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Trinity
11-30-2007, 12:25 PM
Which is / was the most powerful or successful empire? History is no barrier - make your choice, be it Roman Empire, British Empire, Ancient Greece, or the current US Empire.

I'm biased and am going to go for the British Empire...

Andres
11-30-2007, 12:33 PM
Egypt and Babilonia. Roman is up there too, but I'll go with Egypt, and Babilonia as a close 2nd.

Shabazza
11-30-2007, 12:36 PM
In termes of longevity it's Egypt and China.

Jonnyf
11-30-2007, 12:36 PM
RULE BRITANIA! Obviously the British empire, think of the size of us (Britain) and then think of the % of the world under British rule.Staggering

drakulie
11-30-2007, 12:37 PM
The Galactic Empire! The Emperor with Darth Vader on his side ruled with an iron fist!

Trinity
11-30-2007, 12:44 PM
The Galactic Empire! The Emperor with Darth Vader on his side ruled with an iron fist!

I wondered how many posts it woud be before someone mentioned that. Still, can't argue with it :)

Trinity
11-30-2007, 12:47 PM
In termes of longevity it's Egypt and China.

Are you sure? The Egyptian empire didn't have nearly the sheer grip on the world that the British did.

tricky
11-30-2007, 01:02 PM
I wondered how many posts it woud be before someone mentioned that. Still, can't argue with it

What about the Borg? You will be assimilated, recognize!!

Trinity
11-30-2007, 01:09 PM
What about the Borg? You will be assimilated, recognize!!

Hey, the Borg couldn't even hold onto Jean-Luc for more than a few hours :)

Shabazza
11-30-2007, 02:07 PM
Are you sure? The Egyptian empire didn't have nearly the sheer grip on the world that the British did.
They did in their part of the world (given that the known world was merely 1/3 as big is it is now).

My point of longevity stands, though. 2000 and nearly 3000 years respectively of unchallenged dominance during their time will never happen again.

You can't compare ancient empires with industrial empires anyway. 3 2/3 continents weren't even discovered back then.

10sfreak
11-30-2007, 02:21 PM
I'd have to go with the British Empire. Not only did Britain rule an empire many times her size, but didn't herself crumble when her empire crumbled. Plus, the British Empire produced the Greatest Nation the world has ever known - The United States of America!

RoddickAce
11-30-2007, 02:23 PM
The holy roman empire, by Barbarossa. The ATP empire, by Federer...

forzainter
11-30-2007, 02:31 PM
What exactly is the American empire? USA, Iraq, ect?

tricky
11-30-2007, 02:58 PM
Biggest empire goes to the Mongol Empire. Best empire goes to the Klingons . . .

richw76
11-30-2007, 03:06 PM
RULE BRITANIA! Obviously the British empire, think of the size of us (Britain) and then think of the % of the world under British rule.Staggering

I'll Say the Romans/British/US/BORG Because all 4 of those cultures were/are infectious. They conquer with swords then occupy with culture. I mean back in the day it was cool to be roman. You could take nice baths, drink wine and be on a winning team. It's hard to deny the impact of British imperialism, and culture. Just look at all the countries that play cricket ;-)

The US/Western culture we have it perfected we don't even have to use the sword most of the time. We have MTV, Baywatch, and CocaCola. The world doesn't have a chance. Who cares about borders when every country basically looks, and act the same.

One world government is coming baby. Can you say Euro. Or international banking consolidation.

kevhen
11-30-2007, 03:17 PM
British Empire spread English to most of the world during industrial revolution.

American empire continued what British empire started and took us into technological information age.

Chinese empire has lasted the longest thanks to physical mountain and ocean barriers and a traditional culture.

Roman empire was rather impressive for it's time and brought us into a more modern age.

Hard to say which one wins but English is spoken language of the business world but Chinese are most populous and may eventually win this war of empires as they buy up America while we spend lavishly.

goober
11-30-2007, 03:20 PM
They did in their part of the world (given that the known world was merely 1/3 as big is it is now).

My point of longevity stands, though. 2000 and nearly 3000 years respectively of unchallenged dominance during their time will never happen again.

.

Well if you are using longevity as your criteria- Imperial China goes back 5,000 years and lasted until the early 20th century.

richw76
11-30-2007, 03:26 PM
British Empire spread English to most of the world during industrial revolution.

American empire continued what British empire started and took us into technological information age.

Chinese empire has lasted the longest thanks to physical mountain and ocean barriers and a traditional culture.

Roman empire was rather impressive for it's time and brought us into a more modern age.

Hard to say which one wins but English is spoken language of the business world but Chinese are most populous and may eventually win this war of empires as they buy up America while we spend lavishly.

If we are still around I GUARANTEE Chinese... Mandarin ;-) will be the dominant language. The culture will be some mix of east/west. Hope I'm still around it's going to be interesting.

lethalfang
11-30-2007, 03:28 PM
It's a close call between Roman Empire and the British Empire.

Both have achieved a level of technology and/or civil order way ahead of their rivals, and hence dominated the known world at their times.

Especially the British, who had guns, cannons, and blue water ships, when most of the worlds were fighting with sticks and stones.

The Greeks were also very advanced, but they were never united for a long period of time because not one Greek city-state could dominate Greece.

lethalfang
11-30-2007, 03:32 PM
What exactly is the American empire? USA, Iraq, ect?

Going from merely a collection of 13 puny colonies to "sea to shining sea," plus Hawaii and Guam, was an imperial expansion.

richw76
11-30-2007, 03:46 PM
Going from merely a collection of 13 puny colonies to "sea to shining sea," plus Hawaii and Guam, was an imperial expansion.

Manifest destiny Baby! I think people just don't like the word empire.

Feña14
11-30-2007, 04:04 PM
Good old Britain of course! :]

GeorgeLucas
11-30-2007, 05:28 PM
The Byzantine empire :o

soyizgood
11-30-2007, 05:42 PM
Byzantine Empire lasted over 1000 years. It was a very open-minded, educated, wealthy, militarily disciplined empire at its peak. It actually got WEALTHIER after losing territory to Mohammed's followers. It kept the seas free of pirates, trade blossomed throughout Europe and the Middle East, and it helped keep Islam from spreading into Europe, while influencing the Slavs to convert to Christianity.

soyizgood
11-30-2007, 05:44 PM
What exactly is the American empire? USA, Iraq, ect?

