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View Full Version : WOuld you say strings lose 'tension' or 'resilience'


LES
10-04-2007, 03:43 PM
I used to think strings lose tension but I thought more about it and wondered if this is the case or is it more correct to say they lose resilience.

Lets say you strung a racquet at 58 lbs initially. After a while it may lose some tension and be at 54 lbs. But does it play like a racquet freshly strung at 54 lbs or something else?

Steve Huff
10-04-2007, 08:51 PM
No, and you make a good point. It will lose both. A racket that loses 10% of it's tension will not play like a fresh stringjob strung 10% lower than the first one.

LES
10-04-2007, 09:46 PM
That's what I thought but sometimes I see people saying that their racquet plays with more power after it loses tension. However, I've only experienced my racquets playing more dead.

A freshly strung racquet at 54 plays with more power than one freshly strung at 58. But a racquet whose tension has dropped to 54 will play more dead than one which is freshly strung at 54. Is this what you are saying?

So when stringforum rates tension retention are they actually rating resilience retention? Because this would seem more important.

I want to know which polys still keep its resilience the longest after tension loss. I know gut seems to keep its resilience pretty well until it breaks.

NoBadMojo
10-05-2007, 06:36 AM
It's Like Steve sez...you lose both tension and resilience. In spite of what many think gut does lose a fair amount of tension over its typical lifespan of use. The beauty of it is that it also loses resilience in a way that balances things out. With many strings you either get a dead feeling string or a stringbed which is too jumpy as time goes on....in the case of gut the loss of tension works well with the loss of resilience, so the strings play well (consistently) until they break......In the case of most poly's, they remain playable for only an hour or two ..pros dont care...they switch to a fresh stringjob every few games

Steve Huff
10-05-2007, 09:44 PM
Ed, send me your email address. I don't have it. stmt@comcast.net
thanks.

M J
10-08-2007, 06:43 PM
Yes! I have been wondering about this. I have two of the same racquets and have been staggering the stringing so I always have a fresh one and an old one. The fresh one always hits a far heavier ball, regardless of the initial tension. They play like two different racquets.

I think this resilience thing is not discussed nearly as much as it should be. It is a far more important factor for me than how well a string holds tension or how long it takes before it breaks. My favorite string is BB ALU for the first hour after a new string job, but it dies really quickly. Anyone know which strings are most resilient?

psp2
10-08-2007, 07:43 PM
Anyone know which strings are most resilient?

Natural gut.

ananda
10-08-2007, 09:34 PM
No, and you make a good point. It will lose both. A racket that loses 10% of it's tension will not play like a fresh stringjob strung 10% lower than the first one.

this is precisely what i wanted to ask today. after reading jollyrogers racket selection, i thought i might have my rack restrung at 58 (it was strung at 61 4 weeks back, i play daily 90-180 minutes).

then i thought mebbe my rack has become 58 by now, but i dont feel more power or spring, it feels a little deader.

thanks.

Bubba
10-09-2007, 02:53 AM
I used to think strings lose tension but I thought more about it and wondered if this is the case or is it more correct to say they lose resilience.

Lets say you strung a racquet at 58 lbs initially. After a while it may lose some tension and be at 54 lbs. But does it play like a racquet freshly strung at 54 lbs or something else?

Both tension and resilance are impacted/affected. From initial stringing to hard hitting a strings physical properties change - the chemical bonds loosen (tension loss) as do the durability and tensil strength due to play Trauma (notching, frey, etc.). So, over time, strings get both 'tired' and 'worn'... losing both tension and resiliance.

jbs24
10-09-2007, 06:20 AM
I think tension loss and resilience are tied in together, but some strings lose one more relative to the other.

If you lose some resiliency, you probably have had some tension loss.
If you lose tension, you may lose resiliency. In the case of natural gut, you lose very little resiliency for X amount of tension loss, but in the case of nylon, you lose a lot of resiliency for X amount of tension loss.

Valjean
10-09-2007, 10:07 AM
Yes!....

I think this resilience thing is not discussed nearly as much as it should be. It is a far more important factor for me than how well a string holds tension or how long it takes before it breaks.....
And for confirmation/proof of this unfortunate condition, see for it, unhappily, the USRSA-published Technical Tennis.

fastdunn
10-09-2007, 12:44 PM
Yes, it loses both tension and resiliency, I think.

But tension loss is more noticable in early hours of string life while resilience loss is more noticeable toward to end (that's how I feel at least).

I haven't seen much data on resilience loss on strings w.r.t playing time.

LES
10-09-2007, 03:45 PM
I want to know which polys retain resilience the best. Meaning after tension loss it's still playable. I always end up cutting my strings out before they break because the stringbed just feels dead.

I think we all agree that gut is still playable after tension loss. But most polys will lose playability way before they break. Can someone who has used many polys rank some of the more popular polys on resilience retention?

shojun25
10-09-2007, 03:52 PM
I know they lose both, but resilience is lost faster.

M J
10-10-2007, 08:54 AM
I want to know which polys retain resilience the best. Meaning after tension loss it's still playable. I always end up cutting my strings out before they break because the stringbed just feels dead.

I think we all agree that gut is still playable after tension loss. But most polys will lose playability way before they break. Can someone who has used many polys rank some of the more popular polys on resilience retention?

