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legkickbackhand
11-18-2004, 09:46 PM
Yes, Moya lost this match. However, I walked away very impressed by him. Moya has a lot of heart and is a great hustler. he works so hard he practically looks like he's taken a shower out there, he sweats so much. The reason he has to work so hard I think, and this might be obvious, is for the same reason that one of his mentors, Jim Courier, had to work so hard: a very weak backhand. His backhand looks like a push shot. He has very poor mechanics on his two-hander; it looks like he's just pulling across the shot. He seems to keep his arms pretty straight and just swivels and pulls across the ball. His slice backhand is very weak. I beg his coach to work with him and improve his backhand because Moya is a special player with a lot of heart. I know he's getting older, but I want him to stick around. He'll have a hard time doing that if he doesn't improve that backhand. Well, he'll stick around, but he'll have trouble winning the majors that he obviously has the talent to win (French, Australian, U.S. Open). I particularly admire the heart he shows at Wimbledon. In conclusion, I love Federer, but during this match I found myself rooting for Moya. Moya will be added to my signature as a favorite player.

Vlad
11-18-2004, 10:02 PM
His backhand always been his biggest weakness and I think it might be too late to change anything. He just concentrates on his forehand most of the time and just doesn't play backhand that often. I doubt that he will change it. Another thing about Moya and why he is palying poorly against top players is the same as Safin's.. he is not tough enough mentally. He had many many chances and just wasted it compeltely. Safin did the same thing with Roddick today. Both matches were close but Roddick and Fed won bigger points.

I think Moya's backhand can be the weakest in the top 20...

bcaz
11-18-2004, 10:14 PM
Nice effort, but just couldn't get it done. BTW, what ever happened to young PureCarlosMoyaDrive, or whatever he called himself? Lost interest? Lost his ISP account? Banned? Too busy playing tennis? Studying?

Max G.
11-18-2004, 10:32 PM
Well, his last post was over a month ago... I assume he's just busy. Can't be sure, but seems like a reasonable assumption, given that it's the school year, after all.

Jayzzz
11-18-2004, 10:35 PM
I've noticed only Moya gives it all during certain times, same with Fed.. The first set I didn't give two sh*ts.. probably because he felt like he had no chance. In the 2nd set Federer got extremely lazy and inconsistent with his strokes and this gave Moya a spark to help him rise to dominate the 2nd set. Third set Federer realized he was jeoprodizing the match and stepped it up a notch.

Bottom line, both players were lazy at times and didn't give 100%, the way Roddick and Hewitt do every single point. Yes, I believe Federer is the most talented player on the planet but he isn't as hungry as say Federer or Hewitt. Moya on the other hand has moments of brillance, but does not have the confidence or consistent determination.

!Tym
11-18-2004, 10:40 PM
Moya's good to great at everything except mental toughness and his backhand. His forehand is possibly the best in the game, because it's tough to read, has great margin and spin, with great placement and power. However, his real problem is that he has to run around so much to hit his forehand making him predictable I feel. His rally backhand isn't bad and he is quite an intuitive feel for slicing the ball relative to most two-handers, but he just can't really finish a point with his backhand. He never really steps in and tries to crush it off that side. Truthfully, his backhand isn't much better than Berasategui's, except that Moya can slice as well. Berasategui's backhand actually wasn't that bad (aside from being really ugly), it was just that he couldn't create any offense with it whatsoever. You have to be able to do that at the highest level to keep your opponents honest I feel.

Luke Jenson said it best when Moya met Ferrero in the finals of a clay masters series event a few years ago. Moya put up a respectable fight, but Ferrero was clearly in control. He said the difference between these two on clay is that Moya can only crush the ball with his forehand, whereas Ferrero can bash it with authority off both sides. And, actually I agreed with that assessment whole-heartedly.

On faster surfaces though, I think Moya has the greater potential because he has a bigger serve and volleys and slices much better.

With that said, it's only potential. I think Ferrero at his best is more worrisome to other top players on faster surfaces, because he simply is mentally tougher. As long as Ferrero's not having a really off day (in which case he pouts and tanks like a little baby), he's VERY tenacious and mentally tough in my opinion.

Moya, how should I say, is a bit of a choker on pivotal points...always has been. This is why his record isn't so hot against top players where the competition is stiffer. In such matchups, stepping up on the pivotal points is the difference between winning and losing consistently in my opinion.

To me, even though Moya's always had a great game on paper, I never felt comfortable betting on him when it really mattered most. He's consistently proven throughout his career that he shrivels up on key points.

To me, he's kind of like the Amelie Mauresmo of the men's tour.

yee
11-19-2004, 12:37 AM
Bottom line, both players were lazy at times and didn't give 100%, the way Roddick and Hewitt do every single point. Yes, I believe Federer is the most talented player on the planet but he isn't as hungry as say Federer or Hewitt. Moya on the other hand has moments of brillance, but does not have the confidence or consistent determination.

Federer had his previous match till close to 2am in the morning and today's match won't affect a thing for his qualification, but he still managed a win and you using this match to conclude he's lazy and not determined enough.

I bet you never watched Roddick's matches when he got really lazy and tanked matches? He had, more than once.

Exci
11-19-2004, 02:45 AM
Bottom line, both players were lazy at times and didn't give 100%, the way Roddick and Hewitt do every single point. Yes, I believe Federer is the most talented player on the planet but he isn't as hungry as say Federer or Hewitt. Moya on the other hand has moments of brillance, but does not have the confidence or consistent determination.

