer small cars with small engines that are fuel efficient, reliable, easy to drive, with low cost of ownership, etc., while some prefer high-powered sports cars that guzzle gas and cost an arm and a leg to insure.

smittysan89
10-01-2007, 08:40 PM
And some people prefer small cars with small engines that are fuel efficient, reliable, easy to drive, with low cost of ownership, etc., while some prefer high-powered sports cars that guzzle gas and cost an arm and a leg to insure.

I know you are trying to prove a point but seriously can we get off this tangent.

Tennisplayer92
10-01-2007, 08:49 PM
okay i dont want to get into this whole arguement so could we just ignore the first part of my post and focus more on the second half? greatly appreciated (:

smittysan89
10-01-2007, 08:52 PM
okay i dont want to get into this whole arguement so could we just ignore the first part of my post and focus more on the second half? greatly appreciated (:

Your biggest advantage is going to be the extra control and the "feel" of a midsize racquet.

Tennisplayer92
10-01-2007, 08:58 PM
i realized i will benefit from the extra control and feel but would you say the less drag from the racquet's compact size contributes to a faster swing? with this combined with the extra mass opposed to the N6.1 give me extra power? or is this completely irrelevant to physics of a racquet?

BreakPoint
10-01-2007, 09:33 PM
so after my story i have 2 questions.
- How is it that i can hit better serves with a 90" racquet?
- Would a K90 give me roughly similiar results given i use the same string and tension?
The sweetspot of a 90 is further away from your hand than say an OS racquet, so it's almost like giving you a couple of extra inches in height or reach on your serves. It also gives you a longer lever to snap down on your serves. 90's are usually heavier and more headlight which is a great combo for serving. Smaller heads and thinner beams also give you more manueverability and racquet head speed to produce spin or kick on serves. It also allows you to manipulate the angle of the racquet head a bit easier.

Klatu Verata Necktie
10-02-2007, 04:47 AM
Believe it or not, not everybody wants a Porsche, even if they cost the same as a Corolla. Lots of millionaires buy Priuses or even Corollas even though they could buy 100 Porsches. A Porsche does not appeal to everyone. People have different needs and wants in a motor vehicle. And that's not even considering that you'd probably have to pay 10 times the amount to insure a Porsche as a Corolla.

I want to stop talking about cars, but I'm beginning to think that you are misunderstanding me. My argument is that if cost were not an issue, people would purchase the best of anything, including cars. When you inject insurance and gas into the equation, you are injecting cost. Racquets do not work that way. It costs the same to buy and maintain a pro racquet than it does to buy and maintain a beginner's racquet.

rosenstar
10-02-2007, 10:37 AM
No you wouldn't. I'm not talking about 199mph. I'm talking at least 200mph+. On local highways, if you hit a pothole at that speed you'd go flying and be flipping the car.

There's no way that you would convince me that you'd go over 200mph on local highways unless you showed me a video of yourself actually doing it. Case closed.

there's places where people go just to race there own cars. parks with racing tracks. you sign the waiver, find someone to race and place a bet on your car. not hard to do. occasionally you can do it on instates late at night/early in the morning (depending how you look at it).

rosenstar
10-02-2007, 10:46 AM
The reason most people don't buy Porsches is not due to affordability. Many people who can afford to buy Porsches buy Corollas or Priuses instead because the Porsche either does not meet their needs or does more than they need a car to do. They are perfectly happy with and enjoy driving their Corollas and Priuses. And that's been my point. If you enjoy playing with your current racquet and you win enough to keep you happy and are happy with your results, why do you need to switch to a different racquet just because the pros use them? :confused: Just because the pros use them does not mean that you'll play better with them, does it? Isn't it just as likely that you'll play even worse with them than with your current racquet? That's why I don't think it makes sense to use something just because the pros use it. Your needs and a pro's needs are totally different. I think that was Craig's point from the beginning.

