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View Full Version : POG, MidPlus or Oversize? Which is better?


AndrewD
12-24-2004, 04:59 AM
Doing some more narrowing down of potential frames and the POG keeps coming up as a possibility.

I really dont like the new style frames (Head LM excluded), much preferring a traditional feel and think this might be a good option. Have a few doubts about the POG due to the age of the frame and technology-maybe I should be getting with the times?- but think those fears are probably groundless.

Anyway, for all those who have used it, and I know there's a truckload of you out there, what are your feelings on the two different headsizes? Part of me says I don't need an oversize, while part says I need a touch more than the 93sq in.

Im an allcourter trying to move into a serve-volley game, with very good volleys, semi-western forehand and backhand (with a strong slice approach)

I realise its a personal decision but I just wanted to see if the weight of opinion leant towards one size over the other.

Merry Christmas all

Nastase
12-24-2004, 05:23 AM
Both are great sticks. Don't be scared by the lack of technology in this racquet, in 25 yrs of trying I cant find a modern stick thats any better. 93 seems to be a good bit more demanding in terms of hitting area but for whats it worth its been said that the oversize doesn't play like an oversize. One thing thats overlooked is how durable these frames are...no funky paintjob to mess up, no decals. Some feel you cant get an oversize moving fast enough to hit a big first serve, maybe so...but it gives plenty of spin and you can really move the ball around the box with the open pattern, etc..good luck.

El Diablo
12-24-2004, 05:41 AM
I tried a bunch of 98s from the major makers this past summer and sprayed the ball around without great control, then came back to the POG 107 and found that it played more like a midplus than all the midplusses I'd used, allowing me to hit out with terrific control. I've never used the 93, but the 107 has PLENTY of control.

TripleB
12-24-2004, 05:42 AM
I'd say go with the POG mid.

TripleB

TennisMD
12-24-2004, 08:51 AM
For mear mortals. ie 4.0 to 4.5, I am perplexed at the fixation on playing with such a small head size 93. Granted my skill level was less when I demoed the POG mid but I still think. the POG OS offers much more for that level of player

TripleB
12-24-2004, 09:42 AM
I don't think one can decide what size of head a player should be using based on their skill level. If that was the case then every pro would be playing with a 85-93 sq in head (which they don't).

ALOT has to do with what feels best, offers the most of what you want, etc.

I played for the longest time with the POG Oversize and about two or three years ago switched to the POG Mid. My skill level didn't all of a sudden go up enough to play with the mid, I just liked the fact that the Mid offered ME much more control on my groundies without sacrificing any of the spin I was able to get with the oversize.

I'm willing to sacrifice a little forgiveness for much more control on my groundstokes!!!

I didn't become a better player and then have to switch to the Midsize, I switched to the Mid and have become a much better player since doing so!!!

TripleB

ollinger
12-24-2004, 10:25 AM
Does this explain why you devote so much energy to finding a racquet to use in place of the POG mid?
________
Weed bubblers (http://bubblers.net/)

TripleB
12-24-2004, 10:59 AM
I didn't say that there isn't a better racquet out there than the POG mid, I just stated that I've become a better player using the POG mid. Now that I'm a solid 4.5, maybe there is another racquet out there that will allow me to move even further up the ratings scale. Maybe there's a racquet out there that offers me even more of what I want than the POG mid does (more solid at net, slightly better touch at net, etc.).

I also put energy into trying different racquets because I enjoy it. I love trying out various racquets, even if I know they aren't for me (my playtest for TW with the Pro Kennex Ionic 15 comes to mind). I knew that there wasn't any chance of me liking that racquet but I loved the experience of playing with a racquet that I would have never considered trying. It was nice to see what it did (or did not) have to offer.

Maybe if I go with the Yonex RDX-500 Mid that I will become even a better player than I am with the POG mid...who knows?

TripleB

AndrewD
12-25-2004, 12:25 AM
Regardless of which racquet I choose I'm never going to have a consistant cannonball serve so the potentially extra spin from the 107 sounds attractive.
I learnt my tennis on an old Dunlop 200G and have no problems using a smaller head size. Personally, I have found them a little better for the serve and a bit crisper for the volleys. However, I am 36 now and a step or three slower plus the attendant injuries from playing professional football (australian rules) for almost 15 years. So, the OS might be a better option in that regard. Also, I had seen that the mid is stiffer than the os and thought it might make the os a bit more playable.
Living in Australia makes it very, very hard to playtest the POG - there's only a few places that will carry both and not many that carry even one. So, the more feedback I can get before making the long trek to demo them just makes it a lot easier for me overall.

TripleB
12-25-2004, 05:17 AM
I've played both and feel that I get more spin (or at least just as much) from the Midsize as I do from the Oversize.

