PDA

View Full Version : 1hbh ts: more depth, less effort?


ananda
10-03-2007, 08:35 PM
pls correct me if i am wrong here.
i have been playing for 2.5 months and i think i have a decent consistent 2hbh (i am not referring to slices at all in this thread). i mean TS and Flat drives.
However, there are 2 observations i had about my stroke:
1. occasionally not getting depth on shot (praps due to missing sweetspot)
2. the 2hbh really takes a lot of effort/energy.

so recently, i started trying out the 1hbh ts/drive. although i am still learning the stroke, i find i get gr8 depth on it, and its almost effortless (i mean no energy expended!)

Am i correct in these 2 observations: less energy expended on 1hbh, and better depth ?

in case you want to know a little more, i could be missing the sweetspot on the 2hbh cos i don't get to practice it much. my partner just likes to do fh to fh rallies. as far as the 1hbh is concerned i do admit that some go into the net, but most hit the baseline or go slightly beyond, but then i have barely started. (i use the ps 6.0 95 stock.)

Geezer Guy
10-04-2007, 06:01 AM
I'm no expert on the 2hbh, but seems to me the 2-hander is hit with a shorter stroke. The 1-hander has more take-back and follow-through, so more momentum (less effort). If you hit the 1hbh with good form and technique, you can get good pace and spin on the ball with minimal effort.

harleywilson
10-04-2007, 07:45 AM
The 1hbh is a more difficult shot because it depends on timing and footwork. Pick one and stay with it. I could never hit a 2 hander for some reason

smoothtennis
10-04-2007, 08:04 AM
Cool that you are trying both now at 2.5. That is the time to try a few options out.

I used a 2 hander until I hit 3.5, and I had the same feeling. A lot of effort hitting the 2hbh, and it just didn't quite feel 'comfortable'. I admit, I didn't really know a lot about the technique involved to hit a good one. I did some things wrong I know now.

However, I changed to 1hbh, and it was the most comfortable stroke compared to even my forehand. It took a while to figure out the stroke, it really did, but once down, it really should be a very comfortable, natural, and powerful stroke.

The 1hbh requires better footwork, better timing, and smaller contact zone variance. Those are the thing that take the time to develop well.

If I were you, I would first focus on the right grip that is comfortable, yet puts some bite into the ball without doing too much. A simple low to high motion, out front, find that contact zone where you are not late, and not muscling the ball. It exists, you have to work on it. Keep it very simple at first, and find the grip and contact zone well. Don't hit hard. Ingrain it.

I must say, you have to also work to set up to the ball well too, with your feet, and make darn sure you never have your weight going up or back at first while developing the stroke. Set up early, get that stroke out front, and weight goes forward. Simple.

When this becomes comfortable for a while, you can work on better coiling, and then really releasing into the ball cleanly with serious power. But that comes last, and it is just as 'easy' as hitting softly, but requires much better timing. You have to understand that your power comes almost completely from your technique, and not your arm ripping at the ball.

After a while, THEN, you can start messing with the grip a little more closed, and seeing the massive spin you can impart on the ball with varying degrees of pace. Oh boy, this is where the stroke becomes a real weapon.

The most common problem that creeps in on this stroke, at least for me, once I clearly established the shot as a comfortable dependable stroke, is allowing the body and shoulder to remain open too much. This takes aways the power, and the placement immediately. Keep those shoulders closed through contact, and I can't stress this point strong enough. See recently, I started opening up my shoulders early for whatever reason (who knows...), and my backhand went South in a hurry. Closed it up, and BOOM! Back in business baby.

Good luck, and don't try to overthing all this, just add one element at a time, and don't EVER overcomplicate the stroke. It really is a very natural and relaxed stroke.

PS. When I say develop this slowly, I mean over months to develop, and years to refine. Don't try all that stuff I suggested in one session - it's too much. Each level takes a while. Good luck!

harleywilson
10-04-2007, 08:18 AM
Great post smoothtennis!

samster
10-04-2007, 10:46 AM
Cool that you are trying both now at 2.5. That is the time to try a few options out.

I used a 2 hander until I hit 3.5, and I had the same feeling. A lot of effort hitting the 2hbh, and it just didn't quite feel 'comfortable'. I admit, I didn't really know a lot about the technique involved to hit a good one. I did some things wrong I know now.

