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View Full Version : List of tennis racquets that cause arm/shoulder problem/s.


gvanzky
10-25-2007, 10:16 AM
Can you tell what racquet/s you used that causes arm problem on your part and also mention the racquet/s you used without any problem/s.

dunlop m-fil 200 16X19 added lead to 12.6 oz about 8-9 pts head light gave
me terrible tennis elbow that i never experienced in 15 yrs. of playing and Pure Drive only used it for less than 1 hour and my arm is sore.

i used this racquets with no arm problems:

puma bb, original hammer 6.2, hyper hammer 5.2, fisher pro tour, and still using psc 6.1 and hps 6.1.

Doc Hollidae
10-25-2007, 10:37 AM
Haven't used it, but the Pure Drive is probably the leading candidate for arm pain.

grass_hopper
10-25-2007, 10:43 AM
cause of pain: pure drive with cortex, APDC, K95 6.1.

No problem: pure storm team, speedport black, microgel radical team, Boris Becker V1, microgel prestige.

galatti
10-25-2007, 11:13 AM
cause of pain: pure drive with cortex, APDC, K95 6.1.

No problem: pure storm team, speedport black, microgel radical team, Boris Becker V1, microgel prestige.

Agre on pure drive with cortex, APDC, K95 6.1.
Speedport black is realy arm friendly.
Heven't tried the others

drakulie
10-25-2007, 12:55 PM
Only racquet that ever gave me arm discomfort was the liquid metal radical.

daddy.dirtsurfer
10-25-2007, 01:50 PM
Wilson Pro Staff Tour 90 gave me TE and discomfort in my wrist.

NLBwell
10-25-2007, 03:17 PM
Wilson Hyper ProStaff 5.0

Schills
10-25-2007, 05:34 PM
Haven't used it, but the Pure Drive is probably the leading candidate for arm pain.

I've used it, and just don't understand how people say this racket causes any pain. To me, it felt as comfortable as hitting with a pillow. Plush. I find it very arm friendly. l believe arm pain is a result of either poor technique or poor fitness.

VGP
10-25-2007, 05:44 PM
For the most part, I don't see how it's helpful to make a list of rackets that would cause arm/shoulder problems.

It's a highly personal thing. Just as Schills says the PD is comfortable, it's not for other people.

At least there's enough variety out there and with access to a good demo program players can find a racket (and strings, overgrips, replacement grips, etc.) that fits them for both their game and their health.

Advice is good, but not absolute.


edit: I might add that I'm talking within reason......don't lead up your frame to 20 oz, 10 points head heavy, and string with kevlar at 80 pounds and replace your grip with strips of slate.

Alafter
10-25-2007, 07:26 PM
Well, I guess you gotta get your tennis elbow first before you can share in on this thread. I dont think we can understand elbow sensitivity until we get one ourselves. Maybe the touch and feel of the racquet becomes ultra sensitive after you get tennis elbow. So perhaps it could be said that this thread is aimed at ppl with pre existing problems.

If you dont got the elbow, chances are your arms can handle a lot more. And not surprisingly, even a PD can be comfy? Just like Schills, I do not have any arm problems. So I cannot share/fully understand how the heck the racquet can be painful.

How they got the tennis elbow in the first place, on the other hand, that's another story, with probably over exertion (during play or other work they do) or poor tech as the star of the story.

RoddickistheMan
10-25-2007, 07:27 PM
Pure drive with and without cortex. aeropro drive without cortex. With cortex is gangster.
________
Montana Marijuana Dispensaries (http://montana.dispensaries.org/)

Redflea
10-25-2007, 07:53 PM
I used the Dunlop M-Fil 200 for months w/no arm issues. Very personal issue, really. While there are tendencies due to racquet/setup combinations, I have friends using all kinds of "bad" racquets with stiff strings w/no problems.

daddy.dirtsurfer
10-25-2007, 08:44 PM
I've used it, and just don't understand how people say this racket causes any pain. To me, it felt as comfortable as hitting with a pillow. Plush. I find it very arm friendly. l believe arm pain is a result of either poor technique or poor fitness.

