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NoBadMojo
10-18-2007, 04:45 PM
I've been challenged to compose a guide to stringing/strings with an economy of words

Of course I'd love it if a guideline could be expressed as cogently as you did with frames. Go for it!

- KK

Here it is.
Choose Prince Original Synthetic Gut <or equivalent> in 16gauge in the colour of your choosing if you like a softer feel. if you like a firmer feel choose Prince Synthetic Gut Duraflex <or equivalent> in 16gauge in the colour of your choosing.
String at mid tension + 2 pounds. If using a dense stringbed racquet string at midrange -2 pounds. If using an oversize string at midrange + 4 pounds.
You should try the string in your normal racquet so as to reduce the number of variables. It will likely take you a second stringjob to pin down the appropriate tension.
Prince Synthetic gut is the most popular string to this day and has been used by several pros in the past
THE END

Comments: This is partly jestful, but until someone reaches the 4.0-4.5 level they've got bigger technique fish to fry than tweaking strings. The performance differences (other than poly) is going to be pretty subtle, so why get confused with the myriad of string choices, guages, tensions, hybridding, prestretching, wax on...wax off Mr Miagi. ;O
I would like to follow up with a random musings post about stringing and maybe it will click with someone

shojun25
10-18-2007, 05:33 PM
I like the way you mentioned the tension for the different situations.

It doesn't even mention the actual stringing process though. Oh well...

jcstennis
10-18-2007, 05:38 PM
wait a sec... i should be waxing my strings!?

JK!

Nice composition... very , frugal!

Fries-N-Gravy
10-18-2007, 05:50 PM
you are right, people are getting a little crazy with the customization. i dont think anyone under 5.0 should really worry too much about tweaking their setup. maybe just choosing racquets for now.

i didnt want to start a thread so i'm gonna put my random stuff in here. as a PS.

i just started using duraflex a few weeks ago since thats what we get for free at school. very bright green and looks stupid. i like the crisp feel of it, 60lbs on my 85. however, it only lasts like 2 hours! even at $15 per stringing, this is way too expensive. i doubt it'll last 90 min on the k90 i just bought.

and so i've decided to get a stringer, maybe the gamma x-2. about to test some polys to see which one i like. it'll be much cheaper for me to get reels once i've decided on one.

the threads in this section are so random and disorganized. its hard to find a definitive thread comparing red code, big banger, etc. with unbiased opinions that have some intelligent reasoning. and many threads end up being huge debates with quotes from articles and start to get personal, and i just cant stand reading people insulting each other and not answer questions.

i think from what i've read, the gauge doesn't really affect spin much, that sounds logical. i might use thicker gauges ike 16 or 15. i been using mainly 17 NRG2 and in the last couple months 16 on the duraflex.

i'm thinking about one of those poly in the cross, nrg/x1 in the main. or if i like the poly, just use all poly.

i tried iso speed control since the chang family is so obsessed with it, it was pretty good especially with the pocketing at first, but then it started to feel pretty dead and go soft and i was glad when it broke. it was decent on my sister's storm tour. i do prefer a crisper feel but i think spin is most important for me. oh yeah and maybe some durability.

NoBadMojo
10-18-2007, 06:09 PM
Random Stringing musings...........

-Soften a harsh hitting racquet with a soft string?
Quite often a miss match. Stiff racquets are most often powerful racquets and soft springy strings are often powerful. so by the time you've striung tightly enough for control, you've often created a boardy striungbed with a smaller sweetzone
Believe the net result of doing this is that you soften the stringbed only and the frame plays just as stiff <or maybe even stiffer>. if your frame is too stiff and uncomfortable buy another racquet..it's not worth compromising your health

-Evaluating a string
Evaluate the string by what your ball is doing on the other side of the shot <after the bounce> and not in the air. does your slice skid? does your volley pierce the court? etc

-Which gauge
Most often the gauge doesnt affect the power of the string nor the spin rate. it only affects the ball feel with thinner gauge strings feeling more crisp than thicker.

