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drakulie
10-10-2007, 12:53 PM
We haven't done this in a while. The posters here at TW could be pretty rough, so what better place to get an accurate assessment. Please post your thoughts on this guys strokes and what NTRP level you think he deserves. (keep it clean) :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDc3oblQ89Y

EDIT: At the request of Jack the Hack, here are some volleys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EWOa6zaXh4

overheads:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVZfQ13Qu1g

Sup2Dresq
10-10-2007, 01:03 PM
Not only does he look older in years.. his game is so old school. He would kick most peoples butts if the match was played with wooden racquets. For today's modern racquets and game i would say 3.5 in FL, a 4.0 in the Mid Atlantic area.

Okay, I don't trust you. Is this guy someone famous?

HotCarl
10-10-2007, 01:09 PM
3.5

Possibly 4.0 if you have a solid mental game and knowledge of court geometry [from a point building standpoint].

qwerty66
10-10-2007, 01:11 PM
4.0-4.5?
cuz it doesn't look like he is trying very hard
and seems to hit the ball pretty solid

ThePro101
10-10-2007, 01:15 PM
Very solid -- Former pro? - possible multiple GS winner??

Jack the Hack
10-10-2007, 01:20 PM
drak... it's been awhile, but I think you and I have the same NTRP level (4.5) and background (small college tennis, limited Open success). Anyway, I just love these type of threads. As we've discussed before, you could put a video of a top 50 pro practicing in a park or back court on this forum, and people would say they're a 3.5 or less!

As for the video you posted, it's virtually impossible to tell the player's level because he is just standing in one place hitting what looks like warm up balls. You never get to see the player run for a ball, hit a volley, or an overhead, or a serve... much less play any points. Besides, competition is what determines a player's true level, not the mechanics of their strokes. To make a real determination of NTRP level, I would rather see a list of this player's tournament results than a short video like this.

Given all that, I think you posted this for fun... so I'll bite:

There is an old geezer at our club that hits just like this guy. He used to be a 5.0 several years ago, but after not playing USTA League for about 5 years, he self rated at 4.0 for a team this year... and was DQ'd up to 4.5 after 4 or 5 matches. Not knowing anything else about the player in the video and with the caveats above, I'd say he might be a 4.5 also.

HotCarl
10-10-2007, 01:27 PM
Jack makes a good point, that it's hard to tell just from strokes. Now that I think about it, a couple guys I played in a 5.0 league last year had strokes that looked like crap, and played junky tennis, but they knew how to win points. They were on the bottom of the ladder because poor technique and junk only gets you so far, but they were still good players.

Purostaff
10-10-2007, 01:35 PM
He doesn't have a top-spin backhand? But everything else looks solid. If he has a good serve, I'd rate him 4.0

power_play21
10-10-2007, 01:53 PM
ok, whatever this guy is, one thing i can guarantee you, hes not getting to every ball after a certain level lol. might fracture a hip or something...

drakulie
10-10-2007, 01:56 PM
Interesting comments so far. keep them coming. I went ahead and edited my initial post to include some volleys.

krz
10-10-2007, 01:58 PM
Is it me or did he not miss for 1:10 seconds?

drakulie
10-10-2007, 01:58 PM
Not only does he look older in years..

That what I like about you>>> Your attention to detail. :)

Is it me or did he not miss for 1:10 seconds?

Correct. He did not miss one shot.

sharpy
10-10-2007, 02:04 PM
We haven't done this in a while. The posters here at TW could be pretty rough, so what better place to get an accurate assessment. Please post your thoughts on this guys strokes and what NTRP level you think he deserves. (keep it clean) :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDc3oblQ89Y

EDIT: At the request of Jack the Hack, here are some volleys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EWOa6zaXh4

I love these stupid threads. Post a video of someone with crappy looking form from a crappy angle and then ask for the ntrp.

Once all the suckers say, "definately 3.5.. 4.0 max if he's consistent!"

You then post, "haha... see how stupid these forum raters are? This guy is a pro! haha!!!"

ohplease
10-10-2007, 02:06 PM
This thread exists as a trap. That old guy can play.

I wouldn't be the least surprised to hear he's nationally ranked in his age group, or that he regularly plays open tournaments.

On the other hand, we don't see him move, so he might be slumming at 4.0.

Could really go either way, but I'm betting that someone who hits shots of that quality, that consistently, is pretty darn good.

