Tips for the one-hander

[kirschbomb]

Name the most important keys to a successful 1-handed BH. I am trying to develop one atm :)

[kirschbomb]

and also, what do you find the most comfortable backhand grip?

what does federer use?

[TonyB]

Keep your head steady and watch the contact point. When you finish your stroke, you should still be watching the contact point. Don't move your head.

Most important tip, ever.

[Jonny S&V]

and also, what do you find the most comfortable backhand grip?

what does federer use?

Federer's grip is good to emulate, but his backswing definitely is too complex for a lot of rec players to get working. Fed uses an eastern bh grip, but I would copy Blake's backhand. Same grip, straight back and straight forward. This is the base of all topspin backhands. The base of ALL topspin backhands is a slice backhand though, so the real question is how comfortable you are with your slice backhand?

[kirschbomb]

Thanks, I'm gonna try to get a vid of my one-hander.

and yes I am very comfortable with my slice backhand.

[kirschbomb]

What is an eastern backhand? The index knuckle is placed on what part of the grip?

[Jonny S&V]

What is an eastern backhand? The index knuckle is placed on what part of the grip?

Bevel 8 I think:

http://cache.viewimages.com/xc/1993127.jpg?v=1&c=ViewImages&k=2&d=17A4AD9FDB9CF19390335F8FA9CA92A69DEA47911C4A9E4F 9930FDCFC4C15FBB

[stormholloway]

I've started hitting mine with more of a Guga/Gasquet type of backswing with great success. I've even turned my grip more extreme, which puts the hand further behind the racquet rather than above it.

It's a loopier backswing with a higher take back, but I find it to be more easily repeatable than Federer's swing.

I think the best tip a one hander can remember is to not straighten the elbow too early, since so much power comes from the triceps.

[kensan]

I would strongly disagree with power coming from the tricep. I think the power comes from locking the arm and wrist just prior to contact which translates the power from a combination of hip / body rotation and shoulder lift.

[Jonny S&V]

I would strongly disagree with power coming from the tricep. I think the power comes from locking the arm and wrist just prior to contact which translates the power from a combination of hip / body rotation and shoulder lift.

The power shouldn't come from the hip.

[es-0]

I would strongly disagree with power coming from the tricep. I think the power comes from locking the arm and wrist just prior to contact which translates the power from a combination of hip / body rotation and shoulder lift.

Depends on the style of backhand, classic wouldn't have much power from rotation. A new style stroke would have much more rotation, so essentially you both are right.

For the one-hander it's important to keep your head still and your eyes on the ball, and put your weight behind the ball. But, in my opinion, the most important part is the footwork. So I'd make sure you have the footwork perfect, because even if you have a good stroke the footwork can wreck the entire thing.

[kirschbomb]

Does anyone know gasquet's backhand grip? I think it's western, but a western back hand seems impossible to hit..

[Jonny S&V]

Does anyone know gasquet's backhand grip? I think it's western, but a western back hand seems impossible to hit..

It's more of a strong eastern. Mauresmo uses the same grip. Kuerten uses a full western grip and my wrist screams in pain and the pleasure receptor screams or joy every time I see his backhand (so beautiful, almost impossible to copy though).

[stormholloway]

I would strongly disagree with power coming from the tricep. I think the power comes from locking the arm and wrist just prior to contact which translates the power from a combination of hip / body rotation and shoulder lift.

Which muscle do you think locks the arm? It's called the tricep.

There is zero hip rotation.

[stormholloway]

It's more of a strong eastern. Mauresmo uses the same grip. Kuerten uses a full western grip and my wrist screams in pain and the pleasure receptor screams or joy every time I see his backhand (so beautiful, almost impossible to copy though).

I find it rather easy to copy. Because it's so loopy and the racquet drops so far, gravity seems to do all the work as the racquet falls and the arm straightens.

I find a western grip to be even more comfortable for the wrist because the hand is behind the racquet at impact rather than over it. It's like the difference between punching with your knuckles or punching with the top of your hand. If you punch with the top of your hand your wrist breaks.

