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galain
03-03-2008, 11:57 PM
This is just a post out of curiosity, not because I'm planning any new purchases in the immediate future.

Most people on this board who have read my posts know of my undying affection for the old Rossi F200 - the flexiest frame I've ever played. And yes - I like old school racquets, but I'm not averse to new models either if they are good racquets that feel nice and play well. And I know I will never find anything that flexes like the Rossignol these days. I currently use a PT 630 which I really enjoy, and before that a Volkl Cat 10 - which I also enjoyed.

So - after the past few weeks where I play tested some supposedly soft feeling modern frames I'm left scratching my head. Is this what passes for flexible these days?

The Wilson N Blade. I found it very light and much too stiff for it's weight. It has a sweetspot that feels quite nice on contact, but I wouldn't in a pink fit describe this as a flexible bat, which i have heard before.

Babolat's Pure Storm Tour. I've read on these boards people saying they can actually feel this frame bend on impact. Excuse me? Stiff. Stiff stiff stiff. Felt stiffer than (but still quite similar to) the N Blade. The stringjob was tighter, but for the 'flexy' model in Babolats lineup it sure aint doing itself any favours with that label.

Both of these were strung with synthetic gut too.

Finally, I played with an RDX 500 (90). The so called 'buttery' feeling Yonex. Now I will make allowances for this as it did have a poly set up, but buttery isn't a word I'd describe it with. Solid - yes. I liked the way it hit. Nice control, Good power, good solid feedback. Solid. Soft? Not even. Volkl's C10 is significantly more 'buttery'. I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the Yonex because I now own it, but i was quite disappointed that the reputed soft feel I'd heard about was nowhere to be seen. Perhaps a softer string job would have made a difference, but there wasn't much I could tell about the frame that would make me call it soft.

So what gives? I refuse to believe I'm that out of touch -I play test often and enjoy trying new things. I have certain likes and dislikes, as we all do. I am a child of the 80's and love the racquets of that era, but I don't pick up every new stick hellbent on a mission to compare it to those made 20+ years ago.

Of the racquets I've tried in the last few years that are still being made, the C10 I would call soft and the MSpeed I would allow has a certain degree of flex to it as well.

But what else? If I can't discern the softer qualities of the supposedly soft N Blade, Pure Storm or (God forbid) the RDX 500, what is there out there for me if I ever decide to pick up some new models at some point in the future?

SFrazeur
03-04-2008, 12:04 AM
The Pure Storm Tour has a mildly stiff feel, with a firm, but there, flex.

The RDX 500 MID has a lot of flex, in fact too much flex a certain way in the throat that causes it to have bad directional control problems when hit at a hard pace. Too soft.

Have you tried the Wilson nFury? RDC of 50.

-SF

Duzza
03-04-2008, 12:21 AM
Dunlop Aerogel 200, Fischer racquets seem to have pretty nice flex.

Mike Bulgakov
03-04-2008, 12:36 AM
You might want to try a Fischer M Comp 95 or Tecnifibre TFlight 335. Volkl is releasing a C10 with new cosmetics; it may have other changes as well. I wish I could find a racquet like the PT 630 today.

fleetparadox
03-04-2008, 12:40 AM
Pro Kennex Redondo Mid - it has a wet noodle feel for those who like it.

Prince NXG Mid - dead hoop

Volkl DNX 10 Mid - Super flexy, with power to boot.

Donnay Pro 1 International - Hoping this might be my future stick.

jayserinos99
03-04-2008, 12:47 AM
I'll second the Donnay Pro 1 Intl and the OS as pretty flexy sticks. The Intl reminded me of a more flexy 6.0 95 with more weight in the head. The OS felt like a lighter swinging and flexier POG OS. Speaking of Prince, the POG LB is a very flexy frame as well.

officerdibble
03-04-2008, 01:02 AM
I've heard it said that all graphite is getting lighter and stiffer (because it's produced for the aerospace industry primarily). If this is true your experience would make sense. I wonder if manufacturers are achieving the lower-end flex ratings through some elemenet of racket design rather than the inherent properties of the material it's made from?