TripleB

djones
12-25-2004, 06:20 AM
but is the POG really that stiff?
I mean, is it more stiff than the Head I radical?
If so, I can't see how this racquet provides enough feel and comfort.

Xevoius
12-25-2004, 08:35 AM
I have a couple of mids and 4 or 5 OS frames. I prefer the OS frame for the added power on my groundies and the fact that it is the friendliest arm racket. Check it out www.racquetresearch.com.

It is true that it is hard to serve with as much power using the OS but I think its advantages more than make up for this. I have almost completely made up for losing a few MPH on my first serve by my new return of serve.

devilish_duke
12-25-2004, 09:51 AM
I haven't played with a POG OS yet, but I have no complaints whatsoever about the mid/MP. I switched to it from an OS so my main challenge was finding the sweetspot on a consistent basis but a few intense tennis sessions solved that problem. The stiffness didn't really affect me; people say all the time that the POG OS is the safest racquet but I personally have never had problems with the mid either. Control is unbelievable (i'm strung a couple pounds below mid tension) and spin is effortless (i'm not sure if I'm even using a good spin technique). I'm not sure if the whole two-handed backhand with an OS and one-handed backhand with a mid thing is a fact, but my POG mids allow me to do both very well. About the only complaint I've ever had was that the POG mid was heavy enough to tire my arm out. By the end of my last session my elbow and shoulder were worn out, not painfully, just tired.

tennisee
12-25-2004, 01:01 PM
AndrewD - don't know if you're a 3/8 grip, but you might be interested in my pair of Warrior OS. (I now use a Volkl). They have some extra weight in handle and head, in pretty decent nick. I found it took a while trying different weights, tensions, strings to optimise them. So you could get in S/H without spending too much, muck around for a few months and see how you go. I'm 42, 6'1" 90 kg - only got hooked on tennis a couple of yrs ago when my daughter started lessons. I don't like posting my e-mail on the net but there is a contact form on my website www.davidhume.net if you're interested. cheers

Nastase
12-25-2004, 01:50 PM
Any version of the POG is generally not as stiff as many of the racquets made today. What headsize the pros play with is often a product of what you grow up playing with. Agassi, Chang, Seles, Shriver, etc all played in the hey dey of Prince and were used to the OS frame. AndrewD If you think you are slow at 36 I'dove to hear from you at 40. Aussie rules experience probably adds 5 yrs to your body age. I feel your pain...Good luck bud.

AndrewD
12-25-2004, 04:41 PM
Xevoius, I had seen the racquet research site and was heartened by their rating of the POG. Arm friendly is a definately a big plus nomatter who you are. Had a hit with the Babolat PD and felt a twinge after an hour or so although that might have a lot to do with constantly wrapping the wider frame around the ball lol.

I'm pretty much a 4 5/8ths grip tennisee, although I was thinking about getting my next frame at a smaller grip size and then having a heat sleeve put on it as its tough to get anything larger than a 4 1/2. I've heard that the TT Warrior is a good frame although not sure I wouldn't be best served by just putting out the cash for a POG. What made you go to the Volkl? Tried the Tour10mp and really didn't like it.
Enjoyed the artwork by the way. Will have to keep my eyes peeled if a collection comes to Brisbane.

Not quite super slow yet Nastase but I"m working on it lol. Sometimes I feel like its added 10 years, not 5 :D

tennisee
12-26-2004, 01:44 AM
Hi AndrewD
Had a great Boxing Day tennis arvo - 5 hrs of good social doubles and singles. I gave a Warrior to a big Rugby player who was there - not a tennis guy, but great hand/eye, and by the end of the day he was smoking. I'd use the OS if I wanted to win comps, but I am just working on improving my game, and I found the 98in Volkl Cat 10 great; a good light players' stick (+reduced price from TW), with more than enough feedback, but strung at 60 to reduce power.
I guess my situation is similar to yours - can't really demo in OZ, so buy from TW on the basis of reviews (and price) hence the OS Warrior. Great stick, but after playing for a while I was left wondering what a real players' stick would be like; a bit like, "should I start with a PS 6.0 85 and work up from there?". I found an old woody (Tilden, great nick 14oz, natural gut (!) in an Op shop for $2) and it really lets you know what's going on. This must be the benchmark for total feel, zero power. Unless you prepare and have a good old whack, the ball won't clear the net! But having said that, I've never hit a better forehand drive nor had more touch on a volley than on the few occasions when I have done the racquet justice. When I take it out against my regular hitting partner I really have to work to win a game - it's like he is playing a lesser player and me a better one, I have to be at 100% all the time not to be wiped; great fun if you can find someone to indulge you.
So the 98 Volkl I like; it keeps me on my toes. From what you have said, I'd say go for a MP players' stick - otherwise you'll always be wondering how you would have played with one... And playing with different sticks has also taught me it's mostly just wank - I can't blame my 72in woody for the fact that I was not set up!
Enjoy your tennis -

AndrewD
12-26-2004, 03:39 AM
tennisee, good to hear your Boxing Day was spent more productively than most - ie in front of the tv watching the Test match lol.