[kirschbomb]

How do you feel about a high take back? Is this a positive or a negative?

[stormholloway]

I have experimented with so many grips and motions for this shot. I've found that a high take back, a la Kuerten and Gasquet, is both effective for generating power and controlling direction. The drawback, the only one that I've found, is that it requires more preparation time. It hasn't really hurt me much though. You can always shorten the swing when you need to.

[montx]

I would say experiment until you find the right grip for you whether western or eastern for comfort and placement, then work on power last.

I think a high takeback is ok for beginners but as you get the concept you can drop your takeback for the shorter more efficient loop.

[tricky]

I find a western grip to be even more comfortable for the wrist because the hand is behind the racquet at impact rather than over it.

Yeah, for the "modern" 1H BH (i.e. Kuerten, Gasquet, Henin, etc.), you want to move your grip a little bit over to protect the wrist.

How do you feel about a high take back? Is this a positive or a negative?

Really depends on whether you want to use a "classical" or "modern" 1H BH. In the classical style, the stroke is a kind of pendulum or smile pattern, where you swing toward the sky. In the modern style, it's a loop and you swing across the body like a modern FH. The high takeback is used to set up that loop. Some people use a high takeback or loop with a classical swing, but that is a mismatch. . This makes it harder to straighten out your hitting arm toward the POC as well as to hit through the ball. Likewise, you don't want to use a smile pattern as your takeback and then swing across your body. Again, you'll end up having a harder time straightening outhe arm prior to POC, as well as putting weight on the shot.

[cadfael_tex]

Tricky, can you help me understand the difference in the stroke? I think I understand but can you link to some pictures or video of the two different?

[JCo872]

Name the most important keys to a successful 1-handed BH. I am trying to develop one atm :)

Here is a video to study:
http://www.hi-techtennis.com/video_sample/index.php?movie=gasquet_onehander_close.swf&size=wide

A few things to notice:

1) The shoulder high takeback.
2) Pulling the racket to contact, butt cap leading the way
3) Contact point far in front of the body.
4) Hitting arm is straightened out well before contact.
5) Lift the ball for topspin.
6) Arm extends fully across the body on finish.
7) Left arm moves backwards for counter balance.

[stormholloway]

I don't get number 4. Why straighten out "well" before contact. I think it's key not to straighten out too early, as the straightening out is where the power comes from. If it's done too early that power diminishes.

[cadfael_tex]

I've read on one website somewhere that the straightening is overstated as part of the shot. Haven't got a chance to try it yet but the guy (sorry can't remember who) had clips and pics of Fed's BH to show he keeps it bent. The angles he showed seemed to collaborate that.

[JCo872]

I don't get number 4. Why straighten out "well" before contact. I think it's key not to straighten out too early, as the straightening out is where the power comes from. If it's done too early that power diminishes.

We had this debate concerning instruction from Mark Papas site. He says, like you, that the straightening of the arm is where power comes from.

From all the video I've studied, I'd say its a total myth, and, if anything, a real hitch to generating power and spin. If done too late, it not only robs you of power and spin, but has the added bonus of causing tennis elbow.

But to each his own.

[JCo872]

Just so were on the same page, though, the arm is bent when you take it up and back. When the racket and arm fall, however, it should straighten out when your hand is behind your hip - before any pulling motion to the ball occurs. This isn't really my opinon, or anything I care about personally. It's just what I see ad nauseum in the videos I have watched over and over again.

[SFrazeur]

You want to straighten out your hitting arm before contact; however you do not want to to do it too early and get a ridged stroke, you want to be lose but you need that straight structure for leverage at contact.

I do not know what others see when they come to the conclusion that the arm straighting into the shot creates power, unless in their minds they think of a Bow and arrow like action.

-SF

[AmericanTemplar]

From what I've noticed from both personal experience and the videos posted on Jeff's website is that power is mostly provided by the leverave placed on the straight arm by the right shoulder (for a right hander) and the hip rotation. You can see very clearly what I'm talking about if you look at the Gasquet video.

