Pushy or Supportive Jr parents, Reality or Fantasy?

[Ty Ana Williams]

Pushy or Supportive:-(

The saying goes follow your heart, ok, good if you want to be a teacher instead of a farmer. With the expense of tennis today, to push a potential star or support a potential star.

Hingis trained apprx at 3
Agassi trained apprx at 5
Graf on the tour at 12
S. Williams born to play
Austin on the tour at 12
Capriati on the tour at 13
V. Williams born to play
Sharapova full time at bollettieri at 9 pro at 14
Chang Grand Slam winner at 15
there's many more!


All have became stars on the tour. At some point in their life, support became a push for excellence.

Consider this:
The Cost of rising a kid today(USA) 269,520(apprx)http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CollegeandFamily/Raisekids/P37245.asp
The cost of a player from 10(late age) to 18 including ITF Jr from 16(late age) to 18 200,000(apprx) lessons, travel, training & master tour (excluding coaching & camps) Total 469,520(apprx) and this child has only graduated high school.
Pushy or Supportive?;)

VS

Cost of college: Penn State 10,856yr X4 43,424 in state(excluding dorm cost)http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CollegeandFamily/Cutcollegecosts/P125902.asp?GT1=6939
Cost of a house: 218,000 to 350,000(apprx)
Cost of two cars: 70,000(apprx) 35k each
and many other comparables.
Pushy or Supportive?:confused:

The great thing about this country is it's the land of possibilities, and everyone has a chance to try.

Although this is the far end of the spectrum; in many cases, but the question remains.

Ty Ana Williams "The best to be":grin:

[justsomeguy]

You know you are doing something wrong. You wouldn't post things like this otherwise. Looking for justification about how you raise your child from strangers on the internet? Sad. I feel for your daughter.

[BradBaughman]

Williams your being a fool to try and share your dreams you have for your daughter with everyone,most the people on these chat rooms dont have any dreams or any hope ,you do, your in love with your daughter and your wanting her to succeed you want to challenge anything or anyone who gets in the way of that,thats just the pride you have for your daughter doing well, Im all for it but in these chat rooms you will be critisized for it! remember this road of tennis is only for the tough!Yes if you want your daughter to have a chance at the tour she will have to be Pushed no one makes it being coddled as for the way your raising her i dont know i dont live with you but from one parent to another off that court make sure there is alot of hugs and kisses but on that court its all buisness shes not there to have fun just win ,If she wants to have fun take her to disneyland or 6 flaggs or a park or something hope the best on your journey Brad

[BradBaughman]

not maney in america push their kids only support thats why american tennis is hurting were letting the kids call the shots and what do they know

[TennisCoachFLA]

They are your kids, you guys follow the path you think is best. You listed some nice examples, I am sure you are aware those 8 folks you mentioned are out of thousands and thousands of kids who were "pushed" by their parents. I don't know how that percentage compares to kids pushed by their parents to get into a good college.

There are also examples of Pete Sampras who found an old racquet in the basement at 8 and started all on his own. Or Federer who loved soccer and made his own choice at 13 to go with tennis. Justine Henin was introduced to tennis at age 6 but choose to play elite soccer all through her youth. There is a cute video of her dominating at soccer as a kid on You Tube. She made her decision to go with tennis full time at age 14.

All I can say is that in my 30 plus coaching years, the vast majority of "pushed" kids drop out of tennis at 12-15. And almost all kids who are tops under 12 are not tops at 18, for various reasons.

Anyway, best of luck to all tennis kids and their parents.

[tenniscrazed]

This was a quote I found, I hope that this helps.

"Tracking kids in their elementary school years found that the highest ranked children were still the highest ranked children in less than 25% cases.

Whereas late bloomers generally exceeded the performance of the early bloomers in the remaining 75% of the cases."


I posted this in another thread and I think it's also very appropriate here. Read it carefully and count the number of names listed above. If you were in Vegas would you bet on the 75% chance of a win or 25%. The 8 or so that were listed are part of the "less than 25% remaining". But I say push until you or your kid drops. Everyday thousands and thousands of balls. Use a ball machine to feed even more thousands of balls GO FOR IT. In fact, even better start him/her on a one hander at 10. Yea, great idea. Hennin - Hardenne here she comes.

[tenniscrazed]

Even better, start him / her on a "pro fitness" program which has him / her in the weight room lifting dead weights, oh and don't forget two a days at least three days a week. Yea thats it, do that. Then of course there is the evenings full of tennis videos until bed time. Don't worry about burn out thats just for non "elite". The "elite" did it right?