Can you handle a heavy racquet? Because I handled it with PS Tour 90 which was even-balanced with lead tape at 3 and 9 and hurted TE and wrist in which Redondo Mid is also evenly balanced that didn't hurt my TE and wrist. I'm sure I have the right technique.

kanjii
10-25-2007, 08:50 PM
PDR gave me shoulder problems..probably due to bad technique...if serving correctly, it is deadly. No problems with it on groundstrokes...like it alot. APD with Attraction strings, one hit and I was putting it down...very bad tennis elbow, but used the APDC with PHT strings adn it felt real good. The worse racquet I have ever used and caused massive tennis elbow pains beyond recognition....Kneissl White Star Lendl Pro....can't remember what strings were on them. Adidas Lendl GTX Pro T felt fine and still use it sometimes with no pain.

Schills
10-25-2007, 10:04 PM
Can you handle a heavy racquet? Because I handled it with PS Tour 90 which was even-balanced with lead tape at 3 and 9 and hurted TE and wrist in which Redondo Mid is also evenly balanced that didn't hurt my TE and wrist. I'm sure I have the right technique.

My Yonex 002 Tours come in at 12.8 oz., so I guess I can handle a heavy racket. When I started playing, it was with wood rackets that all weighed more than 13 oz.

I'm actually certain that my technique is far from perfect, but I suspect that I manage to avoid those few bad habits that create tennis elbow. I also lift weights 3 times a week. Whatever the reason. . . which I couldn't pinpoint. . . . I've never had arm pain. I consider myself fortunate.

No Drop Shots
10-26-2007, 04:35 AM
Personally I think that tennis elbow is caused mostly by poor technique along with a combination of strings at too high a tension. It is very individual, depending on strength and fitness and how the racket is held. Whilst I do agree that choice of racket can have an effect, I do not think that it is the primary cause.

ananda
10-26-2007, 05:09 AM
Head Nano Ti S6 (lightweight OS) gave me a TE.

I now use a PS 6.0 95 and no problems. (11pt Head light, a bit over 12 oz), i play 6 times a week, 2 hours daily.

JLyon
10-26-2007, 05:59 AM
The M-Fil 200+ was way stiffer than TW says believe they have it at 63, but on my racket it is 67. Also I love the 200g XL but stiff is 56, so that could be the difference.

bagung
10-26-2007, 06:21 AM
APD, yonex rqs7, prince o3 red, dnx-8 give problems to my TE.....
dnx-10 mid is the one that "friendly" to my TE

chair ump
10-26-2007, 06:31 AM
I really believe that it's not the racquet that is to blame for shoulder/arm problems, but it's the constant switching of racquets that injures the shoulder/arm...Believe it or not, the muscles have a memory and get used to the way a certain racquet feels, and when you introduce something new into the equation it shocks the system. This equals pain.

If we all tried to play more consistently with the same equipment, I venture to say there would be a lot less injuries to report on this board (that we blame on racquets).

Micky
10-26-2007, 06:52 AM
Prince Diablo Mid, gave me wrist, elbow, shoulder and knee trouble. The worst was the knee. As soon as I started playig with Babolat my problems went away...PD+, PD+C, APDC...sweet.

LPShanet
10-26-2007, 11:25 AM
Personally I think that tennis elbow is caused mostly by poor technique along with a combination of strings at too high a tension. It is very individual, depending on strength and fitness and how the racket is held. Whilst I do agree that choice of racket can have an effect, I do not think that it is the primary cause.

Agreed. Or maybe we should just start a list of specific "cars that cause accidents" and "guns that kill people".

volusiano
10-26-2007, 12:01 PM
The gutsandglorytennis website has a link called Tennis Elbow Relief that lists a bunch of non-arm-friendly rackets if you want to check it out.

rosenstar
10-26-2007, 01:29 PM
I really believe that it's not the racquet that is to blame for shoulder/arm problems, but it's the constant switching of racquets that injures the shoulder/arm...Believe it or not, the muscles have a memory and get used to the way a certain racquet feels, and when you introduce something new into the equation it shocks the system. This equals pain.