[JCo872]

From what I've noticed from both personal experience and the videos posted on Jeff's website is that power is mostly provided by the leverave placed on the straight arm by the right shoulder (for a right hander) and the hip rotation. You can see very clearly what I'm talking about if you look at the Gasquet video.

Exactly. The leverage created from a straight arm is tremendous. And if you contact the ball well in front of your body with your arm straight, you get "free" power just from the leveraging effect. Just lift and then fully extend the arm across your body.

Anyway, here are a few players with arms very straight long before contact:
http://www.hi-techtennis.com/images/onehander_elbow.jpg

One place you can generate speed into the ball is with the racket traveling "inside out" to contact. You pull the butt cap of the racket to the ball, but moments before contact, the racket head travels outward and catches up to the arm. Then arm lifts and drives the ball.

It's myth to think a snapping elbow provides this momentum into contact - all it does is screw up the straight arm lift and extension.

[JCo872]

You want to straighten out your hitting arm before contact; however you do not want to to do it too early and get a ridged stroke, you want to be lose but you need that straight structure for leverage at contact.

I do not know what others see when they come to the conclusion that the arm straighting into the shot creates power, unless in their minds they think of a Bow and arrow like action.

-SF

Great points.

Mark Papas of Revolutionary Tennis says that you generate racket head speed by snapping your elbow into the ball. He says the movement is exactly like tossing a frisbee. We debated him on this and Gorilla found on his website that he admits to suffering from tennis elbow.

[AmericanTemplar]

Great points.

Mark Papas of Revolutionary Tennis says that you generate racket head speed by snapping your elbow into the ball. He says the movement is exactly like tossing a frisbee. We debated him on this and Gorilla found on his website that he admits to suffering from tennis elbow.

Funny--before getting to the part where you said that he suffers from tennis elbow I imagined hitting a backhand like throwing a frisbee and immediately felt a pain in my elbow.:)

[SFrazeur]

I hate it whenever someone gives stroke instruction that includes the word "snap."

-SF

[tricky]

Tricky, can you help me understand the difference in the stroke? I think I understand but can you link to some pictures or video of the two different?

The classical style BH (Federer, Haas, Blake) uses a pendulum-style movement. One way to describe it as a "smile pattern", and it has no loop for the takeback In addition, the body doesn't open up that much, and the racquet finishes high.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=100686

Especially if you watch Haas videos, you'll see this at work.

It's really about matching the takeback with the forward swing. In the classical 1H BH, you swing toward the sky and limit how much the body opens up. It, like the 2H BH, isn't really designed for shoulder rotation (important but not #1) and pure racquet speed. It's about putting weight into the ball, making sure there is linear extension into the ball (straightening of arm and body not excessively opening up.)

This takeback style (which is also used with the male-style 2H BH) enables the shoulder to be loaded pretty well (thus good racquet speed) while adhering to the 2 advantages of a classical 1H BH. First, it enables the arm to straighten out automatically prior to POC. Second, it prevents the body from opening up excessively, thus enabling the swing to drive through the ball.

A loop in the takeback is itself not a good idea for this version of the stroke, because now you're loading the shoulder to swing laterally. As a result, now the forward swing of your 1H BH is a conscious effort to prevent this from happening (which means consciously straightening the arm with the triceps and limiting your hip rotation), thereby really, really slowing down the swing and the extension into the shot.

Modern 1H BH (Gasquet, Kuerten, Henin) works on different set of priorities. It puts highest priority on manufacturing racquet head speed, through maximally loading the shoulder. And then from there, you work on driving the swing through the ball. As a result, you want to use a loop and to properly take advantage of it, you swing laterally or across the body, enabling your torso to fully open up.

[cadfael_tex]

Ok, I'm getting closer. I'll have to see some tape of Gasquet and Henin (Kuerten hurts me to watch - beautiful but painful) to grasp the 'swing laterally across the body - I'm having a brain crunch on picturing this.