Federer had his previous match till close to 2am in the morning and today's match won't affect a thing for his qualification, but he still managed a win and you using this match to conclude he's lazy and not determined enough.

I bet you never watched Roddick's matches when he got really lazy and tanked matches? He had, more than once.

It won't affect his qualification, but have you ever looked at the price money? Being an undefeated winner gives you, I believe, 1.5 million dollars instead of 700.000 dollars. Maybe even on top of that 700.000. Anyway, it's a lot of money, even for a guy like Federer.

Him risking to lose a match and thus to lose either 1.5 million dollars or 800.000 dollars (that's more than being a defeated champion!) is blatently lazy. He just didn't see Moya coming and probably wanted to save his body for the finals, but Moya didn't feel like being walked over last night.. :roll:

yee
11-19-2004, 03:16 AM
Him risking to lose a match and thus to lose either 1.5 million dollars or 800.000 dollars (that's more than being a defeated champion!) is blatently lazy. He just didn't see Moya coming and probably wanted to save his body for the finals, but Moya didn't feel like being walked over last night.. :roll:

So did he give up and lose at the end or instead he cleaned up and managed a win against Moya who obviously had even more motivation to win this match?

Honestly can you really call him lazy just because he went off a bit for a match that didn't matter as much to him compare to his opponent? I think that's a bit harsh.

Marius_Hancu
11-19-2004, 03:29 AM
His forehand is possibly the best in the game, because it's tough to read, has great margin and spin, with great placement and power.

As long as Ferrero's not having a really off day (in which case he pouts and tanks like a little baby), he's VERY tenacious and mentally tough in my opinion.

I saw both of them at Montreal TMS one year ago, training and playing, from several yards.

Moya's FH is the loudest sonic boom you'll hear these days on a tennis court.

As for Ferrero, I was behind him, 1st row in the baseline seats during his loss to Kucera, and he was complaining and pouting all the time like a child indeed. I was 2 seats from his coach and posse and there was constant dialogue, very prob a lot of coaching in Spanish. He hasn't shown mental strength in quite a while.

rhubarb
11-19-2004, 03:37 AM
A round robin win is worth $120K US, so there's not a lot of difference in prize money for an undefeated winner ($1.52K) compared with a champion who was defeated once in the group stage ($1.4M). I really doubt that's a big deal to Federer who has won $5M already this year.

From what I gather reading his interview, Roger found it difficult to get motivated because he was already through to the semis, whilst Carlos needed the win to make it (though of course Gaudio can still help him), and he quite likes Moya. It's a bit different from his final rr match last year when he was still chasing number 2, and Ferrero had been already eliminated.

I don't think Roger is lazy at all, but he can lose motivation and focus sometimes. He just hasn't done it much this year. Nevertheless, he still beat Moya, didn't he?

BiGGieStuFF
11-19-2004, 05:55 AM
90K is a lot any way you slice it. I'm sure he would like that extra bonus. He's out there playing that 3rd match anyway, might as well win it. I think more or less he was trying new things in the match as he's always looking to improve his game.

@wright
11-19-2004, 06:17 AM
I think we can all agree that Fed didn't play too well (for him) against Moya, who played very well. That is the best I've seen Moya play in quite awhile, but Fed still took it. That sums it up.

Rickson
11-19-2004, 07:27 AM
Moya's serve and forehand were on, but in the end, he came up short. I also wish Moya and Roddick for that matter, could improve their backhands significantly because the match could have had a different outcome if Moya didn't run around that backhand side so much. Federer might run around his backhand at times too, but when Federer does it, he doesn't seem like he absolutely depends on the run around forehand, it's more like an option to him. Moya on the other hand, seems like he depends on the run around the backhand side because the backhand is so uncomfortable for him.

@wright
11-19-2004, 07:30 AM
Did anyone see Federer's perfectly executed jumping leg kick two handed backhand last night after a point was over? I wonder if he practices that shot for fun...

Peter Samprer
11-19-2004, 07:31 AM
Moya has a lot of heart and is a great hustler

http://www.clublakers.com/forums/images/smiles/man10.gifhttp://www.clublakers.com/forums/images/smiles/man10.gifhttp://www.clublakers.com/forums/images/smiles/man10.gif

Brettolius
11-19-2004, 09:41 AM
yeah, i did see that 2 handed jumping backhand. dude is smooth as panties at anything regarding tennis!!

norcal
11-19-2004, 10:05 AM
90K is a lot any way you slice it. I'm sure he would like that extra bonus. He's out there playing that 3rd match anyway, might as well win it. I think more or less he was trying new things in the match as he's always looking to improve his game. You see that rock on Mirka's hand? Roger needs that 90K to make the monthly payment!

perfmode
11-19-2004, 12:54 PM
Federer looks lazy because he's relaxed. He doesn't need to grunt and grimace to hit a winner. He does it with ease and makes it look easy. That doesn't mean he's lazy.

Rickson
11-19-2004, 01:19 PM
Did anyone see Federer's perfectly executed jumping leg kick two handed backhand last night after a point was over? I wonder if he practices that shot for fun...
A 2hbh is an easy stroke for Federer. Federer never uses it because his 1 hander is so effective, but I don't think there's a shot Federer can't master in tennis. More proof that the 1 hander is the superior backhand.

perfmode
11-19-2004, 01:20 PM
Federer could probably make the Top 100 playing left handed.

Rickson
11-19-2004, 01:21 PM
Federer could probably make the Top 100 playing left handed.Let's not go that far. Federer still has to serve you know.