If we all tried to play more consistently with the same equipment, I venture to say there would be a lot less injuries to report on this board (that we blame on racquets).

I agree. While I don't believe that most TE cases are the result of this, I won't deny that a decent amount are. I think that the majority of TE injuries are caused by poor technique, weak muscles/tendons, or some other motion outside of tennis.

gvanzky
10-27-2007, 04:16 PM
I really believe that it's not the racquet that is to blame for shoulder/arm problems, but it's the constant switching of racquets that injures the shoulder/arm...Believe it or not, the muscles have a memory and get used to the way a certain racquet feels, and when you introduce something new into the equation it shocks the system. This equals pain.

If we all tried to play more consistently with the same equipment, I venture to say there would be a lot less injuries to report on this board (that we blame on racquets).

yes! i agree on what you said that constant switching of racquets cause injuries because of muscle memory. but how do you guy explain that why only to some models. i switch racquets from head heavy to head light or light to heavy or the other way around and did not have any arm problem. and when i thought i bought a racquet that is supposed to be arm friendly with all the specs as most of us agree that are arm friendly like head light, flexible, heavy and even added some additional weight that mimic the racquet that i'm used to, that cost me my arm. you can't deny that some of the racquets have different vibrations on contact with the ball that transfer to the arm. some of those vibrations are harmful that causes arm problems. so it's also means that the racquet is not arm friendly.

gvanzky
10-27-2007, 04:28 PM
I really believe that it's not the racquet that is to blame for shoulder/arm problems, but it's the constant switching of racquets that injures the shoulder/arm...Believe it or not, the muscles have a memory and get used to the way a certain racquet feels, and when you introduce something new into the equation it shocks the system. This equals pain.

If we all tried to play more consistently with the same equipment, I venture to say there would be a lot less injuries to report on this board (that we blame on racquets).

yes! i agree on what you said that constant switching of racquets cause injuries because of muscle memory. but how do you guy explain that why only to some models. i switch racquets from head heavy to head light or light to heavy or the other way around and did not have any arm problem. and when i thought i bought a racquet that is supposed to be arm friendly with all the specs as most of us agree that are arm friendly like head light, flexible, heavy and even added some additional weight that mimic the racquet that i'm used to, that cost me my arm. you can't deny that some of the racquets have different vibrations on contact with the ball that transfer to the arm. some of those vibrations are harmful that causes arm problems. so it's also means that the racquet is not arm friendly.

paulfreda
10-27-2007, 10:35 PM
TE is almost always caused by stiff or light or stiff and light frames with tension too high. JMHO.

rosenstar
11-02-2007, 02:19 PM
TE is almost always caused by stiff or light or stiff and light frames with tension too high. JMHO.

disagree. the frame has absolutely nothing to do with it. it's technique, muscle/tendon strength, and other daily motions that involve the muscles/tendons.

paulfreda
11-03-2007, 01:19 AM
disagree. the frame has absolutely nothing to do with it. it's technique, muscle/tendon strength, and other daily motions that involve the muscles/tendons.

"nothing to do with it" ....... no no ...."absolutely nothing to do with it" ! !
It is NEVER the frame or how it is set up ?

Well now, you must be both a genius and omniscient in addition to being unable to consider ideas other than your own.
And of course you know every personal story of TE and those who made it go away. Your knowledge of human physiology and basic physics seems to be somewhat weak or non existent !

We can let the readers decide for themselves what might be the "truth" for them.

I say drop tension first. If you can not or will not do that then get a less stiff frame and make sure you play with a weight greater than 300 grams, the heavier the better up to 360 grams or so.

OneHander
11-05-2007, 04:46 AM
I have been playing tennis for 34 years, starting with pretty cheap wood rackets and progressing through the different technologies over the years. I have never had tennis elbow but I have always paid very close attention to discipline on technique/form. I now use a Prince Original Graphite mid, which by today's standards would be considered a low technology racket with minimal dampening...I love the racket and the sweetspot feels better than the other rackets/brands I have tried.