Just wait until America gobbles up Mexico and Canada. That will address a large part of the illegal immigration problem....HAHAHA

lethalfang
11-30-2007, 06:02 PM
Byzantine Empire lasted over 1000 years. It was a very open-minded, educated, wealthy, militarily disciplined empire at its peak. It actually got WEALTHIER after losing territory to Mohammed's followers. It kept the seas free of pirates, trade blossomed throughout Europe and the Middle East, and it helped keep Islam from spreading into Europe, while influencing the Slavs to convert to Christianity.

Byzantine is Eastern Roman Empire. They're Romans.

OrangeOne
11-30-2007, 06:06 PM
Richard Ings was a great one in the early 1990s, seemed very fair to all players, certainly at the Australian Open anyways.

:)

jmsx521
11-30-2007, 06:10 PM
Egypt and Babilonia. Roman is up there too, but I'll go with Egypt, and Babilonia as a close 2nd.It's got to be Babylonia.... Look how many players use their product nowadays!

Vision84
11-30-2007, 08:19 PM
Surprised I am the first to mention the Ottoman Empire. They were very impressive and controlled a vast amount of land for a good deal of time.

I am a history major but I am only particularly familiar with Europe so I would have to go with either the Roman Empire or the British Empire. The British Empire is particularly impressive as Britian is so small and they managed to have the largest Empire from what I know and at it's peak was something like 25% of the earth's surface.

jmsx521
11-30-2007, 08:24 PM
What about The Corporate Empire? I think that one is the biggest & most powerful!

tricky
11-30-2007, 08:39 PM
World's largest empires:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World's_largest_empires

Of note is the last list. The world's richest empires.

AM28143
11-30-2007, 08:53 PM
Roman or British Empire, take your pick.

ShiroRm
11-30-2007, 09:43 PM
I'm fascinated by the longevity of Chinese empire.
But it seems to me Roman empire has had far more influence on the culture of many countries, starting from essential aspects like language (even northen europe ones) and laws

dora_75
11-30-2007, 10:19 PM
I'm fascinated by the longevity of Chinese empire.
But it seems to me Roman empire has had far more influence on the culture of many countries, starting from essential aspects like language (even northen europe ones) and laws

Romans copied everything from the Greeks then change the philosophy that permeated even in todays superpowers: teaching others what truly is to be civilized like is their duty or something (rather then truthfully declaring we need your resources and we don't give a f%^k about you).

The only latin languages are french, spanish, portughese, romanian, italian, romansh (romansh is not an offical language I think). Look at the slavs I think it had much more influence in language.

Ross K
11-30-2007, 10:26 PM
From the ancient world, the Egyptians. From the modern, the British. Debate closed!

ShiroRm
11-30-2007, 10:51 PM
Romans copied everything from the Greeks then change the philosophy that permeated even in todays superpowers: teaching others what truly is to be civilized like is their duty or something (rather then truthfully declaring we need your resources and we don't give a f%^k about you).

The only latin languages are french, spanish, portughese, romanian, italian, romansh (romansh is not an offical language I think). Look at the slavs I think it had much more influence in language.

English has more latin originated words that that it could seem. For example, do you know the word "forum"? ;-)

If Romans copied all from greeks, why did they end up with something new?
They managed to integrate conquered people using laws and citizenship, so that even a spanish, african or german man could become emperor: it wasn't a mere steal of resources. A part from roads, acqueducts, sewers and thermal baths, that was true civilization.
That wasn't generally possible in other empires

malakas
12-01-2007, 12:07 AM
Byzantine is Eastern Roman Empire. They're Romans.

not exactly.Byzantine Empire was the succesor of the old Roman Empire-and the better half that was left.Byzantines called of course themselves all till 1453 Romans but Byzantine Empire is distinct from the old Roman one.But of course if you take them as one,then they are imo the better.

heh do you know who the succesor of the Byzantine Empire is?;p

malakas
12-01-2007, 12:10 AM
English has more latin originated words that that it could seem. For example, do you know the word "forum"? ;-)

If Romans copied all from greeks, why did they end up with something new?
They managed to integrate conquered people using laws and citizenship, so that even a spanish, african or german man could become emperor: it wasn't a mere steal of resources. A part from roads, acqueducts, sewers and thermal baths, that was true civilization.
That wasn't generally possible in other empires

English is the more latinised germanic language,and French the most germanisied latin one.

We call that a double-edge domination.Romans were dominated culturally and Greeks physically.I think also a Latin poet said that..?

lethalfang
12-01-2007, 12:17 AM
not exactly.Byzantine Empire was the succesor of the old Roman Empire-and the better half that was left.Byzantines called of course themselves all till 1453 Romans but Byzantine Empire is distinct from the old Roman one.But of course if you take them as one,then they are imo the better.

heh do you know who the succesor of the Byzantine Empire is?;p

Isn't Romania what's left of the Byzantine ? I think that's what I remembered.
In my opinion, the "old" Roman Empire, the one between Caesar and Constantine, is much more powerful than the Byzantine.

malakas
12-01-2007, 12:44 AM
Isn't Romania what's left of the Byzantine ? I think that's what I remembered.
In my opinion, the "old" Roman Empire, the one between Caesar and Constantine, is much more powerful than the Byzantine.

romania?ah no.After the Byzantine Empire was conquered and in its ashes the Ottoman was established,the legal and "historic" succesor was the Russian Empire.That's why Moscow's embleem was the two headed eagle,just like Rome's and Constantinople's.;) Three powerful empires-one embleem.

The "old" one was of almost all europe but the byzantine was all the way form Syria lebanon and Egypt to Italy and up to russia-IF I remember correctly.Of course without the old,there can't be the new.The empires excelled at different areas of civilization also.

ShiroRm
12-01-2007, 05:59 AM
Romans were dominated culturally and Greeks physically.I think also a Latin poet said that..?

Yes, it was Horace. He said: "Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit et artes intulit agresti Latio", id est (latin again) "conquered Greece conquered her ferocius conqueror in turn and gave fine arts to agricultural Latium (Rome's region)".

It's true, but Romans developed something Greeks never had: a refined legal system, essential in order to govern different peoples and integrate them in their state effectively.
Greeks were proud of their respective little cities instead, holding off not only strangers ("oi Barbaroi", id est people not speaking Greek), but even other Greeks coming from different cities.


