PDA

View Full Version : Where does Jen Jen rank all time?


capriatifanatic
11-24-2007, 07:09 AM
Where does the great Jennifer Capriati rank all time? She is obviously the greatest player of her generation ahead of Justine Henin, both Williams, Davenport, and the rest, but where does she rank in history?

Joeyg
11-24-2007, 08:15 AM
Best of her generation? Not even top 5 of her generation. Seles, Graf, Sanchez-Vicario, Venus and Serena, Henin, Davenport, Hingis and arguably Sharapova. Granted, Jennifer was a gifted ball striker. Her movement and court strategy left lots to be desired.

capriatifanatic
11-24-2007, 08:31 AM
Best of her generation? Not even top 5 of her generation. Seles, Graf, Sanchez-Vicario, Venus and Serena, Henin, Davenport, Hingis and arguably Sharapova. Granted, Jennifer was a gifted ball striker. Her movement and court strategy left lots to be desired.

Seles and Graf are not her generation, they are the one before that. Sanchez is a boring moonballer and not in Jennifer's league, if she played in the power era Jennifer did in her comeback she would be lucky to win 1 slam, a single French Open maybe. Venus and Serena never had the bad luck in some of those big matches Jennifer did. Henin is a midget, Jennifer just overpowers her. Davenport is slow as a dump truck around court. Sharapova is a boring one-dimensional ball basher. Hingis is another midget who Jennifer overpowers.

You are wrong on Jennifer's movement, she was a great mover, one of the best, along with a great ball striker. Gifted ball striker with garbage movement would be Davenport, who was about 40% as fast covering court as Jennifer and others and relied only on power.

ohlori
11-24-2007, 08:37 AM
Best of her generation? Not even top 5 of her generation. Seles, Graf, Sanchez-Vicario, Venus and Serena, Henin, Davenport, Hingis and arguably Sharapova. Granted, Jennifer was a gifted ball striker. Her movement and court strategy left lots to be desired.

She was very quick though.

laurie
11-24-2007, 01:29 PM
I'm a very big fan of Jennifer Capriati. I love her play and as a personality. I think she is a beautiful person.

But perhaps this is a wind up thread. For starters Capriati played Seles in the 1991 US Open semifinal when Jennifer was 16 annd Monica was 17. They played eachother in the 1990 French Open. So how the hell are they different generations? That one is not even worth debating.

Also, considering Justine Henin turned pro around 1999, again - that's what you call a different generation. Jennifer did marvellously well to get her career back on track around 1998 to eventually win those 2 slams in 2001 and the Aussie Open in 2002. I'm just sorry that she, Monica and Mary Pierce are not able to retire with dignity (ie not injured) Arantxa is already in the Hall of Fame.

As for where she ranks, well around the same level as Mary Pierce, Jana Novotna and Conchita Martinez. Conchita has one slam but a career like Chang, around 35 tournament wins and many Fed cup triumphs - Jenny is definitely one for the Hall of Fame. Davenport too has 3 slams but has over 50 tournament wins in total, where Jenny has around 15 tournament wins so that's a big difference.

Jack the Hack
11-24-2007, 02:02 PM
I'm a very big fan of Jennifer Capriati. I love her play and as a personality. I think she is a beautiful person.

But perhaps this is a wind up thread. For starters Capriati played Seles in the 1991 US Open semifinal when Jennifer was 16 annd Monica was 17. They played eachother in the 1990 French Open. So how the hell are they different generations? That one is not even worth debating.

Also, considering Justine Henin turned pro around 1999, again - that's what you call a different generation. Jennifer did marvellously well to get her career back on track around 1998 to eventually win those 2 slams in 2001 and the Aussie Open in 2002. I'm just sorry that she, Monica and Mary Pierce are not able to retire with dignity (ie not injured) Arantxa is already in the Hall of Fame.

As for where she ranks, well around the same level as Mary Pierce, Jana Novotna and Conchita Martinez. Conchita has one slam but a career like Chang, around 35 tournament wins and many Fed cup triumphs - Jenny is definitely one for the Hall of Fame. Davenport too has 3 slams but has over 50 tournament wins in total, where Jenny has around 15 tournament wins so that's a big difference.

laurie, you are completely correct on all accords. Good post!

MEAC_ALLAMERICAN
11-24-2007, 02:07 PM
Where does the great Jennifer Capriati rank all time? She is obviously the greatest player of her generation ahead of Justine Henin, both Williams, Davenport, and the rest, but where does she rank in history?


Judging by such a deluded statement you’re trolling for some type of validity to a troubled career. I understand being a fan, but being able to look at things objectively, and not be misled is plain crazy. Jennifer won a total of 14 career titles, including 3 grand slams, 1 Olympic gold medal. I would rank her maybe in the top 20, and for me that’s a stretch.

Jennifer was a good mover, and struck the ball really hard and well for a 5’7” player. Lindsay Davenport has never been one of the best movers at almost 6’3”, but in my opinion she is the best ball striker, I have ever seen. For some reason Capriati matched better against Serena Williams, but she never beat Venus. Even though she has beaten Henin twice, the current player would toy with beer belly like a yo-yo.