So, I do believe that technique is a key factor in injuries along with preparing the body for the activity. So many people just go out to the courts and just start wailing away at the ball. A little training, and I mean traing the muscles that are going to be used in the motion that they are going to be used, would probably prevent many of the injuries you hear about in tennis (tennis elbow, shoulder, wrist, back, hamstring, calf).

l_gonzalez
11-05-2007, 06:05 AM
I don't care what anyone says, a Wilson Hyper Pro Staff 5.0 WILL kill your arm.

I had never had any problems, but almost as soon as i picked up that racquet my arm almost fell apart: back, shoulder, elbow, wrist.

I used Wilson sensation nxt 16 @ 52lbs, and i'm a strong guy with good technique.

I played with Head Prestiges before that and never had any issues.

Forehand Forever
11-05-2007, 01:01 PM
I'm using the PD with cortex right now. I'm thinking about trying out a Hyper Pro Staff 6.1 just because we had some of them at my club. I've got a shoulder injury too that should be better by the end of the month. Is the Hyper Pro Staff 6.1 good or should I not even consider it. I'm only 15 by the way.

drakulie
11-05-2007, 01:40 PM
TE is almost always caused by stiff or light or stiff and light frames with tension too high. JMHO.

TE is almost always caused by bad technique>> not the frame.

rosenstar
11-05-2007, 02:54 PM
"nothing to do with it" ....... no no ...."absolutely nothing to do with it" ! !
It is NEVER the frame or how it is set up ?

Well now, you must be both a genius and omniscient in addition to being unable to consider ideas other than your own.
And of course you know every personal story of TE and those who made it go away. Your knowledge of human physiology and basic physics seems to be somewhat weak or non existent !

We can let the readers decide for themselves what might be the "truth" for them.

I say drop tension first. If you can not or will not do that then get a less stiff frame and make sure you play with a weight greater than 300 grams, the heavier the better up to 360 grams or so.

I don't understand why I can play with any racquet and not suffer TE. It has never bothered me ever, and I play with one of the stiffest frames you can find (PDR). Now almost any person is going to reply to this by saying:

"well, every person/ every case is different, so what works for you might not work for someone else."

and that is perfectly correct. But then one has to wonder, what is so different between me and the other person? If my arm can withstand tennis elbow, then my muscles and tendons must be stronger, right? I'm a 4.0-4.5 level player, so I have decent technique. I work my forearm when I lift, doing a variety of different wrist curls.

I think that is why I have never suffered TE. Because of correct technique and a strong forearm. Now there are people who don't fall into to either these catagories; they work their forearm correctly and use correct technique when playing tennis. however many things in daily life can strain these muscles/tendons. For example, the way you hold a pencil, or type at your computer, everyday things like that, can strain your forearm. this pain can transfer to tennis.

THis is why I believe the gear IS NEVER the cause of tennis elbow.

hyogen
11-05-2007, 03:20 PM
disagree. the frame has absolutely nothing to do with it. it's technique, muscle/tendon strength, and other daily motions that involve the muscles/tendons.

come on... the frame has absolutely a LOT to do with it. it's like clockwork when I get tennis elbow--when I try out a stiffer frame.

I like to think I have ok technique...but obviously not a 4.0-4.5 level.....to some of you, I have bad technique... So if technique is the only thing that causes tennis elbow, why don't I get tennis elbow with a flexy frame, and get tennis elbow with a stiff frame?

drakulie
11-05-2007, 03:30 PM
I have seen a lot of players who after a match or hitting session complain that their wrist, elbow or forearm hurt. In almost every case, they have horrible technique.

I'm not saying that a particular frame won't cause discomfort, however, if the frame were the culprit of TE, then everyone would get it when they use "frame X", which they don't.

People even get TE when they use supposed "arm friendly" frames>>> the culprit>>> bad technique. Again, it is typically bad technique> not the frame.

jmverdugo
11-05-2007, 03:36 PM
come on... the frame has absolutely a LOT to do with it. it's like clockwork when I get tennis elbow--when I try out a stiffer frame.