The "old" one was of almost all europe but the byzantine was all the way form Syria lebanon and Egypt to Italy and up to russia-IF I remember correctly.Of course without the old,there can't be the new.The empires excelled at different areas of civilization also.

Hem, the original/old Roman empire wasn't the largest ever. However, this pic shows its maximum extension:

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff14/andant123/800px-LocationRomanEmpire.png

slice bh compliment
12-01-2007, 09:53 AM
Whoever wins this, it is a dubious distinction if you really think about it.

Oh, and I think I might be the only one who laughed at the Richard Ings joke. Well done.

I was also thinking of poor old Frank Hammond, who did one of my matches when I was a young player. He also chaired the legendary Mac/Nasty debacle at Flushing Meadow.

Rickson
12-01-2007, 10:01 AM
Which is / was the most powerful or successful empire? History is no barrier - make your choice, be it Roman Empire, British Empire, Ancient Greece, or the current US Empire.

I'm biased and am going to go for the British Empire...

Emperor Palpatine and Darth Vader's empire was the most successful.

http://themes.belchfire.net/screenshots/DarthVader.jpg

jmsx521
12-01-2007, 10:22 AM
I agree with Rickson: Vader can destroy all other empires together with only one powerful laser beam.... You can ask Princess Leia if you don't believe: She'll confirm... she had to witness it with her own eyes!

malakas
12-01-2007, 10:39 AM
Yes, it was Horace. He said: "Graecia capta ferum victorem cepit et artes intulit agresti Latio", id est (latin again) "conquered Greece conquered her ferocius conqueror in turn and gave fine arts to agricultural Latium (Rome's region)".

It's true, but Romans developed something Greeks never had: a refined legal system, essential in order to govern different peoples and integrate them in their state effectively.
Greeks were proud of their respective little cities instead, holding off not only strangers ("oi Barbaroi", id est people not speaking Greek), but even other Greeks coming from different cities.




Hem, the original/old Roman empire wasn't the largest ever. However, this pic shows its maximum extension:

http://i236.photobucket.com/albums/ff14/andant123/800px-LocationRomanEmpire.png

Yes,but Solon and Drakon had already made famous legal systems before them too.:p
anyway,I don't think the best empire is even the largest to be honest.The best empire would be the one that managed to remain into the mind of ppl for thousands of year,a craddle of civilization where ppl could live in peace.If that's not an oxymoron.

ShiroRm
12-01-2007, 11:00 AM
Yes,but Solon and Drakon had already made famous legal systems before them too.:p

They made legal systems good for small cities only.
However, have you even heard of Zaleucus (Zaleukos)? :-)

anyway,I don't think the best empire is even the largest to be honest.The best empire would be the one that managed to remain into the mind of ppl for thousands of year,a craddle of civilization where ppl could live in peace.If that's not an oxymoron.

Of course, I agree with you

lethalfang
12-01-2007, 09:44 PM
Yes,but Solon and Drakon had already made famous legal systems before them too.:p
anyway,I don't think the best empire is even the largest to be honest.The best empire would be the one that managed to remain into the mind of ppl for thousands of year,a craddle of civilization where ppl could live in peace.If that's not an oxymoron.

I agree. The "most successful" empire should be the most historically influential and thus the most relevant, as well as being the dominant power, e.g. military, economic, as well as cultural power, during their times.
That's why I picked Rome and Great Britain.

AM28143
12-01-2007, 09:53 PM
"Which is the best Empire?" is a difficult question to answer. Is the best empire the most powerful? Is the best empire the most technologically advanced? Or is the best empire the kindest to its citizens? There are many ways to look at. Also, one has to conisder the time frame. Compared to Britian or America, Rome was small, but it was very large for its time period. So, I think the question is impossible to answer.

ShiroRm
12-02-2007, 01:54 PM
as usual, we're expressing opinions.

the most important thing seems to me the tendence to indicate the reasons why we have our respective ones, in order to give others elements to think about and reply accordingly.
statements like "the best is X. Period" seem to me meaningless

About Britain, I like two things made there the most (a part from literature): Magna Charta (and the Habeas corpus) and Parliamentary system.
But they aren't related to the Empire probably

OrangeOne
12-02-2007, 03:38 PM
Oh, and I think I might be the only one who laughed at the Richard Ings joke. Well done.

I was also thinking of poor old Frank Hammond, who did one of my matches when I was a young player. He also chaired the legendary Mac/Nasty debacle at Flushing Meadow.

Thanks - I'm glad someone did :)

OO.
....wishing I'd had a match umpired by, well, anyone other than maybe a team-mate many moons ago? :)

diegaa
12-02-2007, 03:49 PM
well, in terms of territory it has to be the spanish empire of teh XVI century.

RiosTheGenius
12-02-2007, 04:05 PM
As far as successful... Probably the English Empire, no doubt about that.
the Current "US Empire" is a bit of a joke. if considered an empire is by far the lamest in history.
To me the chinese are the most relevant people in human history, they were just fantastic. three thousand years ago they were doing and thinking stuff the western world didn't figure out until the medieval times.. they lost their power around 200CE and almost 2000 years later they're now one of the world powers again.... no other culture has ever done that.
being at the top in two different eras. and mind you the first one lasted 1200 years.

RiosTheGenius
12-02-2007, 04:07 PM
well, in terms of territory it has to be the spanish empire of teh XVI century.
yeah... the only problem is that their empire only lasted one hundred years.... they got into fights with the turks, english and after that storm that killed most of their troops while going over to take england they never really recovered from that and started to lose power and the lands in south america, etc...

slice bh compliment
12-02-2007, 04:41 PM
...To me the chinese are the most relevant people in human history, they were just fantastic. three thousand years ago they were doing and thinking stuff the western world didn't figure out until the medieval times.. they lost their power around 200CE and almost 2000 years later they're now one of the world powers again.... no other culture has ever done that.
being at the top in two different eras. and mind you the first one lasted 1200 years.

Yeah, well ahead. And they are still world leaders in both industry AND human rights violations!

Kidding. I'm an American and we do not need to be throwing stones at anyone.