Head-to-Head:

Davenport: 3-9.
Henin: 2-5.
Hingis: 4-5.
Serena: 7-10.
Venus: 0-4.
Graf: 1-10
Seles: 5-9

Maybe in your eyes she is the best of all times, but on earth she is just another good player that never reached her full potential.

friedalo1
11-24-2007, 04:14 PM
best women tennis player to go to drug rehab.

Kirkstorm
11-24-2007, 04:21 PM
Actually, she is deceptively agile for her size. Perhaps people questions her mobility because she doesn't frequent the net that often. That is, 'cause she is a baseliner in the first place.

As for the questions, Seles & Davenport seems to be in her age-group. Achievement-wise, she ranks below both players (though she moves btter & hits as hard as them) & also ranked below Graf, Arantxa, Hingis & current champions Henin, Serena & Venus slam-wise.

But underachieving she may be, 3 Slams, a # 1 ranking & a gold Olympic medal are not bad at all. (Many players would kill to get one of these. Lol.) Plus the fans she brought to the game & the fairy-tale cameback she made will be her marks as a top player.

lambielspins
11-24-2007, 04:27 PM
As for the questions, Seles & Davenport seems to be in her age-group. Achievement-wise, she ranks below both players (though she moves btter & hits as hard as them)

Seles actually moved quite well herself in her prime. When you think of her being much slower moving then Capriati you probably think of her in the early 2000s, but I pre-stabbing Monica may have moved just as well as Jennifer. Davenport has a much stronger serve then Jennifer ever had to go with the excellent return of serve and overpowering groundstrokes.

theace21
11-24-2007, 05:35 PM
best women tennis player to go to drug rehab.

What if the Hingis rumors are true...

A.J. Sim
11-24-2007, 06:28 PM
I'm a big fan of Capriati having seen her later matches when she won her Slams and had that great match with Henin and the Open (too young to have seen her eariler ones against Navratilova, Seles, or Graf)

Capriati is/was if you want to consider her permanently retired, one of the best ball strikers and hit the ball consistently hard off both wings. She was also a deceptively good mover on the court.

That being said, I believe that she will ultimately be remembered as a talented player who did not quite fulfill her potential. 3 slams and a gold medal is certainly not something to be ashamed of, but if she hadn't had the shoplifting incident, drug problems, or burnout, who knows how many she could have won. Those events made for great drama and courageous comebacks, but don't really contribute to sustained excellence over a long period of time (Evert, Navratilova, Graf).

I hope that she can still comeback, because outside of the Williams sisters, American women's tennis is not looking too good.

Steve132
11-24-2007, 07:58 PM
She was certainly the best 14 year old player I have ever seen. When I saw her classic U.S. Open semi-final in 1991 against Monica Seles I believed that theirs would be the rivalry of the decade. Of course things did not turn out that way - due to the Seles stabbing and Jennifer losing her sense of direction in the mid- 90's.

lambielspins
11-24-2007, 08:08 PM
She was certainly the best 14 year old player I have ever seen. When I saw her classic U.S. Open semi-final in 1991 against Monica Seles I believed that theirs would be the rivalry of the decade. Of course things did not turn out that way - due to the Seles stabbing and Jennifer losing her sense of direction in the mid- 90's.

I think her career might have been very different had she won that match. I think that took alot out of her. Watching her in 92 and 93 she stayed a top 7 or so player (barely) and a contender, but she didnt really advance from there. Her game did not advance the next 2 years from that point I felt, and her success vs Seles, Graf, Sabatini, Sanchez Vicario, aging Navratilova, did not really advance any the next 2 years, in fact regressed if anything (although she did get her only ever win over Graf at the Olympics next year). I think a win there might have been what propelled her forward, particularly if she had beaten Navratilova in the final, which I think she would have since she would have been riding a wave of confidence not only from wins over Sabatini and Seles at that U.S Open, but a tremendous summer, and also because Martina actually played a sort of sluggish final even considering her abilities at the time, just not her day.

On another note I think the incredible 2003 U.S Open semifinal loss to Henin may have shortened her 2nd career. I think that really took alot out of her, she had already seen the Williams bump her down after winning those 3 slams, then Henin and Clijsters coming up and starting to pass her, a win there would have been huge for her motivation and drive going forward, not to mention her self belief vs those women I mentioned. Losing there I think deflated her big time, especialy after what had also happened there 11 years later. After that I dont get the impression she payed the same attention to fitness, training, practicing, as she had 2001-2003 period and that led to some of her injuries like the chronic shoulder one that likely ended her career.

Just my perspective on things though.

Wuornos
11-25-2007, 02:51 AM
Personally I would rank her 16th best women's singles player of the open era.

Compared with the other women who have won 3 majors in the open era, I would put her ahead of Virginia Wade but lower than Lindsay Davenport.

I can't think of any players with more than 3 majors that I would rate lower than Jennifer but I would put Gabriela Sabatini above her who only won one major but who made 18 major semif finals compared with Jennifer's 13.