I like to think I have ok technique...but obviously not a 4.0-4.5 level.....to some of you, I have bad technique... So if technique is the only thing that causes tennis elbow, why don't I get tennis elbow with a flexy frame, and get tennis elbow with a stiff frame?

Because a flexible frame "absorbe" some of the vibrations of mishittings, same with a heavier racket. JMO

rosenstar
11-05-2007, 06:29 PM
come on... the frame has absolutely a LOT to do with it. it's like clockwork when I get tennis elbow--when I try out a stiffer frame.

I like to think I have ok technique...but obviously not a 4.0-4.5 level.....to some of you, I have bad technique... So if technique is the only thing that causes tennis elbow, why don't I get tennis elbow with a flexy frame, and get tennis elbow with a stiff frame?

the muscles and tendons in you're forearm are not strong enough to handle the vibrations transfered by a stiffer frame.

paulfreda
11-06-2007, 03:25 AM
the muscles and tendons in you're forearm are not strong enough to handle the vibrations transfered by a stiffer frame.

Thank you Rosenstar !
You just made my case and buried yours.
A stiff frame will cause TE for sure as it transfers the shock to the arm/the TE tendon.

I am not saying bad technique NEVER has anything to do with it.
But the frame is the major culprit and the tiny tendon near the elbow is the victim.

To answer Drakulie ....
The Pure Drive has been known to be an arm killer for a long time now.

To answer why some people can play with any frame and never get TE ....
This is usually a young person whose body is at its peak of strength.
In fact I cannot think of a single pro who ever had a 'well known' problem with TE.
[I suspect a few have and they changed frames to make it go away]
You could argue that it is because they have good technique.
But my argument [young strong well conditioned body] is just as reasonable.

TE usually hits middle aged or older folks when they are in poor shape and their bodies are on the decline.

jmverdugo
11-06-2007, 03:47 AM
The worst vibrations are the one that are produce as a result of a mishit or hitting late, ideally a flexi frame will help you on those cases but to really prevent this you have to strenght your forearm muscles and to improve your technique and timing.

Forehand Forever
11-06-2007, 06:20 AM
Timing is definitely key. If you're hitting the ball late you're going to put a lot of stress on your elbow. My timings a little late sometimes but I'm trying to work on that to strike a cleaner ball.

rosenstar
11-06-2007, 10:44 AM
Thank you Rosenstar !
You just made my case and buried yours.
A stiff frame will cause TE for sure as it transfers the shock to the arm/the TE tendon.

I am not saying bad technique NEVER has anything to do with it.
But the frame is the major culprit and the tiny tendon near the elbow is the victim.


Changing the frame you use will not stop TE. It is like a cancer patient on pain killers; the medicine will numb the pain, but it won't cure the illness.

Switching racquets has the same effect. While some frames may hide the pain, there is an underlying problem that you are avoiding. Whether it be poor technique or weak muscles/tendons, switching frames will not solve the problem; it will not improve your technique and it will not strengthen your arm; all it will do is make the pain less noticeable.

If you don't address the problem directly, the pain will get more and more noticeable as you age and harder and harder to conceal by switching frames.

paulfreda
11-06-2007, 01:28 PM
Changing the frame you use will not stop TE. It is like a cancer patient on pain killers; the medicine will numb the pain, but it won't cure the illness.
Switching racquets has the same effect

Au Contrare !
There you go with your omniscient act again.
I had TE so bad that I was considering surgery back in 2000.
I had a heavy [12.5oz], flexy frame [RDC 60] so I thought there was nothing else to do. Then I remembered that Mac played at 48 lbs tension and I had not tried that. I lowered my tension to 45 the next day and never had a TE problem again. The tendons probably took 6 months to fully heal but I no longer had to take a week off the courts every month.

drakulie
11-06-2007, 01:33 PM
To answer Drakulie ....
The Pure Drive has been known to be an arm killer for a long time now.

I would venture to say this is because of all the beginners using this frame and swinging wildly with no technique to get the same results Roddick gets.

(see below)

To answer why some people can play with any frame and never get TE ....
This is usually a young person whose body is at its peak of strength.