I will say this, though, history is kindest to those who write it.

diegaa
12-02-2007, 07:44 PM
yeah... the only problem is that their empire only lasted one hundred years.... they got into fights with the turks, english and after that storm that killed most of their troops while going over to take england they never really recovered from that and started to lose power and the lands in south america, etc...

wow, rios, welcome back! :)

lethalfang
12-02-2007, 07:55 PM
As far as successful... Probably the English Empire, no doubt about that.
the Current "US Empire" is a bit of a joke. if considered an empire is by far the lamest in history.
To me the chinese are the most relevant people in human history, they were just fantastic. three thousand years ago they were doing and thinking stuff the western world didn't figure out until the medieval times.. they lost their power around 200CE and almost 2000 years later they're now one of the world powers again.... no other culture has ever done that.
being at the top in two different eras. and mind you the first one lasted 1200 years.

One thing that held the Chinese Empire back as far as historical relevance, is the fact that China did not make much meaningful contact outside East Asia, and thus they have very limited influence on the rest of the world. This is the area British has others beat soundly.

"US Empire" existed in a different era. We now live in a era when wars are considered unacceptable and international diplomacy is made ever easier (due to communication technologies). Imperial ambitions have fallen out of style. Most of the nations, including the US, has abandoned the traditional imperial aspirations. Annex of a weak state by a powerful state is no longer considered acceptable. Instead, the Powers seek to dominate only on economic and diplomatic fronts.

ShiroRm
12-02-2007, 09:59 PM
no other culture has ever done that.
being at the top in two different eras

not just to argue, but in order to try to arrive to more true convictions,
consider the times: 1) of Greek (including Magna Graecia's/Greater Greek's) cultural edge; 2) of Roman empire; 3) of the Repubbliche marinare/Maritime Republics (for example, look at the origin of St George's Cross: http://wapedia.mobi/en/England?t=15.1.); 4) of Humanism and Renaissance.
China hasn't been the only country on the top in different eras

CanadianChic
12-02-2007, 10:06 PM
Going from merely a collection of 13 puny colonies to "sea to shining sea," plus Hawaii and Guam, was an imperial expansion.

Umm..I think most refer to it as a creation of a country (and a bloody one at that) as America is hardly an empire.

tricky
12-02-2007, 10:09 PM
I agree with Rickson: Vader can destroy all other empires together with only one powerful laser beam.... You can ask Princess Leia if you don't believe: She'll confirm... she had to witness it with her own eyes!

The problem with the Galactic Empire is that it only existed for about 30 years. Much like his cousin Batman, Vader was revealed to be a real emo and punked out when Palpatine was laying the smackdown on his boy Luke. Had he let him finish the job, GE would still be owning wookies to this day.

35ft6
12-02-2007, 10:13 PM
Mongols, baby!

Phil
12-02-2007, 11:06 PM
Mongols, baby!
Yes, at the height of the Mongol empire, one could travel for thousands of miles-literally from Peking to Baghdad and still be under the protection of the khan. It was also an empire that, despite the brutal and genocidal method in which it was built, showed quite a tolerance for various religions and cultures once it was firmly established.

lethalfang
12-02-2007, 11:15 PM
Mongols, baby!

No longevity. Historically speaking, they're a blip.

ShiroRm
12-02-2007, 11:28 PM
Mongols, baby!

what's their legacy?
they crushed their opponents both in the east and in the west, but what did they leave to us?

RiosTheGenius
12-02-2007, 11:40 PM
One thing that held the Chinese Empire back as far as historical relevance, is the fact that China did not make much meaningful contact outside East Asia, and thus they have very limited influence on the rest of the world. This is the area British has others beat soundly.

"US Empire" existed in a different era. We now live in a era when wars are considered unacceptable and international diplomacy is made ever easier (due to communication technologies). Imperial ambitions have fallen out of style. Most of the nations, including the US, has abandoned the traditional imperial aspirations. Annex of a weak state by a powerful state is no longer considered acceptable. Instead, the Powers seek to dominate only on economic and diplomatic fronts.
you must also remember that the Ego of the west, which always consider themselves as better people would have never accepted that the Chinese had it right from the beginning, and that's a scientifically proven fact.

lethalfang
12-02-2007, 11:49 PM
what's their legacy?
they crushed their opponents both in the east and in the west, but what did they leave to us?

Lots of ruins.

Phil
12-02-2007, 11:50 PM
you must also remember that the Ego of the west, which always consider themselves as better people would have never accepted that the Chinese had it right from the beginning, and that's a scientifically proven fact.
You should step back from your America bashing and consider that ALL great powers have an "ego". The Chinese STILL think they are the center of the universe and are a superior race...this is not an isolated belief. It is not called the "Middle Kingdom" for nothing. "Ego" as you define it, is not limited to the West.

RiosTheGenius
12-03-2007, 12:02 AM
You should step back from your America bashing and consider that ALL great powers have an "ego". The Chinese STILL think they are the center of the universe and are a superior race...this is not an isolated belief. It is not called the "Middle Kingdom" for nothing. "Ego" as you define it, is not limited to the West.
of course Mr Hemorhoid had something to say.... When I talk about the west I mean european empires... no one said anything about america, which is not relevant to the conversation as the US placed itself as a power but I would hardly contrast it against England, Spain, Romans, chinese or Greek... you must remember that along with power these empires influenced and passed along art , religion, cultures, etc... the US only focused its power on economy and putting the nose where it didn't belong.

ShiroRm
12-03-2007, 12:02 AM
Lots of ruins.

...of others :-)

CanadianChic
12-03-2007, 12:14 AM
of course Mr Hemorhoid had something to say.... When I talk about the west I mean european empires... no one said anything about america, which is not relevant to the conversation as the US placed itself as a power but I would hardly contrast it against England, Spain, Romans, chinese or Greek... you must remember that along with power these empires influenced and passed along art , religion, cultures, etc... the US only focused its power on economy and putting the nose where it didn't belong.

If I may...thanks. If you meant to specify European countries then you should have stated as such. Your post was vague and I assumed you were referencing the U.S. as well since it is known to Europe as such.

Although I do not disagree entirely with your statement on religion, culture, art, etc., give them time. They are still a very, very new country. BTW...not to nit pick, but if you want your insult to be effective you may want to spell it correctly. Just a thought.:roll:

Phil
12-03-2007, 12:33 AM
of course Mr Hemorhoid had something to say.... When I talk about the west I mean european empires... no one said anything about america, which is not relevant to the conversation as the US placed itself as a power but I would hardly contrast it against England, Spain, Romans, chinese or Greek... you must remember that along with power these empires influenced and passed along art , religion, cultures, etc... the US only focused its power on economy and putting the nose where it didn't belong.
Wrong again, asshead.