AndrewD
03-04-2008, 01:07 AM
Galain,

Have you considered a racquet from Kmart or Target. You often find those budget frames are extremely flexible and a quick 'flex/bend test' would confirm it. Otherwise, if flex is your top priority you could try an aluminium racquet. Most of them haven't progressed since the days of the Prince Pro and, compared to today's ultra stiff frames, they have a lot of 'give'.

Otherwise, I think the C10 is your best option.

BreakPoint
03-04-2008, 01:14 AM
Yup, the Donnay Pro One Int'l is pretty flexy so I would categorize it as a "modern flexible frame".

AlpineCadet
03-04-2008, 01:16 AM
I can only recommend what I've hit with.. the AG200/300, LM/FXP Prestiges, MG Radicals, K95 Team, Head ProTour630/280, Prince Original Graphite OS, and Redondo Type C all felt noticeably flexible/comfortable.

astra
03-04-2008, 01:23 AM
C10 Pro - I tested it approx. 10 years ago, a candidate to my the best of all time, the only setback for me was 98 inch. head on 1HB. I have to try again, because I have meantime changed the backhand grip.

Fischer MSpeed no.1 (heavy version) - big disappointment, one of the least playable racquets for me, stiff. I tested twice and never again.

Wilson NBlade - exactly as per Galain`s description

ProKennex Redondo Mid - I would like to test, but it is not available in my region, none of my friends has it. I believe PK Mid could be interesting, flexy with good feel, I played/tested other ProKennex in the past. It has been long time since I played with 90/93 frames, I do not know whether is it comfortable enough for me now and I am not going to buy blind. As for MP, I imagine it plays similar to my LM Prestige MP, btw, I also consider the LMP Mid/MP reasonably flexy frames.

MG Prestige Pro/MP - ??? (to be tested soon)

galain
03-04-2008, 05:11 AM
Thanks for the replies, all.

Many of the frames mentioned I haven't had the pleasure of hitting with. The Donnay's and the Redondo both sound like they have a bit of the flexibilty that i was enquiring, and the Aerogels sounded interesting at first, but if they're anything like the MFil series then I also found those stiff and not too comfortable.

Jay - I've never played the POG longbody, but the regular length one isn't a flexible stick to my way of thinking. Very solid, for sure, but not a lot of give.

Andrew - strange you should mention that- I have a couple of aluminium Red Head's lying around, as well as a couple of Prince Classics. Like I said, I'm not looking for a new stick, but I may just take these for a whirl.

movdqa
03-04-2008, 05:18 AM
I have several Red Heads around too and you can feel the head wobble after hitting the ball after using modern frames. You can feel the side flex too. I haven't used them in about two years but the feeling going from a modern frame is very noticeable. If I hit with them for a little while, the wobble and flex doesn't become noticeable.

fuzz nation
03-04-2008, 05:25 AM
The thing that I've found with the nBlade as well as the Fischer M-Speed Pro #1 is that they have pretty firm hoops and more crispy feel, but are flexible overall. Flimsy throats I guess and some folks like it, but it didn't occur to me that they were the same as the softies from the 80's.

The NXG mid and Donnay are the two that I think are truly flexible present day frames. My NXG is 13.0 oz. unmodified and the sweetspot feels gi-normous, probably because the racquet is so soft - I'd say it feels more like a 56 rating than a 61. It gets knocked for its lack of feel, but I like its feel much more than the the LM Prestige mid. With its heft, I can really smoke the ball with it when I want, but I can also deal a ton of spin, and maneuver it quite well up at net.

The Donnay is so flexible that it has only moderate power, but the feel and control I get with it are what sold me. The C10 has some of the old school layout, but with just a little more backbone that helps me punch the ball a little better. I think the C10 Pro is one of the best all court frames around and it has a healthy range for dialing in its behavior with different strings.

Hedges
03-04-2008, 05:59 AM
I'm an F200 fan and have similar experiences with all the modern frames.

Try the POG Longbody.
The POG Longbody hits nothing like the regular POGs; it's much flexier than specs. Normally, a big 100 sq in head would have a sweetspot position that is much different than a small headed racket like the F200. But, the extra inch length moves the sweetspot up. I'd be very interested to read another F200 fan's opinion of the POGLB.

