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bagung
10-09-2007, 03:18 PM
tried the legend 18 in main, with iso-speed pro at 56/60lbs.
it plays stiffer and low powered than the legend 17g in main with the same hybrid and same tensions...
is it due to 18g ....?
is it normal...?
it even plays stiffer than armourpro 16g/iso hybrid at 54/60 lbs, and armourpro suppose to be stiffer gut than the legend....

NoBadMojo
10-09-2007, 04:08 PM
perfectly normal for the 18g legend. tons of bite/spin/pocketing..very crisp, and lower powered.

BMG
10-09-2007, 04:17 PM
I am not a huge string breaker so I am really looking to give this one a try. Do you think that it is too powerful with a full string job? I am aiming to try a BB11 with either a full gut or gut/multi setup. I just tried some poly's and a poly hybrid on a Prestige and now that the humidity is gone some Legend might be just what the doc ordered:D

6LOVE
10-09-2007, 06:51 PM
I used the full Legend 18 set up in a Radical MP at high tension for five years and liked it a lot (it was not too powerful). But when I switched to the PT 280 and lowered the tension the ball was flying. Rather than crank up the tension I switched to the Mojo hybrid (gut mains, ISO-Speed crosses) and love it (just enough power, tons of spin). So whether all gut is too powerful for you will depend on how tight you string it. Why not try both full gut and the hybrid set up?

bagung
10-09-2007, 06:56 PM
on my next string job, i will string the legend 18 at 54lbs , and iso cross at 60 lbs...

BMG
10-09-2007, 06:56 PM
I used the full Legend 18 set up in a Radical MP at high tension for five years and liked it a lot (it was not too powerful). But when I switched to the PT 280 and lowered the tension the ball was flying. Rather than crank up the tension I switched to the Mojo hybrid (gut mains, ISO-Speed crosses) and love it (just enough power, tons of spin). So whether all gut is too powerful for you will depend on how tight you string it. Why not try both full gut and the hybrid set up?

Yeah, good idea. I can get a couple of demos for this weekend from the local rep. Rather than use the supplied string jobs I think I will get them strung up per your recommendation. He already has Legend strings. I'll post a comparison (if anyone actually cares...;) ). Thanks

bagung
10-09-2007, 06:58 PM
Yeah, good idea. I can get a couple of demos for this weekend from the local rep. Rather than use the supplied string jobs I think I will get them strung up per your recommendation. He already has Legend strings. I'll post a comparison (if anyone actually cares...;) ). Thanks

please do....

andyluong2001
10-09-2007, 07:21 PM
Do you think the Legend 18g would work well with BB Alu Rough in mains and it in crosses? I currently use BB Alu Rough in Mains and VS team in cross but need more spin.

bagung
10-09-2007, 07:26 PM
have tried vs team 17g and legend 18g on the main of MOJO's hybrid. and found 18g gives better in spin... durability wise.....?
not sure in durability, as i am still playing my 18g , so far 6 hrs, still going strong..
VS team, i am getting 12-14 hrs of play...

scotus
10-09-2007, 09:00 PM
I have tried the Mojo hybrid with both 17 g and 18 g Legend.

To me 18 g was much softer and more responsive. I love the extra spin it produces, too.

Make sure you don't pre-stretch it, though.

The superior durability, of course, belongs to the 17 g, but the 18 g is pretty good, too. In fact, the 17 g lasts me longer than I would like.

samster
10-09-2007, 09:19 PM
Klip guts gotta be one of the most durable available.

DoubleHanded&LovinIt
10-09-2007, 09:38 PM
Interesting thing is if you look at the actual gauge measurement, it should be labeled 17 and not 18. My experience with Klip "18", 17 and 16 have all been poor in comparison to Babolat VS and Pacific Tough, Classic, and Prime.

bagung
10-09-2007, 10:33 PM
I have tried the Mojo hybrid with both 17 g and 18 g Legend.

To me 18 g was much softer and more responsive. I love the extra spin it produces, too.

Make sure you don't pre-stretch it, though.

The superior durability, of course, belongs to the 17 g, but the 18 g is pretty good, too. In fact, the 17 g lasts me longer than I would like.

on this hybrid with legend 18g on main, which one breaks first? the legend 18 main or the iso-speed pro in cross..........?

scotus
10-09-2007, 11:03 PM
on this hybrid with legend 18g on main, which one breaks first? the legend 18 main or the iso-speed pro in cross..........?

Legend got beat up first, but neither of them was broken before I replaced them. Lasted for 2 months playing 2X a week. Good enough for me, especially in light of the fact that PSGD lasts me 2 weeks playing like this.
By the way, I am not much of a string breaker, since I spend most of my time at the net.

rasajadad
10-10-2007, 05:19 AM
I have Legend 18 (full) in one of my frames and like it a lot. I think I'd love it if I strung it at around 57 (instead of 60). I have a couple of packs of Legend 17 that I am anxious to compare it to, but I don't have the heart to cut out my Armor Pro yet. FWIW, the Armor Pro with 3 and 5 months on them respectively look better than the Legend with 1 month on it.

bagung
10-10-2007, 06:36 AM
I have Legend 18 (full) in one of my frames and like it a lot. I think I'd love it if I strung it at around 57 (instead of 60). I have a couple of packs of Legend 17 that I am anxious to compare it to, but I don't have the heart to cut out my Armor Pro yet. FWIW, the Armor Pro with 3 and 5 months on them respectively look better than the Legend with 1 month on it.

no doubt about it, armourpro is the better in durability and for value...
since i always prefer to hybrid the gut with iso in cross, and iso always break first; therefore looking for the cheaper gut alternatives....
so far had try almost all different guts, and have settle between the legend 17g, 18g and armourpro.

rasajadad
10-10-2007, 11:29 AM
no doubt about it, armourpro is the better in durability and for value...
since i always prefer to hybrid the gut with iso in cross, and iso always break first; therefore looking for the cheaper gut alternatives....
so far had try almost all different guts, and have settle between the legend 17g, 18g and armourpro.

bagung- I am in exactly the same spot. I've tried Wilson, VS, Pacific, Gamma and Klip is my "IT".

scotus
10-10-2007, 01:03 PM
Hey guys,

I have a brand-new pack of Legend 17 g that I would like to trade for Legend 18 g (in brand-new condition). If interested, please contact me at asyluke@yahoo.com.

Pro_Tour_630
10-10-2007, 06:15 PM
Klip 18g NG went flat on me, did not like it, biphase 18g is much better and 1/2 the price

6LOVE
10-12-2007, 04:24 AM
Klip 18g NG went flat on me, did not like it, biphase 18g is much better and 1/2 the price

How does the power of the Biphase compare to the Klip? I find the Klip 18 in my PT 280 (at 55 lb) too powerful, that's why I switched to the hybrid with ISO-Speed Pro crosses (at 61 lb). Have you tried Biphase in a hybrid?

AndrewD
10-12-2007, 04:37 AM
Klip 18g NG went flat on me, did not like it, biphase 18g is much better and 1/2 the price

Never had the slightest problem with Klip Legend 18g and consider the Biphase a very average string in comparison.

rasajadad
10-12-2007, 04:52 AM
Personally, I never liked the break-in period on the X-1. For me, the first two hours on a freshly strung racquet should be the best.

FWIW I just restrung so I can now compare Legend 17 and Legend 18. I'm hitting at lunch today so I'll let you know how it goes.

bagung
10-12-2007, 06:24 AM
x-1 biphase is not one of my favorite.... just do not like it....
multi just cannot replced the gut, and not even close

NoBadMojo
10-12-2007, 09:14 AM
I agree with you guys saying the BiPhase is a very average string especially for the money. You certainly cant compare it to any decent gut.