Don't ALL "Empires" put their nose where it doesn't belong-at least from the perspective of the people's whom these countries conquer and subjugate? And to say that America is just about economics, dismisses the widespread cultural domination of the US-through its media. If you wear Nikes on your feet, eat at McDonald's or KFC and rent Hollywood DVD's, than you are a cultural subject of the American "empire". If the Romans existed today, they would have CNN and Hollywood-like propaganda engines to augment their military power.

You haven't changed-still the complete ignoramous; biting off your nose to spite your face...anything to get a dig in at the country that gave you an education and a home, at least a temporary home-without judging you. Walk around in China and see if you get the same treatment.

origmarm
12-03-2007, 04:57 AM
British or Roman. Both for the new levels of technology and standard of life they propagated.

That and the British had an amazing size to territory controlled ratio going, though I am biased

slice bh compliment
12-03-2007, 05:29 AM
what's their legacy?
they crushed their opponents both in the east and in the west, but what did they leave to us?


Mongolian Barbecue
The wrath of...or at least the name of Khan.....featured prominently in the Star Trek saga.
And the most obvious legacy, Mahboob Khan! With that last name, his kids would have no problem getting into one of the many storied Mongol-founded universities still standing to this day!

caesar66
12-03-2007, 05:32 AM
I vote for Roman, but one thing that always will amaze me is that Alexander the Great controlled half of the known world at about 26 years old.

origmarm
12-03-2007, 05:47 AM
I vote for Roman

With your screen name why am I not surprised! :)

Tennis-Chris
12-03-2007, 06:49 AM
The Nepalese Empire. The Buddhist monks under the leadership of the Warlord Dalai Lama are on the verge of forcing China to capitulate at which time they will conquer territories that will make the creators of the British and Roman Empires jealous beyond sanity.:mrgreen:

lethalfang
12-03-2007, 10:30 AM
What has always amazed me are the great aqueduct and sewage system. The Roman citizens have running water and sewage system in their homes!
The quality of life built upon running water, after the fall of Rome, probably was not matched until the Industrial revolution.

Rick_Olson
12-03-2007, 10:57 AM
The Galactic Empire! The Emperor with Darth Vader on his side ruled with an iron fist!
Was gonna post a .jpeg of the Death Star...but you know, on reflection Solomon had it pretty good. You know, ideal Israel...

RiosTheGenius
12-03-2007, 03:38 PM
Wrong again, asshead.

Don't ALL "Empires" put their nose where it doesn't belong-at least from the perspective of the people's whom these countries conquer and subjugate? And to say that America is just about economics, dismisses the widespread cultural domination of the US-through its media. If you wear Nikes on your feet, eat at McDonald's or KFC and rent Hollywood DVD's, than you are a cultural subject of the American "empire". If the Romans existed today, they would have CNN and Hollywood-like propaganda engines to augment their military power.

You haven't changed-still the complete ignoramous; biting off your nose to spite your face...anything to get a dig in at the country that gave you an education and a home, at least a temporary home-without judging you. Walk around in China and see if you get the same treatment.
hahaha.... yeah , Asshead is pretty funny I must say.
I don't know why you have such a problem with people thinking different, I just expressed my opinion because that's how I feel. IMO the US empire isn't quite up there with other empires in history.. that's it.
I love america, I'm a naturalized american, meaning I'm american by choice. and if I lived during the roman empire I'd probably be in Rome... nationality means nothing to me, cuz if I'm unemployed tomorrow neither of the countries I'm a citizen of gives a crap about it.

35ft6
12-03-2007, 04:43 PM
what's their legacy?
they crushed their opponents both in the east and in the west, but what did they leave to us?Mongolian barbeque and John Wayne in make-up!!!

Phil
12-03-2007, 04:57 PM
hahaha.... yeah , Asshead is pretty funny I must say.
I don't know why you have such a problem with people thinking different, I just expressed my opinion because that's how I feel. IMO the US empire isn't quite up there with other empires in history.. that's it.
I love america, I'm a naturalized american, meaning I'm american by choice. and if I lived during the roman empire I'd probably be in Rome... nationality means nothing to me, cuz if I'm unemployed tomorrow neither of the countries I'm a citizen of gives a crap about it.
You confuse people who take useless (and unoriginal) pot shots at a country with people who think differently. But I agree with everything else you say here. I don't WANT the US to be an empire and I don't think it has ever (at least not until the neo-cons came to power) ASPIRED to be an empire in the same way that Britain and Rome were empires that occupied and administered huge territories. I would prefer that the USA stopped trying to be an empire these days and focus on taking care of itself and ensuring a decent future for its younger generations.

krz
12-03-2007, 05:37 PM
the NYY and Emperor Steinbrenner

ShiroRm
12-03-2007, 09:50 PM
Mongolian Barbecue
The wrath of...or at least the name of Khan.....featured prominently in the Star Trek saga.
And the most obvious legacy, Mahboob Khan! With that last name, his kids would have no problem getting into one of the many storied Mongol-founded universities still standing to this day!

Mongolian barbeque and John Wayne in make-up!!!

I see :-)
I didn't know the barbeque, at all, nor "The conqueror". It arrived in Italy at the time with the same title, but never goes on tv. I know (and like) Stagecoach or The Searchers instead.

malakas
12-04-2007, 04:02 AM
They made legal systems good for small cities only.
However, have you even heard of Zaleucus (Zaleukos)? :-)
Of course, I agree with you

Zaleukos?ah no was he another famous law maker?I hope better than Drakon.:)
One thing that held the Chinese Empire back as far as historical relevance, is the fact that China did not make much meaningful contact outside East Asia, and thus they have very limited influence on the rest of the world. This is the area British has others beat soundly.

"US Empire" existed in a different era. We now live in a era when wars are considered unacceptable and international diplomacy is made ever easier (due to communication technologies). Imperial ambitions have fallen out of style. Most of the nations, including the US, has abandoned the traditional imperial aspirations. Annex of a weak state by a powerful state is no longer considered acceptable. Instead, the Powers seek to dominate only on economic and diplomatic fronts.