People who like sports cars and have the money will buy a porsche, or one of it's competitors. If they have the money, but a porsche doesn't suit their needs, they'll get a lexus or beamer, not a carolla.

as far as racquets go, just buy whatever you like.

I don't think racquets compare well to cars. you buy a pick-up to carry things, sports car to race (or at least drive fast and enjoy it), and a mini van to take your kids to soccer practice. You don't have one racquet for groundstrokes, another for volleying and another for serving... At least I hope not.

to sum it up, I agree with your views on a racquet. but not soo much with the car :-P

sureshs
10-02-2007, 12:41 PM
The sweetspot of a 90 is further away from your hand than say an OS racquet, so it's almost like giving you a couple of extra inches in height or reach on your serves.

You just copied that from post #5.

BreakPoint
10-02-2007, 01:00 PM
I want to stop talking about cars, but I'm beginning to think that you are misunderstanding me. My argument is that if cost were not an issue, people would purchase the best of anything, including cars. When you inject insurance and gas into the equation, you are injecting cost. Racquets do not work that way. It costs the same to buy and maintain a pro racquet than it does to buy and maintain a beginner's racquet.
I don't think you're getting it. To some people, a Corolla or a Prius is the best car in the world, regardless of price. They would buy them over a Porsche even if the Porsche was the same price.

And, yes, racquets do work that way. Some people prefer a $70 racquet over a $250 racquet not because of the price but because they play better with the $70 racquet than with the $250 racquet. They would still buy and use the $70 racquet even if the $250 racquet also costs $70.

There is no such thing as the "best racquet". The best racquet for you may be the worst racquet for someone else. That applies to just about everything, not just racquets. You seem to think everything only revolves around cost. Well, it doesn't. Something is not "better" just because it's more expensive. I learned that a long, long time ago in life.

BreakPoint
10-02-2007, 01:03 PM
there's places where people go just to race there own cars. parks with racing tracks. you sign the waiver, find someone to race and place a bet on your car. not hard to do. occasionally you can do it on instates late at night/early in the morning (depending how you look at it).
Yes, I know but I wasn't talking about race tracks. If you go back to my posts, I was talking about city streets and local highways, neither of which you would dare drive at over 200mph.

I also doubt many amateurs would dare to drive at over 200mph even on a race track. That's why there are professional race car drivers.

BreakPoint
10-02-2007, 01:09 PM
People who like sports cars and have the money will buy a porsche, or one of it's competitors. If they have the money, but a porsche doesn't suit their needs, they'll get a lexus or beamer, not a carolla.

In fact, there are multi-millionaires who prefer to drive cheap cars like a Prius. Larry David is one, and he's probably got like a billion dollars from "Seinfeld". Also, same with Cameron Diaz, who also drives a Prius and probably is worth like $100 million from the salaries they pay her for movies. Neither drive BMW's or Lexuses. Lots of investment bankers at Goldman Saches who are worth hundreds of millions of dollars drive Fords, not Mercedes or BMW's. Just because one has a lot of money does not mean they need to have an expensive car. After all, all cars just get you from point A to point B.

rosenstar
10-02-2007, 01:11 PM
I don't think you're getting it. To some people, a Corolla or a Prius is the best car in the world, regardless of price. They would buy them over a Porsche even if the Porsche was the same price.

And, yes, racquets do work that way. Some people prefer a $70 racquet over a $250 racquet not because of the price but because they play better with the $70 racquet than with the $250 racquet. They would still buy and use the $70 racquet even if the $250 racquet also costs $70.

There is no such thing as the "best racquet". The best racquet for you may be the worst racquet for someone else. That applies to just about everything, not just racquets. You seem to think everything only revolves around cost. Well, it doesn't. Something is not "better" just because it's more expensive. I learned that a long, long time ago in life.

mmmk... I agree with this now

BreakPoint
10-02-2007, 01:12 PM
You just copied that from post #5.
I didn't even read post #5 until just now since you mentioned it.

If you do a search, you'll see I've been saying this already for many years here.