They did fix the NRG2 probs with this string (durability and tension loss) but they drained it of playability in the process I think

rasajadad
10-12-2007, 01:21 PM
I hit 1 1/2 hours today with my Redondo mids. One strung last night with 17g at 57, the other strung 3 weeks ago with 18g at 60. Here are my preferences:
Feel- 17 g softer, 18g crisper
Touch at net- 17g
Serves- 17g more power, 18g more spin
Groundies- Better control w/ 18g

bagung
10-12-2007, 05:11 PM
I hit 1 1/2 hours today with my Redondo mids. One strung last night with 17g at 57, the other strung 3 weeks ago with 18g at 60. Here are my preferences:
Feel- 17 g softer, 18g crisper
Touch at net- 17g
Serves- 17g more power, 18g more spin
Groundies- Better control w/ 18g

yes... i found the 18g is crisper , less power than the 17g.....
i am planning to reduce the tensions of 18g compare to 17g....

bagung
10-12-2007, 05:19 PM
I agree with you guys saying the BiPhase is a very average string especially for the money. You certainly cant compare it to any decent gut.

They did fix the NRG2 probs with this string (durability and tension loss) but they drained it of playability in the process I think

NBMJ,
i love the gut in main... by trying alot of different multi such as excellerator, 850 pro feel, x-1, venom, nrg2, nothing even comes close to it...
your set up of gut/iso, is the best that i have tried...
i am now using armourpro/iso, legend 18/iso, legend 17/iso , full armourpro on my 4 dnx-10 mid. the gut/iso hybrid is better than full gut too....

Pro_Tour_630
10-13-2007, 06:51 AM
this thread is about my Klip 18g going dead, like I said for the 1/2 the cost I can have two Biphase (which is a TRUE 18g) play better for a longer period of time than Klip 18g (even though it is one of thinner natural guts)

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=122356&highlight=dead

I only had one experience with Klip 18g and it was enough, maybe it was strung tighter which is why I had this problem. Similar to Rabbit.

If you want to spend the money on Natural gut why not just go with the best, Pacific. It is superior to Klip Natural gut.

anyway this is another interesting Klip 18g thread

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=99569&highlight=resilient

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=131004

NoBadMojo
10-13-2007, 07:36 AM
this thread is about my Klip 18g going dead, like I said for the 1/2 the cost I can have two Biphase (which is a TRUE 18g) play better for a longer period of time than Klip 18g (even though it is one of thinner natural guts)

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=122356&highlight=dead

I only had one experience with Klip 18g and it was enough, maybe it was strung tighter which is why I had this problem. Similar to Rabbit.

If you want to spend the money on Natural gut why not just go with the best, Pacific. It is superior to Klip Natural gut.

anyway this is another interesting Klip 18g thread

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=99569&highlight=resilient

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=131004

dont know that people are going to visit the threads you are dropping in, but you seem to be very much alone in your eval of bi-phase which has nothing to do with this thread. glad you think pacific is superior to klip..suggest you use the pacific....likely people wont think pacific is superior to legend based upon nobody agreeing with your assessment of biphase

Pro_Tour_630
10-13-2007, 07:40 AM
You are still around? I though you left, oh no, you came back then left then came back, make up your mind, please do not reply or even comment on my posts, got it!

NoBadMojo
10-13-2007, 07:43 AM
I hit 1 1/2 hours today with my Redondo mids. One strung last night with 17g at 57, the other strung 3 weeks ago with 18g at 60. Here are my preferences:
Feel- 17 g softer, 18g crisper
Touch at net- 17g
Serves- 17g more power, 18g more spin
Groundies- Better control w/ 18g

yes... i found the 18g is crisper , less power than the 17g.....
i am planning to reduce the tensions of 18g compare to 17g....

those are accurate perceptions as to how the strings play. the touch at net is of course subjective

NBMJ,
i love the gut in main... by trying alot of different multi such as excellerator, 850 pro feel, x-1, venom, nrg2, nothing even comes close to it...
your set up of gut/iso, is the best that i have tried...
i am now using armourpro/iso, legend 18/iso, legend 17/iso , full armourpro on my 4 dnx-10 mid. the gut/iso hybrid is better than full gut too....

best that i have tried as well, and better than straight gut. the only downside (for me) is that i dont like the little bit of extra swingweight it adds..some may not even notice. other than that, people seem to really like the legend/iso setup both for playability over the entire life of the strings and durability

Pro_Tour_630
10-13-2007, 07:46 AM
This thread is about Klip 18g and it stinks compared to all the gut I have tried. I am suggesting that if one wants to save few bucks and have a decent feeling 18g string Biphase is second to none, period for the money. If you want to go ahead and spend big bucks why not spend it on pacific 18g that is if you can get it.

Anyway here is a chart to prove that bihapse 18g is very close to natural gut group in the universe of strings out there. As for tension loss it is the same as Klip NG if not better. As for actual play tests. Bipahse 18g felt less stiffer than Klip18g which felt like a stiff chicken wire then dead to me.

http://i22.tinypic.com/2rygke9.jpg

NoBadMojo
10-13-2007, 07:48 AM
You are still around? I though you left, oh no, you came back then left then came back, make up your mind, please do not reply or even comment on my posts, got it!

your post doesnt deserve a comment other than to say that in another thread you welcomed me back. you're all over the place. dont think people are buyin what your sellin
it really is funny that you would instruct me not to respond to anything you post..got a chuckle out of that one.

Pro_Tour_630
10-13-2007, 09:00 AM
your post doesnt deserve a comment other than to say that in another thread you welcomed me back. you're all over the place. dont think people are buyin what your sellin
it really is funny that you would instruct me not to respond to anything you post..got a chuckle out of that one.


Hey ed, you are here on a limited basis remember that, not by me, you said it yourself. According to YOU, If someone asks you a question then you will reply, got it!. Do not abuse your return and spare us again with another one of your crocodial tear fairwell goodbye thread which you had the moderator delet.

The second I criticised Klip you were all over my post and could not resist. What would you do if I dared criticize Volkl or are you emotionally over that? LOL

Update regarding criticizing volkl, you could not resist

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=1806910&postcount=26

NoBadMojo
10-13-2007, 09:15 AM
Hey ed, you are here on a limited basis remember that, not by me, you said it yourself. According to YOU, If someone asks you a question then you will reply, got it!. Do not abuse your return and spare us again with another one of your crocodial tear fairwell goodbye thread which you had the moderator delet.

The second I criticised Klip you were all over my post and could not resist. What would you do if I dared criticize Volkl or are you emotionally over that? LOL

i'll respond to whatever posts i wish to respond to. actually what we were doing here was criticizing biPhase..everyone was save for YOU..message in there. also, you admitted you may have strung the legend18 too tightly..you like doing exhaustive searches <many of which are your very own posts>..if you would have searched on this string you may have learned something before you strung it up all wrong. people can criticize whatever they wish to criticize including Klip , Volkl, BiPhase, etc..if their criticism is off base <like yours>, they should expect to be countered.
you counter with personal affronts..i counter with information about the products..big difference there
your insults are really unwarranted and unecessary and way off base. i didnt have that thread deleted by the mods..i didnt even read that thread , so you are also way wrong about that too. slander and flame and lie on..it doesnt look good on you. you're ruining another otherwise useful thread..nice work there. bye now.