:confused: do we live in a different world?!?!? :confused:

I believe that the US has an empire now.A modern empire.But imo it's place isn't among the best.Maybe for now.

malakas
12-04-2007, 04:07 AM
what's their legacy?
they crushed their opponents both in the east and in the west, but what did they leave to us?

they have built beautiful magnificent cities I think,and their era was one of the more prosperous for that area.

I vote for Roman, but one thing that always will amaze me is that Alexander the Great controlled half of the known world at about 26 years old.

he controlled almost ALL of the known world.But as amazing he may were his wasn't an empire as it was born and died with him.YET,his influence was tremendous.In art,religion,philosophy science because it brough in contact so many civilizations-greek,egyptian,babylonian,indian,persian.
Even now,the Kalas ppl in India believe that they are his offspring.

ShiroRm
12-04-2007, 07:54 AM
Zaleukos?ah no was he another famous law maker?I hope better than Drakon.:)

:-) laws weren't generally very "gentle" in the past

http://encyclopedia.jrank.org/YAK_ZYM/ZALEUCUS.html

lethalfang
12-04-2007, 05:02 PM
they have built beautiful magnificent cities I think,and their era was one of the more prosperous for that area.


For the most part, Mongols don't build cities. Their traditional lifestyle is nomadic. Everything they own is on their horsebacks. As a result, all of them are excellent horseman, and their troops are highly mobile.
When their empire grew, many Mongols started to adopt the city dweller lifestyle of their subjects, but Mongols are not known for city buildings.

slice bh compliment
12-04-2007, 05:07 PM
Okay, maybe Almaty is not greatest city in vorld....but you got to admit the Borat movie and really all Kazakhstan is product of Khan the rapist! Grandson of Khan the violent! Vas this cloze to heving offspring from Paemilla Andersons. Eh, grreat success!

RiosTheGenius
12-04-2007, 09:59 PM
You confuse people who take useless (and unoriginal) pot shots at a country with people who think differently. But I agree with everything else you say here. I don't WANT the US to be an empire and I don't think it has ever (at least not until the neo-cons came to power) ASPIRED to be an empire in the same way that Britain and Rome were empires that occupied and administered huge territories. I would prefer that the USA stopped trying to be an empire these days and focus on taking care of itself and ensuring a decent future for its younger generations.
well, I think that unfortunately my generation and the younger ones are going to be the cause of falling of the once great american economy.
the wide open access to credit, and the buying compulsivity of the new american adult is causing that the average american owes more than he owns, and the worst thing is that in the majority of the cases this money is owed to foreign banks and foreign investment groups. Most Americans around my age owe their cars, homes, student loans, etc.. then they get married and they're not willling to move to a lower level neighborhood than where they grew up, so they buy these million dollar homes they can't afford cuz they're not willing to suck it up for a couple of years like our parents did, so they live in neighborhoods they can't afford and that's why I believe my generation is going to ruin the US economy.

malakas
12-05-2007, 02:18 AM
For the most part, Mongols don't build cities. Their traditional lifestyle is nomadic. Everything they own is on their horsebacks. As a result, all of them are excellent horseman, and their troops are highly mobile.
When their empire grew, many Mongols started to adopt the city dweller lifestyle of their subjects, but Mongols are not known for city buildings.

Eh I just said what I saw in documentary last week!:p They showed some beautiful cities that survive untouched almost to this day-I think somewhere in India.:) Their architecture,decorations and mechanics were pretty unique and amazing.

lethalfang
12-05-2007, 10:47 AM
Eh I just said what I saw in documentary last week!:p They showed some beautiful cities that survive untouched almost to this day-I think somewhere in India.:) Their architecture,decorations and mechanics were pretty unique and amazing.

Did they mention who built it? Indians or Mongols?

malakas
12-05-2007, 02:13 PM
Did they mention who built it? Indians or Mongols?

The mongols built them.I took a minute to look into wikipedia and this what I found about the contribution of the mongol empire:

The Mongol Empire is also responsible for many technological achievements that are in wide use today. They were the first people to develop the bicycle and used it to speed trade among different villages[citation needed]. In addition, they discovered a unique way to increase the population of fish in a given body of water.

The Mongol Empire had a lasting impact, unifying large regions, some of which (such as eastern and western Russia and the western parts of China) remain unified today, albeit under different rulership. The Mongol empire is traditionally given credit for reuniting China and expanding its frontiers.
Europe’s knowledge of the known world was immensely expanded by the information brought back by ambassadors and merchants. When Columbus sailed in 1492, his missions were to reach Cathay, the land of the Genghis Khan. Some research studies indicate that the Black Death, which devastated Europe in the late 1340s, may have reached from China to Europe along the trade routes of the Mongol Empire.In 1347, the Genoese possession of Caffa, a great trade emporium on the Crimean peninsula, came under siege by an army of Mongol warriors under the command of Janibeg. After a protracted siege during which the Mongol army was reportedly withering from the disease, they decided to use the infected corpses as a biological weapon. :shock: The corpses were catapulted over the city walls, infecting the inhabitants.The Genoese traders fled, transferring the plague via their ships into the south of Europe, whence it rapidly spread. The total number of deaths worldwide from the pandemic is estimated at 75 million people, there were an estimated 20 million deaths in Europe alone. It is estimated that between one-quarter and two-thirds of the of Europe's population died from the outbreak of the plague between 1348 and 1350.

Among the Western accounts, R. J. Rummel estimated that 30 million people were killed under the rule of the Mongol Empire. The population of China fell by half in fifty years of Mongol rule. Before the Mongol invasion, Chinese dynasties reportedly had approximately 120 million inhabitants; after the conquest was completed in 1279, the 1300 census reported roughly 60 million people.[12] David Nicole states in The Mongol Warlords, "terror and mass extermination of anyone opposing them was a well tested Mongol tactic." [13] About half of the Russian population died during the invasion.[14] Historians estimate that up to half of Hungary's two million population at that time were victims of the Mongol invasion.Many ancient sources described Genghis Khan's conquests as wholesale destruction on an unprecedented scale in their certain geographical regions, and therefore probably causing great changes in the demographics of Asia. For example, over much of Central Asia speakers of Iranian languages were replaced by speakers of Turkic languages. The eastern part of the Islamic world experienced the terrifying holocaust of the Mongol invasion, which turned northern and eastern Iran into a desert. Between 1220 and 1260, the total population of Persia may had dropped from 2,500,000 to 250,000 as a result of mass extermination and famine.