I actually started off with a Dunlop 200G (the old 85sq head McEnroe and Graf used to use) so I have a pretty good idea how a 'players' racquet feels. Still, I do have a vague feeling Im going to go with the oversize. It'll give me the chance to learn how to use a larger headsize and make the transition to old age a little easier LOL.

One question though. You're in Australia like me and have bought from TW, so how did you find the experience? Did you find any hidden costs to pay apart from the racquet, shipping and 10% GST? Also, at what point and where did you have to pay the GST?

I'm tempted to buy from TW so long as there isnt any extra to worry about. Lowest I've seen the POG here is 279 (including 20 for shipping) which is about 50 more expensive than through TW(with shipping and tax included). Be nice if I could find it locally for even 200 or a nice **** price but am sure that's just wishful thinking

equinox
12-26-2004, 06:23 AM
One question though. You're in Australia like me and have bought from TW, so how did you find the experience? Did you find any hidden costs to pay apart from the racquet, shipping and 10% GST? Also, at what point and where did you have to pay the GST?

I'm tempted to buy from TW so long as there isnt any extra to worry about. Lowest I've seen the POG here is 279 (including 20 for shipping) which is about 50 more expensive than through TW(with shipping and tax included). Be nice if I could find it locally for even 200 or a nice **** price but am sure that's just wishful thinking

Keep your total order cost including the air/fedex/etc.. shipping under $250 australian and you probably won't have to pay gst tax or customs formal importation declaration fee ($50).

Check out Australian custom importation sections.

http://www.customs.gov.au/site/page.cfm?u=4368

I apparently owe fedex $50 customs formal importation clearance brokerage fee + GST $35.

I told indian sounding fedex lady on phone, Cash On Delivery. I even asked their courier what do i need to pay...shrugs. Their courier don't collect, so they don't get their money. :)

tennisee
12-26-2004, 11:20 AM
I've bought three times from TW and found them really good. Maybe the stringing has been a smidge looser than from my local shop, but I'm not sure. I have not had to pay any GST or extras when importing. There was also a post some months ago which talked about this - someone said keep it under US $250 and you're OK, but there were conflicting reports. (eg equinox says AU$250 having checked the govt site) I don't know, but my orders were under AU $250 and there was no mention of paying anything else. It cost about US$30 for freight for either one or two racquets, so a good reason to buy two! I'd buy some extra strings, lead tape, grips etc at the same time, as they seem dear here - e.g AU$19 for Bab lead tape here c.f. $US4. I've not tried buying a bag or clothes.
It seems a bit odd - Princes seem dear here but Wilsons less so; eg AU$340 for a Diablo but $240 for an Ncode 6.1 95 where they are similar at TW.

AndrewD
12-26-2004, 02:47 PM
tennisee and equinox,
Very interesting and valuable information, thanks very much. Tennisee, I would be hesitant to bring a racquet in to the country that was strung. Have been told that airpressure can either break the string or warp the frame (if strung) so is better to remove them before shipping. Perhaps that's why you find the strings a bit looser.

Equinox, was your order over the 250AUS limit and that's why they said you owed the 50? Oh, and did FedEx deliver to you directly or did you have to pick it up at some office etc?

Im not sure if its a good idea with the POG as, when you add on the cost of shipping the cost is around 200. Ive seen it listed at 260 here so if I can get it for less, say 240, TW might not be so tempting. I'd be willing to pay that little extra for the convenience of just walking in and buying.

Of course, if TW has some kind of sale on the POG (wishful thinking lol) I might have to put in a few orders :D

tennisee
12-26-2004, 03:44 PM
I can't imagine a pressure difference hurting a racquet, but I could be wrong. Anyway, I liked the ability to choose string/tension, and the free stringing from TW makes the price better. I think I would only buy a sale racquet from TW - when I did the maths on a full price one that I could get here I thought I would get it locally, but I would not know where to get a POG in Adelaide; I guess I'd have to order it.
FedEx delivered to my door - very easy and you can follow progress via the internet - see when it's on the plane, in the van etc. Cheers

AndrewD
12-26-2004, 11:10 PM
Tennisee, Adelaide sounds a bit like Brisbane (where Im stuck at the moment), although I can't imagine it's anywhere near as culturally bereft lol. Actually can't imagine anywhere more bereft than Qld lol.

