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View Full Version : Players winning means they're better than you/evenly matched?


racquet_jedi
10-05-2007, 11:33 PM
Do you ever believe that if a person beat you once in a match, that person is a "better" tennis player than you, or your equal? In some cases this is true, such as a college player beating a person in JV High School tennis, but what about cases when you've been playing since you were 5 and you lose to someone that's only started playing for 6-12 months?

Bodacious DVT
10-06-2007, 02:07 AM
winning doesnt make you a better player, its how you play.

ive lost to worse players than myself, nothing really to be ashamed of, it happens to everyone.

rum02
10-06-2007, 02:39 AM
it's all about who's better on the day. It's very arrogant to believe you're better than a player you just lost to. I can't stand people who can't accept losing to their "inferiors," they give excuses like; "I played poorly" or "that was just a fluke." When I lose to someone i usually beat, I accept the fact they were better on that given day. There's no logic in thinking you're a better player to someone you, yourself cannot beat.

OrangeOne
10-06-2007, 03:12 AM
but what about cases when you've been playing since you were 5 and you lose to someone that's only started playing for 6-12 months?

How long someone has been playing is irrelevant to their abilities. If they beat you, they were better on the day, if they beat you soundly or often, odds are they're simply a better player, full-stop.

raiden031
10-06-2007, 03:44 AM
Occasionally you can lose to people that normally you would beat. This one woman I have played against every now and then for the past year, I'm like 15-1 (or 2) against her if I were to tally up all our matches. Usually I beat her around 6-2, 6-1, but 6 months ago she beat me once, and won a few sets off me in other matches around that time. I'm not sure what happened but I guess she found a weakness and I fixed it since then.

I beat a guy who was a whole NTRP level above me in a close match, only to find it was probably a fluke because he destroyed me in a re-match.

But even if you can beat someone over and over, it doesn't mean you are better than them, it just means your strategy is more effective against them than theirs is against you. Its possible they would beat many more people that can beat you so overall they are still probably better. Just look at Fed and Nadal as a perfect example. Fed is clearly better, but Nadal beats Fed more often than he loses to him.

Loco4Tennis
10-06-2007, 04:20 AM
i think that the fraise "any given sunday", applies to any and all sports, having said that, yes i do think that in that perticular day the opponent was better then you, your style of play that day did not beat theirs that day, excepting that and finding the reason why you lost will get you ready for the next time your styles meet,
while luck can be attributed to alot of sports freak wins, it is not a really big factor in tennis (but it can be), because of all the points involved, imagine how many times you have to get "lucky" to win a tennis match, to win a game (at least 4), a set (at least 24) or a match (at least 48, 2 sets)

richw76
10-06-2007, 05:06 AM
Lately I have lost a few matches to players Less skilled than me. It is due to my current fitness level. If they get me deep into a third set I have been consistently losing. I just run out of steam. I've been working on it but it's harder than I remember to get really fit.

Also, Sometimes like people have been saying a person can just have your number. In my league There's one guy that I have lost to probably 3 times. The thing is players that beat him I've spanked badly, but his style of play gives me fits.

That's why I say you can lose to a less skilled player, orange and the rest are 100% right. and if you lost then they were the better player on that day ;-)

TENNIS_IS_FUN
10-06-2007, 05:35 AM
it's all about who's better on the day. It's very arrogant to believe you're better than a player you just lost to. I can't stand people who can't accept losing to their "inferiors," they give excuses like; "I played poorly" or "that was just a fluke." When I lose to someone i usually beat, I accept the fact they were better on that given day. There's no logic in thinking you're a better player to someone you, yourself cannot beat.

I agree with you 100%. What are you saying to your opponent when you say he was not better than you when he beat you? You're putting his accomplishments down...it's just rude. If you lose to an opponent, regardless of how poor you were playing, the fact is a loss is a loss.

richw76
10-06-2007, 05:42 AM
I agree with you 100%. What are you saying to your opponent when you say he was not better than you when he beat you? You're putting his accomplishments down...it's just rude. If you lose to an opponent, regardless of how poor you were playing, the fact is a loss is a loss.

I used to play this kid sometimes in juniors. He was really annoying, yelling/mumbling argued everything right or wrong but the most annoying thing.