[calihitter122]

Tennisflorida you are correct there are a lot of kids that are pushed and drop out then there are those who are push and make it , Ill be the first to tell you my kids have been pushed at tennis to play at a high level, theyve also been push at school work to acheive the highest grades, theyve also been pushed to keep their rooms clean,and most importantly theyve been push to respect there elders(charater) and hold the door for a women entering a room.My kids are pushed at alot of things NOT SHOVED but pushed! im sure youve youtube my son deiton hes 10 and he has now and incredible work ethic from being pushed he also has great reading, math and writing skills from being pushed (education first),Hes wanting to go pro and to make at that level you either push your self or you are pushed like all those on the list its not an easy road but anyone wanting to make it is heading down a very grueling road,Im like everyone of you i just hope the parent that is pushing on the court can show a real soft side off the court

[calihitter122]

IVE used my sons screen name anyone who want to chat with him is welcome to question him on any of his goals or dream or quiz him on any part of the history of this sport Brad

[calihitter122]

[QUOTE=calihitter122;1828910]
hey everyone

[schaefferm46]

sorry to say but from the videos your daughter is talented enough to be talking about a pro career...she doesnt move her feet

[TennisCoachFLA]

Deiton, best of luck. I certainly do not want to rain on anyone's parade. Tennis has been my life and I hope you have a great future. All I can do is lay out the highest percent success rate formula for boys. I have been lucky enough to work with many talented kids, the best of which was Andy Roddick when he was at Rick Macci's while I was on Rick's staff. Here is what works the best for boys.

1. Play multiple sports up until age 14-15 at least. This will help you become an all around athlete, decrease mental and physical burnout, and reduce repetitive use injuries. Soccer is great for footwork and cardio. Swimming is great for cardio and is low stress. Basketball is great for footwork. Martial arts are great for focus and learning how to use power effectively. Avoid baseball, it is a different swing pattern and can disrupt your tennis swing.

2. Develop a second love that is non sport related. The Bryan brothers loved playing musical instruments. Read their dad, Wayne Bryan's book, Raising Smiling Tennis Kids.

3. Don't get discouraged when you go through an awkward stage in a few years. You may have a period of not being as coordinated for a little while. It happens to all boys, you will get through it before you know it.

4. Don't fall into the ranking point trap. Many kids and parents play the game of playing safe and dodging some opponents to gain points. Use tournaments to take chances, try new shots. You have to lose a lot to ever become great.

5. Be humble, help less talented kids with their games, send thank you notes to tennis coaches and tournament organizers. This goes a loooong way as you work up through the ranks.

Take care guys, gotta run.

[calihitter122]

cant we all just get along please

[calihitter122]

hahahahaha

[calihitter122]

thanks tennisflorida

[calihitter122]

I dont worry about rankings i love this game and me and my dad are mabey taking a year off to help me learn how to throw a football better ,also i train in boxing with my dad he used to fight but not anymore hes has to have and operation cause of fighting,but we have a good time training together Deiton

[TennisCoachFLA]

Sounds great Deiton. One more tip for you. Become great at two things and you will have a big advantage over other guys. These are:

1. Return of serve. This skill is overlooked sometimes. But it gives you a huge advantage in any match.

2. Develop a great 2nd serve. It is great to have a killer first serve. But the guy with the best 2nd serve wins a lot of matches.

Have a great night.

[slice bh compliment]

Pushy or Supportive:-(

The saying goes follow your heart, ok, good if you want to be a teacher instead of a farmer. With the expense of tennis today, to push a potential star or support a potential star.

Hingis trained apprx at 3
Agassi trained apprx at 5
Graf on the tour at 12
S. Williams born to play
Austin on the tour at 12
Capriati on the tour at 13
V. Williams born to play
Sharapova full time at bollettieri at 9 pro at 14
Chang Grand Slam winner at 15
there's many more!


All have became stars on the tour. At some point in their life, support became a push for excellence.

Consider this:
The Cost of rising a kid today(USA) 269,520(apprx)http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CollegeandFamily/Raisekids/P37245.asp
The cost of a player from 10(late age) to 18 including ITF Jr from 16(late age) to 18 200,000(apprx) lessons, travel, training & master tour (excluding coaching & camps) Total 469,520(apprx) and this child has only graduated high school.
Pushy or Supportive?;)

VS

Cost of college: Penn State 10,856yr X4 43,424 in state(excluding dorm cost)http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CollegeandFamily/Cutcollegecosts/P125902.asp?GT1=6939
Cost of a house: 218,000 to 350,000(apprx)
Cost of two cars: 70,000(apprx) 35k each
and many other comparables.
Pushy or Supportive?:confused:

The great thing about this country is it's the land of possibilities, and everyone has a chance to try.

Although this is the far end of the spectrum; in many cases, but the question remains.

Ty Ana Williams "The best to be":grin:

Great post!

Except the part about Chang winning a GS at 15. He was 17.

Oh, and also, I have a problem with taking a "Return on Investment" type of outlook to childrearing.

But other than those two little things, great post.

[tennis_nerd22]

to TennisCoachFLA:

I really liked reading your tips and everything. I'm wondering if you have any tips for late starters? I was a soccer player since i was 4, and i took tennis lessons for a month when i was 6 and then stopped it. I still play soccer (ill be 17 early next year), and tennis is my "main sport" now, which i decided earlier this year. ive realized that im 2 years behind the guys im competing against now and im in working towards getting a college scholarship.

do you have any tips for me? so far ive learnt that tennis is a rough and bumpy road... haha. but im going by myself with my parents, cuz lessons havent worked out that much (waste of $ cuz most of the coaches jip you off). and for the last year (since winter when i didnt have a club to play at and $ was an issue), my dad built a wall in my basement about half the length of a court and thats how i got better last winter and even now.

any tips at all would be great, because you're one of the first people who i've seen on the boards who actually know what they're talking about when it comes to junior tennis.

thanks

[raiden031]

As much as I'd love to have a child become a tennis pro, I don't think its worth the effort unless you have unlimited wealth and alot of free time already. For one, its probably one of the hardest sports to make a living because so few of the players make any money. You're better off pushing your kids to succeed at football, baseball, basketball.