However, I changed to 1hbh, and it was the most comfortable stroke compared to even my forehand. It took a while to figure out the stroke, it really did, but once down, it really should be a very comfortable, natural, and powerful stroke.

The 1hbh requires better footwork, better timing, and smaller contact zone variance. Those are the thing that take the time to develop well.

If I were you, I would first focus on the right grip that is comfortable, yet puts some bite into the ball without doing too much. A simple low to high motion, out front, find that contact zone where you are not late, and not muscling the ball. It exists, you have to work on it. Keep it very simple at first, and find the grip and contact zone well. Don't hit hard. Ingrain it.

I must say, you have to also work to set up to the ball well too, with your feet, and make darn sure you never have your weight going up or back at first while developing the stroke. Set up early, get that stroke out front, and weight goes forward. Simple.

When this becomes comfortable for a while, you can work on better coiling, and then really releasing into the ball cleanly with serious power. But that comes last, and it is just as 'easy' as hitting softly, but requires much better timing. You have to understand that your power comes almost completely from your technique, and not your arm ripping at the ball.

After a while, THEN, you can start messing with the grip a little more closed, and seeing the massive spin you can impart on the ball with varying degrees of pace. Oh boy, this is where the stroke becomes a real weapon.

The most common problem that creeps in on this stroke, at least for me, once I clearly established the shot as a comfortable dependable stroke, is allowing the body and shoulder to remain open too much. This takes aways the power, and the placement immediately. Keep those shoulders closed through contact, and I can't stress this point strong enough. See recently, I started opening up my shoulders early for whatever reason (who knows...), and my backhand went South in a hurry. Closed it up, and BOOM! Back in business baby.

Good luck, and don't try to overthing all this, just add one element at a time, and don't EVER overcomplicate the stroke. It really is a very natural and relaxed stroke.

PS. When I say develop this slowly, I mean over months to develop, and years to refine. Don't try all that stuff I suggested in one session - it's too much. Each level takes a while. Good luck!

Agree with this post. I started with 2hbh but switched to 1hbh after 2 years with the 2hbh. It took a while for me to learn to hit a topspin 1hbh consistently. Yes, it is a timing and positioning issue with the 1hbh.

BreakPoint
10-04-2007, 10:56 AM
Yes, I agree that the 1HBH takes much less effort and energy to hit than the 2HBH. This is because the 1HBH is a much more natural, flowing stroke, whereas the 2HBH is more of a forced stroke with limited movement. I can rip my 1HBH and hit the ball so much harder than with my forehand (one-handed).

sureshs
10-04-2007, 10:57 AM
It is very difficult for adult males new to the game to learn a 2 handed backhand. But easy for women. Something to do with hip rotation and ambidexterity.

Slazenger
10-04-2007, 01:06 PM
If 1HBH required less effort, everyone would be using it.

With proper technique and timing, all strokes seem to be produced effortlessly.
I hit with a 1HBH and it is my weapon, but I can hit effortless 2HBHs. Even while hitting open stance.
I don't know about the 1HBH requiring 'much less effort' than the 2HBH. What is that being based on?

habib
10-04-2007, 01:25 PM
If 1HBH required less effort, everyone would be using it.

With proper technique and timing, all strokes seem to be produced effortlessly.
I hit with a 1HBH and it is my weapon, but I can hit effortless 2HBHs. Even while hitting open stance.
I don't know about the 1HBH requiring 'much less effort' than the 2HBH. What is that being based on?

The fact that a 1hbh is a more bio-mechanically efficient stroke than either a forehand or a 2hbh. Not only is it helped by the physics involved - ie: it's basically a pendulum, which provides a lot of power solely via mass and gravity - but also by the way your body is constructed. When you think about it, with both a forehand and 2-hander, the 'hinge' around which the stroke rotates is basically behind your body - you have to work to push your hand(s) and the racquet out and into the ball. With a 1hbh, that 'hinge,' being your lead shoulder, is the forward-most part of your body, and makes pulling the racquet into contact much more efficient, with the result that you need to expend less energy to produce equivalent power.

Of course, this is when you only look at the swing itself. The 1hbh is more demanding and require more energy with respect to positioning and footwork (which is why the 2-hander is a more consistent producer of power, generally) - but once you're in place, requires less energy and effort to actually hit the ball.

fastdunn
10-04-2007, 02:51 PM
It is very difficult for adult males new to the game to learn a 2 handed backhand. But easy for women. Something to do with hip rotation and ambidexterity.