-Poly
Avoid it! I'm serious. Why possibly compromise your health to use what the pros use or to have a chance at better performance.
To get the benefit of poly you need a boatload of batspeed and it takes good technique to have the batspeed...even if you do have the technique, there is always the risk of injury..lots of cases of poly injuries even amongst advanced players w. good technique.players like pros. I am familiar with copoly...while an improvement in comfort in some cases, think it's not majour enough and the overall advantages over regular poly are mostly hype and minimal
If you cant volley well and you wish to volley well, poly will likely hurt you. As mentioned earlier, the string works well only if tons of batspeed is created. Your basic volley has little bat speed. Also volleys require feel ..something poly isnt known for especially at slow racquet head speed. yes, i know some pros volley well using poly
Playability - short lived with poly. pros dont care as they switch to a fresh stringjob every few games
The single advantage to poly is that you can rip the ball and the string causes the ball to seek the baseline given good technique but not go long..pros like this because it takes hitting long out of the equation

-Gut
A string for the advanced player. waste of money to use it as a cross in a hybrid. if using it for arm safety, it's arguably the best, but there are many synthetics which play comfortably. The diferences I have found in gut arent ball speed related. slices bite a little more, serves kick slightly higher, etc..they are minour improvements.

-Tension
Have found many stringers string higher than the stated tension.
Have found that many guys string too tight of their own volition wrongly. They often do this citing 'my racquet is too powerful' or 'i cant control my shots when the racquet is strung looser'. many times the right answer is that they dont have the skill to control the ball and dont have the technique to spin the ball for control...this often leads to other wrong choices in gear and unecessary modifications to racquets and forming bad habits..best bet is to learn spin for control and not string tightly..this makes your game nore imposing

-Prestretching.
I believe many strings benefit by a proper prestretch, but this is usually a personal preferance. Upping the tension a little doesnt have the same effect. If unsure of the proper prestretch it is usually best to do no prestretch at all

-Hybridding
Popular but my original post applies. coupling a poly with gut creates a miss match. gut plays well for a along time, poly does not. gut holds its tension much better than poly. if you want to soften up a poly main stringjob just use a cheap synthetic..this will actually <likely> play better for longer as the tension will dump lots more on the cheapo synthetic than the expensive gut, countering < a little> that the poly goes dead. the only hybrid i have tried which made a significant increase in performance for a long enough time is the Mojo setup (not named by me). this is an exception..there may be others.

-2 point stringing machines.
Get poo'd around here, but I've only had one problem in many years of stringing my personal frames on a cheesy dropweight stringer. that was stringing a friends Wilson profile which was structurally unsound. I actually think I get very good results on these..also gives me a better feel for the string. if stringing only for your own use and for a buddy occassionally these do the job fine altho i really dont suggest them for poly..they sure arent designed with poly in mind

-String tension, string type and sweetzone size
rarely discussed here. tighter tensions reduce sweetzone size. stiff string <poly> reduces sweetzone size. a midsized frame strung tightly w. poly = the bad trifecta ;O

END

may add more later. fine if people dont agree, but these are my honest impressions

Alafter
10-18-2007, 07:16 PM
All points taken and concurred. But dude, didnt you choose to leave this board for good?

Alafter
10-18-2007, 07:18 PM
PS do you think a good soft main gets ruined by a poly cross?

Pusher
10-18-2007, 07:31 PM
"Hybridding
Popular but my original post applies. coupling a poly with gut creates a miss match. gut plays well for a along time, poly does not. gut holds its tension much better than poly. if you want to soften up a poly main stringjob just use a cheap synthetic..this will actually <likely> play better for longer as the tension will dump lots more on the cheapo synthetic than the expensive gut, countering < a little> that the poly goes dead. the only hybrid i have tried which made a significant increase in performance for a long enough time is the Mojo setup (not named by me). this is an exception..there may be others."

Hybrids are the golden goose for string companies. Never have so many given so much for so little.
String companies will ride that horse until it drops dead.

Fries-N-Gravy
10-18-2007, 07:51 PM
regardless of swingspeed, most people swing the wrong way and that is why they get tennis elbow. a proper swing should originate from your trunk and legs and through your arm, a very long and early swing. people tend to swing from their arm or shoulder and it hurts them as well as cause them to hit horrible shots. using a lightweight racquet promotes and rewards horrible swings a little but the lack of mass means the shock is taken by the arm. but then people are mislead to think if they swing the same way with a heavy racquet, it will relieve them of pain, they realize they are swinging late because of the heavier racquet and start swinging even harder from the arm, resulting in worse tennis elbow. they then try using natural gut 18g at 40lbs thinking that is the solution, when really they need to either hire a good coach or fire their current one.

