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View Full Version : Impressed - BB 11


montx
01-10-2008, 06:00 PM
I recently came back into playing club level tennis. I must say I am enthused with my new racquet. My current set up is BB 11 with M:60 KLIP Legend Natural Gut 16 1/2 X:57 Luxilon ALU Power Rough 1/2

I found this to be a players racquet that offered stability and low swing weight and a good blend of control and power.

I recently came to this racquet from the Volkl 10 tour mp gen II because of similar stats.

I feel blessed to have the opportunity to play with this racquet because I think the specs and playability is just good.

I had very solid feel from groundstrokes and almost effortless volleys. My service was comfortable and overheads unhampered by the weight.

Somehow to me this racquet felt just slightly heavy but I had little trouble after two hours of play so I think if I am able to continue play I will grow into the little weight problem and fully adjust.

I agree with the people that say it does help your game, it has mine.

bagung
01-10-2008, 06:09 PM
which BB11 are you reffering to...? the BB11 18x20 or the 295g..?

montx
01-10-2008, 06:10 PM
the 12 oz 18x20

louis netman
01-10-2008, 08:20 PM
I had a similar positive experience with the BB11 standard demo. I had leather on it, plus my usual butt expansion (6gr) and although it was sweet on everything, with excellent spin potential (even for an 18x20), it was a tad too much SW for my aging & injured body to deal with over time. Would DEFINITELY consider this frame if I were a fit player in my 20s - 30's.

Just a little curious, of the players who are really considering this frame, please offer your age-range in your posts...

bagung
01-10-2008, 09:56 PM
i actually find the bb11 more "hollow" feel compare to my usual racquet.... i add lead on 2 and 10 oclock, and leather, now it feels much more solid...

montx
01-11-2008, 12:49 AM
The only problem i could find with it is the static weight which was a little cumbersome for me.

samster
01-11-2008, 07:35 AM
how much does your BB 11 weigh?

NoBadMojo
01-11-2008, 08:55 AM
I think this frame, along with the V1 are the two best racquets Volkl has ever come up with.

To make a flexible frame with 18mains have that sort of power, ease of spin and comfort is a great effort.

It's an old school type of frame with the juice.

TourTenor
01-11-2008, 11:02 AM
I like all the positives that I keep hearing about the BB11 standard however the question that comes up for many of us (NBMJ, Bagung, myself and it looks like the OP, as well) is "Can we swing it hard enough for long enough?" It seems that a number us get tired in the third hour of play (yeah, some of us are a bit older and we don't work out like we used to).

So, what is the swingweight of this stick? And, Bagung, you suggest adding a leather grip and lead ... what weight and swingweight do you get to?

Don't get me wrong I agree that a flexible frame with 18mains have that sort of power, ease of spin and comfort is a great effort. I wonder what the minimum static and swingweights are to make this happen? NBMJ, do you think that this racquet could not be any lower weight/swingweight to accomplish the power/spin/comfort combination you are talking about?

I really need to take this racquet out for a spin.

NoBadMojo
01-11-2008, 01:19 PM
I like all the positives that I keep hearing about the BB11 standard however the question that comes up for many of us (NBMJ, Bagung, myself and it looks like the OP, as well) is "Can we swing it hard enough for long enough?" It seems that a number us get tired in the third hour of play (yeah, some of us are a bit older and we don't work out like we used to).

So, what is the swingweight of this stick? And, Bagung, you suggest adding a leather grip and lead ... what weight and swingweight do you get to?

Don't get me wrong I agree that I wonder what the minimum static and swingweights are to make this happen? NBMJ, do you think that this racquet could not be any lower weight/swingweight to accomplish the power/spin/comfort combination you are talking about?

I really need to take this racquet out for a spin.

My GUESS is that if they lost some swingweight in this frame it would have anemic power as it is flexy and has a dense stringbed. I know they worked on this frame for several month getting the dnx material situated right, tweaking the weight distribution, drill pattern, etc. In spite of what many people seem to think, a lot of engineering and effort goes into making a new racquet sometimes.

I've been suggesting a 315swingweight, 16x19, slightly firmer 10series type racquet. I dont think the Gen2 worked out as the replacement for the c10 as intended and dont know how much longer they can make the c10. This would also serve as a replacement for the Gen1 lovers. They keep telling me that the market for frames like this is small and they're not going to add more sku's to it. Personally, I think it is better to come in slightly too light than slightly too heavy especially in a frame designed for a small market segment.

snoopy
01-11-2008, 01:45 PM
^^^

Looks like Head just released such a frame with the Head Prestige Pro.

It's 16x19 and has a 63 RDC flex measurement.

I'm really interested to see how it plays.

I'd love to see Volkl make something similar. The DNX 9 was a good effort but it's not a lot of fun to play. It's a good frame but not great.

TourTenor
01-11-2008, 01:46 PM
I've been suggesting a 315swingweight, 16x19, slightly firmer 10series type racquet. I dont think the Gen2 worked out as the replacement for the c10 as intended and dont know how much longer they can make the c10. This would also serve as a replacement for the Gen1 lovers. They keep telling me that the market for frames like this is small and they're not going to add more sku's to it. Personally, I think it is better to come in slightly too light than slightly too heavy especially in a frame designed for a small market segment.


Hear, hear ... NBMJ, I am with you on this. Seems that the lightest version that can keep all the attributes (power,spin,comfort) is the way to go. The market for the lighter version (vs. a heavier version with the same attributes) has to be a bigger one as people can customize to their own swingweight preferences. That said, the lighter version still has to have the same power, spin, and feel attributes, or I won't take a chance. I don't assume that I can customize and regain the necessary attributes I'm looking for.

I am still keeping my Gen 2's and DNX10 mids until I see something better. Maybe, just maybe ...

bagung
01-11-2008, 02:17 PM
TourTenor,
the std BB11 feel "hollow", and does not hit "heavy balls" as the dnx mid; by putting lead at 2 and 10 plus the leather, it feels more solid and it is still more easier to swing than the dnx mid. i can feel that when i practice on the BH volley for 20 minutes...i do not know the exact SW of the leaded BB11, but for sure it is less demanding than dnx mid..
nowaday, i still play singles with the dnx mid, and playing the leaded BB11 on doubles only..
in my opinion, the only thing that BB11 is better than dnx-10 mid is the volley..

bagung
01-11-2008, 02:29 PM
for the last 6 month, i have bought and traded racquets just to find the "less demanding racquets of dnx-10 mid" with no success. it is either they are too light or they feel hollow and do not have that "plow through"... among the racquets i have tried are, m-fil300, BB11 18x20, T10gen2, K-90, n-90, M pro 1 (no tolerence), vantage 2.2.1.1.6,LM prestige mid , and now trying the donnay pro one (TW version)...
i still end up using my dnx-mid as the main racquet..

NoBadMojo
01-11-2008, 03:15 PM
I have a lot of trouble understanding the sensation of a hollow feeling racquet. All racquets are hollow and therefore feel hollow because they are. Thicker beamed racquets feel more hollow because they are more hollow. The old Dunlop foam filled frame 200g? didnt feel so hollow because it was filled with foam? the nBlade seems less hollow because it is filled w. fun foam or whatever they call that stuff. Hollow just isnt a sensation i can differentiate..they're pretty much all hollow, so therefore they feel hollow

bagung
01-11-2008, 04:43 PM
maybe i should put it as " not as solid feel as"....??

samster
01-11-2008, 04:44 PM
bagung, I would think most frames are hollow compared to the DNX 10 Mid. THAT, is one solid stick.

bagung
01-11-2008, 04:49 PM
bagung, I would think most frames are hollow compared to the DNX 10 Mid. THAT, is one solid stick.

yes, after trying different sticks.... i really think so...

bad_call
01-11-2008, 07:18 PM
bagung - have u ever tried the C10? if so how did it compare to the DNX 10 Mid?

btw - apologies for hijacking this thread for the moment.

bagung
01-12-2008, 12:04 AM
bagung - have u ever tried the C10? if so how did it compare to the DNX 10 Mid?

btw - apologies for hijacking this thread for the moment.

i always want to try the C-10; as i heard so many good things about it...
lately, i have been no success on trying the 98 sq head, such as M pro1(no tolerence), T10gen2, dnx10MP,BB11 18x20; it makes me wonder that i do not like 98sq head size???? and prefer mid than the MP??? i suppose that is the main reason i have not buy and try the C-10....
sorry , can't help you..
maybe NBMJ and others can help you with it...

nickb
01-12-2008, 04:22 AM
for the last 6 month, i have bought and traded racquets just to find the "less demanding racquets of dnx-10 mid" with no success. it is either they are too light or they feel hollow and do not have that "plow through"... among the racquets i have tried are, m-fil300, BB11 18x20, T10gen2, K-90, n-90, M pro 1 (no tolerence), vantage 2.2.1.1.6,LM prestige mid , and now trying the donnay pro one (TW version)...
i still end up using my dnx-mid as the main racquet..