Pro_Tour_630
10-13-2007, 09:30 AM
ed in that goodbye "Bye Now" thread you said you will post and answer only to people who post questions at you. What happend? you had an epipheny! We all know you, we dont blame you, you will never change, it is who you are:

NoBadMojo
10-13-2007, 09:46 AM
ed in that goodbye "Bye Now" thread you said you will post and answer only to people who post questions at you. What happend? you had an epipheny! We all know you, we dont blame you, you will never change, it is who you are:

instead of being obsessively fixated on me, i suggest you direct your energy elsewhere

Pro_Tour_630
10-13-2007, 09:48 AM
instead of being obsessively fixated on me, i suggest you direct your energy elsewhere

same to you ed, We are your nightmare and hell on TW, you said it, not me

nickb
10-13-2007, 12:00 PM
dont know that people are going to visit the threads you are dropping in, but you seem to be very much alone in your eval of bi-phase which has nothing to do with this thread. glad you think pacific is superior to klip..suggest you use the pacific....likely people wont think pacific is superior to legend based upon nobody agreeing with your assessment of biphase

Why do you push your strings and racquet choice on people so much?....it is possible that somebody has a different opinion to YOU....it also seems you take every opinion as a personal attack....

I like X-One Biphase the same as gut.....OMG I dont use klip legend mains and iso pro crosses!!...shoot me!

AndrewD
10-13-2007, 01:50 PM
If you want to spend the money on Natural gut why not just go with the best, Pacific. It is superior to Klip Natural gut.

My clubmates and I were keen for Pacific to be a quality string (as it used to be in the 80's) as we have much greater access to it than BDE, Bab or Bow. Unfortunately, they didn't perform very well for any of us - certainly not to the level claimed on this message board.

In short, Pacific lacked the overall performance of Klip. Even when taking into account individual tastes and personal biases towards one brand or another, Pacific just didn't last as long as Klip. If I knew I wasn't going to be getting longevity in a natural gut I'd be choosing Babolat or BDE (my favourite for performance), both of which I believe to be infinitely better than Pacific (and BDE is much better value).

Regardless, one experience isn't enough to make any worthwhile comment about a string, except to say you had a bad experience. It happens, especially if you have issues in the stringing.

Rory G
10-13-2007, 02:10 PM
I don't think there is a real answer on this one because the opinions are so varied...and each opinion is equally credible. First of all, I like BiPhase 18 for a good multi string. I also like Klip Excellerator 17g. When it comes to gut strings I tested many during the past year + along with other members of my USTA team (4.5 doubles - straight string jobs and hybrids). The consensus was pretty much that VS, Pacific and BDE were in the first tier and played the best. Klip and Bow were not as well liked and a couple of us did not get as much string life out of the Klip Legend. These experiences don't mean anything other than they are my experiences, along with a few others at my club. For the money I would either go up and spend for Bab or Pacific or just go for value and string with BiPhase or Excellerator. Personally I have come to like a quality gut in the mains (VS or Pacific) and a synthetic like Gosen in the crosses. That is the best setup and a good price for me and that is what matters most..;)

NoBadMojo
10-13-2007, 05:21 PM
There's tons of positive posts about Klip Legend. It hits the sweetspot of price/performence/value/durability. So does BDE Perf. These two strings play differently. The Legend more crisply and less powerfully and less springy. I like that because I like a crisp playing gut and like that I dont have to string as tightly for control. Others may like a softer feel, tighter tension, and a more jumpy stringbed..that calls for BDE Perf. Beyween those two strings you've got it all covered in traditional gut.

I have found there are lots of bad stringjobs out there. The Legend isnt one of those strings you can get away with stringing too tightly nor can you get away with prestretching it too hard..that results in a not so good playing string. This is something that happens as evidenced by this thread and others...someone tries the Legend once strung improperly and declares it as crap. For example, there are many stringers who dont know what 58 pounds of tension is suppose to be like.

The other guts strings? VS is nice. very consistent and perfect cosmetically. it's very jumpy and not very durable..and it's really expensive. some would like that. Bow Brand was a real value until a whopping price increase and a dump in quality...havent played it for a long time so dont know how the quality is these days. These are the significant players.

Generally I would avoid the lesser quality strings from companies that offer two grades. that rules out Tonic, BDE Ralley, etc. i would also avoid gut strings made by one company and branded with another brand. gamma and wilson.

BMG
10-13-2007, 07:07 PM
I finally got a chance to hit with Legend 18 today but in all fairness I was also testing a new stick as well (BB11 standard). I had it strung at about 57 lbs. and the string provided good bite on the ball but it was not exceptional based on my usage of other guts or even some high end multis. The power that I hoped to find with this gut, based on other gut experiences, just wasn't there...and I usually string at 60 or 61 lbs. and have enough power. I will check with the stringer re: any prestretching that he did to see if that effected the performance based on NBM's feedback. A better test of this string might be on a racquet that I am much more familiar with..the LM Prestige MP. I might give this a try to give the Legend a fair shake.

bagung
10-13-2007, 10:04 PM
yes.. i think it is better to test it one changes at a time...
putting legend 18 in your familiar frame is the only way to tell the diffrence....

scotus
10-13-2007, 10:15 PM
I have found there are lots of bad stringjobs out there. The Legend isnt one of those strings you can get away with stringing too tightly nor can you get away with prestretching it too hard..that results in a not so good playing string. This is something that happens as evidenced by this thread and others...someone tries the Legend once strung improperly and declares it as crap. For example, there are many stringers who dont know what 58 pounds of tension is suppose to be like.

I had really bad experience with Legend 17g prestretched (at the pro shop). It played nothing like natural gut, boardy and stiff. The only thing going for it was durability.

These days I tell the stringer specifically not to prestretch it. Unless you know exactly how much to prestretch, it is better not to prestretch it at all. You can probably compensate for it by raising the tension by a pound or so.

bagung
10-13-2007, 10:17 PM
I had really bad experience with Legend 17g prestretched (at the pro shop). It played nothing like natural gut, boardy and stiff. The only thing going for it was durability.

These days I tell the stringer specifically not to prestretch it. Unless you know exactly how much to prestretch, it is better not to prestretch it at all. You can probably compensate for it by raising the tension by a pound or so.

YES.. I AGREE...
it is more safe not to prestretch....

Pro_Tour_630
10-14-2007, 08:35 AM
Pacific lacked the overall performance of Klip. Pacific just didn't last as long as Klip. If I knew I wasn't going to be getting longevity in a natural gut I'd be choosing Babolat or BDE (my favourite for performance), both of which I believe to be infinitely better than Pacific (and BDE is much better value).



If you are looking for longevity then Pacific is not for you. If a string lasts a long time and very durable, then chances are that it is not going to perform well (poly and kevlar comes to mind) But that is just me. The reason Klip NG 18g lasts because it is not really a thin 18g it is more like a 17L mm and could not be compared to true 18g which are less than 1.20mm. Same for other NG they are thicker by .2mm than their counter parts which is why they are durable, sneaky if you ask me.

May I ask which Pacific and if you have tried Pacific Prime?

Pro_Tour_630
10-14-2007, 08:41 AM
I personally strung Klip 18g once and declared it crap only after few times TW strung it for me on a 19.99 sucker special on few rackets and the many bad reviews here on TW. So now TW stringers do not follow what 58lbs means I suppose. I guess one has to have a PHD in stringing to string Klip Gut properly, oh well.

samster
10-14-2007, 10:23 AM
Why is 1.20 mm (Legend 18 ) not a true 18 gauge? Babolat's 18 gauge is 1.20 mm and Pacific's 18 gauge is 1.19 mm. I am a little confused here.