If you hit a winner he wouldn't say anything, If you hit a great shot, and caused an error....nothing. But, if he made an unforced error. He would say good shot or give a little clap.

I hated that guy :-)

Cindysphinx
10-06-2007, 01:58 PM
Any time Fed loses, he is losing to someone considered his inferior.

He doesn't seem too broken up about it!

I guess all we can say is they were Better On That Day.

WBF
10-06-2007, 02:24 PM
It's who *plays* better on a certain day.

Not who *is* better.

I played for college... A friend of mine found out, and tried to set up a match. I didn't really want to, so I set up a doubles match. In the middle of warming up, he asks me to go play him in a quick set. I go through the motions, a little bored, a little annoyed, etc. and lose 6-4 or some such score.

Time goes by. An odd circumstance leads to him joining the team and playing singles. Now whenever my name comes up, it's "I beat him!"

So, at the end of the season, when he's at the top of his game, I challenge him to a real match (only 2/3). I joke around and get his hopes up. I take the match 6-1, 6-0, 6-2 (He wanted a last chance...). It was great fun.

Now... Did he play better than me the day he beat me? Yes. Was he a better player? Hell no.

Regardless, it's very poor tact to discuss this if you do lose. Just get revenge the next time.

goober
10-06-2007, 02:48 PM
It's who *plays* better on a certain day.

Not who *is* better.

I played for college... A friend of mine found out, and tried to set up a match. I didn't really want to, so I set up a doubles match. In the middle of warming up, he asks me to go play him in a quick set. I go through the motions, a little bored, a little annoyed, etc. and lose 6-4 or some such score.

Time goes by. An odd circumstance leads to him joining the team and playing singles. Now whenever my name comes up, it's "I beat him!"

So, at the end of the season, when he's at the top of his game, I challenge him to a real match (only 2/3). I joke around and get his hopes up. I take the match 6-1, 6-0, 6-2 (He wanted a last chance...). It was great fun.

Now... Did he play better than me the day he beat me? Yes. Was he a better player? Hell no.

Regardless, it's very poor tact to discuss this if you do lose. Just get revenge the next time.

That's sounds very similar to the story in previous issue of tennis mag. The author beat some good player in a set when he was a kid. They were both good friends. He went around telling everybody that he beat him including some coaches. To make a long story short they no longer were friends after that incident and his friend challenged him one last time. The author got clobbered 6-0, 6-0. He lost a friend and he learned that bragging gets you no where. If you are good (at anything) people will find out.

Teh_pwnerer
10-06-2007, 03:34 PM
Occasionally you can lose to people that normally you would beat. This one woman I have played against every now and then for the past year, I'm like 15-1 (or 2) against her if I were to tally up all our matches. Usually I beat her around 6-2, 6-1, but 6 months ago she beat me once, and won a few sets off me in other matches around that time. I'm not sure what happened but I guess she found a weakness and I fixed it since then.

I beat a guy who was a whole NTRP level above me in a close match, only to find it was probably a fluke because he destroyed me in a re-match.

But even if you can beat someone over and over, it doesn't mean you are better than them, it just means your strategy is more effective against them than theirs is against you. Its possible they would beat many more people that can beat you so overall they are still probably better. Just look at Fed and Nadal as a perfect example. Fed is clearly better, but Nadal beats Fed more often than he loses to him.


And no1s better, nadal's spinny ballz to his backhand kill federer, so its the perfect xample i'd say

racquet_jedi
10-06-2007, 04:01 PM
So if losing to someone means their strategy is/was better than yours, then how accurate is the NTRP rating system then?

RoddickAce
10-06-2007, 04:24 PM
Losing to someone might also mean their style of playing counters your style...nadal-federer or blake-nadal, nadal has a winning record over fed, blake 3-0 against nadal(blakes favour), but federer has beaten blake numerous times. It is the style of playing. I used to always lose to a pusher with extremely horrible form, but he would lose to ppl I beat regularly. I respect the fact that he beat me, but I used to get so mad that I lost to some guy with extremely poor technique.(1 foot followthrough, lolz)I got past that, and that is a stage we all must pass.

power_play21
10-06-2007, 04:41 PM
you guys can argue whatever you want, but if you lose, you're worse, you win, you're better, and theres no going around that. people cite strategy, fitness, etc, as excuses to not be worse, but thats part of being better.

if you lose to someone, youre worse until you beat them. if you beat them, youre better. keep beating, keep the better status, lose, now youre worse. thats just the way it is.

