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View Full Version : Stats for 1990 AO SF (Edberg-Wilander)


krosero
02-06-2008, 07:21 AM
Score: 6-1, 6-1, 6-2

I've watched this match and confirmed that Edberg did indeed have 39 winners at the net, as well as 6 other winners. That gives him the highest rate of winners that I know about in any match, including Federer-Roddick at last year's AO, Graf-Navratilova in 1988, and performances for which I have only published stats, like Kohlschreiber-Roddick and Tsonga-Nadal.

Edberg's rate of winners is so high that I know of only one performance with a higher rate even when aces are included as winners -- and Edberg didn't even hit any aces.

The one exception is Graf's performance against Navratilova -- but even then Edberg has a higher rate if you take into account that the games in his match were shorter than those in the 1988 Wimbledon final.

The match lasted 1 hour 22 minutes.


Edberg hit 45 winners: 3 FH, 3 BH, 10 FHV, 23 BHV, and 6 overheads.

Wilander hit 8 winners: 3 FH, 4 BH, 1 FHV, 0 BHV, and 0 overheads.


So Edberg's 10 forehand volleys, 23 backhand volleys, and 6 overheads add up to the "39 volley winners" reported in the St. Louis Dispatch, the LA Times, and some other places.

The total numbers are so lopsided that Edberg had almost as many ground-stroke winners as Wilander.

Wilander had as many winners as Ken Rosewall did in his loss to Jimmy Connors in the 1974 U.S. Open final – a match two games shorter than this one.

This match was 22 games long, exactly the number of the 1984 Wimbledon final, in which McEnroe hit 25 non-service winners and 9 aces.


Edberg served 0 aces, 1 service winner, and 2 double faults.
Wilander served 3 aces, 1 service winners, and 0 doubles.


Edberg served at 77%, making 44 of 57 first serves. That is lower than the 80% figure I found in the print media. However 80% may be nothing more than a rounded figure (I've seen that done before). And my percentages kept pace with those shown by the German network in the second game of the third set, so the 80% figure is either inexact or incorrect.

(Note below that I already have Edberg making 17 of 20 first serves in the third set, and I would have to put him much higher than that if his match percentage as a whole is going to rise up to 80%. But that's hardly possible).

Wilander served at 64%, making 45 of 70 first serves.

Edberg’s percentages by set:
13/18 (72%)
14/19 (74%)
17/20 (85%)

Wilander’s percentages by set:
16/28 (57%)
12/17 (71%)
17/25 (68%)

Edberg won 45 of 57 points on his own serve, Wilander 32 of 70.

Edberg won 83 points overall, to Wilander’s 44, out of a total of 127.

Compare that with McEnroe winning 83 of 125 points in the 1984 Wimbledon final, a match with the same score.

Edberg won 7 of 13 break points, Wilander 0 of 0.

Edberg was pushed to deuce just once.

Wilander got his first serve into play on 10 of the 13 break points he faced (or 77% of the time).


Stats from the German television network covering the match: Edberg’s service percentage was 75% by the second game of the third set, Wilander's 61%. At that point, Edberg had won 78% of his first-serve points, Wilander 44%. Three games before the end, Edberg had won 33 points at net, Wilander just 2.




Edberg's rate of winners per game was 2.05. Since he didn't serve any aces, his rate stays the same whether you include aces or not.

To compare, Federer's rate of winners per game against Roddick in the 2007 semis was 1.33. With aces, it was 1.75.

Tsonga's rate of winners, aces -- and service winners, which are included in his published stats against Nadal but not included in my count for Edberg -- was 1.96.

Kohlschreiber's rate of winners, aces and service winners against Roddick was 1.76.

Graf's rate of winners and aces -- not including service winners -- was 2.11, slightly higher than Edberg's. However Edberg's match went by more quickly. So Edberg finished 35% of the points in his match with a winner or an ace, while Graf did only 33% in her win over Navratilova.

In that stat, Federer against Roddick was at 33%, and 35% if you include his service winners.

Tsonga and Kohlschrieber, with their service winners included, were at 34% and 30%, respectively.

Moose Malloy
02-06-2008, 10:57 AM
They must have shipped that match to you pretty quickly, surprised you already saw it. How was the picture quality? did you get any other matches from that site?

How would you rate Wilander's play? Was he making Edberg hit hard volleys? Were a lot of Edberg's volleys hit short(in service box)? any drop volleys? Mats did beat Edberg in 5 sets at the '88 AO, I wonder how they both played that day. I have the '85 AO final on dvd, maybe I'll do stats on that(from my memory, I don't recall an unusual amount of volley winners in that match. Commentators seemed to harp on more Mats' poor play than Edberg's good play in that one.)

Also now curious about Edberg's rate in the '91 USO final.

Did you do any net approach stats?

Any chance you can post some of it on youtube? You can probably show all those 33 volley winners in like 5 minutes.:)

edit:just looked up the head to head on these 2, this match sounds interesting(as far as potentially high winner counts):

Edberg d Wilander 6-2,6-1,6-1, Stockholm '86

krosero
02-06-2008, 01:35 PM
They must have shipped that match to you pretty quickly, surprised you already saw it. How was the picture quality? did you get any other matches from that site?