NoBadMojo
10-14-2007, 10:36 AM
this thread is about my Klip 18g going dead, like I said for the 1/2 the cost I can have two Biphase (which is a TRUE 18g) play better for a longer period of time than Klip 18g (even though it is one of thinner natural guts)

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=122356&highlight=dead

I only had one experience with Klip 18g and it was enough, maybe it was strung tighter which is why I had this problem. Similar to Rabbit.

If you want to spend the money on Natural gut why not just go with the best, Pacific. It is superior to Klip Natural gut.

anyway this is another interesting Klip 18g thread

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=99569&highlight=resilient

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=131004

I personally strung Klip 18g once and declared it crap only after few times TW strung it for me on a 19.99 sucker special on few rackets and the many bad reviews here on TW. So now TW stringers do not follow what 58lbs means I suppose. I guess one has to have a PHD in stringing to string Klip Gut properly, oh well.

Have quoted your posts above highlighting the operative words which don't match up well at all. Think that when a poster says they only had one experience with a product folks would take that to mean they only had one experience with a product, and not several experiences with a product

Didnt hear anyone saying that TW doesnt know what 58 means.

if when people ask for 58 and a modern high end stringing machine is used set at 58, they are most likely going to end up with a stringjob that is significantly more than what the relative tension of 58 is. Good stringers would know to maybe set their machine setting for 53 as an example knowing that their modern high end machine strings significantly tighter given the relative reference tension. lots of good strings get ruined by bad stringjobs (I'm not saying that TW doesnt know what they are doing) and good strings are then declared as crap

Rabbit
10-14-2007, 10:53 AM
if when people ask for 58 and a modern high end stringing machine is used set at 58, they are most likely going to end up with a stringjob that is significantly more than what the relative tension of 58 is. Good stringers would know to maybe set their machine setting for 53 as an example knowing that their modern high end machine strings significantly tighter given the relative reference tension. lots of good strings get ruined by bad stringjobs (I'm not saying that TW doesnt know what they are doing) and good strings are then declared as crap


I have read this thread with some amusement. But, I am now thoroughly confused. I have never, in the 25 years that I've been stringing, backed a requested tension down. Nor have I ever known any other stringer, regardless of machine, do do the same. In other words, if a player comes to me or any other stringer that I know of and states what tension they want, that's what they get. To do otherwise is beyond presumptious. Maybe we should define "modern high end stringing machine". I'm sure there are those who wouldn't refer to a Prince Neos as "modern high end", but I consider it the defacto stringing machine for most every pro shop I've ever been in. They are reliable, accurate, and tough and probably the best selling machine in the States. I bought one to string for myself and a few friends. So, for a personal stringing machine, it beats the hell out of a drop weight. Before anyone jumps ugly with me, I strung on a Gamma Dropweight for 5 years until I decided what the hell, get a decent machine.

When I strung my rackets on a drop weight, the reference tension I used was 65. When I moved to the Neos, that number became 58. I remember distinctly because the reference tension of the frames I strung was substantially higher with the Neos, but that was just the difference in machines.

Tension is just a number. The actual tension changes depending on what string you use. For instance, when I used a multi, I strung my frames at 58. Mutlis lose tension quicker than gut. Now that I use gut, which maintains tension really well, I string my frames at 54 and the crosses at 51.

When I used TiMo, I strung my frames at 54. TiMo doesn't hold tension as well as Xtreme, and when I began using Xtreme, I started off at 54, but eventually backed it down to 51 because it holds tension better than TiMo. Both strings are stiff and require less tension for my game.

With regard to Klip 18, I had basically the same experience as Michael Chaho did although I don't agree that Klip 18 is crap. The string started off great, but did go dead. It frayed terribly at the center and really lost that special feel that gut has. I also think Klip 18 is really a 17, check the gauge against a true 18.

In my experience, Klip doesn't last as long as Pacific or BDE or Babolat. Klip tends to start losing feel when the fraying gets bad. So then, for my money, the best but is the gut that lasts longest and by my definition, that is the gut that doesn't lose its playabilty. I've been a consistent Pacific user since late 80s (when I could get it), and now that it's in stock full time, I'll be using it from here on. If anyone cares to verify, they can go to the Read Feeback section for Pacific Prime. To save you some time, here's what you'll find:

Comments: Pacific Prime plays firmer than its French counterparts. I like the firmer feel and find it to be a superior product. It strings easily, although you still have to be careful with kinking, and durability is great. Pacific gut plays firm and retains tension until it breaks. The firmness of Pacific lends itself to better control, in my opinion. Price/performance, you can't beat Pacific.
From: Robert, USA. 12/03

NoBadMojo
10-14-2007, 12:12 PM
I have read this thread with some amusement. But, I am now thoroughly confused. I have never, in the 25 years that I've been stringing, backed a requested tension down. Nor have I ever known any other stringer, regardless of machine, do do the same. In other words, if a player comes to me or any other stringer that I know of and states what tension they want, that's what they get. To do otherwise is beyond presumptious. Maybe we should define "modern high end stringing machine". I'm sure there are those who wouldn't refer to a Prince Neos as "modern high end", but I consider it the defacto stringing machine for most every pro shop I've ever been in. They are reliable, accurate, and tough and probably the best selling machine in the States. I bought one to string for myself and a few friends. So, for a personal stringing machine, it beats the hell out of a drop weight. Before anyone jumps ugly with me, I strung on a Gamma Dropweight for 5 years until I decided what the hell, get a decent machine.

When I strung my rackets on a drop weight, the reference tension I used was 65. When I moved to the Neos, that number became 58. I remember distinctly because the reference tension of the frames I strung was substantially higher with the Neos, but that was just the difference in machines.

Tension is just a number. The actual tension changes depending on what string you use. For instance, when I used a multi, I strung my frames at 58. Mutlis lose tension quicker than gut. Now that I use gut, which maintains tension really well, I string my frames at 54 and the crosses at 51.

When I used TiMo, I strung my frames at 54. TiMo doesn't hold tension as well as Xtreme, and when I began using Xtreme, I started off at 54, but eventually backed it down to 51 because it holds tension better than TiMo. Both strings are stiff and require less tension for my game.

With regard to Klip 18, I had basically the same experience as Michael Chaho did although I don't agree that Klip 18 is crap. The string started off great, but did go dead. It frayed terribly at the center and really lost that special feel that gut has. I also think Klip 18 is really a 17, check the gauge against a true 18.

In my experience, Klip doesn't last as long as Pacific or BDE or Babolat. Klip tends to start losing feel when the fraying gets bad. So then, for my money, the best but is the gut that lasts longest and by my definition, that is the gut that doesn't lose its playabilty. I've been a consistent Pacific user since late 80s (when I could get it), and now that it's in stock full time, I'll be using it from here on. If anyone cares to verify, they can go to the Read Feeback section for Pacific Prime. To save you some time, here's what you'll find:

Comments: Pacific Prime plays firmer than its French counterparts. I like the firmer feel and find it to be a superior product. It strings easily, although you still have to be careful with kinking, and durability is great. Pacific gut plays firm and retains tension until it breaks. The firmness of Pacific lends itself to better control, in my opinion. Price/performance, you can't beat Pacific.