You really found the K90 and N90 to feel hollow when compared too the DNX10Mid???

Those are 2 very solid sticks...the K90 is the most solid stick ive ever used.

Nick

oti
01-12-2008, 05:08 AM
For years i've been looking for a replacement racquets for myself due to discontinuation of a great stick! I've tried alot(about(8 different main sticks in 5years), light, heavy, long, flex, stiff..etc, etc etc. I've been listening to NMBJ for a long time and others as well, battle for and against new sticks. The BB11 is worth fighting for, this is a racuet for the ages! To me, it has the perfect blend of old school with new tech. The 12oz thing, people, I'm 5'9"-165...can't you play w/ a 12oz?

But for the most important rule of them all.....STRINGS!
want more feel......strings
want more power.....strings
spin..........strings

as our boy Boris once said..."the racquet is the tool that holds my strings together" or something like that

NMBMJ, please keep up the great "reality check" posts!

slice bh compliment
01-12-2008, 05:18 AM
The BB 11 325g (the real one) is one of the finest frames ever.

Volkl's had its problems of late [I guess] but they've come up with something truly great this time.

Don't know how many professionals are using it (like that matters), but I think it's a great stick for a wide variety of players: baseliners, serve&volleyers, different levels, college players.

Truly a RILF.
Bravo Volkl.

Oh, and re: NBMJ's post about the hollow feel, yeah definitely, everything feels hollow when you've come from a wooden racquet and the Dunlop Max 200g. But IMHO this frame, like the old C10 pro and comp feels much less hollow than anything else out there.

EDIT: The Wilson Pro Staff / n / k / 90s do not feel hollow to me, but they feel stiff like braided frames often can feel.
The old WIlson 4.3 Hyper Hammer felt incredibly hollow even though it was foam filled.

bagung
01-12-2008, 05:26 AM
You really found the K90 and N90 to feel hollow when compared too the DNX10Mid???

Those are 2 very solid sticks...the K90 is the most solid stick ive ever used.

Nick

no, i did not find the k-90 and n-90m "hollow"...
i was saying that i am looking for "less demanding " dnx-10mid, and the k-90 and n-90 certainly was not less demanding the the dnx mid

bad_call
01-12-2008, 06:03 AM
The BB 11 325g (the real one) is one of the finest frames ever.

Volkl's had its problems of late [I guess] but they've come up with something truly great this time.

Don't know how many professionals are using it (like that matters), but I think it's a great stick for a wide variety of players: baseliners, serve&volleyers, different levels, college players.

Truly a RILF.
Bravo Volkl.

Oh, and re: NBMJ's post about the hollow feel, yeah definitely, everything feels hollow when you've come from a wooden racquet and the Dunlop Max 200g. But IMHO this frame, like the old C10 pro and comp feels much less hollow than anything else out there.

EDIT: The Wilson Pro Staff / n / k / 90s do not feel hollow to me, but they feel stiff like braided frames often can feel.
The old WIlson 4.3 Hyper Hammer felt incredibly hollow even though it was foam filled.

slice bh compliment - so do u own/play with the BB11? if so does the higher swing weight affect your game especially during longer matches?

slice bh compliment
01-12-2008, 08:08 AM
slice bh compliment - so do u own/play with the BB11? if so does the higher swing weight affect your game especially during longer matches?

Yes. I love it. The longer the better.

I feel it's an easier racquet to play with than my old Volkl C 10 pros, my DNX 10 midplus, my DNX 10 mid, my Dunlop Aerogel 200.

Tons of power, great touch, comfortable, very maneuverable. Just an all around mensch of a frame.

samster
01-12-2008, 08:17 AM
slice bh, do you feel the BB11 is better than the DNX 10 MP? I like the DNX 10 MP a lot but it gave me tennis elbow.

montx
01-12-2008, 08:54 AM
My BB weighs between 11.7 and 12 ounces, however, I only found the weight little high because, i just played a little tennis recently.

NoBadMojo
01-12-2008, 09:02 AM
slice bh, do you feel the BB11 is better than the DNX 10 MP? I like the DNX 10 MP a lot but it gave me tennis elbow.

How tightly was this racquet strung and with what string? The DNX10MP is a flexy comfortable racquet with a handle dampening system. dense stringbeds can feel boardy with the wrong stringjob for sure. if you have TE, I would mostly avoid all dense stringbeds....there's many good choices out there which arent dense stringbeds. dont know your playing level, but this is a 4.5 and up type of frame

samster
01-12-2008, 09:20 AM
How tightly was this racquet strung and with what string? The DNX10MP is a flexy comfortable racquet with a handle dampening system. dense stringbeds can feel boardy with the wrong stringjob for sure. if you have TE, I would mostly avoid all dense stringbeds....there's many good choices out there which arent dense stringbeds. dont know your playing level, but this is a 4.5 and up type of frame

Thanks NBMJ. The DNX 10 MP was strung with Excellerator 18 at 53/54 lbs. It was not my usual grip size. I usually use 4 5/8 but it was 4 1/2. I am probably a 4.0 NTRP. I want to like the DNX 10 MP because I was hitting real well with the racket.

I ordered a Becker 11 in 4 5/8 grip today and should get it in a few days. I will let everyone know how it goes. Becker 11 is 61 RDC vs DNX 10 MP 63 RDC. I hope with the right grip size and softer flex this would help. I will also string it at 52 lbs with Legend 17. Or would you recommend go 50 lbs?

The TW SW of 337 worries me but what the heck...I will try it and see for myself.

samster
01-12-2008, 09:29 AM
NBMJ, also do you think the MOJO hybrid is better than straight Legend setup?

NoBadMojo
01-12-2008, 09:50 AM
NMBMJ, please keep up the great "reality check" posts!

Thanks..i'll keep on keepin' on if it helps some people.

Thanks NBMJ. The DNX 10 MP was strung with Excellerator 18 at 53/54 lbs. It was not my usual grip size. I usually use 4 5/8 but it was 4 1/2. I am probably a 4.0 NTRP. I want to like the DNX 10 MP because I was hitting real well with the racket.

I ordered a Becker 11 in 4 5/8 grip today and should get it in a few days. I will let everyone know how it goes. Becker 11 is 61 RDC vs DNX 10 MP 63 RDC. I hope with the right grip size and softer flex this would help. I will also string it at 52 lbs with Legend 17. Or would you recommend go 50 lbs?

The TW SW of 337 worries me but what the heck...I will try it and see for myself.

NBMJ, also do you think the MOJO hybrid is better than straight Legend setup?

well doesnt sound like it's the string or tension provided the 52 or whatever was an actual 52.

i would ignore the 337 swingweight posted by TW. this racquet doesnt swing anything like that. i was a hair away from switching to it and my max swingweight is 320..it was only very marginally too hard for me to swing fast. maybe that will give you some reference point. It does swing slightly heavier/swings less headlight than the dnx10mp even though i think the specs might be really similar

perhaps TW measured early/pre production b11's. sometimes the first ones from 10series type frames come in on the heavy side.

NoBadMojo
01-12-2008, 09:56 AM
NBMJ, also do you think the MOJO hybrid is better than straight Legend setup?

