PDA

View Full Version : Stats for 1990 FO Final (Gomez-Agassi)


Moose Malloy
01-04-2008, 05:09 PM
Score 6-3 2-6 6-4 6-4
Agassi was seeded 3, Gomez 4.

Gomez had 40 winners: 17 FH, 8 BH, 6 Volleys, 9 Overheads,
He had 10 aces, 3 doubles & 26 unreturned serves.
Had 5 return winners

Agassi had 21 winners: 10 FH, 7 BH, 2 Volleys, 2 Overheads
1 ace, 4 doubles, & 18 unreturned serves
0 return winners

Gomez was 26 of 41 at net
Agasi was 10 of 11

Gomez was 6 of 13 on breakpoints
Agassi 5 of 13(Agassi broke Gomez all 4 times he served in the 2nd)

As of 2-1 in the 4th(from NBC) Gomez had 50 winners, 60 unforced
Agassi 17 winners, 26 unforced

Stats show that Gomez was pretty much dictating play, which I agree with. He was taking a lot of chances, even S&V on crucial points in the 4th set.
Going into this match head to head was 2-2, with Agassi winning a close 3 setter in their last encounter.

Winners by set:

Gomez: 4, 8, 14, 14
Agassi: 2, 6, 4, 9

krosero
01-04-2008, 05:15 PM
I collected this stat in my recent research.

Washington Post: Gomez made 58 winners and 72 unforced errors.

Presumably the winners include aces and service winners.

Loved this match. I don't pay much attention to American success or lack of success, but it was nice to see an Ecuadorian win (that's where my family's from).

krosero
01-04-2008, 05:20 PM
Do you have the total number of points?

lambielspins
01-04-2008, 05:30 PM
Gomez was playing super agressive. Really taking charge.

superman1
01-04-2008, 11:24 PM
Looks like Agassi played really poorly. Very few winners for the hardest hitter back then. Was he making a lot of errors?

lambielspins
01-05-2008, 12:16 AM
The hardest hitter back then would have been either Lendl (who owned Agassi totally at that point) or Becker.

Richie Rich
01-05-2008, 04:32 AM
Looks like Agassi played really poorly. Very few winners for the hardest hitter back then. Was he making a lot of errors?

agassi didn't take the match seriously. it was at the beginning of his career when he was a punk

A.Davidson
01-05-2008, 04:35 AM
^^^

Very true - still, surprising that he couldn't at least push this to 5 sets.

Would've loved to see Agassi serve-and-volley in this match (and in his career a little more).

slice bh compliment
01-05-2008, 07:52 AM
I remember that match. I had always thought of Gomez as a steady baseliner with a massive FH who once pushed Jimmy Connors to five at like, the 80 or 81 US Open.

I think Gomez had gone deep in the Italian Open and or Monte Carlo in 90 and was probably peaking on clay even though he was not the best mover and had taken a stinging loss to Muster the month before.

Andre was favored, but not well-liked at that time. I think Rich's point was dead on.
Watched that final with a bunch of other college and satellite players. Seemed like we were all marvelling at Gomez' patient-yet-aggressive play that day. Almost all of us, except one Armenian dude and one FLA guy who was friends with Andre at Nick's were rooting for Go-Go. Man, that FH of his was heavy and deceptive. Wrongfooted Dre a lot that day. ALso some McEnroesque touch volleys.

Big congrats to Gomez. Thanks for reviving this match, Moose. Good times.

slice bh compliment
01-05-2008, 07:53 AM
The hardest hitter back then would have been either Lendl (who owned Agassi totally at that point) or Becker.

Yes, absolutely, but I would put Gomez' forehand up there with anyone's.

superman1
01-05-2008, 12:32 PM
The hardest hitter back then would have been either Lendl (who owned Agassi totally at that point) or Becker.

1986: Inside Tennis calls the newly minted frosted flake from Nick Bollettieri’s factory “a punishing punk with a fabulous forehand. “ Never mind any past probs with alcohol and marijuana, John McEnroe contends, “No one has ever hit that hard against me. The way he clocks his forehand — phenomenal.”

vandre
01-05-2008, 03:46 PM
thanks for the great post moose! i was just thinking about this match a couple days ago! pretty much the story i remember too!
i remember gomez beating the snot out of agassi and i was shocked! it seemed like gomez had the bigger forehand in that match.

lambielspins
01-05-2008, 05:41 PM
1986: Inside Tennis calls the newly minted frosted flake from Nick Bollettieri’s factory “a punishing punk with a fabulous forehand. “ Never mind any past probs with alcohol and marijuana, John McEnroe contends, “No one has ever hit that hard against me. The way he clocks his forehand — phenomenal.”