From: Robert, USA. 12/03

sorry you dont understand what i posted. i thought it was pretty clear. perhaps a qualified stringer or two will drop in and maybe you will believe them.
i change tensions from what people ask for all the time if i am presented with a frame with broken strings. i know what 58 should be like. it could go either way depending upon what stringing machine i am working on or it could be a setting of 58, but these days I only string my own frames on a cheesy drop weight stringer

you're saying i am wrong but then agreeing with me.

so glad you find this all amusing.

dont quite understand your need to drop in one piece of feedback on Pacific as though one piece of feedback is difinitive. this thread is about Klip legend gut. so one piece of feedback from some dude named Rober from some 4 years ago is quite a testimony. your posts these days smack of desperation and people are on to the fact that you have an affiliation w. Pacific along with your buddy Tom. posting in this manner isnt helping your cause. just because you are involved with pacific and declare it the best obviously doesnt make it so. there's lots of information to indicate otherwise which any forum follower can see
There's tons of great feedback in the forum about Klip strings and it is unfortunate you are turning this into some sort of personal war which i havent been engaging you in..one only has to see how much time you've spent to try and bust me on a piece of minutia involving the mojo setup on this very same forum page to see

Rabbit
10-14-2007, 12:45 PM
No, I don't agree with you. I think any stringer who changes tension based on a "hunch" is presumptuous and looking for a dissatisfied customer.

I gave feedback because MC mentioned other guts. I also included BDE and Babolat in my sentence, something which you clearly omit. With regard to what I think is best, well that's usually indicated with IMO, which it is. I also think the C10 is the best frame around and yes, I'm hooked on Pacific string because I like them.

And, my first name is Robert and the feedback is mine. Back in '03, TW e-mailed me and asked me to post the feedack about Pacific gut because I was a buyer and had been posting on it.

Nice try, but really who's desperate for credibility these days?

BMG
10-14-2007, 01:11 PM
I had my second hit today with a Klip Legend 18g setup (57 lbs) and am really warming up to it. Moving inside today away from the windy/cool conditions really gave me a better environment to judge the strings. Along with the nice bite on the ball I was able to create some sick spin and the control was much better. A very crisp, consistent stringbed. For the money, at this point, I will definitely give the string a second look - both in hybrid and straight string setups. I probably posted too soon re: my feedback with this string yesterday because of the weather conditions and the new racquet. I will also string up my LM Prestige with the Legend to compare how it plays vs my regular setup. If it continues to play like today than this string might be a great value (and also save my arm in the process). Funny how so many variables can effect how the strings, racquet, AND player performs. Oh well.:(

NoBadMojo
10-14-2007, 01:26 PM
I had my second hit today with a Klip Legend 18g setup (57 lbs) and am really warming up to it. Moving inside today away from the windy/cool conditions really gave me a better environment to judge the strings. Along with the nice bite on the ball I was able to create some sick spin and the control was much better. A very crisp, consistent stringbed. For the money, at this point, I will definitely give the string a second look - both in hybrid and straight string setups. I probably posted too soon re: my feedback with this string yesterday because of the weather conditions and the new racquet. I will also string up my LM Prestige with the Legend to compare how it plays vs my regular setup. If it continues to play like today than this string might be a great value (and also save my arm in the process). Funny how so many variables can effect how the strings, racquet, AND player performs. Oh well.:(

this matches what most of us experience. if you are up for continuing your experiment and you want a little more juice, try the Legend17. it's also a little softer feeling and not quite as much bite.

AndrewD
10-14-2007, 03:34 PM
If you are looking for longevity then Pacific is not for you. If a string lasts a long time and very durable, then chances are that it is not going to perform well (poly and kevlar comes to mind) But that is just me. The reason Klip NG 18g lasts because it is not really a thin 18g it is more like a 17L mm and could not be compared to true 18g which are less than 1.20mm. Same for other NG they are thicker by .2mm than their counter parts which is why they are durable, sneaky if you ask me.

May I ask which Pacific and if you have tried Pacific Prime?

That isn't correct at all. Just because a string is durable doesn't mean it won't perform well. Of course it is most likely that the string will lose feel before it might break. However, that most certainly does not mean that while it has optimum feel it won't perform well - quite the contrary.

I expect gut to maintain its playability (within reason) up until breaking. The general consensus among the players at our club is that Klip Legend does that right across the board (regardless of gauge) and provides greater longevity than other brands. Of the natural gut strings we've tried - used by 10 players experienced with nat.gut (most using it 15-20 years, a couple using it for 25-35 years) - Klip Armour Pro came first for longevity, followed by Klip Legend, BDE, Pacific TG, Pacific Prime, Babolat VS and Bow. For performance it was; Babolat VS, BDE Perf, Klip Legend, Pacific Prime, Bow, Armour Pro and Pacific TG.

We have used Pacific Prime in both 17g and 16g, as well as Pacific TG in 17g and 16g. Other than that brand we've tested Babolat VS Natural Team Gut 17, VS Natural ThermoGut 16 Touch, BDE Performance 17 and 16g, Bow Brand 17, 16L and three tried 18g, KLIP Armour Pro 17 and 16g, KLIP Legend 17, 16 and four tried 18g. While a few of the testers felt that Babolat VS might be worth splurging on occasionally, they believed there was absolutley nothing about the Pacific that would motivate them to choose it over a lower priced 'quality' option (not counting 2nd grade gut with variable gauge).

As to whether Klip 18g is a 'true' 18g, I really couldn't care less as all we're talking about is the string's performance. I would imagine, however, that Klip rate any string of 1.20 mm or less as an 18g and that seems perfectly consistent with other manufacturers (apart from Wilson which rates a few strings of 1.21mm+ as 18g -Stamina, NXT Tour and Enduro Pro). Babolat Pro Hurricane 17g is 1.25mm and Pro Hurricane 18g is 1.20mm - Klip K-Boom 17g is 1.25mm and K-Boom 18g is 1.20mm.

Pro_Tour_630
10-14-2007, 03:42 PM
Have quoted your posts above highlighting the operative words which don't match up well at all. Think that when a poster says they only had one experience with a product folks would take that to mean they only had one experience with a product, and not several experiences with a product



ONE EXPERIENCE...................STRINGING IT MY SELF!! WHAT PART OF THAT DONT YOU UNDERSTAND?????? THE OTHERS WERE FROM TW STRINGING FEW KLIP NATURAL GUT FOR ME RAQUETS. I STILL HAVE FEW SETS AND I AM VOMITING EVERY TIME I SEEM THEM LYING AROUND IN FRONT OF MY FACE. I AM ABOUT TO TRADE THEM FOR JUST ABOUT ANYTHING (EVEN CHICKEN WIRE)

Pro_Tour_630
10-14-2007, 03:43 PM
Why is 1.20 mm (Legend 18 ) not a true 18 gauge? Babolat's 18 gauge is 1.20 mm and Pacific's 18 gauge is 1.19 mm. I am a little confused here.

because all the rest are lying to you. they are not true 18g, only strings that are below 1.20mm are considered 18g. 1.20mm is consider 17L we have been through this a million times on this board.

Pro_Tour_630
10-14-2007, 03:50 PM
As to whether Klip 18g is a 'true' 18g, I really couldn't care less as all we're talking about is the string's performance. I would imagine, however, that Klip rate any string of 1.20 mm or less as an 18g and that seems perfectly consistent with other manufacturers (apart from Wilson which rates a few strings of 1.21mm+ as 18g -Stamina, NXT Tour and Enduro Pro). Babolat Pro Hurricane 17g is 1.25mm and Pro Hurricane 18g is 1.20mm - Klip K-Boom 17g is 1.25mm and K-Boom 18g is 1.20mm.