I really think so. cant think of anything it does less well and it lasts longer, strings dont require adjustment, you get a bit of the poly type spin, less expensive, etc.

bad_call
01-12-2008, 04:52 PM
...i would ignore the 337 swingweight posted by TW. this racquet doesnt swing anything like that. i was a hair away from switching to it and my max swingweight is 320..it was only very marginally too hard for me to swing fast. maybe that will give you some reference point. It does swing slightly heavier/swings less headlight than the dnx10mp even though i think the specs might be really similar

perhaps TW measured early/pre production b11's. sometimes the first ones from 10series type frames come in on the heavy side.

thanks for that info. if the actual swing weight is nearer the C10 but has more pop than the C10 then i could be interested in giving this one a hit.

jcstennis
01-13-2008, 05:58 AM
demoing a BB11 this weekend... yesterday, did some serving drills. what a way to start out demoing! the BB11 is impressive! i was skeptical about the string pattern- i usually play a more open pattern - but so far all seems fine... i will have a full hit/session today with the BB11...

i put the demo on a simple scale and it weighs 330-332gs... does that sound right?

has anyone put leather on for a grip? how does it feel/play?

slice bh compliment
01-13-2008, 11:43 AM
slice bh, do you feel the BB11 is better than the DNX 10 MP? I like the DNX 10 MP a lot but it gave me tennis elbow.

demoing a BB11 this weekend... yesterday, did some serving drills. what a way to start out demoing! the BB11 is impressive! i was skeptical about the string pattern- i usually play a more open pattern - but so far all seems fine... i will have a full hit/session today with the BB11...

i put the demo on a simple scale and it weighs 330-332gs... does that sound right?

has anyone put leather on for a grip? how does it feel/play?

Samster, like mojo said, a Volkl is not very likely to cause elbow pain. Maybe better / looser strings? Different technique? Bigger/softer grip?

jcs, yeah that sounds right. Mine is more due to a larger pallet and leather with a Wilson pro overgrip. Nice. So stable, comfortable, powerful and maneuverable, too. I used to prefer an open pattern (c 10 comp...c 10 pro), but I prefer this now.

Hope you like it as much as I do.

jcstennis
01-13-2008, 12:03 PM
slice...
just played 2 sets with it... i usually play with leather and an overgrip too, i think i would like the BB11 with that set-up. this stick just felt right, it felt like it was made to play...well, tennis! not just a one-trick pony! the demo i played was strung with PSGD 16... not my cup of tea, but still gave good response and a good idea of how this stick plays. the grip shape, to me, did not seem/feel completely Volkl (i'm not a Volkl guy, never owned one)... it felt nice. i agree, this stick is stable, comfy amd moves very well-actually really well! i like the sound it makes... off center shots have a slight 'pling' sound...more like a 'pluck' sound, but the sweet spot sounds great... a very distinguishable 'wahhmp'! plus, the sweet spot has great feel, it really cups the ball well and is well defined,(i usually play 16/18 or 16/20 pattern racquets... and wasn't sure what to expect with this pattern)...access to spin was there, for me i had to put a little extra effort into it for topspin, my 1HBH loves this stick (slice or topspin and especially plough through feel...my god, it was nice) my 1HFH loved return of serve and swinging with a semi-western or conti grip with big follow through, you can really swing through the ball with this racquet, no need for a lot of set up time. all-in-all i feel that this racquet is very well made. at first glance i was a little worried looking at the string bed, 18/20 man it looked like so much more than my other sticks, but that went away once you feel the 'feel' of this racquet. i'm impressed (who cares!! ;) ) probably will demo again (to make sure) and think about stringing options.

NoBadMojo
01-13-2008, 02:08 PM
slice...
just played 2 sets with it... i usually play with leather and an overgrip too, i think i would like the BB11 with that set-up. this stick just felt right, it felt like it was made to play...well, tennis! not just a one-trick pony! the demo i played was strung with PSGD 16... not my cup of tea, but still gave good response and a good idea of how this stick plays. the grip shape, to me, did not seem/feel completely Volkl (i'm not a Volkl guy, never owned one)... it felt nice. i agree, this stick is stable, comfy amd moves very well-actually really well! i like the sound it makes... off center shots have a slight 'pling' sound...more like a 'pluck' sound, but the sweet spot sounds great... a very distinguishable 'wahhmp'! plus, the sweet spot has great feel, it really cups the ball well and is well defined,(i usually play 16/18 or 16/20 pattern racquets... and wasn't sure what to expect with this pattern)...access to spin was there, for me i had to put a little extra effort into it for topspin, my 1HBH loves this stick (slice or topspin and especially plough through feel...my god, it was nice) my 1HFH loved return of serve and swinging with a semi-western or conti grip with big follow through, you can really swing through the ball with this racquet, no need for a lot of set up time. all-in-all i feel that this racquet is very well made. at first glance i was a little worried looking at the string bed, 18/20 man it looked like so much more than my other sticks, but that went away once you feel the 'feel' of this racquet. i'm impressed (who cares!! ;) ) probably will demo again (to make sure) and think about stringing options.

this frame spins the ball like some sort of hybrid between a 16mains and 18mains frame i think. it's not a tytpical 18mains drill pattern as it's not that hard to spin, but it also hits a more penetrating less loopy groundstroke than a 16m's frame.

jcstennis
01-13-2008, 02:12 PM
well put...

one of the reasons i noted that 'it looks like there is more string' in this racquet is the mains really are strung close to the outer edge, the spacing does not look all that dense, just spread out - sort of ;)

slice bh compliment
01-13-2008, 04:54 PM
Man, wait until you get one -- put leather on and gut mains with a good poly in the crosses. Wow.

montx
01-13-2008, 05:35 PM
Yes, this racquet has made me say to myself, i didn't know i can play tennis.

Sure my technique is OK, but it really took my level one notch up.

NoBadMojo
01-14-2008, 09:39 AM
I want to thank you guys for this thread. I switched to the Becker11Lights with some lead, but have been missing the 11Standard that I was playing with before. I was still a little fast with the 11Lights even with the lead, but when I added more lead, the racquets just didnt feel right to me. maybe this is my first and last lead project ;) or if a next time for lead, think i will take them to a professional.
So this thread triggered me bringing out the 11Standards this morning and I really hit well <for me> with them. cant rem the last time I had 4 aces in a row, but thats' what I had this day..all up the T-Bone. more penetrating less spinny from the backcourt, which really is what i need as i tend to hit with too much spin at times
I still think the b11Light is a nice frame..it's very solid for it's lightweight, especially compared to the other frames out there with similar specs
Thanks guys!

jcstennis
01-14-2008, 10:02 AM
Man, wait until you get one -- put leather on and gut mains with a good poly in the crosses. Wow.

it's at the top of my list right now... i think i may go for it! if i do, i think i will put leather on, but i was thinking poly main for me... or maybe a poly fj. well if i get more than one BB11, i will try your set up! :)

jcstennis
01-14-2008, 10:10 AM
I want to thank you guys for this thread. I switched to the Becker11Lights with some lead, but have been missing the 11Standard that I was playing with before. I was still a little fast with the 11Lights even with the lead, but when I added more lead, the racquets just didnt feel right to me. maybe this is my first and last lead project ;) or if a next time for lead, think i will take them to a professional.
So this thread triggered me bringing out the 11Standards this morning and I really hit well <for me> with them. cant rem the last time I had 4 aces in a row, but thats' what I had this day..all up the T-Bone. more penetrating less spinny from the backcourt, which really is what i need as i tend to hit with too much spin at times
I still think the b11Light is a nice frame..it's very solid for it's lightweight, especially compared to the other frames out there with similar specs
Thanks guys!

you have been a great help too!!! good to see that you like playing the Std again...4 aces in a row is always nice! (by the way were you playing James Blake???)

quick question... i have never played a Volkl racquet, just picked 'em up. the BB11's grip feels different from, say the, DNX9... i like the grip shape (coming from playing recently Babolats and Wilsons before that)... has that been a positive coming from playing Volkls? i think the BB11 grip shape works well with the racquet.