HotCarl
10-10-2007, 02:09 PM
I don't know if I would call those shots "quality", aside from the fact they all went in the court. To me, his strokes don't look pretty, but they seem fluid at least. Makes me think he's better than he appears.

VaBeachTennis
10-10-2007, 02:14 PM
The guy looks like an old Australian grass court player. Somewhat of a continental grip and swing, slice backhand, and pretty solid volleys. NTRP >4.5

HotCarl
10-10-2007, 02:14 PM
Yeah, I've watched it 3-4 times now. He's better than I first rated him. From what I noticed after repeated viewings, he has good balance and hits with stokes that developed from playing with a wood racket. I bet he knows his way around the court.

I'd give him a 4.5. He couldn't beat a 5.0 though, at least not here in CA.

Jack the Hack
10-10-2007, 02:28 PM
drakulie... any video of this guy actually playing some points?

Even with the additional video showing the volley and overhead, this guy is still just warming up and doesn't have to move his feet much. I've seen plenty of players that look like Sampras in the warm-up, but can't keep a ball in once the match starts... and I've also seen plenty of veterans that sleepwalk through the warm-up, but pick you apart when it counts.

drakulie
10-10-2007, 02:33 PM
^^^ No points. I took this video from my balcony this morning when I woke up. I live in a tennis community with 23 courts. This guy, whom I've hit with a few times lives there and was just practicing drills. He is an ex NCAA champion. By the way, he is 70+ years old, and could move quite well.

snoopy
10-10-2007, 03:02 PM
This one is tricky b/c of age.

Clearly he has very consistent, grooved strokes. He looks like he gets good extension and he probably drives the ball well. So he's probably capable of regularly hitting deep into the court, one of the key signs of a good player.

Volleys, overheads, and ground strokes all look smooth - he's in total control of his movement (a feeling I rarely experience, lol)

However b/c of his age his footwork is poor and he probably can't get to many shots.

If he sticks to an older age group this guy would kick butt. Yet if he plays younger guys he's in trouble, might get beat by youngins with worse technique.

So I'll say 4.5.

Supernatural_Serve
10-10-2007, 03:11 PM
This thread is a perfect example of the meaninglessness of such questions such as "what level is this...person, or stroke, or game" from a video or even watching them hit in person.

NTRP levels are only meaningful in terms of match play results, preferably USTA league and tournament matches.

WildVolley
10-10-2007, 03:59 PM
The first video looks like he's casually hitting warm-up shots. He's very consistent. You can tell he's a player by watching the overheads. He doesn't go for too much and his timing seems to be correct. Nice accurate overheads, not something you see even from most 4.0s.

Still, how do you rate old guys?

shintan17
10-10-2007, 05:44 PM
He hits everyball solid. I know he is aging and his movement is probably limited, but I definitely feel like this guy can still play at 4.5, probably not at 5.0 because the guys nowadays are just so much stronger and place balls better (because of strings, racquet technologies, and better athleticism) than when he was playing in college. Very nice stroke, though!!

soyizgood
10-10-2007, 05:59 PM
Probably 3.5. He has power, obviously. But his backhand and backhand slice leave much to be desired. He doesn't get any real topspin on his forehand either and he let some balls get really low before making contact. Doesn't really extend his stroke so that may result in some balls sailing. Still he looks like he's played a while and has some idea of what he's doing.

shintan17
10-10-2007, 06:18 PM
Probably 3.5. He has power, obviously. But his backhand and backhand slice leave much to be desired. He doesn't get any real topspin on his forehand either and he let some balls get really low before making contact. Doesn't really extend his stroke so that may result in some balls sailing. Still he looks like he's played a while and has some idea of what he's doing.

The guy is a former NCAA champion...I don't think he is at 3.5 even with his age.

drakulie
10-10-2007, 07:18 PM
Still, how do you rate old guys?

Too funny! :)

Interesting thougths posted so far. One that is very interesting is the mentioning of this guys backhand "slice". Fact is, he didn't put slice on any of those shots. They are all flat, or have some topspin (very little). The other thing worth mentioning is all his shots landed in, and behind the service line.

Keep the thoughts coming.

Clintspin
10-10-2007, 07:23 PM
He looks very solid and I know enough not to judge a guy by his age. I play with some 60+ guys that are 4.5 players and this guy looks like he could be much better. I bet he can move well for his age and get everything back in play with his consistent game. Are we talking NTRP for senior play or any league?

jmverdugo
10-10-2007, 07:43 PM
I wouldnt know about his NTRP but i would love to play doubles with him as my partner. It would be really fun and he would make us win :).