Everything you said is your experience of course mine and others of the boards are not the same. As for the Klip 18g, like I said they are lying to you about it being 18g when in fact is is not like the rest of the manufactures are doing, anything that is 1.20mm is considered 17L but never a true 18g. Your reference above only proves my point. The fact still remains thicker strings last longer and have lower performance (less feel, less power, less spin) than a thinner string, all else being equal.

NoBadMojo
10-14-2007, 03:53 PM
I had really bad experience with Legend 17g prestretched (at the pro shop). It played nothing like natural gut, boardy and stiff. The only thing going for it was durability.

These days I tell the stringer specifically not to prestretch it. Unless you know exactly how much to prestretch, it is better not to prestretch it at all. You can probably compensate for it by raising the tension by a pound or so.

exactly...and nothing worse than the double whammy of too hard a prestretch combined with too tight a tension...sucks the playability and performance right out of a string..more so with a crisp playing gut like the Klip....better to not prestretch at all rather than prestretch wrong

The Klip definitely should only get a gentle prestretch unless someone is into boardy and unresponsive especially with their 18g.

Pro_Tour_630
10-14-2007, 04:03 PM
With regard to Klip 18, I had basically the same experience as Michael Chaho did although I don't agree that Klip 18 is crap. The string started off great, but did go dead. It frayed terribly at the center and really lost that special feel that gut has. I also think Klip 18 is really a 17, check the gauge against a true 18.



Rabbit your are being politically nice, your experience is alot like mine and many TW forum members who have used this string. FACT is klip frys then goes DEAD pretty quick. call it what you want to call it.

I would like to add that Klip natual gut is very inconsistent when it comes to gauge diameter throughout the string. I have a digital caliper and I have measured it and it is inconsistent. Hey it is natural after all it should be. But when you are dealing with the best like PACIFIC TOURNAMENT PRIME OR VS, the guage is more consistent throughout the string. That is the difference.

robkat
10-14-2007, 04:07 PM
I have been a Klip Legend 18g user for 2 1/2 years. I absolutely love it. I initially started to use the 17g on a TF 315, it played well but felt a little bit stiff. It is possible that it was prestretched by the stringer too much. I switched to 18g and started to string myself following the prestretching advice on similar posts like this one. I played the 18g on Vantage frames, and now a dunlop frame. I love the bite and feel. I have tried the 18g in a hybrid but prefer a full 18g string bed. I have yet to try the MoJo hybrid but will do so in the future. I love the ball feel on the string bed, it feels like I'm actually catching and throwing the ball with any amount of topspin,slice I want to apply to the ball.
As far as the 18g specs of 1.20mm, whether it is a true 18g or a 17L it doesn't matter to me. If it was marketed as a 17Lg I would still be using it. MC has argued this point ever since I have been a member of this board which has been over 8 years.

Pro_Tour_630
10-14-2007, 04:10 PM
The Klip definitely should only get a gentle prestretch unless someone is into boardy and unresponsive especially with their 18g.

I do have to admit that my constant pull does string few lbs more. I did not pre stretch it and it was too crisp then fryed and felt dead in a very short period. Not sure what TW did or what machine they used or if some kid strung it, I don't know. All I know the frames I got from TW were unresponsive and boardy from the get go. This was my experience and I am sticking by it.

Pro_Tour_630
10-14-2007, 04:12 PM
.
As far as the 18g specs of 1.20mm, whether it is a true 18g or a 17L it doesn't matter to me. If it was marketed as a 17Lg I would still be using it. MC has argued this point ever since I have been a member of this board which has been over 8 years.

Glad you liked it, you at least know that it is not a true 18g and are not fooling yourself into believing it is 18g when in fact it is not. When you play with a true 18g pacific prime or VS if you can find them, let us know what you think.

scotus
10-14-2007, 04:52 PM
I have been a Klip Legend 18g user for 2 1/2 years. I absolutely love it. I initially started to use the 17g on a TF 315, it played well but felt a little bit stiff. It is possible that it was prestretched by the stringer too much. I switched to 18g and started to string myself following the prestretching advice on similar posts like this one. I played the 18g on Vantage frames, and now a dunlop frame. I love the bite and feel. I have tried the 18g in a hybrid but prefer a full 18g string bed. I have yet to try the MoJo hybrid but will do so in the future. I love the ball feel on the string bed, it feels like I'm actually catching and throwing the ball with any amount of topspin,slice I want to apply to the ball.
As far as the 18g specs of 1.20mm, whether it is a true 18g or a 17L it doesn't matter to me. If it was marketed as a 17Lg I would still be using it. MC has argued this point ever since I have been a member of this board which has been over 8 years.

You and I share similar experience.

I like the Legend 18 g much more than the 17g. But I do understand that some others prefer the thicker gauge.

If anyone has a package of 18 g and want to trade it with my 17 g, shoot me an email at asyluke@yahoo.com.

haerdalis
10-14-2007, 05:10 PM
How much does the 18g stretches compared to the 16g when stringing? When splitting the 16g set in two it is just long enough to string on the Kneissl black star, would the 18g be too short to split in two then perhaps?

bagung
10-14-2007, 05:23 PM
i don't know about how much the 18g stretches nor long enough on the kneissl..
however , i split the 18g on 2 of my dnx-10 mid as main, the left over is about the same as the 16g..
so, i suppose it has the same length as the 16g............?

AndrewD
10-14-2007, 06:21 PM
Everything you said is your experience of course mine and others of the boards are not the same.

Mine and that of 10 others with more than one set of string, although it should be noted that I haven't attempted to pass our experience off as gospel and merely reported our opinions. Big difference from saying, after only having one experience of a string, that it isn't any good.

As for the Klip 18g, like I said they are lying to you about it being 18g when in fact is is not like the rest of the manufactures are doing, anything that is 1.20mm is considered 17L but never a true 18g.

No, Klip isn't 'lying' to me and I wonder why on earth you would use a term like that. The consistently rank their strings of 1.20mm as 18g so, if you buy a Klip 18g you can be pretty sure it's going to be 1.20 mm. Other 18g strings at 1.20 mm or made by Wilson, Babolat,Tecnifibre , Luxilon, Gosen and Gamma. If any of them deliberately listed incorrect dimensions THAT would be lying - but they aren't doing that, are they. That isn't the 'rest of' the other manufacturers but more than enough to illustrate that, 'in fact' it isn't just Klip which differs and makes one wonder why you single them out.


The fact still remains thicker strings last longer and have lower performance (less feel, less power, less spin) than a thinner string, all else being equal.

Sure, in theory: but we're talking about natural gut and all things are not equal. If they were then you'd be saying that Pacific natural gut at 17g or 16g has far lower performance levels (feel, power and spin) than Klip Legend 18g as the Legend is thinner (all other things can never be equal, the most you can do is say they're all natural gut). Yet you claim Pacific makes better gut and Legend 18g is a poor string. It would also mean that 17g Babolat VS had less feel, power and spin than 18g Legend, 17g BDE or 17g Bow.

NoBadMojo
10-14-2007, 06:33 PM
How much does the 18g stretches compared to the 16g when stringing? When splitting the 16g set in two it is just long enough to string on the Kneissl black star, would the 18g be too short to split in two then perhaps?

I dont hesitate splitting a string in two amongst the strings I use in the frames I string. I've had to <on occassion> make an extension piece using a scrap piece of string and extra clamp when stringing two piece on an 18m's frame to pull the last main on each side. Keep in mind this is on a cheesy drop weight stringer with the tensioner being far away from the frame itself.