So you think that proves anything? Mauresmo once said after a tough match with young hard hitting Carolina Sprem back when she was a hot up and comer, that she had never played anyone who hit harder, even Davenport or the Williams. It is usual for a player to compliment an opponent after an impressive performance vs them, especialy a young one. I guess we can then conclude that Sprem must have been the hardest women hitter at the time.

Watch the multiple matches between Lendl and Agassi in 1988 and 1989 and you will see who was the harder hitter, and they had not changed that much in 1990 that it would be different yet. Becker was overall more powerful back then considering his serve and attacking game. Agassi was one of the hardest hitters but he was not THE hardest hitter at the time. Can you quote me one tennis expert other then McEnroe gushing over a young Agassi after one match who at the time suggested he was.

CEvertFan
01-05-2008, 06:53 PM
I remember that match and remember being surprised at how meekly Agassi was playing and how aggressively Gomez was playing. You could see that Gomez knew this was his one shot at winning a major and he defintely went for it and for the most part played inspired tennis that day. Agassi was totally in his "Image is Everything" phase which definitely hurt his early career.

federerfanatic
01-05-2008, 08:15 PM
Gomez admited he was nearing retirement and thinking of skipping the French Open, but when he heard Lendl was withdrawing he chose to enter. Lendl was his ultimate nemisis. His head to head with Lendl was 2-17. With all due respect to young Agassi, compared to running into the Lendl wall at his peak young Agassi probably seemed tame by comparision. That probably partialy explains his very agressive and fearless performance.

Moose Malloy
01-07-2008, 03:24 PM
Do you have the total number of points?

Agassi was 83 of 108 on 1st serves(77%)

Gomez was 77 of 131(59%)

krosero
01-07-2008, 03:38 PM
Agassi was 83 of 108 on 1st serves(77%)

Gomez was 77 of 131(59%)Gracias.
//////

CyBorg
01-07-2008, 06:43 PM
Again, Agassi may have hit harder than anyone else, but since when is hitting hard a recipe for greatness? From what we know Korolev hits harder than most top 10-ers.

superman1
01-07-2008, 11:38 PM
Yeah, you're right. Agassi was just another Korolev.

No, I get your point. The problem with him when he was young was that if he got into trouble during a match, instead of trying to out-think his opponent, he just hit the ball harder. He was a little bit guilty of this even when he was older and a far smarter player than anyone on tour. The 4th set of his US Open final with Federer was a good example. He saw the end nearing and realized he couldn't last much longer so he switched to Turbo Agassi mode and started smashing the ball as hard as he could. That was exactly what Fed wanted - hard, flat shots right in his wheelhouse.

CEvertFan
01-08-2008, 03:48 AM
Yeah, you're right. Agassi was just another Korolev.

No, I get your point. The problem with him when he was young was that if he got into trouble during a match, instead of trying to out-think his opponent, he just hit the ball harder. He was a little bit guilty of this even when he was older and a far smarter player than anyone on tour. The 4th set of his US Open final with Federer was a good example. He saw the end nearing and realized he couldn't last much longer so he switched to Turbo Agassi mode and started smashing the ball as hard as he could. That was exactly what Fed wanted - hard, flat shots right in his wheelhouse.

Another problem Agassi had with Federer was that he was one of the few players who could consistently take Agassi out of his comfort zone and make him try for too much or in Agassi's case, hit the ball as hard as he could. It would have been interesting to see Federer play a prime Agassi, not one in his mid 30s with a bad back. I still think Federer would have gotten the better of Agassi but it would have been much more of a struggle.

Tennis Sucks
01-08-2008, 11:29 AM
Superman, where'd you find the image in your avatar?

ohplease
01-08-2008, 11:40 AM
I remember that match.

To say Agassi didn't care at that point is completely incorrect. By 1990, he had made at least 3 or 4 grand slam semis, and had already been tagged as someone who might not be able to get over the hump. This was his first slam final - think he was willing to just flush it?