You mean women are better at hip rotation and tend to be ambidexterous ?

habib
10-04-2007, 03:44 PM
You mean women are better at hip rotation and tend to be ambidexterous ?

Not sure about the hip rotation (though with wider hips, perhaps it's a question of leverage?) but I do recall reading somewhere that women do tend to be more ambidexterous than men. I think.

Mad iX
10-04-2007, 06:17 PM
If 1HBH required less effort, everyone would be using it.

With proper technique and timing, all strokes seem to be produced effortlessly.
I hit with a 1HBH and it is my weapon, but I can hit effortless 2HBHs. Even while hitting open stance.
I don't know about the 1HBH requiring 'much less effort' than the 2HBH. What is that being based on?

I'll agree with that.
Some people just feel more natural with either. Just like some people feel natural at the net while others have no clue.
Both have their pros and cons and it's up to the player which suits them better.

Slazenger
10-04-2007, 08:30 PM
If the 2HBH does in fact, require more energy, I expect it is a negligible amount.
I teach both strokes and can hit both well, and I can't say one takes more effort to produce than the other.
If you're timing the ball perfectly and your mechanics are good, you are going to be able to get good, easy, pop on the ball. It's why kids can hit big 2hbhs.

If a player goes from a situation where they were hitting a 2 hander and it was effortful and all of a sudden they are getting easy pop on the 1 hander, they weren't hitting the 2hbh right.
And that's ok because now they've found a stroke which they can hit better and they can start the process of having a good backhand.

When people think 2hander, you associate power and effort (e.g Serena, Nadal) but there are a lot of players that hit effortless huge 2hbhs. Lindsay Davenport looks downright lazy when hitting her 2hbhs. (Same with Hantuchova). It's all timing and mechanics.

thundaga
10-04-2007, 08:47 PM
well really depends on how u define energy... if your using 2 hands, perhaps you exert more energy but with less effort.

i've had stints with both and my 1hbh(currently using) takes much more energy to hit well. i think for me its because i hit a heavy top spin backhand but played a really flat ball when i was using two hands. i put alot more work on the ball with one hand.

i think its obvious that 1hbh is harder to hit well, requires more control and footwork from the player. 2handers have the luxury of being able to play the ball off nearly any stance and dont even need a noticeable backswing.

ananda
10-04-2007, 09:03 PM
thanks for the excellent advice by all. at this point i have started using the 1hbh during rallies/knocks but during a game i switch back to 2hbh. somehow using a 2hbh i just know what angle to use depending on ball height.
wherease since i have just started with the 1hbh, i am not so sure. mebbe a week from now things will really change. my trainer was appreciative of the 1hbh (his backhand is weak, and he's not tech aware, so i cant rely on him for advice).

yeserday i happened to see this tournament going on, good players (some Open National), and i saw these strong guys using the 2hbh and in both cases the ball was always falling short, roughly around service line. never penetrating.

i believe they were using the textbook 2hbh in which you just rotate the shoulder keeping arms rigid like a hammer throw. i am too new here to comment, but i find that style does not give depth. i prefer to add a little whip/wrist flick to give depth. am i correct in this observation?

ananda
10-04-2007, 09:19 PM
well really depends on how u define energy... if your using 2 hands, perhaps you exert more energy but with less effort.

i've had stints with both and my 1hbh(currently using) takes much more energy to hit well. i think for me its because i hit a heavy top spin backhand but played a really flat ball when i was using two hands. i put alot more work on the ball with one hand.

i think its obvious that 1hbh is harder to hit well, requires more control and footwork from the player. 2handers have the luxury of being able to play the ball off nearly any stance and dont even need a noticeable backswing.
what i meant essentially is that the 2hbh tires me out quite a bit, whereas i could hit 1hbh's till the cows come home. mebbe my weak arm is really weak, mebbe cos it utilizes larger muscle groups.
(this is a fact, i know from a body building background, that exercising large muscle groups tires the body out much more than small muscle groups) praps that principle is at work.

right now, i totally agree that my 2hbh is far more accurate. also, i agree that you can hit the ball at all kinds of angles and heights.
Speed wise, the only time i have hit a really cracking 2hbh, was on a really fast service return. otherwise it is q slow.

however, i just love the 1hbh so much that there's no way i can give it up.