The influence of the Mongol Empire may prove to be even more direct — Zerjal et al [2003][17] identify a Y-chromosomal lineage present in about 8% of the men in a large region of Asia (or about 0.5% of the men in the world).!!!!!! :shock:

The Empire unified all the tribes of Mongolia, which made possible the emergence of a Mongol nation and culture. Modern Mongolians are generally proud of the empire and the sense of identity that it gave to them.

lol nice identity to be proud

ShiroRm
12-05-2007, 10:54 PM
The mongols built them.I took a minute to look into wikipedia and this what I found about the contribution of the mongol empire:

The Mongol Empire is also responsible for many technological achievements that are in wide use today. They were the first people to develop the bicycle and used it to speed trade among different villages[citation needed]. In addition, they discovered a unique way to increase the population of fish in a given body of water.

The Mongol Empire had a lasting impact, unifying large regions, some of which (such as eastern and western Russia and the western parts of China) remain unified today, albeit under different rulership. The Mongol empire is traditionally given credit for reuniting China and expanding its frontiers.
Europe’s knowledge of the known world was immensely expanded by the information brought back by ambassadors and merchants. When Columbus sailed in 1492, his missions were to reach Cathay, the land of the Genghis Khan. Some research studies indicate that the Black Death, which devastated Europe in the late 1340s, may have reached from China to Europe along the trade routes of the Mongol Empire.In 1347, the Genoese possession of Caffa, a great trade emporium on the Crimean peninsula, came under siege by an army of Mongol warriors under the command of Janibeg. After a protracted siege during which the Mongol army was reportedly withering from the disease, they decided to use the infected corpses as a biological weapon. :shock: The corpses were catapulted over the city walls, infecting the inhabitants.The Genoese traders fled, transferring the plague via their ships into the south of Europe, whence it rapidly spread. The total number of deaths worldwide from the pandemic is estimated at 75 million people, there were an estimated 20 million deaths in Europe alone. It is estimated that between one-quarter and two-thirds of the of Europe's population died from the outbreak of the plague between 1348 and 1350.

Among the Western accounts, R. J. Rummel estimated that 30 million people were killed under the rule of the Mongol Empire. The population of China fell by half in fifty years of Mongol rule. Before the Mongol invasion, Chinese dynasties reportedly had approximately 120 million inhabitants; after the conquest was completed in 1279, the 1300 census reported roughly 60 million people.[12] David Nicole states in The Mongol Warlords, "terror and mass extermination of anyone opposing them was a well tested Mongol tactic." [13] About half of the Russian population died during the invasion.[14] Historians estimate that up to half of Hungary's two million population at that time were victims of the Mongol invasion.Many ancient sources described Genghis Khan's conquests as wholesale destruction on an unprecedented scale in their certain geographical regions, and therefore probably causing great changes in the demographics of Asia. For example, over much of Central Asia speakers of Iranian languages were replaced by speakers of Turkic languages. The eastern part of the Islamic world experienced the terrifying holocaust of the Mongol invasion, which turned northern and eastern Iran into a desert. Between 1220 and 1260, the total population of Persia may had dropped from 2,500,000 to 250,000 as a result of mass extermination and famine.

The influence of the Mongol Empire may prove to be even more direct — Zerjal et al [2003][17] identify a Y-chromosomal lineage present in about 8% of the men in a large region of Asia (or about 0.5% of the men in the world).!!!!!! :shock:

The Empire unified all the tribes of Mongolia, which made possible the emergence of a Mongol nation and culture. Modern Mongolians are generally proud of the empire and the sense of identity that it gave to them.

lol nice identity to be proud

yes, I remeber that episode at the beginning of the "Black death".
the first european port the genoese ships reached, was Messina in Sicily.
Afterwards, Genoa refused to receive the remaining ships, so that they went to Marseille...

one "consolation" may be the fact that Boccaccio took inspiration from the Black death writing his "Decameron"

Phil
12-07-2007, 06:01 AM
Did they mention who built it? Indians or Mongols?

The mongols built them.I took a minute to look into wikipedia and this what I found about the contribution of the mongol empire:

The Mongol Empire is also responsible for many technological achievements that are in wide use today. They were the first people to develop the bicycle and used it to speed trade among different villages[citation needed]. In addition, they discovered a unique way to increase the population of fish in a given body of water.

The Mongol Empire had a lasting impact, unifying large regions, some of which (such as eastern and western Russia and the western parts of China) remain unified today, albeit under different rulership. The Mongol empire is traditionally given credit for reuniting China and expanding its frontiers.
Europe’s knowledge of the known world was immensely expanded by the information brought back by ambassadors and merchants. When Columbus sailed in 1492, his missions were to reach Cathay, the land of the Genghis Khan. Some research studies indicate that the Black Death, which devastated Europe in the late 1340s, may have reached from China to Europe along the trade routes of the Mongol Empire.In 1347, the Genoese possession of Caffa, a great trade emporium on the Crimean peninsula, came under siege by an army of Mongol warriors under the command of Janibeg. After a protracted siege during which the Mongol army was reportedly withering from the disease, they decided to use the infected corpses as a biological weapon. :shock: The corpses were catapulted over the city walls, infecting the inhabitants.The Genoese traders fled, transferring the plague via their ships into the south of Europe, whence it rapidly spread. The total number of deaths worldwide from the pandemic is estimated at 75 million people, there were an estimated 20 million deaths in Europe alone. It is estimated that between one-quarter and two-thirds of the of Europe's population died from the outbreak of the plague between 1348 and 1350.

Among the Western accounts, R. J. Rummel estimated that 30 million people were killed under the rule of the Mongol Empire. The population of China fell by half in fifty years of Mongol rule. Before the Mongol invasion, Chinese dynasties reportedly had approximately 120 million inhabitants; after the conquest was completed in 1279, the 1300 census reported roughly 60 million people.[12] David Nicole states in The Mongol Warlords, "terror and mass extermination of anyone opposing them was a well tested Mongol tactic." [13] About half of the Russian population died during the invasion.[14] Historians estimate that up to half of Hungary's two million population at that time were victims of the Mongol invasion.Many ancient sources described Genghis Khan's conquests as wholesale destruction on an unprecedented scale in their certain geographical regions, and therefore probably causing great changes in the demographics of Asia. For example, over much of Central Asia speakers of Iranian languages were replaced by speakers of Turkic languages. The eastern part of the Islamic world experienced the terrifying holocaust of the Mongol invasion, which turned northern and eastern Iran into a desert. Between 1220 and 1260, the total population of Persia may had dropped from 2,500,000 to 250,000 as a result of mass extermination and famine.