Noveson
10-10-2007, 07:53 PM
I would say 4.0, I'm probably going to be way off. Doesn't seem to to be able to hit very well off the backhand side, looks like a very flat ball. Consistency would make up for the power, but if that's how he moves he could have some problems. Maybe 3.5.

slice bh compliment
10-10-2007, 08:07 PM
Background: I do not know what I am, I don't play tournaments, I just drill and practice a lot..and play sets of singles and dubs with old buds. I'm thinking I'd do well in 5.5s now, probably fine in 35 and overs.

ANyway, during my last two years traveling/playing opens and satellites (early 90s), I used to barely beat a guy who played about twenty slams in the Hoad, Rosewall, Laver, pre-open era. The guy was 50+, and his strokes were a little choppy (as was his footwork), but his returns and passes were absolutely lethal. And, what a volleyer! I hope I'm that level when I'm 40, let alone 50!

A female college player I dated at the time came and watched the end of one of our practices....she thought it was ridiculous I'd often drop a set to a guy his age. After a post-match beer and a few stories about the circuit I think she developed a kind of crush on the guy....and wanted to set her aunt up with him.

He was single...and he and Aunt Carla went out a few times!
Hilarity ensued....and the relationship lasted a few sleepovers....which is why I will not be typing his actual name in here.

Moral of the story: many old dudes are actually pretty stylin', even if they eat dinner at like 4:30.

Good one Drak.

BTW, Allen Fox is still a baller.

shintan17
10-10-2007, 08:11 PM
So, he is a former NCAA champion, right? It all depends on how he moves on the court. Very hard to tell from just casual warmups, and some overheads. His volleys are soild, but nowadays, players can take advantage of short balls so much better than probably 50+ years ago when he was a champ!! Let me guess again...hmmm good 4.0-low 4.5, I would be surprised if he is 5.0.

slice bh compliment
10-10-2007, 08:18 PM
[quote=shintan17;1802911]...... 4.5..quote]

Probably a 4.5, but again, it is hard to tell.
No higher than 4.5, I agree.

Also hard to tell, but he does not look 70, even though he's stiff. Pretty fit guy. More like 60?

tbini87
10-10-2007, 08:22 PM
i would guess 4.0-4.5. he did not move at all on any of those shots, which might make him look slow or old, and he might be able to move well but i could not possibly know that. obviously very solid with probably plenty of years of tennis under his belt.

XhotXEX1290
10-10-2007, 09:12 PM
ntrp.4.0-4.5 i dk if he can win against some younger 4.5s.

couch
10-10-2007, 09:20 PM
Okay Drakulie I haven't read through all the posts but I'm going to guess this guy is a 4.5. He may not be a 4.5 singles player but I bet he plays a mean doubles game. :) He reminds me a lot of a guy that plays at our club who was on the Kentucky 4.5 Senior team that won Nationals. This guy was a pretty good 4.5 but because of his results at Senior Sectionals and Nationals he got bumped to 5.0.

The guy I'm talking about is still a good 4.5 doubles player but wouldn't compete at 5.0 and would have a hard time competing at 4.5 singles. He would do fairly well though at 4.5 doubles. There are just some things you lose as you get older, namely speed around the court and power. If these guys don't have to move they probably are 5.0 players but tennis is a game of movement. ;)

couch
10-10-2007, 09:22 PM
ntrp.4.0-4.5 i dk if he can win against some younger 4.5s.

The thing is he would probably beat the younger 4.5s and lose to the older 4.5s. Some things come with age. ;)

Thud and blunder
10-11-2007, 12:00 AM
I can't believe some people rate the guy 3.5. A benchmark 3.5 won't get a game off this guy.

WBF
10-11-2007, 03:34 AM
You can't tell because he isn't playing points.

But if I had to guess, I'd say he's a very, very solid player. While footwork is important, you simply can't hide beautiful strokes like that by looking lazy.

I'd say at one point he was nationally or world ranked, maybe still is.

Never take anything anyone who mentioned 3.x says seriously again.

johnny ballgame
10-11-2007, 07:31 AM
He may not be a 4.5 singles player but I bet he plays a mean doubles game. :)

Agree, probably a very good doubles player (or singles in his age bracket).

Clearly solid but difficult to judge because he didn't take more than two steps to get to ANY of those shots in the video.

WBF
10-11-2007, 07:46 AM
Background: I do not know what I am, I don't play tournaments, I just drill and practice a lot..and play sets of singles and dubs with old buds. I'm thinking I'd do well in 5.5s now, probably fine in 35 and overs.

