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Bungalo Bill
03-20-2004, 11:46 AM
Hey Eric,

I noticed on your threads your a Certified Trainer? Is that fitness trainer? If you are here is my question.

I am familiar with the static methods to build up the shoulders such as weights etc. I am looking for particular exercises that strenghten the shoulders a little more dynamically. Looking for more tennis specific stuff. I know of the weighted racquet and the "bungi" cord kind of training, do you know of some stuff that you really were impressed by the improvement in strength it gave your students fo tennis? Or is this pretty much it?

Eric Matuszewski
03-20-2004, 07:34 PM
Dear Bill,

This is a very interesting question. Yes I'm certified by the American Council on Excercise.

Here's some stuff about shoulder strengthening for tennis.

My guess is you wonder what excercises can be done to get people serving faster.

BE CAREFULL , things can get dangerous really easily...

Kinematic studies done at the Olympics, reveal that one of the fastest motions in the serve is internal rotation of the arm.

This may lead people to believe that if you can develop faster internal rotators that your serve speed will increase. This is a judement call left up to the individual coach/trainer.
I however take some issues with this approach.

Studies of elite tennis players (Tournament and College level) reveal that OUR INTERNAL ROTATORS ARE ALMOST ALWAYS WAY TOO STRONG ALREADY for our external rotators.

This means that as tennis players we are imballanced in our shoulder, and thus we are always in danger of injuring ourselves because of this imbalance.

I believe we should pay particular attention to our external rotators first (and do strengthening excercises for them), and in addition, to make effort to increase the flexability of out internal rotators so as to get some balance back to the joint.

I encourage students to do variations of external rotations using Therabands VERY SLOWLY.

Studies suggest that muscles work 50% harder when doing work slowly, and that ALL muscle growth is stimulated by this type of slow, especially eccentric type resistance work.

I've experimented with plyometric training (This is often referred to as dynamic training) on myself, but found the results much less dramatic than negative (slow eccentric) type work.

Also, I don't believe plyometric excersises for the shoulders to be worth the risks. Remember, these are relatively fragile muscles were dealing with.

SLOW IS THE WAY TO GO!, when it comes to the shoulder .

It's also important to do frequent stretching for the internal rotators.

Theraband.com has a section on tennis specific uses written by Todd Ellenbenbecker (a well known Shoulder expert/tennis guy) that is definitelly worth checking out. Also, Theraband is the cheapest and probably the most portable equipment you can have, as if you needed another reason to get some. You can buy knock off Theraband at any local fitness store.


One more thing to consider when thinking about creating monster serves....

I once read that Sampras had an extreme degree of internal rotator flexibility. I believe this had something to do with his success and how his motion and very smooth acceleration developed.

Also, having a Medical Doctor as a serving coach as a kid probably didn't hurt him. Someone who has a deep understanding of Anatomy+Physiology and a passion for tennis can do some awesome things for a kid. (Nothing to say about the rest of Fischers life, I wasn't there.)

Hope this stuff helps,
Best Wishes,
Eric Matuszewski

Eric Matuszewski
03-20-2004, 07:52 PM
Also, I will probably sound like a broken record here to anyone that has met me, but....

If you want more ball speed on ANY STROKE...

learn to feel your legs doing the stroke more.

this includes the serve.

most kids that think they are using their legs still have ALOT more push left in reserve.

Get the legs going and the ball will go as fast as you want.

Studies have also shown that the more you use your legs, the less torque has to be taken by the shoulder joint.

so...PUSH WITH YOUR LEGS, PUSH WITH YOUR LEGS, PUSH WITH YOUR LEGS. " " " " " "

Bungalo Bill
03-21-2004, 12:19 AM
I agree with all that you said, that the lower body, hips and trunk is were the power comes from.

My concern is for this is in the groundstrokes area as I am studying some research that I have found to be profound. I notice that a lot of players also dont know how to use their shoulder muscles properly to hit the ball.

I tried this on myself. I did a search for shoulder muscle (http://www.sportsrehab.info/chiropractic/exercises/intersholdrot.pdf) flexibility and performed the exercise on myself. I am lefthanded.

I noticed that my left shoulder is considerably tighter then my right. This is most likely normal as I concluded that the reason is probably due to more use in on my left shoulder as compared to my right shoulder.

Well, here is where I am going. I am utilzing some new insights on how to develop someone to hit a professional level forehand. It is a method which I beleive can considerably shorten the amount of time to develop this advanced stroke compared to traditional ways. In other words, I can reduce the development cycle of this forehand stroke dramatically.

In order for me to take my students from the basic forehand I am teaching, to an advanced forehand and eventually to a professional level forehand, at some point I need to consider shoulder strength. One of the stages requires improved shoulder strength. Obviously, the other things need to be there as well such as balance, footwork, use of the legs etc. but that is another subject.

But for this issue I am considering using the Theraband as you suggested to improve strength for this stroke when I feel the student is ready to move on to the stage that requires it. What exercises do you suggest with this equipment?

Bungalo Bill
03-21-2004, 12:30 AM
Ahhh I did a search, tell my what you think of this information about relevance to what your talking about and the exercises to perform. I can see what exercises need to be performed with the theraband. Let me know if this is what your referring to.

Thanks for you help, appreciate it very much.

http://www.spinalhealth.net/ex-rot.html

Eric Matuszewski
03-21-2004, 03:41 AM
These look good, they are mostly variations of external rotation.

