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View Full Version : Attention: Head Radical Twin Tube Experts


Euthanasiast
09-28-2007, 09:07 PM
I have been acquiring twin tube rackets circa '95-'98 and have amassed about 6 so far. Yesterday I went out to my local court to practice my serve, and I hit a couple of hoppers full with my new '95 twin tube zebra. I then decided to hit a couple with my '98 model tt and upon picking up the racket, I noticed immediately that it was substantially lighter than the '95 version. I would say at least a couple of grams.

This puzzled me because I have heard repeatedly on these boards that there is virtually no difference between the models for these years save for the paint job, but right away I noticed a difference in weight. How could this be?

The only difference is that the lighter '98 version has what is known as 'cap grommets'. Are the cap grommets significantly lighter than the standard grommets (makes no sense as the cap grommets looks like more plastic on the racket)?

If this is so, then I think I'd like to get a few sets of the cap grommets, because to be honest, I found it significantly easier to serve with the lighter version. Any ideas where (if this is what's causing the weight difference) I can get replacement 'cap grommets' for this particular model?

Thanks in advance.

Ross K
09-28-2007, 10:45 PM
This interests me as I was considering buying a '98 model Rad TT. You sound quite sure it's an issue that relates to the cap grommets? Anyway, if it is that or someting else, I too would like to hear an explanation from those Rad TT connoisseurs.

BTW, Euthanasiast, with your experience of the racquet, do you mind just giving me a little lowdown on its characteristics?... strengths and weaknesses... how highly do you really rate it?... what does it compare to?... etc. I've posted already trying to get ppl's opinions on this Head legend, but I haven't been deluged with replies, and so I'm still slightly unsure about it.

Cheers,

R.

KFwinds
09-28-2007, 11:52 PM
CAP grommets are actually heavier than regular grommets. Many people have reported trimming them in order to reduce swingweight.

Deuce
09-29-2007, 01:30 AM
No Radical that I know of was ever sold new with CAPs.

If you're looking for a wonderful, beautiful, magnificent, terrific, marvelous, stupendous, amazing, brilliantly bedazzling Twin Tube racquet, get a hold of the Premier Tour.
Best racquet ever*.





* Actually, it is the absolute worst piece of crap I've ever hit with in my life.
But it is a Twin Tube.

Euthanasiast
09-29-2007, 02:26 AM
Well, I didn't actually say that my '98 model was brand new (though it is in phenomenal shape for a used racket). If cap grommets are heavier than regular grommets then I am astonished that no one noticed the weight differences between these two rackets before me. I hit about three hoppers full with the '95 stick and then when I grabbed the '98 I thought for a second that I had picked up my girlfriend's LM Radical.

Are there any other factors that could have caused this?

Ross, It's difficult to explain but it's definitely about feel. At most anytime you feel as if you are holding a regular stick, but the moment the ball comes into contact with the string bed the racket no longer feels passive. It feels very 'fifth-gear'. There's almost certainly a dampening effect with the twin tube design of these particular rackets that feel more even and smooth, like a whisper of silk, beckoning yet subtle. It's like being on the right end of a complex physics equation. I know that may not help you much, but that really is the best way for me to describe it. And despite the so-called advances in materials and design of contemporary models, this particular and older design might very well have been the pinnacle of racket technology for Head, and they most certainly have been going the other way ever since.

I have a couple other each of the '95 and '98 rackets incoming, and I will almost certainly be making comparisons as they arrive. But there is absolutely a weight difference between the two. Anyone that serves three ball hoppers full of the '95, then switches over to the '98 will see it without thinking about it.

...I'd simply like to get to the bottom of why. I think I might prefer the balance of the '98 version.

Euthanasiast
09-29-2007, 03:15 AM
Okay, so there are other things to consider...

This is positively a smaller racket in the '98 series of the same mid plus tour 630cm compared with the '95 series. I dusted off my calipers and got a precise .01" variance in beam thickness between the '95 and the '98 in various locations. This is well within machined tolerances of these rackets. In short, they are not identical frames. The '95-97 version is larger by slight, thus adding to its weight.

Even with cap grommets on the '98 frame, it weighs noticeably less.

Ross K
09-29-2007, 03:44 AM
Euthanasiast;1781096]Ross, It's difficult to explain but it's definitely about feel. At most anytime you feel as if you are holding a regular stick, but the moment the ball comes into contact with the string bed the racket no longer feels passive. It feels very 'fifth-gear'. There's almost certainly a dampening effect with the twin tube design of these particular rackets that feel more even and smooth, like a whisper of silk, beckoning yet subtle. It's like being on the right end of a complex physics equation.

Hey Euthanasiast - I'm seriously liking your wine connoisseur-like descriptive skills here! Brilliant!

this particular and older design might very well have been the pinnacle of racket technology for Head, and they most certainly have been going the other way ever since.

Hmmm. High praise indeed. (Shittake mushrooms! Maybe I do need to buy it?)