Tennis_Monk
10-06-2007, 06:24 PM
some of these argumets are funny. really funny. In my college, i used to beat two player so consistently. we played for 2 full seasons and one of them managed win 1 match against me. Does it make him a better player than me on that day...YES. Overall i am the better player (period). That one day i lost, i was spanking routine shots all over and didnt have any gas to run around. Definitely not because my opponent was causing me fits. Credit to him that he was able to get ball in play and win the match. But that doesnt make him a better player than me overall (for that match..questionable but i will give it to him because scoreboard reads in his favor which is the objective of the game). May be it depends on the definition of "Better".

Word on excuses. I dont offer any excuses publicly. Ie i congratulate opponent and cite one or two good plays from him. In my mind i know why i lost(could be several reasons including opponent is simply overmatched, I wasnt fit enough, injury , etc etc) and they are valid points.

JavierLW
10-06-2007, 07:30 PM
Do you ever believe that if a person beat you once in a match, that person is a "better" tennis player than you, or your equal? In some cases this is true, such as a college player beating a person in JV High School tennis, but what about cases when you've been playing since you were 5 and you lose to someone that's only started playing for 6-12 months?

Time spent playing many times have nothing to do with it.

Ive been playing since High School myself, and I constantly see players who are at least as good as I can or even pass me up.

Sometimes they have a big advantage because the person who has been playing quite awhile may have developed a ton of bad habits that they are spending a lot of time getting rid of. And the person who just started may of learned from a good pro how to play efficently right from the start. That can give them a big advantage.

Plus if you throw High School kids in there. The ones in my club are pretty much the top HS kids in the whole state, and some of their HS's would probally beat some average or poor college teams out there. Those kids hit more balls in one week then most of us adults who have jobs do in months. (plus they play tournaments every single week as well as their normal match play)

There are a lot of these kids that I beat one year, but by the next year I dont have a chance.

racquet_jedi
10-06-2007, 07:33 PM
Ok, I'm just gonna live with the fact that our (me and the guy I lost to) "Head-to-head score" is 1-1 and that I can still change that to 2-1 in my favor.

Shashwat
10-08-2007, 08:55 AM
I have lost to some realllllly sucky players, everyone has bad days. But when i lose to someone better than me, i accept the fact that they are simply just better than me. But i get really mad when i lose to someone worse than me, i guess they were just the better player that day.

Frank Silbermann
10-08-2007, 07:34 PM
Even if a guy beats you, that doesn't necessarily mean he was better on that day. He might have been better only for those two hours that you played, but maybe wouldn't have won had you played earlier or later that day. Even then, he was probably better only for a little over half the time during that match -- you might have been better than him during 45% of the points.

racquet_jedi
10-08-2007, 08:38 PM
Ok, for everyone that's played pushers, were they all extremely nice/nice or something like they were described in one of the stickied threads?

z-money
10-08-2007, 09:00 PM
playing doesnt mean a thing all it is is a result a way of arguing who is better. I play my friends all the time. one has a serve i cant touch but sucks at groundies so he beats me in a tiebreaker every time. my other friend has awesome strokes but a weaker serve. and he hasent beaten me in a year and 3/4. so what im gonna say is it is how you match up and what you can handle and what they cant.

z-money
10-08-2007, 09:01 PM
tennis is a human chess match sometimes you need a different approach to the game to beat a different opponents.... whoa that sounded smart i should write that down j/k

35ft6
10-08-2007, 09:31 PM
If I don't play for 8 months or 2 years, I can lose to players I'm "better" than. Players I can smoke if I can practice for a few weeks. But usually I lose to people who are better. If you're playing regularly, there's really no excuse, especially if the person who beats you plays as infrequently as you do.

Techniques
10-09-2007, 03:19 AM
some of these argumets are funny. really funny. In my college, i used to beat two player so consistently. we played for 2 full seasons and one of them managed win 1 match against me. Does it make him a better player than me on that day...YES. Overall i am the better player (period). That one day i lost, i was spanking routine shots all over and didnt have any gas to run around. Definitely not because my opponent was causing me fits. Credit to him that he was able to get ball in play and win the match. But that doesnt make him a better player than me overall (for that match..questionable but i will give it to him because scoreboard reads in his favor which is the objective of the game). May be it depends on the definition of "Better".