Regards

Tim

JW10S
11-25-2007, 02:56 PM
I would not rate her in the top 25 of all time...

bluetrain4
11-25-2007, 07:12 PM
J Cap is a hall of famer, but overall she is between 15 and 25 all time. She has a compelling story, and it's great that the righted the ship and fulfilled her potential with 3 Slams (and competitive at quite a few more). The Pierce, Martinez, Novatna range is a good placement as laurie points out. Jennifer won more slams than these other 3, so put her above them if you like, but overall they are fairly similar. Davenport is miles ahead even though their Slam total is the same.

She was a great addition to the scene when she got on track and I enjoyed watching her play.

Tennis-Chris
11-25-2007, 07:15 PM
Capriati was really good but she wasn't great. I remember her wheels came off at one point and her return to tennis was impressive. She was fun to watch, possessed excellent shot making but she is not in the top 5 all time.:mrgreen:

boredone3456
11-25-2007, 07:48 PM
I find it funny that you refer to henin as a midget and say capriati can power right through her...and yet in that US Open semi Capriati couldn't seem to finish the "midget" off....and henin the next day went out and won the tournament, sorry but if capriati could power through henin, than that match should not have lasted 3 hours with henin winning. I like capriati also, but I am not gonna sit here and say she was the best of her generation when she clearly was not. henin and both the williams have more majors than her, and while she could go toe to toe with them, more often than not she lost to them.

CEvertFan
11-26-2007, 06:18 AM
Capriati's career is an interesting one - teenage phenom, burn out and drug use and then rededicating herself to tennis and finally gaining the #1 ranking and winning 3 Grand Slam titles. However, I don't think she was the best player of her generation nor is she a top 20 all time player. I enjoyed watching Jennifer play and admired her for turning her life around and doing something with her career but the fact is that when history looks at Capriati the term 'unfulfilled potential' will be used to describe her because she wasted too many of her prime years.

Jennifer had a good game, was powerful and an above average underrated mover (but only when she worked really hard at her fitness) and had excellent groundstrokes but I wouldn't say that she overpowered other players as much as say Davenport or the Williams sisters have. She did indeed have some trouble against the 'smaller' players like Henin and even against Hingis, especially during her second AO win, and if Hingis hadn't started to wilt during the second set because of the extreme heat that day, Jennifer might only have 2 majors instead of 3. Incidentally that match stands out as the best that Hingis has ever handled pure power during her career that I ever saw. Capriati also had her share of trouble with Henin, losing 7-6 in the third set in the 2003 US Open semis, and ironically she also lost 7-6 in the third set to Seles in the 1991 US Open semis, which IMO really disheartened Capriati because after that loss she was never the same player and you could see that the sheer joy for playng tennis she showed as an exuberant teenager was gone. I would definitely say that those two losses in particular were her two most heartbreaking and took an awful lot out of her emotionally and mentally and were partially the cause of her career path taking a turn for the worse after each of those losses. As for the Williams sisters, she played them close for a while but they got the better of her more often than not.

Her records vs her peers are as follows:

vs V. Williams 0-4
vs S. Williams 7-10
vs Henin 2-5
vs Clijsters 3-3
vs Hingis 4-5
vs Davenport 3-9
vs Graf 1-10
vs Seles 5-9
vs Sabatini 5-11
vs Novotna 0-4
vs Sanchez-Vicario 4-6

She doesn't have a winning record over any of those players, which is telling.

bluetrain4
11-26-2007, 01:53 PM
The thing I'll always remember about Jennifer is that 1991 or 1992 US Open semi vs. Seles. Big, precise, power tennis at its finest. That match ushered in the "Big Babe" (as Carillo likes to say) tennis era that we've seen progress through to today with obvious exceptions (Hingis in the mid 90s, Novatna, Mauresmo, Henin). Too bad, it went from big, precise, power, to often sloppy, inconsistent power.

dunlopfan
12-28-2007, 08:03 PM
Capriati was far from the best womens tennis player. Having said that, she wasn't such a bad player either. She is one of the players that I admire because of all of the things that she went through in her life during her tennis career to this point. I believe that she will make another comeback, but it will be shorter lived than Hingis' comeback.

As for alltime best...she would probably rank around 15.

crazylevity
01-06-2008, 09:16 AM
Where does the great Jennifer Capriati rank all time? She is obviously the greatest player of her generation ahead of Justine Henin, both Williams, Davenport, and the rest, but where does she rank in history?

She has less slams, titles, and a losing head to head record against all those players you mention. How is she "obviously ahead" of them? Please take off those tinted glasses.

2 Cent
01-06-2008, 10:32 PM
i love her. but she's somewhere out of the top 5. she's possibly top 10.

Vermillion
01-06-2008, 10:41 PM
LOL @ the poll results.

capriatifanatic
01-02-2009, 11:10 PM
So nice to see 2 out of people who realize Capriati is atleast a top 5 women player in history.

Warriorroger
01-03-2009, 03:33 AM
So nice to see 2 out of people who realize Capriati is atleast a top 5 women player in history.

At least top five? On what grounds?

Gorecki
01-03-2009, 04:26 AM
wrong thread

lambielspins
01-03-2009, 02:41 PM
ROTFL at the 4 people who voted for anything other than outside the top 5 all time.