My goal when I become a parent will be to raise a child who can get an athletic scholarship in whatever sport they end up loving and excelling in the most. Obviously I'm going to try to influence them to like tennis, but if they don't like it then that will be the end of it. There are other sports and I'd rather they play any sport than be one of those kids sitting home playing video games all the time.

[Dashbarr]

They are your kids, you guys follow the path you think is best. You listed some nice examples, I am sure you are aware those 8 folks you mentioned are out of thousands and thousands of kids who were "pushed" by their parents. I don't know how that percentage compares to kids pushed by their parents to get into a good college.

There are also examples of Pete Sampras who found an old racquet in the basement at 8 and started all on his own. Or Federer who loved soccer and made his own choice at 13 to go with tennis. Justine Henin was introduced to tennis at age 6 but choose to play elite soccer all through her youth. There is a cute video of her dominating at soccer as a kid on You Tube. She made her decision to go with tennis full time at age 14.

All I can say is that in my 30 plus coaching years, the vast majority of "pushed" kids drop out of tennis at 12-15. And almost all kids who are tops under 12 are not tops at 18, for various reasons.

Anyway, best of luck to all tennis kids and their parents.


Great examples. If people are being forced to play tennis and severely encouraged to win, where is their self-motivation? They have been pushed into playing tennis, and its simply win, or don't win and we'll have a 30 minute talk about how you lost, why you lost, and what should happen to you for losing (I was watching a girls 12's match in a championship at the tennis center I basically live at, and the fathers were still on a bench talking to each other as they watched the match. I overheard one say "She keeps missing high backhands. We're gonna have a talk about that." I was completely stunned! Its not as if she lost the match because she was too busy breaking the rules or doing anything wrong that hindered her from winning. His tone was so serious! Like she had just slammed her racket into the floor and got a point penalty or something!) If the child naturally gravitates towards wanting to play tennis excessively, by all means encourage him/her. But you don't have to mindlessly plug her, and build up alllll this hype that'll only come all crashing down when she/he burns out. If the child doesn't, don't stress it. they may be good, but that doesn't mean they want to play.

That's my 2 cents.

[BradBaughman]

Great examples. If people are being forced to play tennis and severely encouraged to win, where is their self-motivation? They have been pushed into playing tennis, and its simply win, or don't win and we'll have a 30 minute talk about how you lost, why you lost, and what should happen to you for losing (I was watching a girls 12's match in a championship at the tennis center I basically live at, and the fathers were still on a bench talking to each other as they watched the match. I overheard one say "She keeps missing high backhands. We're gonna have a talk about that." I was completely stunned! Its not as if she lost the match because she was too busy breaking the rules or doing anything wrong that hindered her from winning. His tone was so serious! Like she had just slammed her racket into the floor and got a point penalty or something!) If the child naturally gravitates towards wanting to play tennis excessively, by all means encourage him/her. But you don't have to mindlessly plug her, and build up alllll this hype that'll only come all crashing down when she/he burns out. If the child doesn't, don't stress it. they may be good, but that doesn't mean they want to play.

That's my 2 cents.

Just a thought i dont know the background of these fathers nor their relationship with there daughters some of it sounds ridiculious but let me pose this question. ( If our military decided to train the forces the way we want the parents in tennis to train our kids, Lets say the seargent just let the troops decide on their own what time they wanted to get up ,how maney push ups they wanted to do, how far to run, how do you think our military would look and perform be very honest with your answer and remember the guys joining have to be 18 and knowing the history of our great fighting men its been a grueling road to have the best military in the world and everyone of those guys takes pride in what theyve accomplished even though they were push and Shoved. Just a thought but getting to the top is never and easy road!!!!!!!

[MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER]

Going to go back over to "The dark side" (adult sections).... beat of luck on your tennis ambitions and dreams.
May God help our fellow posters & freinds in So. California, if Big Bear goes, it may become really bad scene.

I like this thread as it sums up every perspective, like I said in other posts (generally)

We have always been taught/teach to let your game talk, to be truthful, supportive of other players, and thankful; It's called "Grace" and that seems to work for the Brett brothers and the Ripkens.
You have two ears and one mouth for a reason- to hear twice as much as talk.
I'm taking the last kid and forcing the racket from his hand, and stick him back on the mound- College wise, I like the odds a lot better. Universities need a heck of a lot more left handed pitching then men tennis players.

If you want to point out costs with sports, always remember you could be spending the same amounts (or more) on lawyers, doctors, social counselors
and that lot. Finally, you pushy guys remeber the Menendez brothers- two fine Jr. players who are available to tell you thier story, anytime, up in Folsum.

[baydad]

TennisCoachFLA,

Thanks for your posts.
Weren't Andy Roddick used to play baseball?

My son plays baseball. I notice he has some problems from playing baseball.
One thing is he doesn't control the strength well. In baseball, you always hit with all your strength. I guess this is why he has the problem.

Baseball and Tennis are the two sports he is playing now. :-(

[max]

I played high school tennis. We had no "school uniform" and parents never showed up.

