Ratio for practice?

[10isDad]

Out of curiousity, just wondering what people are doing for their training from the perspective of dead ball feeding drills vs. live ball drills vs. actual match play.

I know every player is different and what works for some might not be best for others. Just trying to get a feel for what people are doing, especially high-level junior tournament players.

[J011yroger]

Out of curiousity, just wondering what people are doing for their training from the perspective of dead ball feeding drills vs. live ball drills vs. actual match play.

I know every player is different and what works for some might not be best for others. Just trying to get a feel for what people are doing, especially high-level junior tournament players.

I try to get away from dead ball drilling as much as possible. Only if I am trying to iron out a certain stroke, certain shot, certain shot selection scenario. But I am a huge proponent of live ball drilling.

What high level junior needs practice hitting balls being fed to them? Your son eats feedballs like pancakes. Even on stuff that he may struggle on, high backhands, low short balls, stuff like that. 20 dead balls to get the juices flowing then send in the approrpiate feeds and play the points out.

I like to mimic game situations as much as possible in practice, or drill to targets to improve targeting and precision.

Also ask any pro on the planet what the two most important shots in tennis are, chances are he will say serve and return of serve. When I go watch junior development drill sessions, it is the absolutely least practiced thing. Especially the return.

Watching 14s and 16s they can all hit the cover off the ball off the ground, but they aren't doing much damage with their serves and returns.

J

[J011yroger]

Addendum, instead of thinking, hey I hit that one well as in dead ball drilling, I prefer the pattern thinking, hit the ball and be ready for the reply from your opponent, that way you learn to anticipate what shots are comming back at you when you hit what balls, and can cheat with your recovery positions to play the percentages.

J

[10isDad]

A little background as to why I ask. This is the history of my kid's 'clinics':

1st clinic - basically only dead ball feeding. Stressed technique and tried to make juniors conform to the technique he felt was best. In some cases, it wasn't the best technique for them. Lots of technique but little strategy.

2nd clinic - Lots of dead ball feeds, but based on directionals. Stressed footwork. Some supervised match-play and some live ball feeding/game play

Current clinic - 100% unsupervised match play. NO drilling...period. However, the majority of the kids in the clinic are fairly experienced players. The coaches feel the players know the technique and now it's up to them to learn to apply it. Drilling, for them, is for private lessons.

[J011yroger]

I do this by a more rapid feeding so the lesson has to hit and quickly recover because another ball is on its way..i also will mix up the pace, spin, and location of the feeds so they can get the footwork right. this can also be an incredible aerobic thing as well for an advanced player and doesnt take long.

Yo, good call, wasn't thinking along those lines with the orig questions, that hit and recover is one of my favorite things to work on. When I do it, I make absolutely certain that whoever is feeding me goes into the drill with the understanding that I want them to try to kill me. If I can say my name after 30 balls the drill wasn't hard enough. Spit and snot running out of my face are added indicators that he is doing a good job.

Obviously when I am running the drills I scale them up or down according to the "Candy ass factor" of the lesson (Anyone know the P.C. term?)

J

[J011yroger]

1st clinic - basically only dead ball feeding. Stressed technique and tried to make juniors conform to the technique he felt was best. In some cases, it wasn't the best technique for them. Lots of technique but little strategy.

Lame, not an advanced enough session for your son's level. He will be playing DI next year right?

2nd clinic - Lots of dead ball feeds, but based on directionals. Stressed footwork. Some supervised match-play and some live ball feeding/game play

Sounds like the best of the bunch.

Current clinic - 100% unsupervised match play. NO drilling...period. However, the majority of the kids in the clinic are fairly experienced players. The coaches feel the players know the technique and now it's up to them to learn to apply it. Drilling, for them, is for private lessons.

I hope you are not paying more for this than for open court time. Your son should have his own circle of match players to have match play practice against.

J

[10isDad]

I hope you are not paying more for this than for open court time. Your son should have his own circle of match players to have match play practice against.

Pretty much just court time....

Unfortunately coach had 2 issues: most importantly he moved to Florida. Prior to that, however, is the fact that he was somewhat of a head-case.