Klatu Verata Necktie
10-02-2007, 01:22 PM
In fact, there are multi-millionaires who prefer to drive cheap cars like a Prius. Larry David is one, and he's probably got like a billion dollars from "Seinfeld". Also, same with Cameron Diaz, who also drives a Prius and probably is worth like $100 million from the salaries they pay her for movies. Neither drive BMW's or Lexuses. Lots of investment bankers at Goldman Saches who are worth hundreds of millions of dollars drive Fords, not Mercedes or BMW's. Just because one has a lot of money does not mean they need to have an expensive car. After all, all cars just get you from point A to point B.

Saying "there is no best racquet" is something I can agree with.

However, using Cameron Diaz and Larry David as examples of people who choose the cheap over the luxurious is not applicable. Those people choose their cars for political reasons. They both drive the Prius (as do the founders of Google), and choose the vehicle to show the rest of us how concerned they are about global warming.

Back to the real topic at hand: Why did I choose the 90 square inch head? For the control.

sureshs
10-02-2007, 01:29 PM
I didn't even read post #5 until just now since you mentioned it.

If you do a search, you'll see I've been saying this already for many years here.


If a bigger head racquet had a bigger sweetspot, won't it compensate for this?

OrangeOne
10-02-2007, 01:35 PM
I don't think you're getting it. To some people, a Corolla or a Prius is the best car in the world, regardless of price. They would buy them over a Porsche even if the Porsche was the same price.

And, yes, racquets do work that way. Some people prefer a $70 racquet over a $250 racquet not because of the price but because they play better with the $70 racquet than with the $250 racquet. They would still buy and use the $70 racquet even if the $250 racquet also costs $70.

There is no such thing as the "best racquet". The best racquet for you may be the worst racquet for someone else. That applies to just about everything, not just racquets. You seem to think everything only revolves around cost. Well, it doesn't. Something is not "better" just because it's more expensive. I learned that a long, long time ago in life.

Breakpoint makes a good post above, I agree with it entirely.

For anyone else ..... who thinks 'wealthy' people get / stay 'wealthy' through BUYING the 'most expensive' of everything .... well you probably need to go study maths :) I know surgeons and CEOs who drive 25 year old crappy cars. Sure, I've met ones who drive B*** too, but don't assume that people spend on EVERYTHING just because you think they can.

BreakPoint
10-02-2007, 01:35 PM
However, using Cameron Diaz and Larry David as examples of people who choose the cheap over the luxurious is not applicable. Those people choose their cars for political reasons. They both drive the Prius (as do the founders of Google), and choose the vehicle to show the rest of us how concerned they are about global warming.

And also because they have no need for an expensive, fancy car. They see a car as purely for transportation and not as a status symbol. Mark Andreessen, who founded Netscape and is worth hundreds of millions, drives a $20,000 Ford Mustang even though he could afford any car he wants and as many of them as he wants. Now, you're not going to tell me that he drives a Mustang because he's concerned about global warming, are you?
There are lots and lots of rich people who do not drive expensive cars. You may be into status symbols to show off but not everyone is.

BreakPoint
10-02-2007, 01:37 PM
If a bigger head racquet had a bigger sweetspot, won't it compensate for this?
No, because the sweetspot is wider and lower but not higher.

Klatu Verata Necktie
10-02-2007, 06:32 PM
And also because they have no need for an expensive, fancy car. They see a car as purely for transportation and not as a status symbol. Mark Andreessen, who founded Netscape and is worth hundreds of millions, drives a $20,000 Ford Mustang even though he could afford any car he wants and as many of them as he wants. Now, you're not going to tell me that he drives a Mustang because he's concerned about global warming, are you?
There are lots and lots of rich people who do not drive expensive cars. You may be into status symbols to show off but not everyone is.

Do you argue just for the sake or arguing?

Is Mark Andreessen not the exception to the rule? Is wanting an expensive car over a less expensive car always a matter of status, of is it possible to want the most comfortable, fastest, or best handling?