I think it was better that way, tell the truth. I've been at some current hs matches (and I see all these parents flocking around soccer games, etc.), and I think, "just let the kid go out and establish himself, on his own terms, with his agemates."

I agree with the folks who say there's "helicopter parents".

[TennisCoachFLA]

TennisCoachFLA,

Thanks for your posts.
Weren't Andy Roddick used to play baseball?

My son plays baseball. I notice he has some problems from playing baseball.
One thing is he doesn't control the strength well. In baseball, you always hit with all your strength. I guess this is why he has the problem.

Baseball and Tennis are the two sports he is playing now. :-(

Yes, Andy did indeed play baseball as a kid. He loved the game. He had to make a choice as he got older.

The problem with baseball is that it is a very different swing pattern than tennis. And like you said, you don't use a lot of feel and touch in baseball like tennis....except bunting but how often do bunts occur? Rick Macci, Bollettieri, and other top coaches have advocated that tennis kids stay away from baseball and softball.

Of course kids can play baseball and then excel in Tennis, like you said, Roddick did it. But we are talking how to stack the odds in the kids favor as much as possible.

Soccer is great for footwork and conditioning. Basketball footwork, lateral movement. Swimming provides cardio work with less stress on the body. These and other sports compliment tennis.

Baseball does not except for hand-eye-ball coordination. But most coaches feel the negatives of the different swing pattern negates any benefit from baseball.

But here is the kicker, if the kid loves baseball, so be it, you have to live with it.

[BradBaughman]

Tennisflorida are anywheres near bradenton need some info you might have

[MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER]

Ohhhhhhhhhhh....brother, here we go- just knew it was a matter of time before genuflecting toward the temple.

Why don't you just pull him out of school while you are at it and completely destroy any relationships or interests he may have outside of tennis-
Yeah, home school (read: no school) him so he has no social skills to go along with no education- a gift that can really last a life time, 'cause after all, you only need a be able to flip up a tennis ball with your foot to get by, right?

[Tennis_Bum]

Sounds great Deiton. One more tip for you. Become great at two things and you will have a big advantage over other guys. These are:

1. Return of serve. This skill is overlooked sometimes. But it gives you a huge advantage in any match.

2. Develop a great 2nd serve. It is great to have a killer first serve. But the guy with the best 2nd serve wins a lot of matches.

Have a great night.

Don't be offended when I ask you this question about Andy Roddick since you mentioned that you used to coach him at RMTA. Why is Roddick's return, volley and backhand are so weak at this stage of this career? Did he just serve all day and hit everything with his forehand when he was a junior learning the game at RMTA? Isn't it a little late right now to start working and moving toward the net, improving the return and backhand?

You mentioned about the return as one of the important thing. Why is Roddick's return is so weak relatively compared to his serve, and to others. I know a bunch of pros who return a lot, a lot better than Andy. Did Rick Macci just tell Andy to just serve the hell out of the your opponent to intimidate them. That may work in juniors but as you know it didn't work too well on the pros. As far as ranking goes, Andy is top ten, but as far as skills go, Andy is far from the top three right now.

Can you be objective and discuss more about Andy's game? I would appreciate your comments. Thanks

[TennisCoachFLA]

Don't be offended when I ask you this question about Andy Roddick since you mentioned that you used to coach him at RMTA. Why is Roddick's return, volley and backhand are so weak at this stage of this career? Did he just serve all day and hit everything with his forehand when he was a junior learning the game at RMTA? Isn't it a little late right now to start working and moving toward the net, improving the return and backhand?

You mentioned about the return as one of the important thing. Why is Roddick's return is so weak relatively compared to his serve, and to others. I know a bunch of pros who return a lot, a lot better than Andy. Did Rick Macci just tell Andy to just serve the hell out of the your opponent to intimidate them. That may work in juniors but as you know it didn't work too well on the pros. As far as ranking goes, Andy is top ten, but as far as skills go, Andy is far from the top three right now.

Can you be objective and discuss more about Andy's game? I would appreciate your comments. Thanks

I totally agree with you about Andy's weaknesses. To be quite frank with you, he left Macci's way to soon, before Rick could give him a great foundation. And that was also during his baseball days, so we did not get his full attention and interest.

His mother was running the show. She took him to John Evert and eventually he went to Saddlebrook.

Rick Macci stresses return of serve, learning confidence at the net, having great fundamentals and then branching our creatively. But Rick also tends to rub some tennis parents the wrong way, he wants the kids to take years to learn the sport and many parents want quick results.

Richard Williams, Capriati's dad and Roddick's mom all took their kids away from Macci's after 1-3 years. Rick swears they would have all been better all around players and tacticians had they stayed longer.

[TennisCoachFLA]

Tennisflorida are anywheres near bradenton need some info you might have

Brad, we are over on the east coast in Parkland, FL. Are you looking for info on Bollettieri's in Bradenton?

[brayman9]

i think it depends what level u are at.

[BradBaughman]

Img has called us inquiring if deiton is playing edd hur kinda needed to know what the hotels (Abundence of) are pletty or few in the area

[BradBaughman]

Ohhhhhhhhhhh....brother, here we go- just knew it was a matter of time before genuflecting toward the temple.

Why don't you just pull him out of school while you are at it and completely destroy any relationships or interests he may have outside of tennis-
Yeah, home school (read: no school) him so he has no social skills to go along with no education- a gift that can really last a life time, 'cause after all, you only need a be able to flip up a tennis ball with your foot to get by, right?