The players I usually see get TE are the ones described above. Again, they have horrible technique. (PS: They are using all sorts of frames>> not just Pure Drives)

TE usually hits middle aged or older folks when they are in poor shape and their bodies are on the decline.

TE elbow does not discriminate because of age. If you have bad technique, you are more likely to get it.

rosenstar
11-06-2007, 01:45 PM
Au Contrare !
There you go with your omniscient act again.
I had TE so bad that I was considering surgery back in 2000.
I had a heavy [12.5oz], flexy frame [RDC 60] so I thought there was nothing else to do. Then I remembered that Mac played at 48 lbs tension and I had not tried that. I lowered my tension to 45 the next day and never had a TE problem again. The tendons probably took 6 months to fully heal but I no longer had to take a week off the courts every month.

sooooo the problem was that your tendons were not strong enough correct?

rosenstar
11-06-2007, 01:45 PM
I would venture to say this is because of all the beginners using this frame and swinging wildly with no technique to get the same results Roddick gets.

The players I usually see get TE are the ones described above. Again, they have horrible technique. (PS: They are using all sorts of frames>> not just Pure Drives)

TE elbow does not discriminate because of age. If you have bad technique, you are more likely to get it.

100% agree

drakulie
11-06-2007, 01:54 PM
100% agree

Some people just love to blame the frame for all their misery.

Here is a vid of a 60+ year old guy. He is using a >>> Oh my! It can't be! A Pure drive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDc3oblQ89Y

No elbow brace, or other gimiicks>> Just awesome technique. No tennis elbow either. The place I live is full of older guys like this. They use everything from PS85's to Big Bubbas. The ones with bad technique, have TE. The ones that don't >> don't have TE.

bad_call
11-06-2007, 02:04 PM
Some people just love to blame the frame for all their misery.

Here is a vid of a 60+ year old guy. He is using a >>> Oh my! It can't be! A Pure drive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oDc3oblQ89Y

No elbow brace, or other gimiicks>> Just awesome technique. No tennis elbow either. The place I live is full of older guys like this. They use everything from PS85's to Big Bubbas. The ones with bad technique, have TE. The ones that don't >> don't have TE.

however some flexier frames forgive those of us who have good technique most of the time but occasionally get lazy. i am fortunate to play with one of those forgiving frames. :mrgreen: no TE for me even if i get lazy.

drakulie
11-06-2007, 02:08 PM
^^ I actually hit with the C10 pro the other day. The guys from the TWSF chapter were in full force taking pictures. :)

I'm surprised they haven't posted any yet.

Doc Hollidae
11-06-2007, 02:21 PM
Like my compadre Drakulie has stated, stiff rackets such as the Pure Drive and such, accelerate the progression of TE. Normal wear and tear will still take effect, but players with sound technique are less likely to get tennis elbow than players with poor technique.

Why is it that flexible rackets are suggested for TE suffers? Because flexible frames are much more forgiving and lessen the stress as the racket flexes on contact. Every late ball hit puts more and more stress on your tendons, regardless of racket. However, a stiff racket will only exacerbate the stress suffered, because there is no forgiveness or enough flex to compensate for making late contact. The same is true with soft and stiff strings and low and high tensions.

Ever wonder why more recreational players suffer from TE than competitive players? I can assure you Pure Drives are being used in both categories.

bagung
11-06-2007, 02:21 PM
some people are able to handle stiff and harsh racquets...some won't...
it depends on individual's conditions....
my coach have been playing tennis for almost 33 yrs, just recently he got TE due to using HH , stiff racquet with full poly set up...
maybe due to he is getting older , condition has changed plus using "unsuitable racquets and string set up".

rum02
11-06-2007, 02:47 PM
It is a combination of both, clearly. stiff racquets transmit more shock to your arm, your arm may be able to handle this, or it may not. correct technique and a strong arm help greatly to avoid this , but doesn't guarantee immunity from the problem. I would say playing too often (5+ hours a day without time to recover)
would also be a factor.

bagung
11-06-2007, 02:49 PM
yes, i fully agree...
as my coach is playing eight hours a day, 5 days a week...