ANyway, during my last two years traveling/playing opens and satellites (early 90s), I used to barely beat a guy who played about twenty slams in the Hoad, Rosewall, Laver, pre-open era. The guy was 50+, and his strokes were a little choppy (as was his footwork), but his returns and passes were absolutely lethal. And, what a volleyer! I hope I'm that level when I'm 40, let alone 50!

A female college player I dated at the time came and watched the end of one of our practices....she thought it was ridiculous I'd often drop a set to a guy his age. After a post-match beer and a few stories about the circuit I think she developed a kind of crush on the guy....and wanted to set her aunt up with him.

He was single...and he and Aunt Carla went out a few times!
Hilarity ensued....and the relationship lasted a few sleepovers....which is why I will not be typing his actual name in here.

Moral of the story: many old dudes are actually pretty stylin', even if they eat dinner at like 4:30.

Good one Drak.

BTW, Allen Fox is still a baller.


Exactly. Age is a factor but...

I know a guy in his late 40's who can hardly move at all due to bad knees (much, much more awkward than the guy in the video).

He destroys many open level players in singles.

He destroys many national/world class players in doubles.

Skill and experience often trump age.

Jack the Hack
10-11-2007, 08:08 AM
^^^ No points. I took this video from my balcony this morning when I woke up. I live in a tennis community with 23 courts. This guy, whom I've hit with a few times lives there and was just practicing drills. He is an ex NCAA champion. By the way, he is 70+ years old, and could move quite well.

I know two of the top 70+ players in my section and have hit with both of them. They are both rated 4.0, but were never NCAA champs. However, one of these guys still holds the state high school basketball record for most points scored in a game and the other is an ex-baseball coach - so both were very good athletes in their time.

When you play sets with either one of these players, you will quickly find out that they don't move very well. However, if you try to overpower them, it will not work. If they can get a racquet on the ball, they can play... and they often place the ball very well. The key to beating them is to move the ball from corner to corner to take advantage of the movement issues. I could see either one of these players beating inexperienced 4.0 opponents quite easily, but they get hammered by 4.5 players.

To get a better idea of what a national level 70+ player is rated, I looked at the top 20 from the national rankings last year. 10 out of the top 20 are rated 4.5, and the remainders are 4.0. The top 2 from Florida were 4.5, and the rest were 4.0. I'm not sure if the guy in the video is amongst this group, but I would say the assessment of 4.0 to 4.5 is probably correct.

Cindysphinx
10-11-2007, 09:16 AM
Haven't read the replies so far, 'cause it's more fun that way!

He's probably a 5.0 who isn't trying. That's what my pro looks like when he's just feeding the ball to me. Minimal movement, minimal energy.

If that is the best he can play -- if he plays with that low level of intensity and doesn't have another gear -- then I'd say 3.5.

kevhen
10-11-2007, 11:27 AM
His footwork is 3.5 but his consistency and pace is 4.5 level. He could play 4.5 doubles. He has good strokes. He might use better footwork in match but is just being efficiently lazy with his feet while practicing. He places his shots very well as they all go out to the center and his opponent hit them all back to the center which is 4.5 level placement.

Phil
10-11-2007, 11:35 AM
He's just having a light warm-up, and his strokes are good enough, and he has enough experience, that he probably doesn't HAVE to move all that much anymore to beat younger players.

I've played older guys who at first glance looked like they were standing still, but come game time, beat the snot out of me (and other younger "hot shots"). Without video of serious playing/drilling, I wouldn't have any idea of his NTRP.

WBF
10-11-2007, 12:12 PM
His footwork is 3.5 but his consistency and pace is 4.5 level. He could play 4.5 doubles. He has good strokes. He might use better footwork in match but is just being efficiently lazy with his feet while practicing. He places his shots very well as they all go out to the center and his opponent hit them all back to the center which is 4.5 level placement.

A 4.5 player can maintain every single shot in 1:10 right to the center, in, and behind the service line?

I guess I'm not a 4.5 yet. Oh well.

theroguedog
10-11-2007, 12:47 PM
Looks like a nationally ranked player, probably #1 or #2 in the 65's for the past few years.

VGP
10-11-2007, 01:13 PM
Thanks for posting, drakulie.....




....uh, guys.......





......that's.......





KEN ROSEWALL!

VGP
10-11-2007, 01:20 PM
Could tell immediately.....

Classic eastern forehand....never comes over the ball on the backhand.