NO way im leaving him in public school where 99% of the kids are either doing drugs, drinking, be taught to have sex before marriage (use a condomand its ok) cussing or threatining (colimbine types) each other or the teachers only to be defended when their parents show up and defend their disrespectful behavior and say it the teachers fault! and be in a system that lowers the test scores and learning levels so we can pass all the minoritys that usually come from broken home(whos your daddy syndrome) or have broken the laws sneeking across the border only to produce non english speaking gang member that have made our schools a war zone! What kind of social skills is he going to learn dumbass!I deal very closely with the public school system and you probably dont like your kid if you have them in there!!!

[baydad]

TennisCoachFLA,

Thanks.

My son has played baseball since T-ball and is quite good at it.
He used to play basketball, soccer and swim. But don't have the time to
do these since starting to play tennis.

I will let him play both a couple more years to see what he likes most.
Then he will probably need to choose one out of the two sports.

[MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER]

I guess I am supposed to assume from that misguided rant that YOU are teaching him? Oh great, thats good news- now two people to try and decipher writings from.
Like I said, if nothing else that little trick of rolling his racket down his arm, or
flicking tennis balls up with his foot SHOULD serve him in good stead as an adult. I took the metro train to downtown LA and met a man with similar skills- throwing tennis balls @ 20 stories up the side of a office building and catching them- anybody else seen him? Same type schooling and career path; Show cost me a buck but well worth it from a former Junior tennis can't miss "star".
If you are keeping your kid out of school because of this blinding ambition,sa so, just don't list a litinany of social problems as a cover for not sending him to someplace with people who are paid to teach.

[TennisCoachFLA]

NO way im leaving him in public school where 99% of the kids are either doing drugs, drinking, be taught to have sex before marriage (use a condomand its ok) cussing or threatining (colimbine types) each other or the teachers only to be defended when their parents show up and defend their disrespectful behavior and say it the teachers fault! and be in a system that lowers the test scores and learning levels so we can pass all the minoritys that usually come from broken home(whos your daddy syndrome) or have broken the laws sneeking across the border only to produce non english speaking gang member that have made our schools a war zone! What kind of social skills is he going to learn dumbass!I deal very closely with the public school system and you probably dont like your kid if you have them in there!!!

I have to agree with you Brad. We are home schooling parents. I don't get the argument that home schooled kids are not socialized. That makes no sense. Home school kids participate in every possible event, sports, clubs, trips. They still spend most of their free time with other kids, they just don't sit at a desk 6 hours a day in a class room stuffed with 40 kids, some with some very major problems.

Home school kids do better on every sort of test. These are not the schools of our youth. Things have dramatically changed.

[BradBaughman]

Deiton exited school long before he ever picked up a raquet(2yrs before) mainly and from my other threads you should have caught it (education first) I dont beleive you can make it at a pro level with out being educated at a high level, and Mighty you seem to do your homework go check the levels not only socially but academicly our schools are bankrupt and their is no way i would leave my child who I Love in that type of arena.Its near child abuse in my eyes, Deition is considering marine bioligy as his major ,get that a 11yr.old with a goal in life allready studying for it, go quiz a handfull of 18yr.old public schoolers and see what you come up with (ambition giants)nothing but guideless kids with no parential help to direct them .No tennis is not his meal ticket but mabey who knows(its his dream) as for the academies weve had offers, kindly to turn them down,We want the best for Deiton we do our homework Deitons friends are some of the best people life has to offer (socially)one person that comes to mind that Deiton loves to be around as much as he can (at clinics)is Peter Smith the head coach of usc mens team my son love being around him and allways ask if we can hang out with the man, i have to let my son know that the man is very busy! but i like who my son gravitates towards,great people like Pete!

[BradBaughman]

Tennisflorida most people are very ignorant to the school systems and how bad they are, I know(personally) two teachers who have told me and my wife if we were to put Deiton in public school they wouldin some way be digusted with us, they are on the front lines and that speaks volumes to us we have good hearing and we listen, I hope the best and are glad to hear youve made a great choice for your kids keep up the good work Brad

[MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER]

I asked if YOU are teaching him. As far as I have raed, you could be the guy in downtown LA throwing against the bldg.
As far as defending the decision to home school, that is a highly personal choice and certainly none of my business; Pete Smith or Pete the plumber as far as I'm concerned, the first words out of a USC coach's mouth had better be "Why aren't you in school?"
We all know your kid is not some middle-of-the-road player in rankings, and craps kyptonite and all- but the question was YOU aren't teaching him are you? It is a very slippery slope- one assignment- one day- couple days off then what (better practice that building trick0.

[Tennis_Bum]

I have to agree with you Brad. We are home schooling parents. I don't get the argument that home schooled kids are not socialized. That makes no sense. Home school kids participate in every possible event, sports, clubs, trips. They still spend most of their free time with other kids, they just don't sit at a desk 6 hours a day in a class room stuffed with 40 kids, some with some very major problems.

Home school kids do better on every sort of test. These are not the schools of our youth. Things have dramatically changed.

My wife and I have a 15 month old son and are curious on how parents started their kids on home schooling. Can anyone here give me a few pointers? I know there are plenty of time but I am just curious how the process work.