The thought of the current clinic is that many juniors don't have the drive to schedule enough match play. One coach said they used to mainly do various drilling and had the clinicians keep track of the number of sets they played each week. In most cases, most of the juniors didn't play many. So, they changed the format so that you come to 'clinic', are assigned an opponent, play a set. After the set, you may end up playing a half court crosscourt only rally game, or other point-based game. At the end of clinic is a solid 30 to 45 minutes of fitness.

What I've noticed is my kid is playing matches better but some old bad habits are creeping back up. In my opinion it's due to the lack of drilling...

[migjam]

The problem that I have with my sons clinics is that there is not enough instruction being given. So, bad habits continue to be bad habits. For example, one kid foot faults at least a foot and a half on almost every serve. Where should this be addressed? This should be done in the clinics. But guess what, it's not.
The clinics generally have a lot of live ball drilling going on and then games. What I see good about his current clinic is he is getting to hit with kids his own age.
After a couple years of clinics, privates and academy summer camps, I came to the realization that there isn't a coach out there that really cares about your kid.
I am my sons own private coach, and have the background to be able to do that with him. My son is also very willing to work and listen to me. I realize that this isn't always the case with kids and parents, but it works for us.

[TennisCoachFLA]

I try to get away from dead ball drilling as much as possible. Only if I am trying to iron out a certain stroke, certain shot, certain shot selection scenario. But I am a huge proponent of live ball drilling.

What high level junior needs practice hitting balls being fed to them? Your son eats feedballs like pancakes. Even on stuff that he may struggle on, high backhands, low short balls, stuff like that. 20 dead balls to get the juices flowing then send in the approrpiate feeds and play the points out.

I like to mimic game situations as much as possible in practice, or drill to targets to improve targeting and precision.

Also ask any pro on the planet what the two most important shots in tennis are, chances are he will say serve and return of serve. When I go watch junior development drill sessions, it is the absolutely least practiced thing. Especially the return.

Watching 14s and 16s they can all hit the cover off the ball off the ground, but they aren't doing much damage with their serves and returns.

J

You nailed it. I preach practicing the serve, most notably the 2nd serve, and return of service. The 2nd serve and service returns are very neglected.

In my 30 years in the game, I have learned many things. But the most important thing:

Once you get to an advanced level the spread in talent between players is small. All it takes to win more is a slight edge. The player with the better 2nd serve and the best return of service has that edge, and wins a higher percentage of matches.

[10isDad]

Our current general week:

Sunday - a.m. hits with a friend. No match play, but lots of solid rallying: cross-court, down the line, etc. Usually for 2 hours.

Sunday p.m. - weekly private lesson. All lessons end with 10 to 15 minutes of service return practice.

Monday afternoon pre-clinic - practices serving to targets for 45 minutes

Monday clinic - 90 minutes of match play + 30 to 45 minutes of fitness

Tuesday - plays a match with a former D1 women's player

Wednesday pre-clinic - I feed him balls for volley practice for 45 minutes

Wednesday clinic - 90 minutes of match-play and 30 to 45 minutes of fitness

Thursday - Either takes the day off from tennis and does fitness or hits w/ a friend or practices serving

Friday - 2 hours of match play

Saturday - hits w/ a friend

[J011yroger]

Our current general week:

Sunday - a.m. hits with a friend. No match play, but lots of solid rallying: cross-court, down the line, etc. Usually for 2 hours.

Sunday p.m. - weekly private lesson. All lessons end with 10 to 15 minutes of service return practice.

Monday afternoon pre-clinic - practices serving to targets for 45 minutes

Monday clinic - 90 minutes of match play + 30 to 45 minutes of fitness

Tuesday - plays a match with a former D1 women's player

Wednesday pre-clinic - I feed him balls for volley practice for 45 minutes

Wednesday clinic - 90 minutes of match-play and 30 to 45 minutes of fitness

Thursday - Either takes the day off from tennis and does fitness or hits w/ a friend or practices serving

Friday - 2 hours of match play

Saturday - hits w/ a friend

Looks good to me, nice solid 15 hour week. As long as he is putting some serious effort in. I like the day off, and assume that the saturday hit with a friend would be considered his light day.

The only thing I might try to jockey, would be to get the light day after the day off. I have a very heavy training schedule in the outdoor season, barring rain, and really one day off doesn't help when my body starts to revolt, but two days off in a row have stellar results, so your day off, followed by a light 2 hour hit to let your body heal up a bit, but get you warmed for the tough week to come.