Rosewall has a idiosynchratic push of his fist on the followthrough on the backhand side.

Plus physically, "Muscles" is 5'7" and is slightly bowlegged.

Apart from style and whatnot.....looks to me that he's not missing a shot.

Very no nonsense and no slop.

slice bh compliment
10-11-2007, 01:21 PM
Good answer!


But if that's Ken Rosewall, I'd like to meet the guy who shaved Rosewall's legendary eyebrows!

johnny ballgame
10-11-2007, 01:22 PM
......that's......KEN ROSEWALL!

Rosewall never played a NCAA match.

slice bh compliment
10-11-2007, 01:26 PM
Rosewall never played a NCAA match.

Yes, Kenny Rosewall, a 15 year-old sophomore Communications major at Brisbane State, playing number two doubles and coming in with a 3.8 GPA....good enough for Academic All-Australian honors. We hope he stays in school rather than traveling the world, playing those dastardly amateur Slams.

Nope. JK obviously.

Rosewall and Hoad were nicknamed "the whiz kids". Straight to the Slams and Davis Cup as teenagers.

Jack the Hack
10-11-2007, 01:39 PM
Could tell immediately.....

Classic eastern forehand....never comes over the ball on the backhand.

Rosewall has a idiosynchratic push of his fist on the followthrough on the backhand side.

Plus physically, "Muscles" is 5'7" and is slightly bowlegged.

Apart from style and whatnot.....looks to me that he's not missing a shot.

Very no nonsense and no slop.

I have to assume that drakulie is not lying when he says that this player is a former NCAA champ in his 70s in an earlier post. If so, that would mean this isn't Rosewall. However, I can see the comparisons in the form... especially with the backhand. On that stroke, he positions the racquet like a slice, but hits it more like a flat drive like Rosewall used to do. On that note, I found this footage of Rosewall on YouTube that I thought some might enjoy:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HzPuG5HWGmI

LuckyR
10-11-2007, 02:07 PM
If the guy was a NCAA champ then he was at the very highest echelon of tennis skill in his day. His ease of stroking the ball in the video is testament of that. However, to my eye he seems to have a bit of low back pain since his low forehands seem a bit clipped. My guess he would eat up a SW FH modern topspinner of today, but might have more trouble with a slicing 1HBH retriever type. Of course at age 70+ most folks would have a twinge or injury somewhere.

couch
10-11-2007, 02:26 PM
Drakulie, you shouldn't have told everyone this guy was an ex-NCAA Champ and then seen what the guesses would have been.

Now THAT would have been interesting. ;) Are you ever going to tell us what his rating is or just keep teasing us?

Jack the Hack
10-11-2007, 02:27 PM
My guess he would eat up a SW FH modern topspinner of today, but might have more trouble with a slicing 1HBH retriever type.

Lucky, that's an interesting comment... and this is a side-track from the original topic:

I'm 35 years old and learned to play in the mid-1980's. My favorite player back at that time was Mats Wilander and I tried to pattern my strokes like his. I use a semi-western forehand and a two handed backhand, and I hit lots of topspin. Anyway, I've found that when I play players from the generation (or two, or three) before me that have eastern or continental grips on their forehands, they have lots of trouble with the high bouncing topspin... but handle the slices or flat balls much easier because of their grips. That seems to be the opposite of what you are saying.

Regardless, the players that I think would give this guy in the video trouble are those that can control the ball and place it well enough on the court to take advantage of his lack of mobility. In other words, anybody that is a 4.5+ with good groundstrokes.

VGP
10-11-2007, 02:28 PM
I didn't read through the thread.....

Since Rosewall never played NCAA, I'd say the guy in the vid plays just like him.

Great old-school stuff.

LuckyR
10-11-2007, 02:33 PM
Lucky, that's an interesting comment... and this is a side-track from the original topic:

I'm 35 years old and learned to play in the mid-1980's. My favorite player back at that time was Mats Wilander and I tried to pattern my strokes like his. I use a semi-western forehand and a two handed backhand, and I hit lots of topspin. Anyway, I've found that when I play players from the generation (or two, or three) before me that have eastern or continental grips on their forehands, they have lots of trouble with the high bouncing topspin... but handle the slices or flat balls much easier because of their grips. That seems to be the opposite of what you are saying.