[BradBaughman]

I asked if YOU are teaching him. As far as I have raed, you could be the guy in downtown LA throwing against the bldg.
As far as defending the decision to home school, that is a highly personal choice and certainly none of my business; Pete Smith or Pete the plumber as far as I'm concerned, the first words out of a USC coach's mouth had better be "Why aren't you in school?"
We all know your kid is not some middle-of-the-road player in rankings, and craps kyptonite and all- but the question was YOU aren't teaching him are you? It is a very slippery slope- one assignment- one day- couple days off then what (better practice that building trick0.

my wife is his teacher he's 6th grade but he is ahead in every subject by 2 grade levels (8th 9th grade math example)also studys so he can have his major, marine bioloigy ready to go if things dont work out in tennis will know where he's going by the time he 14,as for the first word coming out of Petes mouth shouldn't be why aren't you in school cause were at a clinic socializing and playing tennis and according TO YOU school is not about education it about friends and having fun heres your own words read them and weep! (Why don't you just pull him out of school while you are at it and completely destroy any relationships or interests he may have outside of tennis-
Yeah, home school (read: no school) him so he has no social skills to go along with no education- a gift that can really last a life time, 'cause after all, you only need a be able to flip up a tennis ball with your foot to get by, right?)

[tenniscrazed]

my wife is his teacher he's 6th grade but he is ahead in every subject by 2 grade levels (8th 9th grade math example)also studys so he can have his major, marine bioloigy ready to go if things dont work out in tennis will know where he's going by the time he 14,as for the first word coming out of Petes mouth shouldn't be why aren't you in school cause were at a clinic socializing and playing tennis and according TO YOU school is not about education it about friends and having fun heres your own words read them and weep! (Why don't you just pull him out of school while you are at it and completely destroy any relationships or interests he may have outside of tennis-
Yeah, home school (read: no school) him so he has no social skills to go along with no education- a gift that can really last a life time, 'cause after all, you only need a be able to flip up a tennis ball with your foot to get by, right?)


Man I'm glad you're wifes his teacher.

[BradBaughman]

Man I'm glad you're wifes his teacher.

Tenniscrazed you are incredibley intellegent to make this comment, First off my guess is Im too dumb to teach my kid academics mabey so! mabey not ! but think about this Einstien, on the thread "Playing Up" you ask for advise for your kids tennis from a bunch of yahoos "complete strangers" on a chat room that you dont even know what their credentials are, people who can show you no proof of any pudding,and your knocking a guy who has taken a few videos a young boy and developed one of the best 9-11 olds in the world not needing the help of complete strangers and the proof is in the pudding and if your son was on the other side of the net of Deiton he would tell you so. For your kids sake i hope your wifes the one who looks for baby sitter(people you know) on your guys night out, I know she has more sence for the kids best interest its a woman thing. love Brad.

[HyperHorse]

Tenniscrazed you are incredibley intellegent to make this comment, First off my guess is Im too dumb to teach my kid academics mabey so! mabey not ! but think about this Einstien, on the thread "Playing Up" you ask for advise for your kids tennis from a bunch of yahoos "complete strangers" on a chat room that you dont even know what their credentials are, people who can show you no proof of any pudding,and your knocking a guy who has taken a few videos a young boy and developed one of the best 9-11 olds in the world not needing the help of complete strangers and the proof is in the pudding and if your son was on the other side of the net of Deiton he would tell you so. For your kids sake i hope your wifes the one who looks for baby sitter(people you know) on your guys night out, I know she has more sence for the kids best interest its a woman thing. love Brad.

You ever heard of this thing called the ENTER key, its so hard reading something when people don't use paragraphs and just keep on typing like some caffiene fuelled lunatic and maybe you should read the dictionary instead of the Bible that way you won't pass on your poor grammatical and spelling habits to your children.

Are you hispanic by any chance?

[TennisCoachFLA]

My wife and I have a 15 month old son and are curious on how parents started their kids on home schooling. Can anyone here give me a few pointers? I know there are plenty of time but I am just curious how the process work.

Each state, and sometimes counties, have different requirements such as what records you have to submit to the school system, so check with your local administration.

You can get the complete curriculum online, books, everything you need. There are internet based schools. You can choose how much or little outside assistance you want. Many online schools will keep records for you, provide standardized tests, and help the kids apply to colleges. Most colleges look at homeschooled kids highly due to their superior performance.

There are many support groups that help the kids meet for sports and other activities. Spend some time Googling homeschool information in you area, you should find lots of it.

[BradBaughman]

You ever heard of this thing called the ENTER key, its so hard reading something when people don't use paragraphs and just keep on typing like some caffiene fuelled lunatic and maybe you should read the dictionary instead of the Bible that way you won't pass on your poor grammatical and spelling habits to your children.

Are you hispanic by any chance?

Look at my last name and then ask me if i am hispanic, dumbass! btw..webster who put together the dictionary was a very devout christian so please dont let your children use your guidance for race or history. what does a dictionary have to do writing complete sentences, when all a dictionary does is give you definitions of words, meanings, not how to write a paragraph, and your worried about me writing correctly, who's teaching your kids? love brad

[redsoxrock930]

hey brad how you been? btw thats pretty cool that deits teachers husband is on these boards too.