I have a couple other each of the '95 and '98 rackets incoming, and I will almost certainly be making comparisons as they arrive.
...I'd simply like to get to the bottom of why. I think I might prefer the balance of the '98 version.

I'd be interested to hear more.

Great post Euthanasiast! As a recent convert to the cause of the old 'Head legends', I can eat this kind of info up all day!

Ross K
09-29-2007, 03:48 AM
No Radical that I know of was ever sold new with CAPs.

If you're looking for a wonderful, beautiful, magnificent, terrific, marvelous, stupendous, amazing, brilliantly bedazzling Twin Tube racquet, get a hold of the Premier Tour.
Best racquet ever*.





* Actually, it is the absolute worst piece of crap I've ever hit with in my life.
But it is a Twin Tube.

I agree. You should check out The Wilson Surge, any of the carbon Hyper Hammer series, or indeed, the Wilson 'Dora the Explorer' range.

vsbabolat
09-29-2007, 07:28 AM
Okay, so there are other things to consider...

This is positively a smaller racket in the '98 series of the same mid plus tour 630cm compared with the '95 series. I dusted off my calipers and got a precise .01" variance in beam thickness between the '95 and the '98 in various locations. This is well within machined tolerances of these rackets. In short, they are not identical frames. The '95-97 version is larger by slight, thus adding to its weight.

Even with cap grommets on the '98 frame, it weighs noticeably less.

I suggest you take your racquets and weigh them on a scale. Another thing to consider as why they feel different is a differences in balance and swing weight also. But according to the litterature from the time I have from HEAD for the racquets the weight and balance are supposed to be the same.

I have many Prestige Classics from different years and some are lighter than others with different balance, and swing weight. Also I bet if I put calipers to the different Prestige ClassicI have I am sure I could find different beam widths also.

hrstrat57
09-29-2007, 07:33 AM
I suggest you take your racquets and weigh them on a scale. Another thing to consider as why they feel different is a differences in balance and swing weight also. But according to the litterature from the time I have from HEAD for the racquets the weight and balance are supposed to be the same.

I have many Prestige Classics from different years and some are lighter than others with different balance, and swing weight. Also I bet if I put calipers to the different Prestige ClassicI have I am sure I could find different beam widths also.

Agreed. Even mythical Austrian manufacturing tolerances ;) may vary from day to day or yr to yr....the only way to get identical sticks is to get them from the same day production run..even then tolerances can slip by the hour.

I had 3 tt radical tours in my bag at one pt 2 97's and 1 1998. They felt and played nearly identical.

But not exactly....identical....that is hard to find.....and not really necessary for me. Tennis is unfortunately not my day job:(

I was going to bid on that 98 btw...then you poached it at the last minute i think. Maybe you should not buy them all...leave a couple for the rest of us:)

j30tennis
09-29-2007, 08:13 AM
Favorite racquet ever, only have 1 97 mid plus model(not the black and yellow one) i believe not smart enough to purchase more when they were around. Sadly it remains in my bag never to see the light of day.

Euthanasiast
09-29-2007, 08:30 AM
I was going to bid on that 98 btw...then you poached it at the last minute i think. Maybe you should not buy them all...leave a couple for the rest of us:)

Poached? 98.00 dollars for a Twin Tube racket that is in excellent to mint condition isn't exactly poaching, is it? Or are you saying that I sniped it? :)

I don't know. I'm telling you the difference in weight was pretty substantial to me. I understand about variances in batches and all of that, but it was a bit of a shocking difference.

j30tennis
09-29-2007, 08:35 AM
Just out of curiousity what is the weight of the midplus 97 rad?

j30tennis
09-29-2007, 08:37 AM
Any of the Head rads comprable to the 97 twin tube?

Euthanasiast
09-29-2007, 08:40 AM
Just out of curiousity what is the weight of the midplus 97 rad?

I don't have a scale here, but if I recall the specs I've seen for the '95-'97 model are: frame strung and without overgrip are mass, 352.5g (or 12.4340 oz); balance, 326mm; swingweight, 339 units.

Euthanasiast
09-29-2007, 08:40 AM
Any of the Head rads comprable to the 97 twin tube?

I have heard that the new Agassi LE is closest, but I haven't hit with it.

j30tennis
09-29-2007, 08:43 AM
I have heard that the new Agassi LE is closest, but I haven't hit with it.

That is what I am using now except it is a OS not a mid plus. Was using the TI. RAD OS, hate that Rack. I miss the Mid plus TT.

Euthanasiast
09-29-2007, 08:50 AM
Favorite racquet ever, only have 1 97 mid plus model(not the black and yellow one) i believe not smart enough to purchase more when they were around. Sadly it remains in my bag never to see the light of day.