NoBadMojo
01-14-2008, 10:25 AM
you have been a great help too!!! good to see that you like playing the Std again...4 aces in a row is always nice! (by the way were you playing James Blake???)

quick question... i have never played a Volkl racquet, just picked 'em up. the BB11's grip feels different from, say the, DNX9... i like the grip shape (coming from playing recently Babolats and Wilsons before that)... has that been a positive coming from playing Volkls? i think the BB11 grip shape works well with the racquet.


naah..i was playing some old lady ;) the Becker frames use a slightly less oblong grip pallet than the Volkl frames, but stil are more oblong that the babs and Wilsons you mention. not sure what your question is, but i think the more oblong grips lend themselves best to more neutral/less severe grips. it really is very easy to change the grip shape of Volkl/becker racquets while perfectly preserving the bevels..i too like them just plain stock with leather and overgrip...they feel so natural on the serve and the volley (continental grip) but i could get used to any reasonable grip shape

hoosierbr
01-14-2008, 11:32 AM
cant rem the last time I had 4 aces in a row, but thats' what I had this day..all up the T-Bone. more penetrating less spinny from the backcourt, which really is what i need as i tend to hit with too much spin at times

Never felt the desire to try the BB11 but I think I will now. I've never in my life hit four aces in a row. Then again I've never intentionally tried too. I hit kickers and slices in the corners, sometimes in the body, to get in quick behind.

Maybe I'm missing out here?:)

jcstennis
01-14-2008, 11:32 AM
i found an Eastern grip for serving a good fit with the BB11, plus the Conti...

i guess there was really no question :-? i have always heard the Volkl, like Head grip shapes is a love 'em, hate 'em thing. i was happy to find the BB grip to be somewhat of a mellow version of the Babolat shape... it's shaped very well (for my tastes)...

hey, take it easy on the old ladies!! jeez! ;-)

TourTenor
01-14-2008, 11:46 AM
I have the BB11 standard on a demo program (actually my wife is looking for a new racquet and I added this one to her stack of sticks so I could try it). I have been reading mostly great things about this racquet but I was skeptical as I like the open string pattern of the 16X19s. I have been looking for something that plays like the DNX10mid but lets me swing 'consistently big' after 2 hours.

The result ... I am extremely and pleasantly surprised. I didn't have any problem putting the spin I wanted on the ball. My groundstrokes were good and deep, nice movement on the ball. Volleys ... I think this is the best volleying stick I have ever played with (and I have played with some great volleying Volkl sticks). Serves ... No problems with any of my serves, speed, spins, etc. I could really move my serves around with excellent control. Overheads ... has great 'put away' power and is one of the best for precise location.

To sum up my impressions ... 'me likey' this stick. It has big pop, excellent touch, allows whip, while offering great racquet head control. And, yes, I could swing this one for hours at a time. In fact, I am surprised that the racquet's swingweight is so low (way lower than TW 337). Feels a tad lower than my Gen 2's. That of course, has positives and negatives ... I need to test it more to see how the racquet holds up returning big serves. Also, I need to test it more for response on half volleys that are picked out of the air. I don't think that it is quite as sturdy as my DNX10 mids on the half volley. Other than those questions, I am extremely impressed.

My wife who has also played for many years tried this one and with its swingweight was able to make it do all sorts of things that she can't always do ... she showed a much more aggressive style that she doesn't often exhibit. She volleyed with this stick like no other stick she has had. When we had stopped playing, she couldn't stop talking about how great this racquet feels. Very unusual for her.

Anyway, so much for our first impressions. We are both going to keep demoing this one, but so far ....

NoBadMojo
01-14-2008, 12:54 PM
Never felt the desire to try the BB11 but I think I will now. I've never in my life hit four aces in a row. Then again I've never intentionally tried too. I hit kickers and slices in the corners, sometimes in the body, to get in quick behind.

Maybe I'm missing out here?:)

guess you dont play old ladies then...i've found they're not that hard to ace......i like to mix it up, but it is easier for me to serve to the T-Bone with a racquet I havent been playing. Those short angles out wide take me a long time to get right with a new frame. I like to hit a topsin serve to get a short angle out wide because that has more ballspeed, but a flatty up the middle that slides away.
so you play the edberg/rafter style.
today was my reg monday 5.0 hit..if i can get some aces on the dirt against a good player, then i like to think i'm doing ok with the gear.
the b11 may not be right for your particular game, but i would be surprised if you didnt come away impressed.

bad_call
01-14-2008, 12:56 PM
after reading the posts here, it appears that the BB11 standard is close to the level of the T10V mid...only in a mid+ size.

jcstennis
01-14-2008, 01:26 PM
how does the Volkl 10 Tour MP Gen II play versus the BB11?

PROTENNIS63
01-14-2008, 01:43 PM
I think this frame, along with the V1 are the two best racquets Volkl has ever come up with.

To make a flexible frame with 18mains have that sort of power, ease of spin and comfort is a great effort.

It's an old school type of frame with the juice.

I agree with you. I have switched from the K-Factor Six-One to BB11 and so far am liking it.

TourTenor
01-14-2008, 01:57 PM
JCS ...
I have spent a lot of time with the Gen 2 (3+ years) and not enough with the BB11S.

Anyway, here are some of my thoughts when comparing these two ...

Both are great "all-around sticks"
BB11 has more pop on the serve
Both are great volley sticks (edge to BB11)
Both allow good racquet head speed
BB11 slightly heavier ball on groundstrokes and serves
Both generate good power on the groundstrokes
Gen 2 is slightly sturdier (I am going to play more with the BB11 to test this more)
Both racquets are excellent for all around maneuverability
Both are extremely comfortable (slight edge to Gen 2)
Both have generous sweetspots (maybe the string spacing on the 18X20 frame helps?)
BB11 is easier to take command of an overhead (pop and precision)Hopefully, I will likely play twice more this week with the BB11 and hope to re-confirm my initial findings and perhaps add a few more ...

NoBadMojo
01-14-2008, 02:00 PM
after reading the posts here, it appears that the BB11 standard is close to the level of the T10V mid...only in a mid+ size.

the bb11 is levels beyond the t10v mid performencewise. it's got more inherent power and the sweetzone is much broader. the advantage the veMid may have for some is that it is a bit easier to swing fast but that is simply a matter of specs. the veMid is an ok frame in comparison. but your statement is very subjective. i'll explain why in my next post.

NoBadMojo
01-14-2008, 02:13 PM
how does the Volkl 10 Tour MP Gen II play versus the BB11?

Here's something relevant and practical for consideration.

A lesson shows up. husband and wife. she was really hot looking and he was being a real wad and they were fighting....i hate when that happens so i said something to try and break the mood..anyway, they are both swinging Gen2's. She's a little better than him. she's in the high 4.0 low 4.5 range.

They notice I am teaching with the Becker11 standard that day and they want to hit with it. Neither one could make this racquet work as well as their Gen2's. they had trouble flush hitting it, spinning it, and getting any power out of it. Me? I'm a 5.0 and I get lots more power out of it than the Gen2, flush hit it well, and have no trouble spinning the ball. so when you read racquet advice around here, i think it important to consider the level of play of the person giving the advice along with other factors which i wont get into.

To complete the story, since they were Volkl lovers and interested in the gear, I gave them a DNX9 to hit feeling sure they could make that one work even better than their Gen2's...they both could, but both declared they could never switch to it???? purists......

end

TourTenor
01-14-2008, 02:37 PM
NoBad ...
Not sure where you were going with that last post but one could read that if you are a Gen 2 user that you will have trouble handling the BB11S. I wouldn't disuade JCS from demoing the BB11S ... as I can assure you that both my wife and I found exactly the opposite case ... the BB11S is much easier to swing.
best,
TT

NoBadMojo
01-14-2008, 02:42 PM
I agree with you. I have switched from the K-Factor Six-One to BB11 and so far am liking it.

yo...which k6.1 did you switch from and can you compare the two?

hoosierbr
01-14-2008, 02:54 PM
the b11 may not be right for your particular game, but i would be surprised if you didnt come away impressed.

I'll take it for a demo when the new Speedport White becomes available.

If I can kick my serves to shoulder height and slice players off the court then I can make the racquet work provided it's not too heavy. In my game the serve is the most important shot and finding a racquet I can consistently hit my kind of serves well with proved to be harder than I thought. Some racquets were great everywhere else, like the DNX 9, except on the serve. Maddening. The Warrior isn't the best off the ground I've had but it does it for me on serve and is, I think, the best volleying racquet I've had. Could use more weight, like the PR Ti, but I came along this line of racquets too late for that one. The Speedport Tour is nice though.