Going down to Melbourne in a couple of weeks so I'll check out the stores there. There's 2 places in particular that are especially good -Prelli's and Reynold's- and I figure if I cant get it from them at a reasonable price then it'll have to be TW. A POG from the States will be roughly 200AUS, so if I cant get it here for less than 250 I'll be filling in that order.

How long did you have to wait from placing the order to receiving your frame?

bertrevert
12-26-2004, 11:47 PM
Going down to Melbourne in a couple of weeks
Just in time for the OzOpen 8)

You sound set on the POG OS now - aren't you tempted at all by new sticks in town? I always think sure play with what you know in tennis - but, if you stood back and looked at the big picture, would you agree that racquets are getting better all the time? I know manufacturers want us to believe it's so. And it is so.

While we must stay and play with what we know for the sake of our game - we're not pros though, so a bit of downtime to get used to a new racquet is acceptable.

Anyway, no matter what you choose, there's always a honeymoon period with a new racquet...

AndrewD
12-27-2004, 12:15 AM
Bertrevert, I definately have been interested in the new racquet developments but unfortunately have been very dissapointed with what I've seen and played with. Initially I had liked the Head LM Radical MP but at close to $400 here in Australia its just a ridiculous price for a frame. Have tried the Babolat PD and Volkl Tour10 as they seem to get a lot of mentions on the board but didnt like either. Had a bash with most of the Wilson and Prince frames available to demo and wasn't impressed with them either. None feel as solid as a traditional style frame and my desire for extra power isn't as great as my desire for good 'feel' and control.

Was contemplating two new Prince frames, the NXG and the TT Graphite but they've had such poor write ups and reviews on the board and elsewhere that I felt it was a better idea to go for the original. That was disappointing as the TT Graphite is now very much in my price range.

I will also admit to getting a bit sick of the constant chop and change the manufacturers do with the racquets. Basically theyve got such a limited shelf life these days what's the point in liking one of them when you wont be able to get it in a couple of years time.

However, if you have any suggestions before I buy a POG I'd be happy to hear it and see if its available to me.

And yes, I hit Melbourne on the 16th of Jan and the Open starts the next day so will be fitting in a few days of viewing pleasure.

You've got to love the fact that at the Australian Open all you have to do is show up on the day and you can buy a ticket. No ballots, no fuss or bother. First come, first served (at least until the finals lol )

equinox
12-27-2004, 06:51 AM
Equinox, was your order over the 250AUS limit and that's why they said you owed the 50? Oh, and did FedEx deliver to you directly or did you have to pick it up at some office etc?

Yes, my order was over $250 AUS including shipping costs. Importation of goods into Australia via fedex/air over $250 AUS require you or your customs broker "fedex" "DHL" "whoever" to fill out an formal import declaration form. Australian customs cost recovery charges fedex $48.20 , fedex asks you pay, then fedex pays customs + gst. Passes on this cost to you. You pay cash on delivery or Eftpos.

You track your goods via fedex internet tracking number TW gives you. Fedex courier delivered to the door.


I would be hesitant to bring a racquet in to the country that was strung. Have been told that airpressure can either break the string or warp the frame (if strung) so is better to remove them before shipping. Perhaps that's why you find the strings a bit looser.

TW sends special shipping instructions with orders. My sticks landed in perfect condition, no signs of warping. I wasn't sure if the string tension may be looser from the air travel. So added 2lbs extra tension from my usual 60lbs.

Free strings "wilson stamina 16" are average and free stringing service was fair value. Though i'll probably end up cutting them out and replacing them with hurricane poly+syngut hybrid in early mid january.

How long did you have to wait from placing the order to receiving your frame?

Placed order on 9th december. TW received WU money order and sent on 16th, package was delivered by 21st december.

So less than 2 weeks. Not bad. :D

tennisee
12-27-2004, 11:53 AM
Yes - I paid by credit card and my orders were strung and dispatched within 24hrs I think. Arrived less than a week later, but check the price/delivery guidlines, it always came within suggested times. I reckon equinox's idea of stringing 2 lbs tighter is a good one.

AndrewD
12-27-2004, 12:30 PM
Equinox and Tennisee, thanks very much. Good to hear you've had no problems ordering through TW, gives me confidence when I do the same. Between 1 and 2 weeks,depending on how you pay, sounds good to me. I bought a few things through **** that took just as long and they were only coming from interstate. Also, from what you've said I'd be confidant having them come in strung and wait to restring when I decide what tension and string is best.

Thanks again. Nice to hear and get some really good feedback from fellow Australians who understand the problems we can have out here when it comes to accessing the full range of tennis products.