[redsoxrock930]

oh wait nvm r u saying that ur wife is deits teacher or what?

[BradBaughman]

HEY Redsock how you been, its been a while ? My wife is Deits teacher hes home schooled mainly to protect him from half the offspring thats on these chat boards. These guys are either very jealous of what ive done with my son or Deits probably beat there kids to near discouragment of ever playing the sport, so i end up having to deal with a lot of cheapshots online no big though!

hope all is well with you hope your training is going well and want you to know if your ever in the Carson area and want to put in a hit with Deit and my other boys let me know would love to have you join in you can guarentee you will have a great hit with the team that goes for you to So Cal. talk to you soon


hey look i found the enter button oh joy, thanx for all your help every body love Brad

[Pups11]

I would say all of this is one more reason that makes this country so great.
We can each choose what we want to do and someone else has the freedom of speech to blow on and on and on. It's like that with everything anymore, not one person can do anything without having all the prying eyes saying I told you so. Your wrong, my way is better, your gonna fail, the odds are against you, your just a dreamer blah blah blah. Maybe we should keep the extended comments to ourselves, it's not like a parent is going to stop allowing their child to be active in an activity just because someone on a forum says it's not a good thing. Live and let live would be my advise but what would I know I'm just some guy.

[MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER]

Oh, wait.... you are not inviting everyone? I'm sure I could add something to the soiree'.
Maybe I can bring some inflated egos with a side of mediocre W-L records, or I could bring some moonballs, but you will have to provide the excuses, as usual.
I am only here to serve and provoke- like the slave holding the laurel over the General's head... "This too, is fleeting"
By the by, Yes I am a rocket scientist just like Sampras' dad before me.

[IanRichardson]

Man I'm glad you're wifes his teacher.

you and me both...

Brad, have your wife teach you about punctuation.

[MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER]

Just did some looking around.... I'm terrribly confused here; We are talking about single-digit aged children? Like 9-10-11 years old? Ah ha ha ha ha.

[tenniscrazed]

you and me both...

Brad, have your wife teach you about punctuation.


And have her teach him tennis based on my "lack of knowledge" in tennis his odds of "making it" are better. And certainly with over 1,500 players playing Eddie Herr from 20 countries in multiple age divisions. IMG had nothing but time to call YOU. Right.

[MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER]

Let's be a little more calm about this.
OMG! We are NOT talking about a "Junior" here, in any sense of the word-We are talking about a CHILD!
You are putting a CHILD thru this (slightly less) than Circus performance; Short of a real (instead of mental) chair and whip.... I mean I don't want to hear anymore about "how he enjoys it' or 'how he is not in school because schools are so terrible" or Petey from SC or any of that- How exactly, is your son ANY different then these pitiable girls that are being advertised as "the pound for pound" or the next big thing?

[IanRichardson]

it is also kind of interesting to think about this.

John Isner lived an extremely normal life. Tennis was one of the many sports he played. Yes, he did train hard, but he had a life outside of tennis. He went to regular school, had friends outside of his own family, went to parties, was a normal guy. He made it. Quit thinking pushing your kids will make them great. Because #1 the way you are doing it is wrong and #2 it will burn them out.

[tennisjunkie101]

John Isner is 6'9 tall far above average comes from a family with a very decent income is definately not the normal kid ,and to make a blanket statement that pushing your kids is wrong is ignorant!

Use that ideoligy across the board Ian, next time your kids come home from school dont ask them if they have any homework dont tell them to get it done because that would be pushing them and that is wrong.

[MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER]

Tennisjunkie, are you related in some way to anyone on this board discussion, Hmmmm?

We are talking about making INFORMED rational choices, and parental responsibilities beyond the scary (and shallow) desire for some kind, any kind of reflected attention drawn from a CHILD.

We seem to have a have a series of contributors to this board who shouldn't be allowed to drive, (more or less procreate), that can't write, don't know a dictonary from a doorknob inflicting and even advertising the crappy life-changing decisions because they are free to do so.

I MIGHT even see doing this to a kid (...if his name was, like, "Boo" Radley
in To Kill a Mockingbird) but to advertise WHILE I was doing it? no.

[BradBaughman]

Mighty your right again there are some on this board who shouldnt be allowed to drive (JUNIOR FORUM) hhhhhm! I laugh at this board because im dealing with a bunch of guys who are way superior to me in education and life and what ever else, yet continue to attack me again and again ,none of them know me personally yet have all the answers on who i am and what im doing and where were going and not going ! I think the problem is you guys dont have what it takes to make it at anything in life you guys are all failures, oh wait you guys are the new breed of Americans(whimps) the ones that have been brain washed to never expect to succeed and it shows in your talk!

[IanRichardson]

John Isner is 6'9 tall far above average comes from a family with a very decent income is definately not the normal kid ,and to make a blanket statement that pushing your kids is wrong is ignorant!

Use that ideoligy across the board Ian, next time your kids come home from school dont ask them if they have any homework dont tell them to get it done because that would be pushing them and that is wrong.

can you show me where i said pushing your kids was wrong? i thought i said the way in which these people push their kids is wrong. Meaning if you want to push them, do it the right way. Send them to an academy for tennis. Dont just get them a mediocre coach and go out and try to teach them yourself. However, i still feel that pushing your kids extremely hard towards one thing will burn them out. My parents pushed me hard in school, but also made sports, and other extracurricular activities important in my life.


