How good (NTRP) are B16s?

[johlhausen]

I was just wondering...let me break the question down a little.
The #1 16 year-old boy in any given section?
#25?
#50?
#100?
#150?

I'm about #150 and my coach says I'm probably a 3.5 or 4.0...but this should by no means be accepted as fact or anything. I also realize that different sections have more/less skilled players than the next. I'm in MO Valley if it means anything. Thanks in advance; I'll be checking back soon.

-johlhausen

[NebAce1]

in a regular section number one in B16's is probably anywhere from a 5.0 to a strong 5.0 to a strong 5.5. In sections like So. Cal and Florida number one in B16's is probably like at least a strong 5.5.

I may be wrong cause i dont know that much about NTRP, since I'm a junior, but I think that's about right. But either way juniors shouldn't really be rated by NTRP, and instead by their actual ranking.

[johlhausen]

in a regular section number one in B16's is probably anywhere from a 5.0 to a strong 5.0 to a strong 5.5. In sections like So. Cal and Florida number one in B16's is probably like at least a strong 5.5.

I may be wrong cause i dont know that much about NTRP, since I'm a junior, but I think that's about right. But either way juniors shouldn't really be rated by NTRP, and instead by their actual ranking.

Nebace: Thanks. I understand what you're saying here, but if I want to get a match with an adult, what NTRP should I be looking for? This is why I want to know.

Thanks again.

[soggyramen]

I was just wondering...let me break the question down a little.
The #1 16 year-old boy in any given section?
#25?
#50?
#100?
#150?

I'm about #150 and my coach says I'm probably a 3.5 or 4.0...but this should by no means be accepted as fact or anything. I also realize that different sections have more/less skilled players than the next. I'm in MO Valley if it means anything. Thanks in advance; I'll be checking back soon.

-johlhausen

in my state we have about 400 players and the 300-400 are anywhere from a 3.5-4.0. 299-150 would be from a strong 4.0-4.5 and 149-1 could be anywhere from a strong 4.5 to a 5.5

[johlhausen]

^^^Thanks. that's really helpful.

[islandtennis]

How large is your Section? If you were 150 in the Southern Section, I would think you would be a mid 4.0 to mid 4.5.

[tfm1973]

i've hit with a few juniors in the mid atlantic. my friend's son when he was 16 was probably very strong 4.0 to weak 4.5 player. ranked #80-90 in the mid atlantic. by Boys 18's he was probably a very strong 4.5 to weak 5.0 player.

interesting to note that in my estimation, B16s at the upper levels LOOK like solid 4.5-5.0 players with gorgeous strokes and fluid motion but they couple that with 3.0 strategy. there are a few exceptions of course, but many are mindless bashers.

[bluetrain4]

interesting to note that in my estimation, B16s at the upper levels LOOK like solid 4.5-5.0 players with gorgeous strokes and fluid motion but they couple that with 3.0 strategy. there are a few exceptions of course, but many are mindless bashers.

That observation really hits home. So many juniors I see fall into this category. The definitely know hot to hit the ball, they can run all day, but they can't construct points or strategize a match to save their lives.

Obviously, there are many that have moved beyond this stage, and others that will move beyond this stage in the future. But, some seem stuck at this stage.

Racket and string technology don't help since kids can now rip the ball and get massive spin at a young age regardless of physical maturity. As we all know, when you're a kid, that's fun, and ripping the ball is exciting because you get to look like the pros. There's no incentive or reason (seemingly) for them to strategize. Once they start losing, the better ones, who will go on to bigger things, usually get the picture.

[tfm1973]

bluetrain - absolutely. to some extent you could probably say the difference between a 5.5+ versus a 5.0 isn't so much their strokes but what's between their ears.

my friend's son was ranked 80-90's in the B16s. he used to hit with this one kid who was ranked 120-130 range. this kid had very average pace on the ball but solid on both wings. he could put that ball anywhere on the court at will but with that same average pace. certainly not fast by any means but he seemed to always be in the right spot and never in a rush. you could see him construct points shot by shot.

by B18s my friend's son was still 80-90's ranking. his hitting partner was top 10.

not sure though with boys and testosterone how you get through their thick head's that blasting shots on every stroke isn't the be all, end all.

[Kaptain Karl]

You probably won't get satisfaction -- or accuracy -- with your poll. There are too many variables at work.

I remember on Open tourney I played in Schenectady NY where "this skinny little 12 year-old" cruised to the Final. Some of his vanquished opponents were (literally) reduced to tears. It was amazing...!

He lost in the Final, but it was a close 3-setter. The stands were *packed* like I'd never seen them for a little Regional tournament.

Oh yeah ... the kid's name. Jimmy Arias.

Then you've got your rank beginner ... and everything in-between....
______________

Do you play on your local HS team? What number?

Have you played a "real" match against your father? What level is he and how do you do?

How many boys are in the MO Valley? (If you're #150 and there are 152 boys, we don't know much. If there are 600 boys, we know quite a bit more.)

I still say there are too many variables to answer your question.

- KK

[johlhausen]

You probably won't get satisfaction -- or accuracy -- with your poll. There are too many variables at work.

I remember on Open tourney I played in Schenectady NY where "this skinny little 12 year-old" cruised to the Final. Some of his vanquished opponents were (literally) reduced to tears. It was amazing...!

He lost in the Final, but it was a close 3-setter. The stands were *packed* like I'd never seen them for a little Regional tournament.

Oh yeah ... the kid's name. Jimmy Arias.

Then you've got your rank beginner ... and everything in-between....
______________

Do you play on your local HS team? What number?

Have you played a "real" match against your father? What level is he and how do you do?