My comment on who might or might not give the guy trouble was based less on his stroke type, since as a virtual former Pro, he should be able to handle all strokes, skill-wise. Rather I was commenting that if he has trouble with low short balls because of low back pain, then slices might give him back pain. Whereas a few years ago (pre back pain) he would eat those shots up (as you predicted). Topspinning balls would tend to rise up to meet him and give his back a rest.

drakulie
10-11-2007, 03:38 PM
Wow! Unbelievable responses! They were all very interesting to read. I'm kind of shocked as a group we didn't have more people claiming 2.5, 3.0, 3.5 etc. I agree with couch that I shouldn't have mentioned he was an NCAA champ, as maybe this tainted what posters would have said. For the most part, as a whole, the assessments were accurate.

As was noted, this guy has very classic strokes. He hits with an eastern fh, and everything else is continental. A lot was made about his movement (or lack thereof). Keep in mind, this guy is doing drills and warming up. When you are this good, have an opponent who is equally good, and the focus is to warm up, there is no need to move much because your focus is to hit back and forth to each other, without missing, and just groove your strokes.

VGP mentioned Rosewall. I found this especially interesting, because the first time I saw this guy hit when I moved into this community, I thought the same thing. He definitely reminds me of Rosewall. (kudos to you VGP).

Also interesting to read was the amount of posts mentioning what this guy woudl be like in doubles. Let me say this>>> THIS GUY IS AN ANIMAL AT DOUBLES, and Yes, he easily competes with 5.0+ players in doubles.

Singles however is a different story, because although he moves quite well, he doesn't have the wheels of a younger 5.0 player, and he gets tired more quickly. His movement is much better north to south, than east to west. Not only does he close in on the net quickly, his amazing understanding of the geometry of the court, results in always being in a great position to hit the response.

But make no mistake, he can move well from the basline in singles, and probably much better than many younger 4.0's, and 4.5s'. Remember, although **younger** 4.0, 4.5's are faster, this does not necessarily translate to good foot work on a tennis court and closing in on the ball. This guy knows how to stay on his toes duiring a match, and moves very well.

The shots he has the most trouble with are hard shots with lots of topspin. And I'm talking about topspin from 4.5+ players who hit a tight-spun ball that actually affects the movement of the ball in the air. Although he could get them back, sooner than later he breaks down and gives up a short one. He simply can't keep up with the pace, and energy of the ball coming in on him so hard.

Lastly, he represents the USA on traveling teams for the USTA. They play in Australia, Turkey, Austria, Canada, etc. His rank in his age division is # 1.

He won the 1954 National ATA Championship, the 1957 National Hard Court Championship, the 1959 National Collegiate Championship, the 1986 National 45 Clay Court Championship, and the 2004 National Hard Court Championship.

Thanks for the responses, hope you enjoyed.

PS: I made a mistake in his age, he is 65+.

Noveson
10-11-2007, 04:00 PM
Uh....*slinks away to edit his former post claiming a ntrp of 4.0*

sharpy
10-11-2007, 04:03 PM
Wow! Unbelievable responses! They were all very interesting to read. I'm kind of shocked as a group we didn't have more people claiming 2.5, 3.0, 3.5 etc.




This is due to my early warning of your tricky methods ;)

still remember the time you posted max mirnyi and people said 3.5.

WildVolley
10-11-2007, 04:23 PM
I think the 3.5 posts are pretty funny myself. But then, it has become such a joke on these boards that I don't think you can take most (any?) of them seriously.

In my defense, I'm so used to seeing young guys scrambling around like hyper monkeys that it is hard to rate old guys. Still, I at least classed this guy 4.5 or higher. He's very smooth and that's usually a sign of a better player.

BounceHitBounceHit
10-11-2007, 04:26 PM
A 4.5 player can maintain every single shot in 1:10 right to the center, in, and behind the service line?

Yes. :) CC

sharpy
10-11-2007, 05:01 PM
Yes. :) CC

^^ more like 5.0

Ace
10-11-2007, 05:08 PM
I want to see the Drakulie vs. Old Guy match video.

Do you play him?

Tennis_Monk
10-11-2007, 06:10 PM
This is due to my early warning of your tricky methods ;)

still remember the time you posted max mirnyi and people said 3.5.

voww. when was this? I gotta read that post where people rated MaxMirnyi , the beast of belarus as 3.5.