I was always careful to write the word "most" into my posts so that people like you wouldn't try to imply that I painted the entire car buying public with a broad brush, but you didn't have the courtesy to read my post carefully.

Tennisplayer92
10-02-2007, 07:06 PM
so with an oversize racquet the sweetspot is generally lower? do racquet companies counter this by adding weight in the head? if so would an oversize racquet that is headlight play awkward?

BreakPoint
10-02-2007, 07:19 PM
Do you argue just for the sake or arguing?
No, I just like to correct people when they are cleary wrong.

Is Mark Andreessen not the exception to the rule?
Well, if half the population is an "exception", then I guess he is.

Is wanting an expensive car over a less expensive car always a matter of status, of is it possible to want the most comfortable, fastest, or best handling?
Well, then you can buy a used high-end car for about the same price as the new low-end car.

I was always careful to write the word "most" into my posts so that people like you wouldn't try to imply that I painted the entire car buying public with a broad brush, but you didn't have the courtesy to read my post carefully.
I did read your post carefully and I certainly did not see you say "most":
I want to stop talking about cars, but I'm beginning to think that you are misunderstanding me. My argument is that if cost were not an issue, people would purchase the best of anything, including cars. When you inject insurance and gas into the equation, you are injecting cost. Racquets do not work that way. It costs the same to buy and maintain a pro racquet than it does to buy and maintain a beginner's racquet.

Klatu Verata Necktie
10-02-2007, 07:49 PM
No, I just like to correct people when they are cleary wrong.

Well, if half the population is an "exception", then I guess he is.

Well, then you can buy a used high-end car for about the same price as the new low-end car.

I did read your post carefully and I certainly did not see you say "most":

Half the population would not rather have the best of something if it were the same price?

I re-read the posts and didn't see where I said that everyone who had the choice between a high end car and a low end car would choose the high end car.

Anyways, I'm sure you are very proud of yourself for trashing someone on a tennis board. Congratulations!

smittysan89
10-02-2007, 07:54 PM
You guys are ridiculous. STFU or move the thread to the "Odds and Ends" forum.

Klatu Verata Necktie
10-02-2007, 08:06 PM
You guys are ridiculous. STFU or move the thread to the "Odds and Ends" forum.

You're right. It's easy to get carried away. My apologies.

BreakPoint
10-02-2007, 08:11 PM
Half the population would not rather have the best of something if it were the same price?
Yes, because "best" is a subjective opinion. Many people may think a Prius or a Corolla is the "best" car in the world for any price, just like some people may think a $70 racquet is the best racquet in the world at any price.

I re-read the posts and didn't see where I said that everyone who had the choice between a high end car and a low end car would choose the high end car.
What about this:
(although the notion that most people would choose a Corolla over a Porsche if they cost the same is nonsense)

keithchircop
10-03-2007, 01:56 AM
Enough already about cars.

In D Zone
10-03-2007, 11:51 AM
BLAH..BLAH.. BLAH.... Car this and that !

STOP the chatting about cars!

armand
10-03-2007, 11:54 AM
Yes, I know but I wasn't talking about race tracks. If you go back to my posts, I was talking about city streets and local highways, neither of which you would dare drive at over 200mph.

I also doubt many amateurs would dare to drive at over 200mph even on a race track. That's why there are professional race car drivers.This board, although maintained by an American company, still has a very international participation. Please convert and use km/h then many of us won't be so lost. Thank you!

sureshs
10-03-2007, 12:17 PM
No, because the sweetspot is wider and lower but not higher.

Why? Approximating the sweetspot by a circle, a bigger sweetspot would be a bigger circle. If the center of this circle is lower than the center of a smaller circle, the bigger circle could still reach up to the top of the smaller circle.

no1
10-03-2007, 01:30 PM
90 sq in rackets usually feel better... thats all I really care about anyway....