How many boys are in the MO Valley? (If you're #150 and there are 152 boys, we don't know much. If there are 600 boys, we know quite a bit more.)

I still say there are too many variables to answer your question.

- KK

KK-
Thanks for helping me out here, first of all.
I am a freshman, so I have not played HS Tennis yet. I will play #3 or #2 varsity, probably.

I can beat my dad, who's a strong 3.5-weak 4.0, 6-2 in a set.

There are over 500 16 yr. old boys in MO Valley.

If you need any other info, please ask, unless you plan on stalking me :)
Thanks again.
-johlhausen

[Kaptain Karl]

KK-
Thanks for helping me out here, first of all.
I am a freshman, so I have not played HS Tennis yet. I will play #3 or #2 varsity, probably.

I can beat my dad, who's a strong 3.5-weak 4.0, 6-2 in a set.

There are over 500 16 yr. old boys in MO Valley.

If you need any other info, please ask, unless you plan on stalking me :)
Thanks again.
-johlhausenI still cannot answer your question. (It's simply too broad.)

I can tell you the "average" HS player, IMO, ranges from 3.5 to 4.5.

I cannot stalk you. I am a HS Coach, but we have very strict anti-recruiting rules. (But if your family might move to Colorado....)

- KK

[johlhausen]

I still cannot answer your question. (It's simply too broad.)

I can tell you the "average" HS player, IMO, ranges from 3.5 to 4.5.

I cannot stalk you. I am a HS Coach, but we have very strict anti-recruiting rules. (But if your family might move to Colorado....)

- KK

KK-
lol it's ok, but I don't think I'll be moving to Colorado anytime soon. But, anything's possible;)

I've got a narrow enough range to look for, I think. And most likely the best way to figure out your NTRP is to be rated by a pro. But for now, I've bypassed that step, and can start looking for guys to play. Thanks everyone.
-johlhausen

[wilsonplayer]

5.5 IMO is way too high...maybe the national top kids are 5.5. I'm a 5.0 17 year old and I havent seen anybody in my section (New England) for 16's who's top 10 that I would put in a 5.5 category. 18's are a different story...

[JMS]

5.5 IMO is way too high...maybe the national top kids are 5.5. I'm a 5.0 17 year old and I havent seen anybody in my section (New England) for 16's who's top 10 that I would put in a 5.5 category. 18's are a different story...

that's cause you're in New England

[NebAce1]

5.5 IMO is way too high...maybe the national top kids are 5.5. I'm a 5.0 17 year old and I havent seen anybody in my section (New England) for 16's who's top 10 that I would put in a 5.5 category. 18's are a different story...

New England is a really weak section. Also usually top kids in each section (1-5) are top kids nationally, so 5.5 could be accurate.

[JLyon]

How large is your Section? If you were 150 in the Southern Section, I would think you would be a mid 4.0 to mid 4.5.
That is about correct, I play consistently with a FY 16 who is around 120 in Southern and we play very close. Top 150 in Southern is easily 4.5+
Other sections touher to say.
The Top 25 though in every section would at least be 5.0 - 5.5

[JW10S]

Where I live the #1 16 & under player can easily beat a 5.0 adult.

[jjrl2004]

My friend is #2 in B16s in norcal and he is definitely above 5.0

[Babb]

3.5? What are these people thinking? Apparently because we're young, it means we suck at life.

[BounceHitBounceHit]

I play regularly with some of the top ranked HS boys in our region of the country, and would say the 16 year olds are strong 4.5's to 5.0's. By the time they hit 18, it's more like 5.0-5.5. The better 18 year olds are tough to beat. :) CC

[Alexio92]

I can't say for sure in america but when I do a conversion from the uk, the top few in the country are 5.0 to 5.5, from ranking 200 - 400 players are around 4.0 to 4.5.

Sorry if I got mixed up, I do not know NTRP rating system very well so I might have converted ratings slightly wrong.

[Babb]

That's pretty much correct.

[DrewRafter8]

I play regularly with some of the top ranked HS boys in our region of the country, and would say the 16 year olds are strong 4.5's to 5.0's. By the time they hit 18, it's more like 5.0-5.5. The better 18 year olds are tough to beat. :) CC

For NC I would agree with Craig. We're talking about the top 20 ranked in NC in USTA. Unfortunately, I would typically say that many High School players play at a mental level below their strokes. I think if you take a 5.0 high school senior and put him against a 5.0 adult (dependent on age), the adult will win b/c of strategy. Depends on age and on experiance, but that little wisdom that we seem to gain with age helps.

[BounceHitBounceHit]

For NC I would agree with Craig. We're talking about the top 20 ranked in NC in USTA. Unfortunately, I would typically say that many High School players play at a mental level below their strokes. I think if you take a 5.0 high school senior and put him against a 5.0 adult (dependent on age), the adult will win b/c of strategy. Depends on age and on experiance, but that little wisdom that we seem to gain with age helps.

Absolutely. They are faster, stronger, and (usually) in better shape. BUT they lack the patience, discipline, and tenacity that comes with age and LOTS of competition under pressure. ;) CC

[Hooooon]

for the most part you guys are over-rating mediocre juniors and under-rating top ones. in socal the top 5 16s players are 6.0+, 6-15 are 5.5-6.0, 16-50 are 5.0-5.5, 51-150 are 4.5-5.0, 151-300 are 4.0 and 301+ are 3.5 at best. in an average section no more than 40 16s players would be a 4.5+

[johlhausen]

I played with a 4.0 adult yesterday, and the matchup seemed right. I may have had prettier strokes than him, but his strategy was better than mine. He beat me. CC, you were right. Age (more of experience, actually) really helps with patience and especially shot selection. Thanks you hoon, CC, Drew Rafter, KK and others for your help.