How would you rate Wilander's play? Was he making Edberg hit hard volleys? Were a lot of Edberg's volleys hit short(in service box)? any drop volleys? Mats did beat Edberg in 5 sets at the '88 AO, I wonder how they both played that day. I have the '85 AO final on dvd, maybe I'll do stats on that(from my memory, I don't recall an unusual amount of volley winners in that match. Commentators seemed to harp on more Mats' poor play than Edberg's good play in that one.)

Also now curious about Edberg's rate in the '91 USO final.

Did you do any net approach stats?

Any chance you can post some of it on youtube? You can probably show all those 33 volley winners in like 5 minutes.:)

edit:just looked up the head to head on these 2, this match sounds interesting(as far as potentially high winner counts):

Edberg d Wilander 6-2,6-1,6-1, Stockholm '86The quality's not great but not bad. Didn't order any others from that site; time is short right now so I'll be lucky to find windows here and there to post stuff.

I haven't seen the '88 AO semi. I do think that Wilander in the '90 match was a shadow of his former self. On at least two break points he put ordinary balls over the baseline in simple rallies. If Wilander does that, he's hardly Wilander anymore. Occasionally he did put some of the old pace and angle on the passing shots, but I thought he looked low on fire -- even for him -- right from the warmup. As if he was not excited about being there.

And he wasn't coming to net the way he was in '88. (I didn't take my own net stats, just got the ones from the network -- 2 points won by Wilander at net after two sets).

However, with Edberg's first-serve percentage, he wasn't going to get a good look at passing shots. It was certainly one of Edberg's best performances. I don't have stats for other Edberg matches on the serve, it would be interesting to know whether 77% was really uniquely high for him (I know he always tended to get his first serve in rather than gun for aces).

No drop volleys that I recall.

andreh
02-07-2008, 03:44 AM
I have about 30 edberg matches on tape and I followed his career as a kid.

On the question service percentages, It was common for Edberg to be in 65-80% range on first serves in until about 1992. He also frequently had a very high percentage of winning points behind his 2nd serve until this point.

One of my theories behind his decline in post 1992 is that his serve became very inconsistant compared to earlier. His second serve also seems tame in post 1992 compared to earlier. Less spinny and slower.

I have some matches where he plays just unbelievable tennis. All points seem to be serve - volley winner, or chip return - volley winner. No matter what the opponent threw at him.

He could occasionally do this not only to lesser players, but players like Becker, Lendl and Wilander.

krosero
02-07-2008, 03:22 PM
One of my theories behind his decline in post 1992 is that his serve became very inconsistant compared to earlier. His second serve also seems tame in post 1992 compared to earlier. Less spinny and slower. Good to know, I can't remember ever seeing Edberg matches after '92.

I have some matches where he plays just unbelievable tennis. All points seem to be serve - volley winner, or chip return - volley winner. No matter what the opponent threw at him. Was thinking today that one reason Edberg had such a high number of volley winners in this match is that he didn't go for aces. The idea behind kicking the serve in is to give yourself time, in order to hit the first volley as close as possible to the net.

Edberg had no aces, and 1 service winner by my count. Someone else like Becker might have had 10 of each. And on top of that there are the regular return errors (not counted as service winners), which I didn't record; but it's safe to say that Edberg didn't end points with his serve alone like some other servers.

So on those points that a Becker might have gotten cheaply, Edberg would have to hit a volley. So his number of possible volley winners would go up, just from that fact. Plus, Edberg would get a chance to get close to the net, so a somewhat higher percentage of his volleys could be angled away for winners (or smashed, if he could get the returner on the run and earn a sitter).

The comparison I made with McEnroe's 1984 W final is interesting here, because Edberg hit almost twice as many non-service winners as McEnroe. But if you throw in McEnroe's 9 aces, the comparison between them is closer.

Perhaps if McEnroe had served like Edberg, his volley winners would also have been higher.

Moose Malloy
02-07-2008, 03:59 PM
The comparison I made with McEnroe's 1984 W final is interesting here, because Edberg hit almost twice as many non-service winners as McEnroe. But if you throw in McEnroe's 9 aces, the comparison between them is closer.

Perhaps if McEnroe had served like Edberg, his volley winners would also have been higher.

I think another factor is surface. You're comparing a grasscourt match to a hardcourt match, players get a lot more unreturned serves on grass. I doubt Edberg would have had nearly as many winners if he played Wilander on grass, since Wilander would not have been able to get as many returns back.
Edberg got a lot of free points on serve at Wimbledon.

I'm seeing more volley winners from attacking players on hardcourt than grass since I started compiling stats.

krosero
02-07-2008, 04:07 PM
I think another factor is surface. You're comparing a grasscourt match to a hardcourt match, players get a lot more unreturned serves on grass. I doubt Edberg would have had nearly as many winners if he played Wilander on grass, since Wilander would not have been able to get as many returns back.
Edberg got a lot of free points on serve at Wimbledon.

I'm seeing more volley winners from attacking players on hardcourt than grass since I started compiling stats.Yes, good point, the '85 AO final is a closer comparison (to the 84W).

krosero
01-19-2010, 08:33 PM
Any chance you can post some of it on youtube? You can probably show all those 33 volley winners in like 5 minutes.:)I found this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-m6WnvG_2AA