I am thinking of trying all gut if the resilience is that good, but I also would like to second that request.

Midlife crisis
10-12-2007, 01:15 AM
I think you're all really talking about loss of elasticity rather than resilience. Resilience, when used in a technical fashion, really describes the ability of a material to absorb and return energy. Loss of elasticity doesn't affect resilience much at all in terms of strings, but what does happen is that loss of elasticity causes the ball to contribute a larger portion of elasticity during the impact, and that is more energetically lossy. This is why loss of elasticity, or intrinsically less elastic strings, feel dead.

LES
10-12-2007, 12:58 PM
I think you're all really talking about loss of elasticity rather than resilience. Resilience, when used in a technical fashion, really describes the ability of a material to absorb and return energy. Loss of elasticity doesn't affect resilience much at all in terms of strings, but what does happen is that loss of elasticity causes the ball to contribute a larger portion of elasticity during the impact, and that is more energetically lossy. This is why loss of elasticity, or intrinsically less elastic strings, feel dead.

Oh I didn't know that thanks for the clarification. I just want to know which poly strings are still playable (not dead feeling) the longest.

-Kap-
10-12-2007, 05:20 PM
Oh I didn't know that thanks for the clarification. I just want to know which poly strings are still playable (not dead feeling) the longest.

I'm with you on that, Les. :)

Midlife crisis
10-13-2007, 07:49 PM
Oh I didn't know that thanks for the clarification. I just want to know which poly strings are still playable (not dead feeling) the longest.

My experience is that when poly strings start to significantly move, that their loss of elasticity is significant enough to affect the way they play. Most polys seem to last for between 30 and 40 hours for me. If I cut them out sooner than that, the new stringjob doesn't feel or react all that different. Beyond that and the stringbed loses power and alters the ball rebound trajectory.

Bottle Rocket
10-13-2007, 08:09 PM
I think you're all really talking about loss of elasticity rather than resilience. Resilience, when used in a technical fashion, really describes the ability of a material to absorb and return energy. Loss of elasticity doesn't affect resilience much at all in terms of strings, but what does happen is that loss of elasticity causes the ball to contribute a larger portion of elasticity during the impact, and that is more energetically lossy. This is why loss of elasticity, or intrinsically less elastic strings, feel dead.


My experience is that when poly strings start to significantly move, that their loss of elasticity is significant enough to affect the way they play. Most polys seem to last for between 30 and 40 hours for me. If I cut them out sooner than that, the new stringjob doesn't feel or react all that different. Beyond that and the stringbed loses power and alters the ball rebound trajectory.

Exactly.

As I was reading though this thread, I couldn't believe nobody brought up the word "elasticity". I couldn't have said it better.

tbini87
10-13-2007, 08:57 PM
Exactly.

As I was reading though this thread, I couldn't believe nobody brought up the word "elasticity". I couldn't have said it better.

you beat me to it haha. i think all those ideas should be looked when discussing "tension maintenance". poly usually doesn't last me that long though, but i usually play with cheap 1st gen poly that loses tension/elasticity quickly.

volusiano
10-14-2007, 12:18 AM
My experience is that when poly strings start to significantly move, that their loss of elasticity is significant enough to affect the way they play. Most polys seem to last for between 30 and 40 hours for me. If I cut them out sooner than that, the new stringjob doesn't feel or react all that different. Beyond that and the stringbed loses power and alters the ball rebound trajectory.

I agree with this. I've been tracking my SPPP DT readings from an ERT300 and put the data points on a chart. If you look at the chart, there's a 5% DT drop in the first 10 hours of play, then the DT stays completely flat up to 30 hours of play, the drops another 10% by 40 hours of play, and remains flat until 50 hours of play, when the string broke. I also observed that between 40-50 hours of play, the string started moving around a bit before it broke.

I would attribute the first 5% of DT drop to normal tension loss after the initial stringing, when the stringbed evens itself out. Then the flat DT readings up to 30 hours of play is characteristic of good tension stability in a poly like the SPPP.

Then the next 10% DT drop is probably when the elasticity started giving out. This timing is consistent with seeing the string starting to move around a bit after 40 hours of play.

Midlife crisis
10-14-2007, 09:08 AM
I agree with this. I've been tracking my SPPP DT readings from an ERT300 and put the data points on a chart. If you look at the chart, there's a 5% DT drop in the first 10 hours of play, then the DT stays completely flat up to 30 hours of play, the drops another 10% by 40 hours of play, and remains flat until 50 hours of play, when the string broke. I also observed that between 40-50 hours of play, the string started moving around a bit before it broke.

I would attribute the first 5% of DT drop to normal tension loss after the initial stringing, when the stringbed evens itself out. Then the flat DT readings up to 30 hours of play is characteristic of good tension stability in a poly like the SPPP.

Then the next 10% DT drop is probably when the elasticity started giving out. This timing is consistent with seeing the string starting to move around a bit after 40 hours of play.

I don't have a way to measure my stringbed like you do, but my experience is pretty much exactly like yours, so it's good to know that I'm not deluding myself in some way!

So far, I've used probably a half dozen different types of poly and in every instance, the "string movement" test has proven, for me, to be an accurate way to determine when to string.