I knew i shud have gone pro. A 4.25 player, i could have eaten a 3.5 MaxMirnyi!!! (J/k)

jasoncho92
10-11-2007, 06:20 PM
^^ more like 5.0
I know a guy over 60 that is a 4.5 that has extreme consistency while hitting with pace and can move pretty fast. I dont really think we can tell this guys ntrp without actually seeing how fast he is on the court because no matter how well he hits, he cant hit the ball if he cant reach it

javier sergio
10-11-2007, 06:22 PM
:confused: We haven't done this in a while. The posters here at TW could be pretty rough, so what better place to get an accurate assessment. Please post your thoughts on this guys strokes and what NTRP level you think he deserves. (keep it clean) :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDc3oblQ89Y

EDIT: At the request of Jack the Hack, here are some volleys:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2EWOa6zaXh4

overheads:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVZfQ13Qu1g

4.5

sharpy
10-11-2007, 06:53 PM
voww. when was this? I gotta read that post where people rated MaxMirnyi , the beast of belarus as 3.5.

I knew i shud have gone pro. A 4.25 player, i could have eaten a 3.5 MaxMirnyi!!! (J/k)

haha, yeah. Seems like everyone here maxed out at 4.25 or 4.5. Except mirnyi of course.

Tennis_Monk
10-11-2007, 07:39 PM
haha, yeah. Seems like everyone here maxed out at 4.25 or 4.5. Except mirnyi of course.

No Kidding. When they TW forum has rigid standards, they mean it. This goes back to one of my posts recently regarding Tennis Standards.

At the top of Tennis hierarchy we have TW forum

Twforum
- ATP tour
--Challengers
---WTA tour
---- other circuits

For a comparison, a strong 3.5 from TW forum would give Federer so much trouble that he may need 5 sets and some line calls in his favor to win.
I believe this vast standard difference is the reason why ATP players are scared to play us.

shintan17
10-11-2007, 09:02 PM
No Kidding. When they TW forum has rigid standards, they mean it. This goes back to one of my posts recently regarding Tennis Standards.

At the top of Tennis hierarchy we have TW forum

Twforum
- ATP tour
--Challengers
---WTA tour
---- other circuits

For a comparison, a strong 3.5 from TW forum would give Federer so much trouble that he may need 5 sets and some line calls in his favor to win.
I believe this vast standard difference is the reason why ATP players are scared to play us.

I think the problem is lots of people using digital cameras or not so high-end camcorders that frame rates are so low that even 5.0 players look like 3.5-4.0 in the videos. I taped myself and I was amazed how slow it looked. I am pretty sure if I used my cheap camera and tape Federer or Nadal, their rallys would end up looking like 4.5-5.0.

Jack the Hack
10-12-2007, 08:26 AM
He won the 1954 National ATA Championship, the 1957 National Hard Court Championship, the 1959 National Collegiate Championship, the 1986 National 45 Clay Court Championship, and the 2004 National Hard Court Championship.

Thanks for the responses, hope you enjoyed.

PS: I made a mistake in his age, he is 65+.

5 years can make a big difference! Three of the top ten nationally ranked players in the 70+ division are rated 4.0, while everybody in the top ten of the 65+ are 4.5 (including our mystery man... I looked him up!).

smoothtennis
10-12-2007, 10:04 AM
I saw an old man 65+ at an open event last year in our area, and I was almost laughing watching the warm up. First of all, he looked like he might die out there you know? He just looked so frail, and weak. Strokes were old style, not much spin, etc.

When the match started against a 20 something topspin, pace freak, I was so shocked. The old man could get his racket into the most perfect spot at contact, and the balls would come off his racket with serious pace and his placement was so good it was a joke.

He lost the match because of momvement, but he must have hit 30+ clean winners coming into net. I remember thinking that you could never correlate what you saw with the action coming off his shots. I was so inspired to keep on working forever to improve timing, contact zone, and accuracy.

The best part, every winner he hit, everyone would like gasp and all smiling and stuff, and he would look over, smile real big, and shrug, LOL!!!

ohplease
10-12-2007, 10:12 AM
I saw an old man 65+ at an open event last year in our area, and I was almost laughing watching the warm up. First of all, he looked like he might die out there you know? He just looked so frail, and weak. Strokes were old style, not much spin, etc.

When the match started against a 20 something topspin, pace freak, I was so shocked. The old man could get his racket into the most perfect spot at contact, and the balls would come off his racket with serious pace and his placement was so good it was a joke.

He lost the match because of momvement, but he must have hit 30+ clean winners coming into net. I remember thinking that you could never correlate what you saw with the action coming off his shots. I was so inspired to keep on working forever to improve timing, contact zone, and accuracy.

The best part, every winner he hit, everyone would like gasp and all smiling and stuff, and he would look over, smile real big, and shrug, LOL!!!