Why will it never see the light of day, if it is your favorite racket? Is it because you only have the one?

j30tennis
09-29-2007, 08:52 AM
YUP can't honestly fall back in love with something that is no longer available

vsbabolat
09-29-2007, 09:06 AM
I don't know. I'm telling you the difference in weight was pretty substantial to me. I understand about variances in batches and all of that, but it was a bit of a shocking difference.

You really wont know for sure until you put them on a scale and a balance board. Because balance point and swing weight really have a big effect on how a racquet feels in the hand.

Euthanasiast
09-29-2007, 04:12 PM
I was going to bid on that 98 btw...then you poached it at the last minute i think. Maybe you should not buy them all...leave a couple for the rest of us:)

Well, when it comes to these rackets I am in it to win it, but if you give me your email address, I'll give you mine, and anytime you want to bid on one, simply let me know and I'll back off. It's the least I could do for a fellow guitar player (according to your name).

j30tennis
09-29-2007, 08:16 PM
It is a shame that Head decided to go with the triys limited edition instead of the 630 twin tube tour Rad. I think I made an error when stating I have the 97 version, I think it is the 98 version Yellow, Silver, Black.

Euthanasiast
09-29-2007, 11:09 PM
It is a shame that Head decided to go with the triys limited edition instead of the 630 twin tube tour Rad. I think I made an error when stating I have the 97 version, I think it is the 98 version Yellow, Silver, Black.

Does it also have a little red in it? Otherwise, I think you got the '95-'97 version.

Ross K
09-30-2007, 12:38 AM
Head legends: Rad Tour MP (xl)


Any of you know anything much about the old Rad Tour MP (xl)?... How does it play?... pro's and con's?... etc, etc.

Plus also... am I totally off base here or is this the 1993 yellow and black frame used by Agassi. Furthermore, is this the racquet that aquired the nickname - 'the bumblebee?'

Apologies if any of this info is incorrect.

Ross K
09-30-2007, 02:11 AM
Photo of above ^

http://i171.photobucket.com/albums/u291/RRohan/e81a_1.JPG.jpg

Euthanasiast
09-30-2007, 02:27 AM
No, that's the '98 version. The last year of the illustrious twin tube.

j30tennis
09-30-2007, 07:17 AM
Does it also have a little red in it? Otherwise, I think you got the '95-'97 version.

Yes it does have red in it. the Tour is in red as is mid plus, and tour series, with two red stripes on tour side.

j30tennis
09-30-2007, 07:19 AM
The phot Ross K posted is the model I have. What grip size is that Ross K?

Supernatural_Serve
09-30-2007, 08:19 AM
Best racquet I've ever hit a ball with:

Head Radical Tour mid-plus (630 cm, twin tube, made in Austria) purchased in early '96

Unfortunately, it slipped out of my hand trying to hit a huge kick serve. It suffered a tiny crack in the top of the hoop.

The various Head Radicals I've played with since have been excellent substitutes but they've lack a little in the areas of feel, weight, and stability of this perfect racquet for me.

I tried the Prestige line as a substitute, but they are too much of a player's racquet for me.

The Agassie LE may be the closest thing newly available.

But, its a little more of a player's racquet

Prestige, Agassie LE ---------------Radical Tour MP -------------- Modern Radicals
<-----more player's racquet ---------perfect ----------------less of a player's racqet--->

vsbabolat
09-30-2007, 08:42 AM
Plus also... am I totally off base here or is this the 1993 yellow and black frame used by Agassi. Furthermore, is this the racquet that aquired the nickname - 'the bumblebee?'

Apologies if any of this info is incorrect.

Ross K, This is a photo below of the original Radical Trisys 260 (Radical Tour in Europe) from 1993-1995. Some call it the "bumblebee".



http://homepage.ntlworld.com/kevin.keung/JK/Tennis/head_radical_s.jpg

j30tennis
09-30-2007, 08:53 AM
Vsbabolot, have that one also. Never was smart enough to purchase multiple of either rads. Now I use the LE os Agassi rad(have 2 ). Worse Rad line in my opinion ti. rad. Have 2 of that also.

Ross K
09-30-2007, 09:27 AM
I think maybe it's appropriate to carry this on with a new thread... look out for 'HEAD LEGENDS' (or something similar)...

j30tennis
09-30-2007, 09:32 AM
Post it up Ross K

vsbabolat
09-30-2007, 09:44 AM
I think maybe it's appropriate to carry this on with a new thread... look out for 'HEAD LEGENDS' (or something similar)...

Here is the your first photo of the HEAD Legand;)
http://i173.photobucket.com/albums/w50/vsbabolat/HeadLegand1.jpg
It is a snowshoe racquet from the early 80's

Andre Agasaki
09-30-2007, 09:48 AM
Hi, I am presently using the Trysis 260 as well. Those and the TwinTube rackets are the best. I do not know what Head was thinking when they made the LE version. Beyond cosmetics it is nothing like Andre Agassi's racket. I wish they did it right! What a dissapointment! :confused:

j30tennis
09-30-2007, 09:53 AM
Agreed Andre