I dig Volkl and maybe a BB11 w/16 mains could do the trick. The standard would probably improve my flat serve and as I hit a flattish ball anyway off the ground would be sweet there as well.

NoBadMojo
01-14-2008, 02:55 PM
NoBad ...
Not sure where you were going with that last post but one could read that if you are a Gen 2 user that you will have trouble handling the BB11S. I wouldn't disuade JCS from demoing the BB11S ... as I can assure you that both my wife and I found exactly the opposite case ... the BB11S is much easier to swing.
best,
TT

i would disagree about the swingweight, and i'm not dissuading anyone in particular...i was just passing along a real world experience involving 3 players. but what colour is the MidPlus decal on the tip of your Gen2's? that could explain the swingweight. i do think that peoples perspectives of racquets differ due to ability levels, and the source of the review should be considered. . it also depends on what you mean by 'handling' a racquet as that term has multiple connotations

NoBadMojo
01-14-2008, 03:14 PM
I'll take it for a demo when the new Speedport White becomes available.

If I can kick my serves to shoulder height and slice players off the court then I can make the racquet work provided it's not too heavy. In my game the serve is the most important shot and finding a racquet I can consistently hit my kind of serves well with proved to be harder than I thought. Some racquets were great everywhere else, like the DNX 9, except on the serve. Maddening. The Warrior isn't the best off the ground I've had but it does it for me on serve and is, I think, the best volleying racquet I've had. Could use more weight, like the PR Ti, but I came along this line of racquets too late for that one. The Speedport Tour is nice though.

I dig Volkl and maybe a BB11 w/16 mains could do the trick. The standard would probably improve my flat serve and as I hit a flattish ball anyway off the ground would be sweet there as well.

hey Randy,
I think that is good advice for the forum....find a racquet that best supports your biggest strength if you have one, but that is good at everything and work on both your strengths and weaknesses. i can see how you would like the Warrior since you kick your serve and no question it volleys well. I think the problem from the backcourt is the lack of mass and the spinny stringbed...the ball just doesnt do much after the bounce...lead would help, but then you wouldnt spin the ball as well on the serve? it's all tradeoffs dont you think? dont let the 18m's of the B11 steer you away...it really isnt hard to spin. have you hit the Speedport Tour? that one seems up your alley?

TourTenor
01-14-2008, 03:26 PM
My Gen 2's are in the shop getting restrung, but I think they have the red sticker on them. Correct me if I am wrong but I think the original Gen 2 batch had the black stickers.

I was impressed by how easy the BB11S swings. I even double checked that I didn't have the light model (I also realize the color scheme is different between the two). I agree with you that different peoples perceptions can vary due to ability levels. I could also see that your story about the Gen 2 couple could have just as well been the K-factor couple. I am surprised they couldn't flush hit the ball and impart some very decent top spin. I have played with many dozens of racquets over the past years and am very picky about my swingweight. I know my desired SW of 315-320 based on experience with a variety of sticks. The BB11S that I have is certainly near the low end of this scale. With that said, I still feel like this racquet has nearly all the attributes I am looking for.

My feeling is that anyone that plays with the Gen 2 that knows how to put good strokes on the ball (with proper techniques) will enjoy hitting with the BB11 standard.

Chauvalito
01-14-2008, 03:28 PM
From what I have read the B11 is a solid stick that will work well in the ands of a good player. I have been playing with the Volkl C7 as of late, both the black and red versions and have not found anything else that I prefer despite buying other rackets (k95 18x20, RD ti-70, m-fil 200 2006 etc.)

That said, i ordered two brand new C7's from Japan which i think got lost in the mail during the Holidays...I am quite mad, they left Tokyo on the 28th, and are still not here yet and I paid for express shipping. I cant bear the thought of two brand new rare C7's sitting somewhere in a box going unused.

Anyway, I need something close to the C7, because other 18x20 rackets I have tried are not working. If anyone can compare these 2 rackets, I would appreciate it. I think i have asked this question before, but I cant remember which thread it was in.

The specs between the 2 are quite similar, the B11 has a thinner beam by 1 mm, and has the DNX material in the frame as well. From what I have read, it sounds like I will be getting more pop from a B11 compared to a C7, which is good, because I had the C7 leaded at 3, 9, and 12.

hoosierbr
01-14-2008, 03:30 PM
hey Randy,
I think that is good advice for the forum....find a racquet that best supports your biggest strength if you have one, but that is good at everything and work on both your strengths and weaknesses. i can see how you would like the Warrior since you kick your serve and no question it volleys well. I think the problem from the backcourt is the lack of mass and the spinny stringbed...the ball just doesnt do much after the bounce...lead would help, but then you wouldnt spin the ball as well on the serve? it's all tradeoffs dont you think? dont let the 18m's of the B11 steer you away...it really isnt hard to spin. have you hit the Speedport Tour? that one seems up your alley?

You're right on about the Warrior's weakness off the ground - 320 g or so and a 16x20 stringbed, added to that I use VS Team at 53 lbs and hit with an eastern grip on both sides. Can get tricky to control sometimes when you're having to play defense. Don't do much w/lead but am going to put a leather grip on this year and see. Problem is too much added weight has its pitfalls as well and can take away from what the racquet does best to start off with. I think the Warrior was designed to play best in stock form, not as a platform racquet.

The Speedport Tour was really nice, only thing w/the O and Speedport racquets is feel suffers and control is suspect at times b/c balls can catapult off the stringbed for no reason. Had the same issue w/the V-Engines.

Will try the BB11 for sure.

Andy K
01-14-2008, 03:40 PM
I've been playing Volkl frames for the last 10 years ever since I developed a bad case of the "elbow." The soft feel saved me as well as different strings. I've used the Tour 8 V-Engine for the past 3 years and now looking for a replacement...the new Becker models don't have the same specs, etc. and I've tried Babolat, Prince, Head but nothing is close to the great feel of the Tour 8. Any recommendations to demo? Thanks.

TourTenor
01-14-2008, 04:04 PM
Andy ... Try searching for the thread on the upcoming (in US) Becker Professional. Apparently the latest Becker offerings have made the racquets with the DNX material more comfortable than before. I think I read that the Becker Professional is the successor to the DNX8.

bad_call
01-14-2008, 04:05 PM
the bb11 is levels beyond the t10v mid performencewise. it's got more inherent power and the sweetzone is much broader. the advantage the veMid may have for some is that it is a bit easier to swing fast but that is simply a matter of specs. the veMid is an ok frame in comparison. but your statement is very subjective. i'll explain why in my next post.

i read your next post so i see the subjective part in the quarreling couple. however if the veMid is an ok frame then i really gotta try out the bb11. fast swinging is only one aspect of the veMid...cause in the right hands, it can really jump and jive...so to speak.

NoBadMojo
01-14-2008, 04:23 PM
My Gen 2's are in the shop getting restrung, but I think they have the red sticker on them. Correct me if I am wrong but I think the original Gen 2 batch had the black stickers.

I was impressed by how easy the BB11S swings. I even double checked that I didn't have the light model (I also realize the color scheme is different between the two). I agree with you that different peoples perceptions can vary due to ability levels. I could also see that your story about the Gen 2 couple could have just as well been the K-factor couple. I am surprised they couldn't flush hit the ball and impart some very decent top spin. I have played with many dozens of racquets over the past years and am very picky about my swingweight. I know my desired SW of 315-320 based on experience with a variety of sticks. The BB11S that I have is certainly near the low end of this scale. With that said, I still feel like this racquet has nearly all the attributes I am looking for.

My feeling is that anyone that plays with the Gen 2 that knows how to put good strokes on the ball (with proper techniques) will enjoy hitting with the BB11 standard.

That would explain the swingweight. The ones with the red 'MidPlus' were the earlier ones and those were significantly more sluggish than the ones that came after which had 'MidPlus' in black. The swingweight of the Gen2 is 315


The Speedport Tour was really nice, only thing w/the O and Speedport racquets is feel suffers and control is suspect at times b/c balls can catapult off the stringbed for no reason. Had the same issue w/the V-Engines.