BreakPoint
10-03-2007, 04:16 PM
Why? Approximating the sweetspot by a circle, a bigger sweetspot would be a bigger circle. If the center of this circle is lower than the center of a smaller circle, the bigger circle could still reach up to the top of the smaller circle.
Because the "sweetspot" is really just a point, and this "point" (which is the middle of the so-called "sweetspot) is higher on a 90 than a 120 (assuming both racquets are 27" in length)

LES
10-03-2007, 05:19 PM
Do you argue just for the sake or arguing?

:mrgreen: You noticed this too huh?

VGP
10-04-2007, 06:02 AM
But no junior or college players who are in between us and the pros use it either.

FWIW, I was watching TTC and saw Clint Bowles win the US Claycourt Boy's 18s using the Wilson k90.......

keithchircop
10-04-2007, 06:07 AM
FWIW, I was watching TTC and saw Clint Bowles win the US Claycourt Boy's 18s using the Wilson k90.......

sureshs was just saying that to fill in for the absent NoBadMojo. Now NBMJ is back to the dark place in his otherwise peaceful happy life, and will continue instead of him.

sureshs
10-04-2007, 06:59 AM
sureshs was just saying that to fill in for the absent NoBadMojo. Now NBMJ is back to the dark place in his otherwise peaceful happy life, and will continue instead of him.

I think I just saw a thread about 3.0 using a K6.1. Let me go take care of that.

But the higher sweetspot concept is interesting. Still not too convinced about it because recreational players are not good at hitting the sweetspot anyways.

anirut
10-04-2007, 08:15 AM
... because recreational players are not good at hitting the sweetspot anyways.

Are you seriously serious to have said that? C'mon, at least set a playing level of recreational players, not such a wide statement.

sureshs
10-04-2007, 08:43 AM
Are you seriously serious to have said that? C'mon, at least set a playing level of recreational players, not such a wide statement.

You are excepted from that remark of course ....

But seriously, how many rec players have you seen with the "thump" sound off their racquets? If they cannot hit the sweetspot even when the ball is close to them, what is the chance they will hit a tiny but higher sweetspot on the run, which is the assumption of a greater reach? As far as serves go, same thing - inconsistent toss and not finding the sweetspot. So it is more likely that instead of more reach, the player will mishit and feel a jarring shock. Now 5.0 onwards, it is a different story.

anirut
10-04-2007, 09:24 AM
You are excepted from that remark of course ....

... Now 5.0 onwards, it is a different story.

No, I'm not a 5.0. I'm probably only a Pi --> 3.14159 ;)

sureshs
10-04-2007, 09:28 AM
No, I'm not a 5.0. I'm probably only a Pi --> 3.14159 ;)

At least you have the endurance to continue infinitely

BounceHitBounceHit
10-04-2007, 11:25 AM
At least you have the endurance to continue infinitely

OK, THAT was funny. ;) CC

sureshs
10-04-2007, 11:29 AM
OK, THAT was funny. ;) CC

But very few people would have gotten it :-)

BreakPoint
10-04-2007, 12:08 PM
You are excepted from that remark of course ....

But seriously, how many rec players have you seen with the "thump" sound off their racquets? If they cannot hit the sweetspot even when the ball is close to them, what is the chance they will hit a tiny but higher sweetspot on the run, which is the assumption of a greater reach? As far as serves go, same thing - inconsistent toss and not finding the sweetspot. So it is more likely that instead of more reach, the player will mishit and feel a jarring shock. Now 5.0 onwards, it is a different story.
You sound like you're describing a sub-3.0 level player, and not most players above the 3.5 level. I'm a recreational player and I'm not near a 5.0 and I do hear a "thump" just about everytime I hit the ball. :D

sureshs
10-04-2007, 12:13 PM
You sound like you're describing a sub-3.0 level player, and not most players above the 3.5 level. I'm a recreational player and I'm not near a 5.0 and I do hear a "thump" just about everytime I hit the ball. :D

I have seen innumerable 4.0s play, and the sound is not even close to even the somewhat advanced juniors, specially on the backhand.