And about Isner, i took lessons from the same guy he did in Greensboro, NC and I am very much an average tennis player. So he is a pretty normal guy. The point i was making with him was that he did not have parents who taped him at 10 years old and claimed he would be great. They let natural progression take its course.

[BradBaughman]

Quit thinking pushing your kids will make them great. Because #1 the way you are doing it is wrong and #2 it will burn them out.(right here is where you said it)
then you use the word "thought" to try and fix you blanketed statement (i "thought" i said the way in which these people push) which means you either "know or think" when you make statemnets.

and this shows how much you know and listen, first off sending your kid to and accademie at a young age (and thats what this threads about these certain kids)is a recipe for physical disaster,I know plenty of kids who go in and end up playing injured until they ruin that body part, ive known to many personally, and talk about burn out rate and accademie will burn them out faster then anything at a young age go check the stats on that!
Weve had offers allready for are son (to attend accademie) and turned them down because of this reason yet you get on here and put me down for looking out for my sons best interest you are what i call ignorent and yes you can be educated and ignorant at the same time right Mighty

[tenniscrazed]

Mighty your right again there are some on this board who shouldnt be allowed to drive (JUNIOR FORUM) hhhhhm! I laugh at this board because im dealing with a bunch of guys who are way superior to me in education and life and what ever else, yet continue to attack me again and again ,none of them know me personally yet have all the answers on who i am and what im doing and where were going and not going ! I think the problem is you guys dont have what it takes to make it at anything in life you guys are all failures, oh wait you guys are the new breed of Americans(whimps) the ones that have been brain washed to never expect to succeed and it shows in your talk!

WOW. "don't have what it takes", "failures in life", "brainwashed". Those are are pretty harsh words I would say regardless of whether or not your child "farts cryptonite" (that was funny), whether or not he or you are homeschooled, whether or not you or anyone else owns a trumpet. I think your post calls for an introspective look at yourself and life. Begging your forgiveness I wish you all the best as this will likely be my last. Dr., B that should make you happy.

[MIGHTY MANFRED THE WONDER]

Yeah, like Tenniscrazed, I'm going to cut out on this line of posts...
Getting just a little too much slobber flecked on me for my liking.
I'm not much for rattling anyone's little ant farm when they can't comprehend; it's just cruel.
Well "Smart and ignorant at the same time"? "Failures"? I'm afraid you are really pulling out all the "trailer" phrases at one time.
I'll make sure and watch for you and yours from afar as it comes up in
various SOCAL USTA committee meetings.
Best of luck on that tennis career.

[IanRichardson]

the way you are doing it is wrong and #2 it will burn them out.

I never said pushing kids was wrong, i said how you do it is wrong. If you push them you cant push them half ass. I know several kids around here who have went to academies and are injury free. At any rate i think you should download yourself a firefox browser, brad. It has a spell check feature which is very nice.

[BradBaughman]

thanx the condesending superiors wont be bothering me anymore ( IF they keep their words) they call me uneducated (STUPID) they call me crazy (NUTCASE THREAD) these intensions arent harsh and then when i call them for what they are there upset , anyways lets move on ! love Brad

[redsoxrock930]

just a survey is there anyone who actually likes Mr. Williams philosophy's and outlooks on life. Personally, if i were his kid i would have committed suicide by 9, of course i probably would think it was normal, which is even more screwed up.

[redsoxrock930]

anyway gnight brad, i gotta finish up some english homework and go to bed cause i'm exhausted.

[BradBaughman]

redsock good night, hey how the Angels do anyways LOL

[north4t]

[QUOTE=Ty Ana Williams;1828393]Pushy or Supportive:-(

The saying goes follow your heart, ok, good if you want to be a teacher instead of a farmer. With the expense of tennis today, to push a potential star or support a potential star.

Hingis trained apprx at 3
Agassi trained apprx at 5
Graf on the tour at 12
S. Williams born to play
Austin on the tour at 12
Capriati on the tour at 13
V. Williams born to play
Sharapova full time at bollettieri at 9 pro at 14
Chang Grand Slam winner at 15
there's many more!


All have became stars on the tour. At some point in their life, support became a push for excellence.

Consider this:
The Cost of rising a kid today(USA) 269,520(apprx)http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CollegeandFamily/Raisekids/P37245.asp
The cost of a player from 10(late age) to 18 including ITF Jr from 16(late age) to 18 200,000(apprx) lessons, travel, training & master tour (excluding coaching & camps) Total 469,520(apprx) and this child has only graduated high school.
Pushy or Supportive?;)

VS

Cost of college: Penn State 10,856yr X4 43,424 in state(excluding dorm cost)http://moneycentral.msn.com/content/CollegeandFamily/Cutcollegecosts/P125902.asp?GT1=6939
Cost of a house: 218,000 to 350,000(apprx)
Cost of two cars: 70,000(apprx) 35k each
and many other comparables.
Pushy or Supportive?:confused

you name all of those great tennis players from the past and say that college costs $43,424 and tennis costs however much money from age 10-18. Tell me If I'm wrong, but don't all of those great child prodigys get scholarships to play tennis and scholarships to college if they decide to go.