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View Full Version : **VIDEO** of kid who is getting lessons


Homey
10-24-2007, 06:01 AM
This kid is in 8th grade. He has been playing socially for about 6 months.

I am trying to give him lessons. We have had 4 lessons so far and he needs lots of work. But, I wanted other peoples opinion on his weaknesses. I am basically wanting to know what is the most important thing for him to work on.

Backhand video below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P_-_crSxpUk

Forehand video below:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=58IHJOU329U

I have tried to work on low to high with him on his Forehand but he pretty much seems to swing high to high.

Also, his backhand has a lot of wrist in it, but it is actually his more consistent shot.

Thanks for the input.

WildVolley
10-24-2007, 06:43 AM
On the forehand, I'd teach a deliberate unit turn. This means he should hold his off hand on the throat of the racquet as he turns his shoulder and then point it at the side fence to lead his stroke. His left arm is just sort of hanging there. Also, see if you can get him to sit and lift.

If you want him to hit topspin, a good drill is to bring him close to the net and feed him low balls that he has to hit up on to get over the net. This will force him to understand the advantage of topspin. Good luck.

Seifersquall1
10-24-2007, 10:38 AM
He should work on his form. His backhand follow through kind of sucks.

CAM178
10-24-2007, 11:52 AM
Stop feeding him the balls so high. Give him balls at waist height. You're giving him advanced feeds, and he's only a beginner.

Seifersquall1
10-24-2007, 11:57 AM
Stop feeding him the balls so high. Give him balls at waist height. You're giving him advanced feeds, and he's only a beginner.
Ya, feed him balls at waist height so he can focus on developing solid technique.

TheShaun
10-24-2007, 12:07 PM
the kid's all wrists. if you don't get him to stop swatting at the ball with his wrist, you won't be teaching for long because of the pain in his wrist.

CAM178
10-24-2007, 12:12 PM
the kid's all wrists. if you don't get him to stop swatting at the ball with his wrist, you won't be teaching for long because of the pain in his wrist.

He's all wrist because of where the balls are getting fed to him. To me, it's impossible to analyze his strokes because he's hitting balls at head-level. Granted, I did not watch the whole video, but they both started the same way.

My advice: film 2 more videos with the kid receiving balls waist-high, and then show us again. He is a beginner, so cut the kid some slack. Right now, it is the instructor's fault.

Tennismastery
10-24-2007, 12:13 PM
Develop his swing path and footwork patterns first. Here are a couple shots of my daughter after she had been playing and practicing for six months to give a sense of foundation and development using what I call the Advanced Foundation. She is 8 years old.

http://www.tennisone.com/club/lessons/smith/prostrokes/kyla1.gif

This is an open stance forehand with a two-handed forehand, showing the preparation, stroke sequence and finish.

Compare her forehand to Federer's one-handed forehand and I think you will see some elements that we are working on:

http://www.tennisone.com/club/lessons/smith/prostrokes/fed1.gif

Here is a closed stance forehand:

http://www.tennisone.com/club/lessons/smith/prostrokes/kyla2.gif

While my daughter only practices two to three times a week for 45 minutes to an hour, her training of her stroke pattern is on par with advanced techniques.

She also is probably not the most gifted athlete...but is dedicated to the technical parts of the strokes. (Similar to her dedication to her piano and karate practices.)

Hope this helps see what you can do with a given student in six months time with some reasonable training.

smoothtennis
10-24-2007, 12:54 PM
Stop feeding him the balls so high. Give him balls at waist height. You're giving him advanced feeds, and he's only a beginner.

BINGO! He is taking forehand at head height...that is not fair to the kid.

Plisken
10-24-2007, 10:50 PM
teach him to stop hitting down as well it looks like a few balls are going right to the floor before even going to the net and on his backhand try to teach him to use more of his body turn then his wrist or else it will lead to bad habbits in the future.

CAM178
10-25-2007, 01:03 AM
teach him to stop hitting down as well it looks like a few balls are going right to the floor before even going to the net and on his backhand try to teach him to use more of his body turn then his wrist or else it will lead to bad habbits in the future.

Again (and I'm not just trying to criticize here. . I swear!), the kid is hitting down because of 2 simple reasons: 1. he is getting fed balls at head height, and 2. he is a beginner. Couple the two together, and you have a recipe for disaster.

Homey
10-25-2007, 11:58 AM
Thanks for the input. That is why I put the video on here...for more input.

However, I agree he is hitting the ball when it is too high. I do not agree that the problem is the "feeder/instructor".
If you will notice he is running forward about 5 feet to hit the ball when it is high, INSTEAD of letting the ball come to him. If he let the ball come to him, it would be about waist high.

So yes, he is hitting the ball when it is high, but he will need to be taught not to run forward and hit it high. It is not the instructor's feed causing the problem, IMO.

desilvam
10-25-2007, 12:12 PM
1) let him practice with the Penn T.I.P. 1 foam balls, or T.I.P. 2, or the ProPenn Star or Mini (pressureless) balls first. They do not bounce as high and move slower through the court..

2) have him move his feet so he is hitting the balls lower

3) also feed him balls a bit lower as someone else pointed out.. The ball should never rise above his head on the feed at any point.

4) Make him lock his wrists on both sides

krz
10-25-2007, 12:13 PM
Thats true if he let the balls get to the baseline the balls would be waist height.

As for his strokes. I think you should just start over at the basics and teach him the correct technique because everything is just really wrong :x. At this point hes just slapping at the ball over like an old man theres no follow through at all. Theres nothing really to "tweak" or work on in his strokes because the mechanics is just completely off.