LES
10-04-2007, 01:18 PM
Are you claiming you can tell someones level by the sound of their hitting?

BreakPoint
10-04-2007, 01:23 PM
I have seen innumerable 4.0s play, and the sound is not even close to even the somewhat advanced juniors, specially on the backhand.
Were these 4.0's using granny sticks? And some "4.0's" hit the ball more solidly than other "4.0's". A guy that drops shots and lobs all day long because they have no real forehand nor backhand nor volleys can be a "4.0" because they win by driving their opponents insane.

bluegrasser
10-05-2007, 02:22 AM
It amazes me how the *mid thread* creates such a stir, but I can understand it. The most enjoyable hit I had with a racquet this summer was the Kfed 90, I was blown away by the feel, control & how you could hit an instant winner with any short ball, he$l, I was in love.

Then reality set in when I played doubs indoors on a hot day and my arm felt so daM% fatigued that I couldn't hit a ball except my serve. The weight of the stick took it's toll. I'm past my prime ( age/condition factor) but dam% it all, I wish like hel$ that the K90 would of worked, as a matter of fact, i think I'll take it out for a demo, no ! whor$dom again...

sureshs
10-05-2007, 07:41 AM
Are you claiming you can tell someones level by the sound of their hitting?

To some extent. The best is when both players are advanced and playing at the baseline. It is pure music.

Shashwat
10-05-2007, 07:58 AM
I hear that sound every point in my matches. I am a junior player, i play 3 singles and 1 doubles, so you are saying i am good just because the racquet/ball produce that sound everytime i hit?

hey, thanks.

sureshs
10-05-2007, 09:21 AM
I hear that sound every point in my matches. I am a junior player, i play 3 singles and 1 doubles, so you are saying i am good just because the racquet/ball produce that sound everytime i hit?

hey, thanks.

You need to let others hear the sound and comment as you may be biased or not paying attention.

So what level to do you play? In high school I assume. What kind of tournaments do you play and what do your results look like?

Shashwat
10-05-2007, 09:31 AM
You need to let others hear the sound and comment as you may be biased or not paying attention.

So what level to do you play? In high school I assume. What kind of tournaments do you play and what do your results look like?

A pro (teaching pro at the club i go to) said i was a solid 4.5 but i think i'm a 4.0 cause i have been owned pretty bad by top 10 (16/18)players in texas and my game sometimes falls apart during matches. My results are pretty good, more wins than losses. Our school is pretty strong, but 5th in our district because our district is just that great. Top 2 teams have about 2 or 3 superchamps and the rest are champs. I haven't really played any USTA tournaments this year.

BounceHitBounceHit
10-05-2007, 09:37 AM
I post this NOT to be argumentative, but I don't think the 'THWACK' or 'THUD' is NECESSARILY heard EVERYtime a good player strikes the ball. ;) My sound varies quite a bit by virtue of my efforts to impart different spins, vary the pace, height over the net, etc. Despite this fact many shots hit without a 'THWACK' prove very effective. ;) CC

BreakPoint
10-05-2007, 10:29 AM
The "thump" sound also comes more likely when using a solid, heavy racquet. You're less likely to hear that "thump" sound if you're using a lightweight, tinny granny stick.

LES
10-05-2007, 01:50 PM
But something more hollow will amplify sound more than something that's more solid. Just think about an electric vs an acoustic guitar.

Well it's more complicated than just that. Aside from decibel level, there's pitch and tone. Different racquets, strings and balls all affect the sound differently. Topspin sounds more like a 'brush', whereas flat hit sounds more like a 'thump'.

Anyways, I don't believe anyones ear is sharp enough to tell the difference between 3 - 4 - 5 levels by just the sound.

Besides you don't have to hit the exact center of the sweetspot on every shot. You can win a point with a slice, drop shot, volley, etc.. And who says that levels below a 5.0 cannot hit the sweetspot? I'm pretty sure most people here below a 5.0 can hit the sweetspot. I call BS on sureshs. :rolleyes:

Klatu Verata Necktie
10-05-2007, 02:21 PM
But something more hollow will amplify sound more than something that's more solid. Just think about an electric vs an acoustic guitar.