When I learned the 1 hander I was taught to point the right shoulder into the ball and pull the racquet back with the off hand (at least those are the tips at the time that seemed to help my stroke). What does that have to do with anything - not sure - but sounds like the smile / classic 1 hander to me.

[kirschbomb]

Yeah, for the "modern" 1H BH (i.e. Kuerten, Gasquet, Henin, etc.), you want to move your grip a little bit over to protect the wrist.



Really depends on whether you want to use a "classical" or "modern" 1H BH. In the classical style, the stroke is a kind of pendulum or smile pattern, where you swing toward the sky. In the modern style, it's a loop and you swing across the body like a modern FH. The high takeback is used to set up that loop. Some people use a high takeback or loop with a classical swing, but that is a mismatch. . This makes it harder to straighten out your hitting arm toward the POC as well as to hit through the ball. Likewise, you don't want to use a smile pattern as your takeback and then swing across your body. Again, you'll end up having a harder time straightening outhe arm prior to POC, as well as putting weight on the shot.

By smile pattern do you mean sort of like Blake's backhand?

[kirschbomb]

Keep your head steady and watch the contact point. When you finish your stroke, you should still be watching the contact point. Don't move your head.

Most important tip, ever.

Thanks. I notice Federer really keeps his head steady after contact with the ball, almost exaggerated.

[tricky]

When I learned the 1 hander I was taught to point the right shoulder into the ball and pull the racquet back with the off hand (at least those are the tips at the time that seemed to help my stroke). What does that have to do with anything - not sure - but sounds like the smile / classic 1 hander to me.

Yeah, it sounds like a classic 1H BH. I'd add, though, that people who try a straight takeback tend to turn it into a mini-loop, and this will lead to the problems with a bent-arm at POC and with opening up the body excessively. People aren't taught classical strokes like the closed-stance FH, so it's difficult to establish a "reference swing" that is simply about putting racquet on the ball and putting weight into it.

In addition to the smile pattern, you can also look at it as tracing a "U" or a reverse-"J" with the elbow. These are all roads that lead to Rome.

By smile pattern do you mean sort of like Blake's backhand?

Yeah, it's a smile pattern. The other key thing about the 1H BH in this style is that you want to keep the back shoulder above the front driving through the ball. That is where looking down at the ball comes from. This (and footwork) are the things that seem to separate passable topspin 1H BH from 1H BH as weapon.

[Mahboob Khan]

I've started hitting mine with more of a Guga/Gasquet type of backswing with great success. I've even turned my grip more extreme, which puts the hand further behind the racquet rather than above it.

It's a loopier backswing with a higher take back, but I find it to be more easily repeatable than Federer's swing.

I think the best tip a one hander can remember is to not straighten the elbow too early, since so much power comes from the triceps.

Yes, with the high backswing the left arm aids in taking the racket back-up (upper body turned), the hitting arm is bent (elbow pointing to ground), but immediately prior to, during, and after contact it must straighten-stiffen out!

[kensan]

Very interesting points. I very much share the same theories about the 2 different styles of 1hbackhands. I had some questions for you, mostly clarification points.

It, like the 2H BH, isn't really designed for shoulder rotation (important but not #1) and pure racquet speed. In the above quote, by shoulder rotation you mean...? I never really use shoulder and rotation in the same sentence. Maybe concerning rotator cuff movement.

Modern 1H BH (Gasquet, Kuerten, Henin) works on different set of priorities. It puts highest priority on manufacturing racquet head speed, through maximally loading the shoulder.
Could you do your best to definite "loading the shoulder"? In my mind you are saying, position your body so that it is in the optimal position to lift up and out?

you swing laterally or across the body, enabling your torso to fully open up.
I share the same sentiment about the modern backhand being a lateral-movement focused shot. However at the POC, shouldn't the racket drive through the ball to get maximum power transferred? I have been wrestling with this question in my mind. Take for example the instruction to strike through 3 balls lined up in order to really power a ball. With this lateral swing across the body, can one achieve this with the modern backhand, vs the classic one which easily achieves this?