JW10S
10-14-2007, 06:40 PM
Off topic but I can remember when the company was called 'Klipspringer'--I prefer that much more than 'Klip'.

Pro_Tour_630
10-14-2007, 06:42 PM
Mine and that of 10 others with more than one set of string, although it should be noted that I haven't attempted to pass our experience off as gospel and merely reported our opinions. Big difference from saying, after only having one experience of a string, that it isn't any good. .

I have had one experience that I strung, and two that TW strung. Which make it three that is enough for me and after reading all the negatives here on TW especially rabbit confirmation. Come to think of it plus a 1/2 set which I used on the Mojo job, boy that was a waste as well. I could not figure out which one was worse the Klip Gut or the Iso.



No, Klip isn't 'lying' to me and I wonder why on earth you would use a term like that. The consistently rank their strings of 1.20mm as 18g so, if you buy a Klip 18g you can be pretty sure it's going to be 1.20 mm. Other 18g strings at 1.20 mm or made by Wilson, Babolat,Tecnifibre , Luxilon, Gosen and Gamma. If any of them deliberately listed incorrect dimensions THAT would be lying - but they aren't doing that, are they. That isn't the 'rest of' the other manufacturers but more than enough to illustrate that, 'in fact' it isn't just Klip which differs and makes one wonder why you single them out.

Not only Klip is lying to you, many of the manufacture are laying to you. I have not singled Kilp out read my posts and ask robkat, I have been saying the same thing for 8 years now. not only about Klip. As for consistency being 1.20mm that is a laugh. Gut is natural the gauge sometimes is inconsistent. There are gauge discrepancy and depends on what the Cow eats and how the intestine are digesting and how the walls of the intestine are forming




Sure, in theory: but we're talking about natural gut and all things are not equal. If they were then you'd be saying that Pacific natural gut at 17g or 16g has far lower performance levels (feel, power and spin) than Klip Legend 18g as the Legend is thinner (all other things can never be equal, the most you can do is say they're all natural gut). Yet you claim Pacific makes better gut and Legend 18g is a poor string. It would also mean that 17g Babolat VS had less feel, power and spin than 18g Legend, 17g BDE or 17g Bow.

that is correct,

Yes Klip 18g does have more feel and power and spin than their 17g counterparts of other brands, providing that the guage is uniformly consistent 1.20mm. Only problem it freys easily and goes dead very quick. It performs better only for a short period of time and then just goes dead, it just sits bland with no feedback during that period. In comes Pacific Prime 18g with tyrex coating? have you used that string? I doubt you have. When you do then you will know what I am talking about.


Anyway, I have a few sets of Klip legend Natural gut 17g that I will be giving away dirt cheap very soon to some one who will appreciate it more than I.

Rabbit
10-15-2007, 04:07 AM
MC - how did your experience go with the couple of sets of Catapult Power go?

Pro_Tour_630
10-15-2007, 07:52 AM
MC - how did your experience go with the couple of sets of Catapult Power go?

WOW! very nice, nicer than Klip legend 17g and 16g, thanks a bunch, I am down to my last set. Help! I will give you free set of Klip natural Gut 17g

Rabbit
10-15-2007, 09:11 AM
WOW! very nice, nicer than Klip legend 17g and 16g, thanks a bunch, I am down to my last set. Help! I will give you free set of Klip natural Gut 17g

lmao...we can probably work a trade, let me know

mileslong
10-15-2007, 09:43 AM
nobadmojo and chaho, i have always valued you guys opinions on rackets and strings and i have a question.

im new to polys and went to them when i started playing my new pure storm tours. i always played with tight string patterns with my dunlop MW200's and never had to worry about strings breaking that often, now with the new open string patterns im breaking the mains much more so than in the past. i miss the feel at the net of the gut so im looking at some good hybrids again instead of full poly. i dont have any arm or elbow problems not matter the string i just want feel and spin, not worried about power.

im going to try this gut/iso setup although i started moving away from multi as they seem to fray way too easy. this brings me to my question. does iso fray badly? when i tried the much praised x-1 biophase i found that it started fraying immediately and started feeling mushy and broke quickly even in the crosses so im out on that. does iso play like that like the x-1? and again, just because it didnt work well for me doesnt mean its not a great string just not for my game.

i really like the combo of VS gut mains and either BB Ace crosses or Pro Hurricane Tour crosses in my dunlops and fischers but that same setup doesnt last long at all in my new Pure Storm Tours so i need some alternatives.

thanks...

Pusher
10-15-2007, 10:13 AM
Glad you liked it, you at least know that it is not a true 18g and are not fooling yourself into believing it is 18g when in fact it is not. When you play with a true 18g pacific prime or VS if you can find them, let us know what you think.


I've used the Klip 18ga and never worried about whether it may not be someone else's idea of a true 18ga-why all the fuss about nothing?

I find Klip is the best value gut on the market. Pacific is OK but they have been spotty in their reliability as a supplier.

BMG
10-15-2007, 10:41 AM
...As far as the 18g specs of 1.20mm, whether it is a true 18g or a 17L it doesn't matter to me. If it was marketed as a 17Lg I would still be using it.

Yeah, I don't care what they call it either...so long as it plays well. I can always do the math when a manufacturer indicates the mm thickness.

Pro_Tour_630
10-15-2007, 10:43 AM
Miles, if you are going to use Mojo set up in the MW200G go for it and report to us. IMO you are not going to like it. It will not fry as much but it will feel too mushy in an already mushy frame. Then you will get accused of not stringing it properly if you string it low. And if you string it too tight it will feel boardy. Not to mention it will add Head weight to your already head light frame.

Iso pro plays no where near Biphase. Biphase is somewhat crisp with crisp coating which grips the ball creating spin,control and pocketing. If it frayed and felt mushy Iso will feel mushier.

I am not into Combo nor Poly so I can not help you there. I like Pacific Natural gut, tecnifibre Multis, and I tend to stay with string under 1.20mm with the only exception Volkl catapult Power. I would highly recommend that string in an open pattern along with Pacific PMX which is a 1.28mm similar string.

Pro_Tour_630
10-15-2007, 10:46 AM
Yeah, I don't care what they call it either...so long as it plays well. I can always do the math when a manufacturer indicates the mm thickness.

I am glad that you passed second grade math we all can do the math but do you have access to a digital caliper to find out the true gauge diameter of natural gut that has been peddled to you.

BMG
10-15-2007, 10:53 AM
I am glad that you passed second grade match we all can do the math but do you have access to a digital caliper to find out the true gauge diameter of natural gut that has been peddled to you.

Uhm, no (does that make me a bad person..:( ). But if I ever start with the measuring/weighing/obsessing about exact string width someone please smother me.

Pro_Tour_630
10-15-2007, 11:02 AM
I've used the Klip 18ga and never worried about whether it may not be someone else's idea of a true 18ga-why all the fuss about nothing?

I find Klip is the best value gut on the market. Pacific is OK but they have been spotty in their reliability as a supplier.

Ever heard of you get what you pay for where value is not always the best way to go. If you want to call Klip gut a value string then go ahead fine with me.

It is not only Klip 18g, most of them do the same. Heck wilson/gamma has 1.22mm strings and call them 18g and rave about how durable they are, no wonder! they are 1.22mm, they are supposed to be durable for a so called 18g string. When in fact they are not a thin string compared to a real 18g string that are 1.15mm, now that is what I call thin. There are strings that are even 18L and 19g which are even thinner.

Go to USRSA and find out the diameter range of true 18g strings, it sure hell not 1.22mm?!?!?!