Will try the BB11 for sure.

Think those flier balls come as a result of hitting a little lower in the stringbed than you normally like to...this seems to happen more on low volleys and such...is that what you're getting?

i read your next post so i see the subjective part in the quarreling couple. however if the veMid is an ok frame then i really gotta try out the bb11. fast swinging is only one aspect of the veMid...cause in the right hands, it can really jump and jive...so to speak.

you seem to really dig that frame...maybe just stick with that one and consider yourself lucky because many TW posters cant seem to find anything that is good enough

I've been playing Volkl frames for the last 10 years ever since I developed a bad case of the "elbow." The soft feel saved me as well as different strings. I've used the Tour 8 V-Engine for the past 3 years and now looking for a replacement...the new Becker models don't have the same specs, etc. and I've tried Babolat, Prince, Head but nothing is close to the great feel of the Tour 8. Any recommendations to demo? Thanks.

The Tour8VE sure wasnt one of Volkls best for comfort. Is that the one you have? There also was the Cat8VE and that one was super comfortable. both of those are 100 headsized and a bit longer i think. you may want to try the beckerV1...sometimes changing racquets can trigger a recurrence of TE..if you are fine with what you have, maybe just score another one and call it a day?

louis netman
01-14-2008, 04:38 PM
Anyway, I need something close to the C7, because other 18x20 rackets I have tried are not working. If anyone can compare these 2 rackets, I would appreciate it. I think i have asked this question before, but I cant remember which thread it was in.

The specs between the 2 are quite similar, the B11 has a thinner beam by 1 mm, and has the DNX material in the frame as well. From what I have read, it sounds like I will be getting more pop from a B11 compared to a C7, which is good, because I had the C7 leaded at 3, 9, and 12.


Think you will like the BB11. I have both C7 versions and they are a bit sweeter in feel than the BB11 (can't beat "C" seies in feel), but the 11 doesn't have that characteristic little flutter that the red C7 has with balls struck higher in the hoop. It's also more solid than the black& yellow C7. Definitely worth a demo as it's really quite a nice modern frame. As you may already know, I'm terribly scrutinizing of modern frame feel...

jcstennis
01-14-2008, 04:50 PM
Here's something relevant and practical for consideration.

A lesson shows up. husband and wife. she was really hot looking and he was being a real wad and they were fighting....i hate when that happens so i said something to try and break the mood..anyway, they are both swinging Gen2's. She's a little better than him. she's in the high 4.0 low 4.5 range.

They notice I am teaching with the Becker11 standard that day and they want to hit with it. Neither one could make this racquet work as well as their Gen2's. they had trouble flush hitting it, spinning it, and getting any power out of it. Me? I'm a 5.0 and I get lots more power out of it than the Gen2, flush hit it well, and have no trouble spinning the ball. so when you read racquet advice around here, i think it important to consider the level of play of the person giving the advice along with other factors which i wont get into.

To complete the story, since they were Volkl lovers and interested in the gear, I gave them a DNX9 to hit feeling sure they could make that one work even better than their Gen2's...they both could, but both declared they could never switch to it???? purists......

end


thanks for the insight.. good points. :)

the reason why i posted the question is, an offer came my way concerning the GenII. not ever playing it and only knowing the specs... i wanted to see what others would say about the stick... i have hit with the BB11 and will spend more time with it. the GenII offer, though attractive... still, i will not jump at it until i play it.

plus, i know i have to take others opinions as what they are... their's! i know a racquet by physics alone does not generate power, so when somone says 'it's powerful'.... well my power, from me generating it, may not be the same with that racquet... and so on. i have used similar analogies too... it's all about what you like or what you think you like. :)

jcstennis
01-14-2008, 04:51 PM
JCS ...
I have spent a lot of time with the Gen 2 (3+ years) and not enough with the BB11S.

Anyway, here are some of my thoughts when comparing these two ...

Both are great "all-around sticks"
BB11 has more pop on the serve
Both are great volley sticks (edge to BB11)
Both allow good racquet head speed
BB11 slightly heavier ball on groundstrokes and serves
Both generate good power on the groundstrokes
Gen 2 is slightly sturdier (I am going to play more with the BB11 to test this more)
Both racquets are excellent for all around maneuverability
Both are extremely comfortable (slight edge to Gen 2)
Both have generous sweetspots (maybe the string spacing on the 18X20 frame helps?)
BB11 is easier to take command of an overhead (pop and precision)Hopefully, I will likely play twice more this week with the BB11 and hope to re-confirm my initial findings and perhaps add a few more ...


cool thanks!!!

bad_call
01-14-2008, 04:59 PM
...you seem to really dig that frame...maybe just stick with that one and consider yourself lucky because many TW posters cant seem to find anything that is good enough

yeah. it would be hard to pry this one out of my hands. 5 sq inches more wouldn't make much difference anyway if u can't get the wheels moving. now if i can get more of that jive thing going, i'd be groovin. :)

TourTenor
01-15-2008, 07:26 AM
cool thanks!!!

JCS, you're welcome. Also, as a follow-up to the NBMJ comments, the Gen 2 has plenty of pop on my groundstokes however, some swing types can't generate this power. This seems to be partly a function of swingspeed. If you have high swingspeed (and good technique) you will like the power from the ground. I suggest that you demo both these racquets and let us know what you think. The Gen 2 isn't offered in the US but depending on where you are, some countries seem to still have them.


That would explain the swingweight. The ones with the red 'MidPlus' were the earlier ones and those were significantly more sluggish than the ones that came after which had 'MidPlus' in black. The swingweight of the Gen2 is 315

NBMJ, my DNX10 mids seems to be at the reported 325 sw and the Gen 2s are less (I think SW 315). What was the SW difference between the red 'MidPlus' and the black 'MidPlus' Which one is reported to be SW 315?

NoBadMojo
01-15-2008, 07:57 AM
JCS, you're welcome. Also, as a follow-up to the NBMJ comments, the Gen 2 has plenty of pop on my groundstokes however, some swing types can't generate this power. This seems to be partly a function of swingspeed. If you have high swingspeed (and good technique) you will like the power from the ground. I suggest that you demo both these racquets and let us know what you think. The Gen 2 isn't offered in the US but depending on where you are, some countries seem to still have them.


NBMJ, my DNX10 mids seems to be at the reported 325 sw and the Gen 2s are less (I think SW 315). What was the SW difference between the red 'MidPlus' and the black 'MidPlus' Which one is reported to be SW 315?

i think the Gen2 is considered low powered because of the construction and not the swingspeed used. it's got fibreglass in there..it's flexible all over. there is nothing strategically in there to stiffen this frame up anywhere (no v-engine, no dnx material, etc). i play with high batspeed and good technique and my ball didnt do much at all with this racquet after the bounce...looked real nice in the air. really sweet feeling low powered comfortable frame with an enormous sweetzone. reminds me quite a bit of those old obsolete frames back in the 80's-90's..the ones marked 75% graphite/25%fiberglass, but the gen2 is lighter than those

the black cosmetic coded gen2's which are the later/latest ones were 315sw.

TourTenor
01-15-2008, 08:22 AM
Sorry, to hijack this to discussion (comparison?) to the Gen 2 ... I am really impressed with the BB11S and obviously (see prior posts) couldn't say enough about it.

NBMJ, I hear you regarding the Gen 2 fibreglass frame. I wonder if the red label version gives a slightly more heavy ball due to slightly greater mass? Perhaps the black label version was just too light.

IMO the DNX material in the first pass of racquets was oddly distributed within the racquets (with the exception of the DNX10 mid). I think this may have changed with the new BB line. The BB11S has the best feel to it of all the DNX models that I have tried. I certainly agree that the Gen 2 (red label) does not hit as heavy a ball as the BB11S which is close to, but IMO, slightly 'less heavy' than the DNX10 mid. The DNX10mid also has a higher swingweight than the BB11S.

NoBadMojo
01-15-2008, 08:54 AM
Sorry, to hijack this to discussion (comparison?) to the Gen 2 ... I am really impressed with the BB11S and obviously (see prior posts) couldn't say enough about it.