If anything, he probably wanted it too much, which made him under-perform. I think you saw similar performances from Rios against Korda in their Oz final, and Ferrero against Costa at the French. Arguably Roddick/Sampras at the Open, too - but there were other issues at play in that match beyond annointed (if scared) youngster vs. wily veteran in "what the heck" mode.

Moose Malloy
01-08-2008, 12:08 PM
One thing I forgot to mention, Agassi's serve had nothing on it in this match(nor did it in most of the matches I've seen from him from 88'-91'), he was just spinning it in.

However hard he did or did not hit off the ground back then, his serve was a joke compared to Gomez, Lendl, Becker, etc so they could really tee off on it if they were on(I mentioned in the OP that Gomez had 5 return winners & Agassi none) Agassi mentioned afterwards how big Gomez was serving(Gomez had 36 unreturned serves, Agassi 19)

This match seemed more like a hardcourt or indoor match to me than a typical claycourt match, most points involved only 4-5 shots(& ended with Gomez either making an error or making a winner) Match point(which was Gomez hitting a great forehand winner up the line off a deep Agassi return) perfectly summarizes the match. Gomez used his 'leftiness' to great advantage in this match, pulling Agassi way off the court in the ad court over & over again.

I think this match(then & now) is grossly overrated as being a 'huge' upset. Gomez had a fantastic claycourt season in '90, while Agassi hardly played on clay prior to the FO. And Gomez destroyed Muster in the semis prior to Agassi. Many were picking Muster to win the FO that year, I'm sure if he played Agassi in the final & won it would not have been considered an upset at all. I think the age difference was probably the main reason Agassi was so favored. Back then, the top players were even younger than they are now(just look at the age some of the 80s winners of slams) it was unheard of a 30+ player to win majors.

And it was funny to hear Gomez talk about Lendl with Bud Collins afterwards, he seriously said that when Lendl withdrew he felt that his chances of winning this event went up considerably. And he wished Lendl luck at Wimbledon.

here's some Gomez footage vs Sampras in Philadelphia earlier in 1990(I'm sure you would have gotten some crazy odds if you bet on both players winning majors by year's end at the time of this match)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MMYea60U-ys&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FO07i-kUo88&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c39NqP_YWW8

krosero
12-18-2009, 06:55 PM
Ocala Star-Banner:

Gomez piled up 58 winners and 72 unforced errors, compared to 24 and 27 for Agassi.

And Gomez was 30 years old, Agassi 20, so this goes with the 1970 USO final (Rosewall d. Roche) as another example of defeating someone ten years younger.

Datacipher
12-18-2009, 07:16 PM
Ocala Star-Banner:



And Gomez was 30 years old, Agassi 20, so this goes with the 1970 USO final (Rosewall d. Roche) as another example of defeating someone ten years younger.

Interesting to see Lambielspins (in an exchange with an Agassifanboy) saying exactly some of the things I was saying about Agassi and hard-hitting. He's astute. One other point I'll mention is that Gomez was smart. He once handed Courier his hat as well, and noted that Courier had one way to play, one way to win, trying to overpower the opponent. He felt he could match power when he chose, but also do other things. Gomez also was one of the players to give Agassi credit in 1990, when Agassi started the year playing much more strategic tennis! But apparently, he still had somethings to teach the youngsters.

Haven't watched the match in years, but yes, Agassi was nervous (not taking the match seriously?? oh brother....), and Gomez did a great job of NOT letting Agassi ever take charge or find a groove. When he hit hard, he made Agassi pay. When he played some finesse, he kept Agassi off-balance. Agassi never got the chance to start dictating play with his punishing groundstrokes. When a young Agassi could not simply overpower, controlling the center and running the opponent...when the opponent could absorb or prevent his power AND selectively fire back with as much or more....then Agassi got befuddled. Basically the game became a totally unfamiliar and uncomfortable one for him.

CyBorg
12-18-2009, 09:21 PM
One thing I forgot to mention, Agassi's serve had nothing on it in this match(nor did it in most of the matches I've seen from him from 88'-91'), he was just spinning it in.

Wig factor.

djones
12-20-2009, 01:25 AM
Wig factor.

According to Agassi himself, he won that day.
Not the match, but considering his wig didn't fall off, if was a 'win' for him.