One last question, you mentioned that the back shoulder should be above the front shoulder. Does this preclude hitting high topspin backhands then? I am well aware of the drawbacks of the 1hbh of course, namely high balls. Just seeing how your theory fits with hitting a topspin high backhand, where the back shoulder probably has no choice but to be below the front shoulder.

Thanks, excellent points!

[Bungalo Bill]

Name the most important keys to a successful 1-handed BH. I am trying to develop one atm :)

If you have access to John Yandells site, I wrote an article on Mark P's onehander. It is useful because the videos are playing in it.

Also, I did a write-up of Haas's onehander when we could link to the USPTA video clips so you will see "blank" video holders in the following link.

You will have to search for them, but I have provided a lot of information regarding, smile patterns, shoulders, hips, footwork, stances, grips, eye contact, etc.. on the onehanded backhand. Here is the write-up on Tommy Haas.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=10182&highlight=onehanded+backhand

[Rafanatic]

Thanks for your tips.

[tricky]

Could you do your best to definite "loading the shoulder"? In my mind you are saying, position your body so that it is in the optimal position to lift up and out?The shoulder is the #1 source of arm swing speed; thus, improved loading of the shoulder potentially leads to improved racquet head speed.

When you are asked to takeback the racquet until the right shoulder is just under your chin, this is to load the shoulder thoroughly. This increases the potential energy or force output from the shoulder, which is released when you initiate the forward swing.

In the above quote, by shoulder rotation you mean...? I never really use shoulder and rotation in the same sentence. Maybe concerning rotator cuff movement.External rotation would be when the hitting arm away from the side of your body. This is limited in a traditional 1H BH, since you're not really supposed to open up a lot in the stroke. There are 3 deloid muscles that make up the shoulder. Because rotation is limited in the traditional 1H BH, you use only two of the three shoulder muscles significantly. (And honestly most 1H BHers only know how to use one -- albeit, the largest one -- significantly.)

In modern 1H BH, all three deltoid heads are used. And with a godlike BH like Gasquet, he's using all three significantly to generate an amazing amount of racquet head speed.

However at the POC, shouldn't the racket drive through the ball to get maximum power transferred?So, that's one of the general issues with classical vs. modern stroke patterns. Modern strokes generate provide racquet head speed, but classical strokes provide natural extension into the ball (i.e. drive through ball.) However, most people struggle with driving the racquet through the ball even with both classical 1H and 2H backhands, because they're so used to swinging "hard" across their body on the FH wing. My hunch is that 1H BHs used to be much easier to teach, when people were still hitting closed stance FHs. From the FH side, you would learn importance of transferring your weight into the ball, which of course requires balance, footwork, and preparation, above "just" generating high racquet speed. Then you'd apply those lessons to practicing 1H BH. That's kinda lost now.

With this lateral swing across the body, can one achieve this with the modern backhand, vs the classic one which easily achieves this?Yes, but if you have a crappy classical 1H BH, you'll have a REALLY crappy modern 1H BH. :D The "take big cut at ball" element of the modern 1H BH is very appealing to us, who already take big cuts at ball on the FH side. But, the underlying foundation is much more demanding than what most people take for granted.

One last question, you mentioned that the back shoulder should be above the front shoulder.Yeah, important for both 1H and 2H BHs. Probably moreso with the 1H BH, because you don't have extra support. I think Haas is slightly better at this than Federer. At least until recently.

Just seeing how your theory fits with hitting a topspin high backhand, where the back shoulder probably has no choice but to be below the front shoulder.Actually, this is where the back foot comes into play. Usually if you find yourself taking on really high balls, your back foot tends to come upward rather than forward in order to keep your back shoulder above the front. Also, your non-hitting arm noticeable adds some extra body English to sustain this higher position as you hit through the ball. You will notice that your POC tends to come in more than usual and you don't through the ball as much.

One nice thing about visualizing the front shoulder under the back through the takeback and forward stroke is that your body will automatically adjust to different POCs. Again with the high ball, you'll see the above. With waist height shots, your legs will bend a lot and really come into the shot.