Word on excuses. I dont offer any excuses publicly. Ie i congratulate opponent and cite one or two good plays from him. In my mind i know why i lost(could be several reasons including opponent is simply overmatched, I wasnt fit enough, injury , etc etc) and they are valid points.
Exactly what I do. I congratulate him etc but in my mind I know why I lost and usually recover from the loss and concentrate really hard to not make the mistakes I made last time.

baghdatis
10-09-2007, 03:46 AM
ive lost to worse players than myself, nothing really to be ashamed of, it happens to everyone.

It sure does happen to everyone! happened to me about 6 times in the past 4 months:sad:

dennis10is
10-14-2007, 07:34 PM
Most people over estimate their abilities and under estimate everybody else's.

If you lose, you say, they beat me on this day only but I'm still better than they are. This type of thinking just delay your improvement. Take every lost to heart and figure out why you lose. There is nothing ugly about losing, it is only ugly when you can't deal with it. It takes courage to play tough in stressful situation or when facing break points, set points, etc... It take even more courage, to be very honest and accurate about your own limitations and why you lose.

Competing is all about losing. If you compete, you will lose.

How many times have we been the person in the middle when both players would confide in us with both believing that they are truly and clearly the better player compared to the other? Somebody has got to be wrong right?

Tennis_Monk
10-14-2007, 08:03 PM
Most people over estimate their abilities and under estimate everybody else's.

If you lose, you say, they beat me on this day only but I'm still better than they are. This type of thinking just delay your improvement. Take every lost to heart and figure out why you lose. There is nothing ugly about losing, it is only ugly when you can't deal with it. It takes courage to play tough in stressful situation or when facing break points, set points, etc... It take even more courage, to be very honest and accurate about your own limitations and why you lose.

Competing is all about losing. If you compete, you will lose.

How many times have we been the person in the middle when both players would confide in us with both believing that they are truly and clearly the better player compared to the other? Somebody has got to be wrong right?


If i play with somebody and lose comprehensively (and i do lose to few players ) i have no problems admiting that. However, take this example.

I played this particular guy in the past 2 seasons atleast 2 times a week. In 2 yrs, he managed to win against me twice. Every other time, i beat him comprehensively with my latest streak running for 6 months. Why on the world would i think my opponent is better than me overall? No chance. He beat me on those two occasions because i sprayed my forehands all over and didnt have any gas to run. I congratulated him both times and praised his improvement. Has he improved really? atleast not that i , as an opponent on other side could detect.

In my opinion, publicly always give credit to winners. In private one knows why they lost. There is no shame in losing to better players and you can access if the opponent is better or not.

dennis10is
10-15-2007, 02:29 PM
If i play with somebody and lose comprehensively (and i do lose to few players ) i have no problems admiting that. However, take this example.

I played this particular guy in the past 2 seasons atleast 2 times a week. In 2 yrs, he managed to win against me twice. Every other time, i beat him comprehensively with my latest streak running for 6 months. Why on the world would i think my opponent is better than me overall? No chance. He beat me on those two occasions because i sprayed my forehands all over and didnt have any gas to run. I congratulated him both times and praised his improvement. Has he improved really? atleast not that i , as an opponent on other side could detect.

In my opinion, publicly always give credit to winners. In private one knows why they lost. There is no shame in losing to better players and you can access if the opponent is better or not.

My point would be did you accept the fact that you needed to concentrate on why did you spray your forehand on those two occasions? And is your fitness something that you think could be improved upon? Of course, you may have played 5 sets before that match, ran a marathon, whatever. My point was that you need to really study your loses and play devil's advocate and use it as the way to spot your own weaknesses.

I did not say that if someone beats you once that means they are better than you. But the rationalizing of why people loses, ******s progress, that is all.

There is another point, if you dominate someone so consistently, why are you still playing matches with him? It is not competing if the matches is not competitive? That too is a question for you right? If he is your practice partner and you are so better, wouldn't it have been more productive for you to play him while imposing a handicap like say you only play a certain way, work on your weaknesses. If you do that, his record against you would have been better but at least you get to work on improving your game rapidly.