Well it's more complicated than just that. Aside from decibel level, there's pitch and tone. Different racquets, strings and balls all affect the sound differently. Topspin sounds more like a 'brush', whereas flat hit sounds more like a 'thump'.

I agree that there seem to be many factors that influence the sound that a racquet makes when it comes it strikes a ball. One of those factors has to be string tension. I got a chance to hit today with jmverdugo and drakulie today, I I've got to say that drakulie's mid+ Trisys strung at 70 lbs sounded like an exploding bomb!

I was also a bit surprised to find that 70 lbs was quite tolerable in that racquet.

Shashwat
10-05-2007, 02:31 PM
The "thump" sound also comes more likely when using a solid, heavy racquet. You're less likely to hear that "thump" sound if you're using a lightweight, tinny granny stick.

I agree with that, i rarely heard that sound with my FXP radical. I hear it almost every shot with my K95. And it really depends on the shot too, if you hit a normal groundstroke, you will hear it, if you put different spins or hit a different shot, you won't.

drakulie
10-05-2007, 02:53 PM
I agree that there seem to be many factors that influence the sound that a racquet makes when it comes it strikes a ball. One of those factors has to be string tension. I got a chance to hit today with jmverdugo and drakulie today, I I've got to say that drakulie's mid+ Trisys strung at 70 lbs sounded like an exploding bomb!

I was also a bit surprised to find that 70 lbs was quite tolerable in that racquet.

Yeah, I agree about the different factors that could influence the sound of the ball meeting the strings.

Damn, did it really sound that loud?? I guess when you are behind it, you can't really tell. By the way, go into the "Long Live the Radicals" thread and post your thoughts on the trisys.

LES
10-05-2007, 02:59 PM
I agree that there seem to be many factors that influence the sound that a racquet makes when it comes it strikes a ball. One of those factors has to be string tension. I got a chance to hit today with jmverdugo and drakulie today, I I've got to say that drakulie's mid+ Trisys strung at 70 lbs sounded like an exploding bomb!

I was also a bit surprised to find that 70 lbs was quite tolerable in that racquet.

Yeah, it just shows that you can't make blanket statements without experiencing first hand. I would be guilty of thinking that such high tensions would be unplayable but it depends on the racquet

Klatu Verata Necktie
10-05-2007, 03:00 PM
Yeah, I agree about the different factors that could influence the sound of the ball meeting the strings.

Damn, did it really sound that loud?? I guess when you are behind it, you can't really tell. By the way, go into the "Long Live the Radicals" thread and post your thoughts on the trisys.

The sound was also amplified by the low ambient noise. It was loud. I was able to notice it when I was sitting on the sidelines watching you hit with jmverdugo. Both you were producing some macho sounds on your racquets.

drakulie
10-05-2007, 03:41 PM
^^Same when you hit the ball. That full poly job makes a nice sound. Or is it the frame perhaps??? HMmmmmm. You seemed to really be enjoying the results of the Head Prestige Tour. Congrats on the purchase.

Now if you would only let me win a few points we could both be happy K90 users. :)

mrw
10-05-2007, 03:48 PM
Lately, I have been hitting with a Head Graphite Edge. I think it is an 81 sq in racquet. Nicely weighted and as precise as a scalpel. I have been using it more than my M-Fil 300's. I might even use it in a tournament, we shall see.

Klatu Verata Necktie
10-05-2007, 03:58 PM
Lately, I have been hitting with a Head Graphite Edge. I think it is an 81 sq in racquet. Nicely weighted and as precise as a scalpel. I have been using it more than my M-Fil 300's. I might even use it in a tournament, we shall see.

Was it difficult at all to adjust from a 95 sq inch stick to an 80? It seems like a drastic reduction in size.