[quicken]

Keep your hitting arm straight at all times.

[rosewall4ever]

In an instructional book i read before i think it was Don Budge who said its much like hitting a baseball....:)

[Bungalo Bill]

The shoulder is the #1 source of arm swing speed; thus, improved loading of the shoulder potentially leads to improved racquet head speed.

Tricky,

I am going to read the rest of your post but this sort of struck a cord with me.

Although placing the front shoulder under the chin is something I agree with and support, I am not so sure I am in agreement with your recommendation that the shoulder is the #1 source for racquet head speed.

I will go as far as agreeing that you swing from the shoulder but the #1 source of power? Please explain why you think that is before I debate this information.

Having the shoulder as the #1 source of power leads to overrotation as well and pulling away from the ball.

Just to be sure, please explain why the shoulder and not other parts of the kinetic chains is the #1 source of power.

[Rickson]

BB, why is there so much less trunk rotation in the 1hbh than the 2hbh?

[Bungalo Bill]

BB, why is there so much less trunk rotation in the 1hbh than the 2hbh?

I dont know if it is so much more then a 2hd. I have learned that there are two camps of 1handers now.

There is the evolving (I dont know if I would say popular) rotational modern onehander and the classic form where you have a strong rotation on the backswing (if your name was on the back of your shirt, your opponent should be able to see it), then rotate back until you put on the brakes with the non-dominant arm with your chest facing the 45 degree angle.

The sudden braking allows the hitting arm to take that energy boost and accelerate through and in front of the body.

So if I didnt answer your question, then by all meas ask away until we both understand how to communicate.

[Rickson]

I dont know if it is so much more then a 2hd. I have learned that there are two camps of 1handers now.

There is the evolving (I dont know if I would say popular) rotational modern onehander and the classic form where you have a strong rotation on the backswing (if your name was on the back of your shirt, your opponent should be able to see it), then rotate back until you put on the brakes with the non-dominant arm with your chest facing the 45 degree angle.

The sudden braking allows the hitting arm to take that energy boost and accelerate through and in front of the body.

So if I didnt answer your question, then by all meas ask away until we both understand how to communicate.

Now with the modern 1hbh, is the backhand done in an open stance?

[Bungalo Bill]

Now with the modern 1hbh, is the backhand done in an open stance?

I guess the modern stance is one. But the open stance can be hit using a classic form. In other words, rotation is controlled (but not exactly the same) as it is on the classic onehander.

I am not sure but I think it is a European thing that they are introducing more rotation with the shoulders at and through contact.

This is different from the classic backhand which brakes just before contact allowing the arm to come through and then after contact the shouders rotate toward the net.

I dont study it or bring it up because I think it would be a harder one to control. The classic onehander has so much instruction around it.

I don't know if anyone here can educate us on whether the hearsay that reached me is true.

[stormholloway]

The only one hander that should be done in an open stance should be a service return in my opinion, or perhaps when flicking a short ball on the run toward the net.

I think most of the power resulting from contact comes from the triceps, then the shoulder.

[soyizgood]

Name the most important keys to a successful 1-handed BH. I am trying to develop one atm :)

Why would you want to switch from a 2HBH to the OHBH? Is there something you are struggling with using the 2HBH?

I fool around and try to hit a few OHBH that I self-feed or hit in warm-up rallies with friends. I'll use the Eastern backhand when I do that. From my limited experience with the OHBH:

* Take back the racquet and have the weak arm hold it while you move into position to hit the ball.
* Bend your knees.
* Transfer weight to the front foot. The weight transfer generates the power so all you are doing with your strong arm is swinging forward in a low-to-high manner.
* Keep you shoulders level throughout the stroke.
* Upon contact, brush up on the ball. But don't brush too much as you want the bottom of the handle to be at shoulder level.

I'm not the most helpful guy with OHBH, so I'll just stick with 2HBH. Regardless of advice, it takes a while to be consistent with the OHBH and even longer before you can make it an offensive shot. If you still want to do it, good luck.