LPShanet
10-18-2007, 09:00 PM
-Tension
Have found many stringers string higher than the stated tension.
Have found that many guys string too tight of their own volition wrongly. They often do this citing 'my racquet is too powerful' or 'i cant control my shots when the racquet is strung looser'. many times the right answer is that they dont have the skill to control the ball and dont have the technique to spin the ball for control...this often leads to other wrong choices in gear and unecessary modifications to racquets and forming bad habits..best bet is to learn spin for control and not string tightly..this makes your game nore imposing


One addition: the common "wisdom" is that lower tensions create more power and higher ones more control. Per tests in numerous university physics labs, as well as by Crawford Lindsey and the USRSA folks, this actually turns out NOT to be true. A commonly accepted tennis myth busted.

It's now believed that the reason it's often perceived this way is that a looser stringbed actually causes the ball to leave the racquet at a higher angle of incidence, resulting in a longer shot, but not a faster one. So there is no additional power, just a slight change in arc/angle that makes people think the loose strings are too powerful. Similarly, tighter strings would simply cause a straighter angle of return, which seems to land shorter. If that is, in fact, true, those who need to tame their long balls with a "powerful" string tension really just need to adjust their mechanics and hit the ball lower (or tweak their grip).

NoBadMojo
10-19-2007, 05:50 AM
One addition: the common "wisdom" is that lower tensions create more power and higher ones more control. Per tests in numerous university physics labs, as well as by Crawford Lindsey and the USRSA folks, this actually turns out NOT to be true. A commonly accepted tennis myth busted.

It's now believed that the reason it's often perceived this way is that a looser stringbed actually causes the ball to leave the racquet at a higher angle of incidence, resulting in a longer shot, but not a faster one. So there is no additional power, just a slight change in arc/angle that makes people think the loose strings are too powerful. Similarly, tighter strings would simply cause a straighter angle of return, which seems to land shorter. If that is, in fact, true, those who need to tame their long balls with a "powerful" string tension really just need to adjust their mechanics and hit the ball lower (or tweak their grip).


good point which i failed to mention. the tension doesnt affect the ball speed...just the depth of the average shot.

would disagree with your last comment about lowering your trjaectory if you are hitting long....the better choice <usually> is to learn to spin the ball for control. that way you can almost take hitting into the net out of the equation

it's really easy to hit almost any racquet at any tension long. all it takes is some bad technique

Fries-N-Gravy
10-19-2007, 05:55 AM
there has to be some middle ground where a hybrid setup would perform/feel between a full gut or full poly, no? i don't think i'd ever pay for natural gut though.

TheFonz
10-19-2007, 08:40 AM
Random Stringing musings...........

-Soften a harsh hitting racquet with a soft string?
Quite often a miss match. Stiff racquets are most often powerful racquets and soft springy strings are often powerful. so by the time you've striung tightly enough for control, you've often created a boardy striungbed with a smaller sweetzone
Believe the net result of doing this is that you soften the stringbed only and the frame plays just as stiff <or maybe even stiffer>. if your frame is too stiff and uncomfortable buy another racquet..it's not worth compromising your health

-Evaluating a string
Evaluate the string by what your ball is doing on the other side of the shot <after the bounce> and not in the air. does your slice skid? does your volley pierce the court? etc

-Which gauge
Most often the gauge doesnt affect the power of the string nor the spin rate. it only affects the ball feel with thinner gauge strings feeling more crisp than thicker.

-Poly
Avoid it! I'm serious. Why possibly compromise your health to use what the pros use or to have a chance at better performance.
To get the benefit of poly you need a boatload of batspeed and it takes good technique to have the batspeed...even if you do have the technique, there is always the risk of injury..lots of cases of poly injuries even amongst advanced players w. good technique.players like pros. I am familiar with copoly...while an improvement in comfort in some cases, think it's not majour enough and the overall advantages over regular poly are mostly hype and minimal
If you cant volley well and you wish to volley well, poly will likely hurt you. As mentioned earlier, the string works well only if tons of batspeed is created. Your basic volley has little bat speed. Also volleys require feel ..something poly isnt known for especially at slow racquet head speed. yes, i know some pros volley well using poly
Playability - short lived with poly. pros dont care as they switch to a fresh stringjob every few games
The single advantage to poly is that you can rip the ball and the string causes the ball to seek the baseline given good technique but not go long..pros like this because it takes hitting long out of the equation

-Gut
A string for the advanced player. waste of money to use it as a cross in a hybrid. if using it for arm safety, it's arguably the best, but there are many synthetics which play comfortably. The diferences I have found in gut arent ball speed related. slices bite a little more, serves kick slightly higher, etc..they are minour improvements.