Here is the link I initially was thinking of.

http://www.thera-bandacademy.com/IV_Resource_Library/iv.b.4b.1_tennis_exs.html

Also Tennis One has an article by Donald Chu. " Who needs a rotator cuff". That has some good little videos of a model doing the excersises.
You've got to be a member though.

I'm curious what problems you are seeing with these students that started you thinking about shoulder strength. Is there alot of arm lag? Are you trying to get their strokes shorter?

Just to remind you, external rotation excersises probably won't increase internal rotator speed.
These excersises are very important, but only for the sake of injury prevention.

Also remember to use extreme caution with pre-adolescents. Their tissues are still very vulnerable so always error on the side of caution with them.
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Eric Matuszewski
03-21-2004, 03:53 AM
Another advantage on Theraband/Tubing as opposed to weights is that there is resistance throughout the full range of motion.

(Imaging the side lying bent elbow version here or the one sitting up). A person using a dumbell gets the full resistance on the external rotators for only the middle portion of the range of motion.

This is a big advantage to Theraband most people don't realize.

Yea, I know a rubber band doesn't look as macho, but it can do a better job. So use them.

Anonymous
03-21-2004, 05:56 AM
So, what kind of exercise do you reccommend using a band?
is it like a bench press with the band across your back and you move your arms forward?

Grimjack
03-21-2004, 07:14 AM
So, what kind of exercise do you reccommend using a band?
is it like a bench press with the band across your back and you move your arms forward?

With a little creativity, you can follow the link he gave to a number of illustrated, tennis-specific exercises. But, if you don't feel like thinking it through, simply go to...

Theraband Consumer Resources (http://www.thera-bandacademy.com/IV__Resource_Library/iv-b-4.html) ==> Click on "Go to Article" box under "Tennis" heading ==> And click on "Exercise Tips and Exercises for Tennis" link from there.

Enjoy.

Bungalo Bill
03-21-2004, 09:27 AM
Another advantage on Theraband/Tubing as opposed to weights is that there is resistance throughout the full range of motion.

(Imaging the side lying bent elbow version here or the one sitting up). A person using a dumbell gets the full resistance on the external rotators for only the middle portion of the range of motion.

This is a big advantage to Theraband most people don't realize.

Yea, I know a rubber band doesn't look as macho, but it can do a better job. So use them.

Yes, that makes sense since there is constant tension both positive and negative which provides a lot of gains in your muscle development. I think you provided what the Doctor ordered. I will use this along with a couple other balance/strength/flexibility exercises.

No I am not having a problem with any students (well not in a "problem" sense of the word). I am simply trying to reduce the length of time it takes on average to learn a professional level forehand. However, with educating this way, I need to have some resistance training going on to facilitate sound development. Obviously, some people will learn slower and others faster even in a different learning cycle. I am doing the same with the backhand and other strokes and I am getting very good results.

Eric I really appreciate your time to help me on this and the website addresses. thanks very much I will get more familiar with the Theraband and its properties and exercises. I really think that is the solution I have been looking for, it just makes so much sense to incorporate that kind of training. Thanks!

polakosaur
03-21-2004, 03:39 PM
the shoulder has both big muslces and little muscles, the same exercises you do with highed piund weights can also be done with little 1-2-3 pound weights, its targets the little muslces which are important for internal shoulder stability

VTL
03-21-2004, 08:46 PM
Anyone here use medicine balls?

Bungalo Bill
03-21-2004, 11:03 PM
Yes, I ue the medicine ball at times for warming up. I use it to simulate the groundstrokes. You loop back and down and as you start coming forward from one side you release and toss the ball to your partner. Then he does the same thing back to you. when you get the ball back you do the same thing but from the other side.

Rickson
02-27-2008, 06:58 AM
Dear Bill,

This is a very interesting question. Yes I'm certified by the American Council on Excercise.



I also have ACE, but I expired in 2000. I took the exam in 1998 at Columbia University. Didn't you find it strange that the exam had very little to do with training and much more to do with counseling?

Bungalo Bill
02-27-2008, 08:05 AM
I also have ACE, but I expired in 2000. I took the exam in 1998 at Columbia University. Didn't you find it strange that the exam had very little to do with training and much more to do with counseling?

Rickson! Posts from 2004? You bored? :)

sureshs
02-27-2008, 08:09 AM
I also have ACE, but I expired in 2000.

The first concrete proof of life after death.

Rickson
02-27-2008, 08:14 AM
Rickson! Posts from 2004? You bored? :)

How can I help you, Bill? Just returning the favor.

Bungalo Bill
02-27-2008, 08:52 AM
How can I help you, Bill? Just returning the favor.

Okay, I see. :)

jmverdugo
02-27-2008, 04:58 PM
Well, for what is worth, i find the information in this thread very, very interesting and im going to use some of the advise for my shoulders described here. Thanks for bringing it to the first page since i usually dont pass not even to the second page.

Rickson
02-27-2008, 05:08 PM
Well, for what is worth, i find the information in this thread very, very interesting and im going to use some of the advise for my shoulders described here. Thanks for bringing it to the first page since i usually dont pass not even to the second page.

Eric did say to go slow on eccentric contractions meaning the "negative" which I also believe. I definitely don't believe in slow concentric contractions however. That will get you nowhere in both the performance and developmental departments. If you believe that slow concentric or "positive" works well, try going up the stairs very slowly. That's right, it hardly does anything for you. Some people believe in super slow concentric, but trust me, super slow is for babies and senior citizens.