J

[J011yroger]

Where should this be addressed? This should be done in the clinics. But guess what, it's not.

That should be addressed in private with the kids personal coach. Clinics are just glorified practice sessions. Practice with structure, the only type of instruction you can expect there are key pointers, the lame stuff everybody yells out. "Keep your left hand up! Keep your racquet head up! Get down to the ball! Drive through the ball! Little steps! Keep your head still!"

J

[J011yroger]

You nailed it. I preach practicing the serve, most notably the 2nd serve, and return of service. The 2nd serve and service returns are very neglected.

In my 30 years in the game, I have learned many things. But the most important thing:

Once you get to an advanced level the spread in talent between players is small. All it takes to win more is a slight edge. The player with the better 2nd serve and the best return of service has that edge, and wins a higher percentage of matches.

In a tournament that I probably shouldn't have played because my wrist really wasn't up to the task, I played a DI college kid on break.

In our first set there were three rallies of two or more balls. It was like two ships pulling up next to each other and just blasting their cannons until one sank. It was on dry fast Har-Tru and all we did was bomb serves at each other, I couldn't get his back and he couldn't get mine back. I probably hit 3 aces or unreturnables for each ball he got back over the net, and if he trickled one over for a lucky point, or I smacked his lame return for a winner. And he had the same success against me on his serve.

And on the change overs I thought of all those hours and hours of groundies the juniors hit, and here I am, almost done with a set, and needed none of it.

Granted, it was an extreme case, but when I am playing well, serve and return are all that really matters. Bearing in mind that I am a 1-2-3 player, who can go 4-5-6, but is in big trouble around 7-8-9+.

J

[migjam]

That should be addressed in private with the kids personal coach. Clinics are just glorified practice sessions. Practice with structure, the only type of instruction you can expect there are key pointers, the lame stuff everybody yells out. "Keep your left hand up! Keep your racquet head up! Get down to the ball! Drive through the ball! Little steps! Keep your head still!"

J

I would consider foot faults something that should be pointed out not only in privates but in clinics as well.

[TennisCoachFLA]

In a tournament that I probably shouldn't have played because my wrist really wasn't up to the task, I played a DI college kid on break.

In our first set there were three rallies of two or more balls. It was like two ships pulling up next to each other and just blasting their cannons until one sank. It was on dry fast Har-Tru and all we did was bomb serves at each other, I couldn't get his back and he couldn't get mine back. I probably hit 3 aces or unreturnables for each ball he got back over the net, and if he trickled one over for a lucky point, or I smacked his lame return for a winner. And he had the same success against me on his serve.

And on the change overs I thought of all those hours and hours of groundies the juniors hit, and here I am, almost done with a set, and needed none of it.

Granted, it was an extreme case, but when I am playing well, serve and return are all that really matters. Bearing in mind that I am a 1-2-3 player, who can go 4-5-6, but is in big trouble around 7-8-9+.

J


Great post. I have seen that so many times, the ground strokes not being all that important in many matches. The 1st serve, 2nd serve, and ability to return serves needs to be at the top of all juniors practice schedules.

[BradBaughman]

2 strong days 2-4 hrs 2 hrs hitting with afriend , 2hrs. clinic

2 light days 1-3 hrs 1hr. hitting with a freind 2 hrs drilling with friends very light

1 medium day 1-3 hrs (1hr one on one with me) 2 hrs cruising just hitting with me or a friend (im not that good)

2 days off

this is not a great schedule and needs some improvements believe me, we need to make changes if we want to get better ,, he has a lot of areas he needs to improve and that will only come through better planning,,his net game is not the greatest nor is his movement so hopefully we can make some changes and improve !!

[tennismike33]

I would consider foot faults something that should be pointed out not only in privates but in clinics as well.

Another foot fault hater is heard from. The level of instruction and the attention to details, which tennis is all about the details. Watch a touring pro play, they pay very close attention to the details, where they stand, the positioning of the racket.

In watching many drills and clinics in our area I have noticed that the "PRO's" just walk around and say hello to everyone. There is limited constructive knowledge shared. My pet peeve is to hear a pro complain that a person can't volley, yet they do not correct the hand postioning or the set up needed to execute a good volley.

C'mon earn your money, help people get better.