-Tension
Have found many stringers string higher than the stated tension.
Have found that many guys string too tight of their own volition wrongly. They often do this citing 'my racquet is too powerful' or 'i cant control my shots when the racquet is strung looser'. many times the right answer is that they dont have the skill to control the ball and dont have the technique to spin the ball for control...this often leads to other wrong choices in gear and unecessary modifications to racquets and forming bad habits..best bet is to learn spin for control and not string tightly..this makes your game nore imposing

-Prestretching.
I believe many strings benefit by a proper prestretch, but this is usually a personal preferance. Upping the tension a little doesnt have the same effect. If unsure of the proper prestretch it is usually best to do no prestretch at all

-Hybridding
Popular but my original post applies. coupling a poly with gut creates a miss match. gut plays well for a along time, poly does not. gut holds its tension much better than poly. if you want to soften up a poly main stringjob just use a cheap synthetic..this will actually <likely> play better for longer as the tension will dump lots more on the cheapo synthetic than the expensive gut, countering < a little> that the poly goes dead. the only hybrid i have tried which made a significant increase in performance for a long enough time is the Mojo setup (not named by me). this is an exception..there may be others.

-2 point stringing machines.
Get poo'd around here, but I've only had one problem in many years of stringing my personal frames on a cheesy dropweight stringer. that was stringing a friends Wilson profile which was structurally unsound. I actually think I get very good results on these..also gives me a better feel for the string. if stringing only for your own use and for a buddy occassionally these do the job fine altho i really dont suggest them for poly..they sure arent designed with poly in mind

-String tension, string type and sweetzone size
rarely discussed here. tighter tensions reduce sweetzone size. stiff string <poly> reduces sweetzone size. a midsized frame strung tightly w. poly = the bad trifecta ;O

END

may add more later. fine if people dont agree, but these are my honest impressions

Solid points. I would agree with all of this entirely.

I would also agree with your stringing suggestions. As a stringer though, Ido enjoy string kids sticks with poly because it goes dead so fast that it's not long before I get to redo the string job. I tell them, but they don't listen

LPShanet
10-19-2007, 09:26 AM
good point which i failed to mention. the tension doesnt affect the ball speed...just the depth of the average shot.

would disagree with your last comment about lowering your trjaectory if you are hitting long....the better choice <usually> is to learn to spin the ball for control. that way you can almost take hitting into the net out of the equation

it's really easy to hit almost any racquet at any tension long. all it takes is some bad technique

Good point....I was speaking in terms of physics, not tennis, when I referred to changing trajectory.

LPShanet
10-19-2007, 09:28 AM
there has to be some middle ground where a hybrid setup would perform/feel between a full gut or full poly, no? i don't think i'd ever pay for natural gut though.

Yes, and no. This is true in theory, but one problem is that since the two strings are different, very often the string bed ends up bearing an uneven load distribution between mains and crosses and doesn't play properly for at least some parts of its life, especially as the two different types stretch and/or go dead at different rates/point in their lives.

bmichaelia
10-19-2007, 09:41 AM
"Comments: This is partly jestful, but until someone reaches the 4.0-4.5 level they've got bigger technique fish to fry than tweaking strings. The performance differences (other than poly) is going to be pretty subtle, so why get confused with the myriad of string choices, guages, tensions, hybridding, prestretching, wax on...wax off Mr Miagi. ;O
I would like to follow up with a random musings post about stringing and maybe it will click with someone"

I've found that strings and tensions make quite a difference in my game, more so than a different racquet, even though I'm at a low 4.0 level. I have really benefited from experimenting. I like both poly and gut hybrids - the former so it's not harsh, and the latter to save money. To me, an all syn gut job is fair at best.