But I see your point, hey you like it, you like it, it could be chicken wire or 1.50mm weed wacker,

Pro_Tour_630
10-15-2007, 11:20 AM
Uhm, no (does that make me a bad person..:( ). But if I ever start with the measuring/weighing/obsessing about exact string width someone please smother me.

You have not even tried the string so how do you know it is going to play well, because Mojo said so,

I am really looking to give this one a try. Legend might be just what the doc ordered:D

You guys don't seem to understand. This is false advertising. Like a credit card (no transfer fees in big letters but the small fine print says fees) If I buy a string that says 18g and I get a string that is 1.22mm few would know but many people do not read the fine print diameter # and only go by the 18g print thinking they are getting a very thin string. For me it could be the best string money can buy but what is the point if I can not play well with it if the string is thick. For me I found that 1.20mm is the break point, there is however one maybe two exceptions which depends on the string pattern of a particular stick. But on my PT 630 I have tried every string out there and I narrowed it down to under 1.20mm and no Poly at any gauge. I would not even play well with Pacific Prime 17g nor Babolat VS 17g on my PT, why? because they are 1.25mm. I tried Klip 18g 1.20mm it was ok but frayed and felt dead very quick so I went with two biphase 18g for the price of one Klip 18g. If I want to spend mucho $$$$ with exceptional performance with little durability in a tournament I bust out Pacific Prime 18g.

BMG
10-15-2007, 11:31 AM
You have not even tried the string so how do you know it is going to play well, because Mojo said so,...

What is that supposed to mean??? Why the insult, bud? I hit with Legend 18 for about 5 hours over the weekend and will continue to test it during the next couple of weeks.

Pro_Tour_630
10-15-2007, 11:34 AM
What is that supposed to mean??? Why the insult, bud? I hit with Legend 18 for about 5 hours over the weekend and will continue to test it during the next couple of weeks.

Sorry then my bad, you just have 5 hours on it, not bad, few more hours and let us know. On what frame and what tension and who strung it on what machine? Level of play, type of condition etc...

I just reread some of your posts

A better test of this string might be on a racquet that I am much more familiar with

You have it on the BB11 at 57, this is not your usual stick, when you do let us know.

NoBadMojo
10-15-2007, 11:40 AM
nobadmojo and chaho, i have always valued you guys opinions on rackets and strings and i have a question.

im new to polys and went to them when i started playing my new pure storm tours. i always played with tight string patterns with my dunlop MW200's and never had to worry about strings breaking that often, now with the new open string patterns im breaking the mains much more so than in the past. i miss the feel at the net of the gut so im looking at some good hybrids again instead of full poly. i dont have any arm or elbow problems not matter the string i just want feel and spin, not worried about power.

im going to try this gut/iso setup although i started moving away from multi as they seem to fray way too easy. this brings me to my question. does iso fray badly? when i tried the much praised x-1 biophase i found that it started fraying immediately and started feeling mushy and broke quickly even in the crosses so im out on that. does iso play like that like the x-1? and again, just because it didnt work well for me doesnt mean its not a great string just not for my game.

i really like the combo of VS gut mains and either BB Ace crosses or Pro Hurricane Tour crosses in my dunlops and fischers but that same setup doesnt last long at all in my new Pure Storm Tours so i need some alternatives.

thanks...

Careful to who you listen to around here..Iso frays like crazy. I put a stringsaver whenever/as soon as I see a fray point. It frays like crazy and everyone I know of breaks the crosses before the mains w. Legend mains. The good news is that I am getting better durability than with straight gut or gut/excellerator with the legend/Iso combo.
Examples:
Straight Excellerator - 8-10hrs and mains break first (almost always )
Straight Legend - 15-20 hours and mains break
Legend/Excellerator - 15-20 hours and mains break
Legend/Iso - 25 hours or so and x's break first every time

The beauty of the legend/Iso setup is that it plays well until the strings break unlike coupling expensive gut with a regular poly as the poly quickly becomes unplayable while gut plays well until it breaks. You also get the benefit of some of the poly type spin as the bottom falls out of your shot if strung properly and with the right spin before going long. You also get a nice comfortable ball feel as compared to a poly type of ball feel. You also wont fiund yourself adjusting strings much at all if you dont string low

Compared to your normal VS gut, legend is more durable so you will pick up durability there. The iso isnt going to be durable at all like a regular poly but it wont become unplayable until it breaks. The iso tames the power of the gut a bit. of course you can always string tighter for more control or maybe try the iso control instead of iso pro for less work on the ball and more longevity <altho I havent tried it>

Hope this helps. let me know if you need help choosing tension and prstretching with this hybrid

Pro_Tour_630
10-15-2007, 11:46 AM
there you go miles, Iso frays badly stay away from it. I dont know about you but the second I see a string fray the performance drops. Call me superstitious

6LOVE
10-15-2007, 01:30 PM
Mojo hybrid update: Using the same stick for a couple weeks and the Mojo hybrid is only getting better. Love it for both singles and doubles.

Question for NoBadMojo: A friend has asked me to string his racket with ISO Speed Energetic Plus. Should I string 10 percent higher with this string like with the Pro?

NoBadMojo
10-15-2007, 02:37 PM
Mojo hybrid update: Using the same stick for a couple weeks and the Mojo hybrid is only getting better. Love it for both singles and doubles.

Question for NoBadMojo: A friend has asked me to string his racket with ISO Speed Energetic Plus. Should I string 10 percent higher with this string like with the Pro?

i've no experience with the Energetic +. I am looking at a package of it now and it has no stringing info. It's marked at a level9 for control and 10 for durability. Maybe the iso website can help you or ask TW.

i am curious how this might play, so please post after getting somne playing time. ditto if anyone has tried legend m's w. IsoControl x's

Pro_Tour_630
10-16-2007, 10:03 AM
here is the 17L link 1.20mm sounds familiar

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/catthumbs.html?CREF=65

or the 18g where some should not be listed in this group for obvious reasons

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/catthumbs.html?CREF=66

lucu
10-26-2007, 07:38 AM
the klip legend 18g is crisp and "spinny".

BMG
10-27-2007, 08:00 AM
Allright its been about two weeks (and probably about 14 hours) that I have been using my trusty Prestige MP strung with a hybrid of Legend 18 mains and Gosen OG Micro 18 crossess at 59 lbs. and I am really lovin' it. I have more power than with my old full NRG or Bi-Phase multi setup but have great control. The strings provide good bite and I have better spin on demand. Fantastic setup at a good cost.

Pro_Tour_630
10-27-2007, 08:11 AM
BMG since you use gosen 18g in cross which is 1.15mm I would suggest using http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpageACBOW-BBCH18.html in main which is the same gauge as gosen 18g if not thinner more like 1.10mm

I used this set up and liked it more than Klip 18g. but ever since Bow raised the price to $29 it was not economical for me, it used to be $19.99 at one point then $24.99, then $29.99

BMG
10-27-2007, 10:30 AM
BMG since you use gosen 18g in cross which is 1.15mm I would suggest using http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpageACBOW-BBCH18.html in main which is the same gauge as gosen 18g if not thinner more like 1.10mm

I used this set up and liked it more than Klip 18g. but ever since Bow raised the price to $29 it was not economical for me, it used to be $19.99 at one point then $24.99, then $29.99

Thanks Michael...I'll check it out.

bagung
11-12-2007, 06:15 PM
restrung the legend 18g/iso pro at 52/57 on dnx-10mid and T10gen2, it feel better than previous 56/60.
less stiff on the string-bed,good bite, more power..