This reminds me of an old story about how Agassi, in his earlier punk years, had taken exception to a story Bud Collins had written (or comments he had made on the air - I forget).

Anyway, the story was Bud had just had some major leg surgery, and was hobbling around on crutches. Agassi saw him making his way around the grounds of I think Wimbledon and "invited" Bud to hit with him. Allegedly, Bud goes out there, and just blocks back balls, which Agassi was just bombing, trying to go through the old man.

Of course, as the story goes, Agassi ultimately made an error.

These old guys really have nothing to lose. They're not "supposed" to beat younger players, and that lack of expectations, plus the acres of experience, plus young guns melting down, must get them a ton of wins.

ZPTennis
10-12-2007, 11:13 AM
I have played the TOP 60+ year olds in the country. None of them are 5.0.

However there are some good 4.5's that are over 60.

I have no idea how to rate this guy when i cant see where his shots are going and I haven't seen him show his movement capabilities. Judging by strokes alone, hes anywhere from 4.0 - 4.5.

LuckyR
10-12-2007, 11:21 AM
5 years can make a big difference! Three of the top ten nationally ranked players in the 70+ division are rated 4.0, while everybody in the top ten of the 65+ are 4.5 (including our mystery man... I looked him up!).

Good investigative work!

BeHappy
10-12-2007, 11:32 AM
This reminds me of an old story about how Agassi, in his earlier punk years, had taken exception to a story Bud Collins had written (or comments he had made on the air - I forget).

Anyway, the story was Bud had just had some major leg surgery, and was hobbling around on crutches. Agassi saw him making his way around the grounds of I think Wimbledon and "invited" Bud to hit with him. Allegedly, Bud goes out there, and just blocks back balls, which Agassi was just bombing, trying to go through the old man.

Of course, as the story goes, Agassi ultimately made an error.

These old guys really have nothing to lose. They're not "supposed" to beat younger players, and that lack of expectations, plus the acres of experience, plus young guns melting down, must get them a ton of wins.



there is absolutely NO WAY that story is true.

I'm sry, but there really and truly isn't, it's just impossible.

WBF
10-12-2007, 11:47 AM
there is absolutely NO WAY that story is true.

I'm sry, but there really and truly isn't, it's just impossible.

I recall seeing Bud play a few times at Longwood, and I agree with this sentiment :) Could just be poor memory though...

ohplease
10-12-2007, 12:29 PM
there is absolutely NO WAY that story is true.

I'm sry, but there really and truly isn't, it's just impossible.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showpost.php?p=1566795&postcount=119

I'm not the only one who remembers hearing that story.

LES
10-12-2007, 02:33 PM
You can't only judge people by their physical fitness. Where I play theres a regular guy there who's at least 350 lbs overweight and can barely move. But when he was playing a match, the other dude (an easy 4.0 - 4.5) couldn't hit any winners past him. If he used drop shots it would have been a different story but that would be cruel.

drakulie
10-12-2007, 02:54 PM
5 years can make a big difference! Three of the top ten nationally ranked players in the 70+ division are rated 4.0, while everybody in the top ten of the 65+ are 4.5 (including our mystery man... I looked him up!).

Great job Jack!

yeah, this guy is very solid. I've seen him play doubles matches at the club with 5.0+ players and he hangs very well with them. However, singles is a different story. Although he easily rallies with 5.0's, when points begin he gets worn down, but he still is able to compete.

The few times I hit with him were excellent hitting sessions.

drakulie
10-12-2007, 02:58 PM
I want to see the Drakulie vs. Old Guy match video.

Do you play him?

LOL. I have never played a match against him, but have hit with him a few times. He is extremely solid. Hits everything deep, with good pace and doesn't miss. from the net, he is unbelievable. His serve is also very good.

VaBeachTennis
10-12-2007, 03:51 PM
LOL. I have never played a match against him, but have hit with him a few times. He is extremely solid. Hits everything deep, with good pace and doesn't miss. from the net, he is unbelievable. His serve is also very good.

If it's the guy I think it is, he's a teaching pro and his name begins with an "R". I like his style, it's old and classic. I just hope I am in the same or better shape when I reach his age. There's still life after 60 if you take care of yourself. I was very impressed when I was riding my "road bike" at 23mph and a freshly retired Navy SEAL commander was cruising along with me on his "mountain bike" for a few miles while we talked and he was 60 or 62. Yeah he was pushing himself a little , but he was doing it.

drakulie
10-12-2007, 03:55 PM
^^Yup, that's him.