J011yroger
10-25-2007, 12:13 PM
You mean he is not hitting off of a ball machine? Because it certainly sounds that way.

J

tennismaster888
10-25-2007, 12:24 PM
Develop his swing path and footwork patterns first. Here are a couple shots of my daughter after she had been playing and practicing for six months to give a sense of foundation and development using what I call the Advanced Foundation. She is 8 years old.

http://www.tennisone.com/club/lessons/smith/prostrokes/kyla1.gif

This is an open stance forehand with a two-handed forehand, showing the preparation, stroke sequence and finish.

Compare her forehand to Federer's one-handed forehand and I think you will see some elements that we are working on:

http://www.tennisone.com/club/lessons/smith/prostrokes/fed1.gif

Here is a closed stance forehand:

http://www.tennisone.com/club/lessons/smith/prostrokes/kyla2.gif

While my daughter only practices two to three times a week for 45 minutes to an hour, her training of her stroke pattern is on par with advanced techniques.

She also is probably not the most gifted athlete...but is dedicated to the technical parts of the strokes. (Similar to her dedication to her piano and karate practices.)

Hope this helps see what you can do with a given student in six months time with some reasonable training.

dang good job!!!! i wish i was that good after playing for 6th months...but ive been playing for 7 yrs now so im over it =]

koopa_troopa
10-25-2007, 01:04 PM
Tell your student that he can't cross the baseline or that he can only take one step into the court. That way he will be forced to wait for the ball to fall to the waist level. If you are feeding, trying throwing the balls from the net instead of using your racquet, that way the ball will be flatter and is less likely to bounce high and confuse beginners. Good luck.

Also try to get him to swing with a slightly slower, but more steady swing. His current swing looks very 'whippy' and doesn't seem very reproducible.

metamike
10-25-2007, 07:16 PM
:P This may sound silly...and it may sound like I have no Idea what I'm talking about, but it worked for me :).

I too started out tennis hitting balls too high and using too much wrist - but I simply started using a much heavier racquet.

I played for about two months with it, and my strokes were deeper, better technique, and after a week of wrist pain I simply stopped using my wrist that much :)

smoothtennis
10-26-2007, 08:35 AM
Look, you need to slow him down completely and start over. He will progress much faster this way.

Show him the swing path and have him shadow it before hitting balls. Make sure he can do it and do it slowly. Then feed him hand thrown balls so you hit the perfect strike zone, and have him hit them over with topspin as slowly as he can. Spend some time on this. As he gets into a better groove, instead of speeding up his swing talk to him about now adding weight transfer into the ball for more power.

Then he can start to speed up the swing. I have seen this work many times with complete newbs, and with expericed newbs with stroke defects.

See...they simply can't use all those terrible habits hitting slowly. They can't whip and slap at the ball, and the racket face has to be oriented correctly or it just won't go over.

The way you get him to do this with some enthusiasm is to convice him to try it, and explain that almost all power comes from technique, not muscle. And once he feels the way his racket is oriented, and how it feels contacting the ball with a little bite for spin, he will register all this in his brain, and seek that same feeling and pattern when he speeds it all up.

Good luck, it's fun teaching new people the game!

metamike
10-26-2007, 02:56 PM
Heh...No offense, but start over from where smoothtennis? He's not really anywhere good or bad...He's just...somewhere b ehind the starting line at this moment.

Oxford
10-26-2007, 03:21 PM
Get him behind the baseline and waiting for the ball.

have him hold his racquet infront of his face and raise it UPWARD when you hit the ball, then have him turn and make the C stroke into the ball. Don't worry about topspin. He has enough stuff to ingrain at moment. Break it down and get him used to fundamentals. Do alot of shadow swings too.
ox

tbini87
10-26-2007, 03:49 PM
on his forehand: you already know he is taking the ball too high, causing a high to high swing path like you said. he needs to work on all his forehand strokes being low to high.

backhand: it is almost pure wrist. he needs to keep his wrists more solid and use more arm to swing through it.

metamike
10-27-2007, 08:35 AM
Another thing just came to mind watching the videos: Advise him on a headband/haircut :)

Kid keeps flipping his hair every single shot like it's getting in his eyes.

NLBwell
10-27-2007, 11:41 PM
Basically, he hits like a typical beginner who has never had a lesson. Running toward the ball and then hitting a semi-overhead slap at the ball. Smoothtennis is right - You need to teach him proper strokes - let him know what you expect him to do by going through the swingpath. A turn and a slow stroke at the ball. You might hand feed only for several lessons depending upon how quickly he picks it up.
I hope you looked at tennismastery's videos of his daughter for hints of where to get to.
The student does seem to have pretty good hand-eye coordination

Nellie
10-28-2007, 10:26 AM
Agreed - you need to ajdust the kid's grip to at least an eastern forehand/backhand and to start the kid with his shoulders turned and the racquet back between his waist and shoulders. Have him stay in one place and soft feed him low balls that bounce to his knees so he can develop a looped swing path (from the higher higher initial take back position). When hitting, have the kid hit to fully extend the arms and up to the ski. After a couple of weeks, then you can work on more of a loop by having the kid start with the racquet forward, intiatiating unit turn/rotation and taking the racquet back to the position used in the initial drill.

smoothtennis
10-29-2007, 10:53 AM
Heh...No offense, but start over from where smoothtennis? He's not really anywhere good or bad...He's just...somewhere b ehind the starting line at this moment.

Good point, but you know...I think we mostly agree, start over by putting that fly-swatter I mean racket down, and explaining to this kid, and DEMONSTRATE what a proper grip, unit turn, stroke, and followthrough look like. Then begin with the shadow stroking, onto slow strokes, and you get the idea.