NBMJ, I hear you regarding the Gen 2 fibreglass frame. I wonder if the red label version gives a slightly more heavy ball due to slightly greater mass? Perhaps the black label version was just too light.

IMO the DNX material in the first pass of racquets was oddly distributed within the racquets (with the exception of the DNX10 mid). I think this may have changed with the new BB line. The BB11S has the best feel to it of all the DNX models that I have tried. I certainly agree that the Gen 2 (red label) does not hit as heavy a ball as the BB11S which is close to, but IMO, slightly 'less heavy' than the DNX10 mid. The DNX10mid also has a higher swingweight than the BB11S.

for sure. mass creates more power given enough batspeed. there's reasons why racquets play the way they do.

the dnx material was applied in the same way in all of the Volkl DNX racquets. It was a new material not used in racquets before and I understand the problem with this material is that it doesnt play well with other materials, so they had to find a good way to Vulcan mind meld it into the frame. ;O They did a good job, but you certainly cant say that the feel was traditional Volkl and perfectly homogenous.

fast forward to the newest use of the dnx material. moved it from the inside of the frame to the outside, use more of it, use it on the inside of the throat, terminate it in bracelets which wrap the frame completely...pretty ingenious and useful if you ask me and the feel is more traditional and is volk like i think.

perhaps more info than folks wish to process......

hjminard
01-15-2008, 08:56 AM
Nice thread ... Good to see this racquet getting some (due) attention. For me, personally, the BB11 is the best all-around racquet I've ever used.

bad_call
01-15-2008, 04:06 PM
...fast forward to the newest use of the dnx material. moved it from the inside of the frame to the outside, use more of it, use it on the inside of the throat, terminate it in bracelets which wrap the frame completely...pretty ingenious and useful if you ask me and the feel is more traditional and is volk like i think.

perhaps more info than folks wish to process......

not for this diy type. thanks for sharing.

bagung
01-15-2008, 04:34 PM
the GEN2 with red "midplus" has higher SW than the 315..?
BB11 does hit "heavier ball" than the gen2...

ericsson
01-16-2008, 12:05 AM
the GEN2 with red "midplus" has higher SW than the 315..?
BB11 does hit "heavier ball" than the gen2...

I have a red midplus gen II and yes the difference is significantly, actually it feels quite heavy, a lot heavier then my original T10.

TourTenor
01-16-2008, 07:39 AM
My glow about the BB11S has been tempered somewhat ... but I still believe that it is a great all around racquet. My concern comes from the lack of swingweight ... I can swing it all day but in competitive play it feels a bit too light. It seems (by feel not measurement) significantly more headlight than my Gen2s (red label) and DNX10 mids. I plan on using it again before it goes back to the shop.

NoBadMojo
01-16-2008, 09:46 AM
My glow about the BB11S has been tempered somewhat ... but I still believe that it is a great all around racquet. My concern comes from the lack of swingweight ... I can swing it all day but in competitive play it feels a bit too light. It seems (by feel not measurement) significantly more headlight than my Gen2s (red label) and DNX10 mids. I plan on using it again before it goes back to the shop.

try the B11 Special Edition frame then. Think that one would be enough swingweight for you. It's around 12ozs un and only about 1/2"HL un.

bagung
01-16-2008, 02:18 PM
My glow about the BB11S has been tempered somewhat ... but I still believe that it is a great all around racquet. My concern comes from the lack of swingweight ... I can swing it all day but in competitive play it feels a bit too light. It seems (by feel not measurement) significantly more headlight than my Gen2s (red label) and DNX10 mids. I plan on using it again before it goes back to the shop.

that is what i feel about BB11 too..
the gen2 (red label) you mentioned, is that the "midplus" decal at 12 o'clock in red colour..? so the red label SW is arround ..?

bad_call
01-16-2008, 02:32 PM
My glow about the BB11S has been tempered somewhat ... but I still believe that it is a great all around racquet. My concern comes from the lack of swingweight ... I can swing it all day but in competitive play it feels a bit too light. It seems (by feel not measurement) significantly more headlight than my Gen2s (red label) and DNX10 mids. I plan on using it again before it goes back to the shop.

:shock: maybe request TW to spec this one again and post the actual numbers.

samster
01-16-2008, 03:17 PM
My glow about the BB11S has been tempered somewhat ... but I still believe that it is a great all around racquet. My concern comes from the lack of swingweight ... I can swing it all day but in competitive play it feels a bit too light. It seems (by feel not measurement) significantly more headlight than my Gen2s (red label) and DNX10 mids. I plan on using it again before it goes back to the shop.

Lack of SW? Are you kidding? If anything, people are worried about the "high" SW!

TourTenor
01-16-2008, 03:26 PM
try the B11 Special Edition frame then. Think that one would be enough swingweight for you. It's around 12ozs un and only about 1/2"HL un.
NBMJ, The special edition certainly sounds interesting (albeit expensive). At some risk of getting an unneeded rise out of some trollers ... my local shop is having trouble getting response from the local Becker/Volkl rep (he is a very infrequent visitor to what is the only shop (they actually have two locations) in an area of 1.5 million people. Maybe, I should see if some of the local club's shops are having any better luck. Or, I might try the TW demo program. So, although my shop has the Becker11S there has been no sign of the Becker11L (my wife wants to try it) and certainly no B11SE's to be had.

that is what i feel about BB11 too..
the gen2 (red label) you mentioned, is that the "midplus" decal at 12 o'clock in red colour..? so the red label SW is arround ..?

Bagung, Yes, I got my Gen 2s back yesterday and they have the red "midplus" at 12 o'clock. I am confused about the swingweight as I always assumed that they were the reported 315SW. I always thought the DNX 10 mid was about 325 SW which made sense to how they both compare. I am wondering if they are both a bit higher maybe 328-330 for the DNX10mid and 320-322 for the red label Gen 2???? If that were the case, I would put the BB11S somewhere around 315 or so. All I can say for sure is ... the swingweight order from high to low goes DNX10mid, Gen2(red label), BB11S and, the difference between each is very noticeable.
:shock: maybe request TW to spec this one again and post the actual numbers
Bad_call, Not sure where to ask TW to revisit the SW question for this racquet ... but there is no way the BB11Ss that are out now (I have two on demo so that my wife can check one out) is the reported 337SW.

samster
01-16-2008, 03:32 PM
I strung up a BB11 today and swinging it in the house I am guesstimating it to be in around 325-328. It's SW is more than DNX 10 MP (320) and less than PDR (330). I am hoping that it plays like the DNX 10 MP with more comfort.

TourTenor
01-16-2008, 04:01 PM
Samster,
After two sessions with the BB11S, I think it in another league, thinking about comfort, when compared to the DNX10 MP. Also, with the BB I note that the static weight is 12.15 oz. vs one of my Gen 2's at 11.75 oz however the BB swingweight is significantly lower.

NoBadMojo
01-16-2008, 04:02 PM
Here's my take having the specs of most of these from Volkl and lots of playing time with these..my perceptions match the specs.
The Gen2 is 315SW
The Dnx10Mid is 325
The b11S swings in between those 2...so around 320.
all 3 have a very similar balance 1.2-1.3hl un

I can say this with certainty

The early Red labeled Gen2's were significantly higher in sw than the regular ones..perhaps around 325 or even a little higher..at least as hard to swing fast as the dnx10Mids <but it has been a long time since i hit the gen2>. i really dont think so many of these ever made it through the pipeline

Will note that everyone around here who has picked up the b11 comments that it feels heavy and they can feel a significant amount of weight in the head <pickup weight and balance>. During actual play it plays as per the specs

bagung
01-16-2008, 04:36 PM
i found the BB11 is easier to swing than the T10gen2 (red label).. that is what i suspect the gen2 would not have the SW of 315, it is definetly higher... ...