The influence of the Mongol Empire may prove to be even more direct — Zerjal et al [2003][17] identify a Y-chromosomal lineage present in about 8% of the men in a large region of Asia (or about 0.5% of the men in the world).!!!!!! :shock:

The Empire unified all the tribes of Mongolia, which made possible the emergence of a Mongol nation and culture. Modern Mongolians are generally proud of the empire and the sense of identity that it gave to them.

lol nice identity to be proud
The Muhgals were not actually Mongols, though they were named after them. This is a point of confusion. The founder of the Muhgal dynasty was a descendent of Tamerlane, an Uzbek Muslim, who is not a descendent of Ghengis Khan. His wife is a descendent of the Khan.

The Mongols were not city builders (though they burned quite a few to the ground). If anything needed to be built in the Mongol empire, they used Chinese and Muslim artisans and laborers (or other slave peoples).

Malakas, you make a good point which I've always wondered about. The Mongolians are fiercely proud of Ghengis Khan, who did unify territory stretching from the Pacific Ocean to Baghdad, but he also left behind rivers of blood and millions dead. Yet, there doesn't seem to be any ambiguity on the Mongolians part regarding this very important point. I guess there aren't a whole lot of other Mongolians out there to admire. A similar phenomenon exists in Romania, where they idolize Vlad "The Impaler" Tepesh (the model for Dracula). Vlad unified the Romanians and was the first of his people to stand up against the Turks and other foreign occupying powers. And yet, the guy was also a psychopathic mass murderer. He did what Ghengis Khan didn't even do...he killed people slowly and painfully.

malakas
12-07-2007, 06:56 AM
yes, I remeber that episode at the beginning of the "Black death".
the first european port the genoese ships reached, was Messina in Sicily.
Afterwards, Genoa refused to receive the remaining ships, so that they went to Marseille...

one "consolation" may be the fact that Boccaccio took inspiration from the Black death writing his "Decameron"

one another consolation it made Scadinavians and other northern Europeans resistant to chickenpox and AIDS.
The Muhgals were not actually Mongols, though they were named after them. This is a point of confusion. The founder of the Muhgal dynasty was a descendent of Tamerlane, an Uzbek Muslim, who is not a descendent of Ghengis Khan. His wife is a descendent of the Khan.

The Mongols were not city builders (though they burned quite a few to the ground). If anything needed to be built in the Mongol empire, they used Chinese and Muslim artisans and laborers (or other slave peoples).

Malakas, you make a good point which I've always wondered about. The Mongolians are fiercely proud of Ghengis Khan, who did unify territory stretching from the Pacific Ocean to Baghdad, but he also left behind rivers of blood and millions dead. Yet, there doesn't seem to be any ambiguity on the Mongolians part regarding this very important point. I guess there aren't a whole lot of other Mongolians out there to admire. A similar phenomenon exists in Romania, where they idolize Vlad "The Impaler" Tepesh (the model for Dracula). Vlad unified the Romanians and was the first of his people to stand up against the Turks and other foreign occupying powers. And yet, the guy was also a psychopathic mass murderer. He did what Ghengis Khan didn't even do...he killed people slowly and painfully.

ah thanx a lot for the clarification!I found it strange that I didn't find a single mention in Wiki about their cities.:???:

Yes,I can understand that every nation especially those of long history have behind them thousands of years of murders,deaths and looting.-except maybe the swiss-.And one of the national heros during the Byzantine Empire -and even during modern Greece is emperor "Basileios the Bulgaroktonos" Basili the Bulgariancider-who during the wars with Symeon of Bulgaria he gave the order that of every thousand soldiers that would be captured,all of them would be blinded and have their right hand chopped and only 1 left one-eyed to lead them back to their country for their families to see.Which order was put in use for many thousands of captives.And Alexander the Great was no Angel either.
But,it's a sign of when a nation has become mature to find the courage to recognise the mistakes and the murders of the past-the bravery to recognise the historic truth and say at least one little sorry.At least for events that are chronological nearer.

Phil
12-07-2007, 07:31 AM
Yes,I can understand that every nation especially those of long history have behind them thousands of years of murders,deaths and looting.-except maybe the swiss-.And one of the national heros during the Byzantine Empire -and even during modern Greece is emperor "Basileios the Bulgaroktonos" Basili the Bulgariancider-who during the wars with Symeon of Bulgaria he gave the order that of every thousand soldiers that would be captured,all of them would be blinded and have their right hand chopped and only 1 left one-eyed to lead them back to their country for their families to see.Which order was put in use for many thousands of captives.And Alexander the Great was no Angel either.
But,it's a sign of when a nation has become mature to find the courage to recognise the mistakes and the murders of the past-the bravery to recognise the historic truth and say at least one little sorry.At least for events that are chronological nearer.
This is a very good point. I suspect that the Greeks can "come clean" on Basili as a nasty brute, and even Alexander the Great to some extent, and still be left with dozens and dozens of people who made everlasting contributions not only to Greece, but to the world. And those contributions didn't include mass killing, mutilation and taking territory. The poor Mongols and Romanians, though, don't have a lot of choice. It's basically Ghengis/Vlad or no one.

rommil
12-07-2007, 08:14 AM
Okay, maybe Almaty is not greatest city in vorld....but you got to admit the Borat movie and really all Kazakhstan is product of Khan the rapist! Grandson of Khan the violent! Vas this cloze to heving offspring from Paemilla Andersons. Eh, grreat success!

You've read the book Slice? lol

ShiroRm
12-07-2007, 08:26 AM
every nation especially those of long history have behind them thousands of years of murders,deaths and looting.-except maybe the swiss

just to add elements to the exchange, if I'm not wrong Swiss people have worked as mercenaries (infantry) for centuries.
so it seems violet cows' breeding hasn't been their unique activity into the past :-)