TourTenor
01-16-2008, 05:02 PM
Bagung,
We agree on the SW difference re the BB11 ... but, where do you put the SW of the DNX10 mid compared to the Gen2 (red label)? I have seen a difference and long used the Gen2 as my backup when I start to tire (2 hours or so) with the DNX10mid.

bagung
01-16-2008, 05:18 PM
TourTenor,
out of my 5 dnx mid, i have 2 at 356g strung weight, which i bought in early days; and the other 3 at 348g strung which i boght on latter days...
the balance among them is the same, and the heavier one is about 7 SW more than the lighter one...
i actually found the lighter one swings almost identical than the GEN2 (red) that i had..
all the strung weight includes of :
2.3g of head-tape,
4.45g of over-grip

bagung
01-16-2008, 05:33 PM
i had installed 3g of lead on 2 and 10 each on my BB11. and now it is 350g strung with head-tape and over-grip. it still swings more easier than the dnx-10mid of 348g strung..

ericsson
01-16-2008, 11:07 PM
Bagung,
We agree on the SW difference re the BB11 ... but, where do you put the SW of the DNX10 mid compared to the Gen2 (red label)? I have seen a difference and long used the Gen2 as my backup when I start to tire (2 hours or so) with the DNX10mid.

I would put the Gen II REd label the highest of all, really swings high, around 330 maybe.

old coach
01-17-2008, 06:38 AM
Did anyone had increase weight in a handle, to increase acceleration, which ultimately will increase power on top spin as well as in a slice.

TourTenor
01-17-2008, 07:39 AM
Erickson, I played with the DNX10mid for 1 1/2 years and went to the Gen2's when I was tired. My Gen2s swing easier. If my Gen2s are higher than the reported 315SW some other options are out there ...

I am now thinking I should try the C-10. I think that one is reported to be 323SW. Open pattern. Good touch. Good pop. hmmm. Or ... I might just stick with what I have.

jcstennis
02-03-2008, 06:14 AM
Erickson, I played with the DNX10mid for 1 1/2 years and went to the Gen2's when I was tired. My Gen2s swing easier. If my Gen2s are higher than the reported 315SW some other options are out there ...

I am now thinking I should try the C-10. I think that one is reported to be 323SW. Open pattern. Good touch. Good pop. hmmm. Or ... I might just stick with what I have.


Have you tried the C-10 yet?

TourTenor
02-03-2008, 07:30 AM
jcstennis ....

No, I haven't tried the C-10, as I am having problems getting volkl/becker sticks through my local shop (they tell me their rep is problematic and is focused on skis at the moment). I am disappointed to hear this but hope they can get some new-paint C-10's in along with the new BB11 mid (that is supposed to come out any day now) for demos. Right now they only have the BB11S and the BBV1 and a couple of other power volkls. I will give them a few weeks to see if I can get ahold of these sticks ... otherwise I will probably give the TW demo program a try.

Have you tried the C-10?

NoBadMojo
02-03-2008, 08:48 AM
Did anyone had increase weight in a handle, to increase acceleration, which ultimately will increase power on top spin as well as in a slice.

just saw this. i dont think frames like the Gen2 perform very well by making them even more headlight. they are already significantly headlight, and just turn goofy by making them even more headlight

jcstennis
02-03-2008, 10:17 AM
jcstennis ....

No, I haven't tried the C-10, as I am having problems getting volkl/becker sticks through my local shop (they tell me their rep is problematic and is focused on skis at the moment). I am disappointed to hear this but hope they can get some new-paint C-10's in along with the new BB11 mid (that is supposed to come out any day now) for demos. Right now they only have the BB11S and the BBV1 and a couple of other power volkls. I will give them a few weeks to see if I can get ahold of these sticks ... otherwise I will probably give the TW demo program a try.

Have you tried the C-10?

no, but interested... i like the specs. i gotta do a little more research here, read up about it more... then hopefully get my hands on one.

sorry to hear about your rep... i'm lucky to have a decent shop by me... and good contacts through the boards.. very helpful! :)

NBMJ... can the C-10 be ordered with a different pallet shape?
Just started playing the BB11's and like that grip :)

NoBadMojo
02-03-2008, 12:56 PM
no, but interested... i like the specs. i gotta do a little more research here, read up about it more... then hopefully get my hands on one.

sorry to hear about your rep... i'm lucky to have a decent shop by me... and good contacts through the boards.. very helpful! :)

NBMJ... can the C-10 be ordered with a different pallet shape?
Just started playing the BB11's and like that grip :)

No but just have one of your contacts get you a Becker pallet and swap the pallet out

crazyups
02-05-2008, 05:43 PM
bb 11 standard is working well for me after going through DNX 10 mid+(not maneuverable) and donnay pro 1 mid+(too mushy, s.w. too low, not stable enough). I am curious about Fischer m comp 95 though, how is it's power level compared to these?

bad_call
02-05-2008, 05:57 PM
just saw this. i dont think frames like the Gen2 perform very well by making them even more headlight. they are already significantly headlight, and just turn goofy by making them even more headlight

goofy - lol. too funny. like the one where mickey gets mad at minnie.

slice bh compliment
02-06-2008, 01:59 AM
bb 11 standard is working well for me after going through DNX 10 mid+(not maneuverable) and donnay pro 1 mid+(too mushy, s.w. too low, not stable enough). I am curious about Fischer m comp 95 though, how is it's power level compared to these?

crazy power

NoBadMojo
02-06-2008, 05:47 AM
goofy - lol. too funny. like the one where mickey gets mad at minnie.

yea...admittedly 'goofy' isnt a very technical term.......

crazyups
02-06-2008, 09:32 AM
crazy power

ha ha ha haaa! sounds like it might work cause I need a crazy kind of fix from time to time!! Goooo Tipsy!

Mies
03-11-2008, 06:10 AM
Heiah folks, I've been reading the discussion on the BB11 std vs the Gen II MP.

I have been hitting with a (I think black labeled) Gen II for the past 3 years, although I have added 4 grams of lead in the tip. The swingweight of the standard version is listed at 315 and according to tennis.com's racket finder its 322. My 4 grams of lead will bump the swingweight by 15 points so I end up with a swingweight of something in between 330 and 337. I have compared it to my coaches K95 (340 swingweight according to TW, but this seems a bit too high)and they swing about the same.

The BB11 standard I have on test is a bit more difficult to get around than my leaded up Gen II, where most others on this board seem to think that even the stock gen II is harder to get around.

I must say my experience on the BB11 is based on a doubles match against 2 5.0's. All of us playing S&V and having serves in the 90-110 mph range, in other words, no baselining. Tonight I have my regular training sessions and I'll have a better chance of hitting some groundies on the BB11.

Regardless, the BB11 std is even better than my leaded Gen II on the volleys!

TourTenor
03-11-2008, 08:07 AM
Mies ... My Gen 2's (stock, red label) have a slightly higher swingweight than the BB11Standard. I find that the BB11S feels a little too light in the head. The lighter head does make it slightly more maneuverable at the net than the Gen 2. My wife (who likes to take full swings) loves the BB11S and she purchased one a few weeks ago.

Mies
03-11-2008, 02:41 PM
Well, I just came back of a training session where we mostly hit from the baseline and ended with some S&V. I find it a bit harder to time my forehand with the BB11 std when I go all out, but adjusting from my leaded Gen II is no biggy.

I have no problem adjusting on the one handed backhand and my slices have more punch on em with the BB11. I also feel that my halfcourt volleys have more bite on em with the BB11. Serving is also similar.

Both are really comfy and solid frames. I am going to buy a BB11 std for sure, but the question is, which one to use as my main? The questions in life eh :)

Regards,
Maurice

Btw, nice to hear your wife likes it too.

TourTenor
03-11-2008, 03:40 PM
I have no problem adjusting on the one handed backhand and my slices have more punch on em with the BB11. I also feel that my halfcourt volleys have more bite on em with the BB11. Serving is also similar.

Both are really comfy and solid frames. I am going to buy a BB11 std for sure, but the question is, which one to use as my main? The questions in life eh :)

Maurice, the BB11mid is due out any day now and it sounds "just right" for me in the specs department. It supposedly has a slightly higher swingweight (I hope similar to the Gen2 red label) than the BB11S with many of the same attributes. It also is supposed to be an improved version of the DNX10mid which I think is the best of the DNX line. You might want to compare the BB11S with the BB11mid ... I will give a report when I get my hands on one. TT