The Redondo Mid - sorry, but I don't think you'd like this racket; it's just not solid feeling enough coming from the F200. There's a hollow feeling to the Redondo Mid. That being said, I did have good results (scores) with this racket.

I hope to try the TW Donnay soon. I wish it had a little more Fiberglass and a smaller head, but I'll take whatever I can get!

movdqa
03-04-2008, 06:12 AM
I like the flex in the Redondo and I think that it fills a nice niche but I wish that they had something in the 12.3 or 12.4 ounce area. I think that this would fix the "not solid enough" feeling. I think that many players like a 12 ounce racquet through. I considered adding lead but I like to play stock these days.

slice bh compliment
03-04-2008, 06:27 AM
I'm a flex guy, too.

Definitely, the Volkl c 10 pro.

I think there is a model by Tom Avery that would fit the bill.

The HEAD microgel Prestige Pro is good. 98 head, 16 mains, pretty flexible, great feel. It's no Rossignol F200, but it's current and easily available.

Volkl tour 10 v engine MID. Plenty of fiberglass in it. And cheap right now.

Babolat will be coming out in April with a Pure Storm Limited. 95 head, 19mm beam, 320 grams, leather grip. Woofer system, which does make a 65 RA stick feel softer than 65.

Dunlop Aerogel 1hundred and 2hundred.

I also think that if you take a frame that's slightly stiffer than you like, and you string it up properly, the strings help you find the feel you want at net and the frame can give you a little more power and accuracy on the groundstrokes. I use gut mains at 58 and Hurricane crosses at 54.

Best of luck!

Hedges
03-04-2008, 06:35 AM
I

I also think that if you take a frame that's slightly stiffer than you like, and you string it up properly, the strings help you find the feel you want at net and the frame can give you a little more power and accuracy on the groundstrokes. I use gut mains at 58 and Hurricane crosses at 54.

Best of luck!

So what's the trick to accomplishing this? Is it the combination of gut with poly? Lower tension?

slice bh compliment
03-04-2008, 06:41 AM
So what's the trick to accomplishing this? Is it the combination of gut with poly? Lower tension?

YEs, and yes. THis is what I have had good luck with over the past four years as I transitioned from very flexible frames (Volkl c and tour 10s) with very high tensions (65 to 68) to slightly stiffer frames (Dunlop ag200, Babolat Storm Tour, HEAD prestige Pro, Volkl dnx 10, BB11) with lower tensions.

For the record, this might be the best example. I feel the n and k 90s are way too stiff for my tastes, but if you put something durable and sort of soft like Wilson stamina in the mains and something lively like Babolat Xcel/Volkl PowerFiber/Sensation/Dunlop Max COmfort in the crosses, that racquet plays really great and is more palatable to the flex fans like galain, myself and many others.

dr_punk
03-04-2008, 06:42 AM
maybe i'm crazy, but I find my PS 6.0 China relatively flexy... maybe compared to st. vincents.

Brent Pederson
03-04-2008, 07:21 AM
Try the fxp prestige midplus team. Flex is about 57. Needs a bit of lead, but definitely old school feeling...

max
03-04-2008, 08:18 AM
The Pro Staff 6.0/95 might do it, too.

I'm pretty convinced the whole "stiff is better" thing is a marketing ploy. It's a matter of taste, in my experience. I don't notice much, if any, speed falloff, when I switched out of my old widebody.

Hedges
03-04-2008, 08:28 AM
I never felt the flex people talk about in the PS6.0 95. Perhaps it's flexier in the hoop and not in the throat? I dunno...I just didn't feel it.

galain
03-04-2008, 09:01 AM
The 6.0 95 is a very nice frame for sure, and I did enjoy hitting with it a lot.

The string suggestion is one worth exploring. I'm usually rather blase about my strings, but I really should pay more attention to them.As I was saying with the Yonex, I think the strings really counted against it when i was hitting with it.

As for the POG longbody - I will surely see if I can put my hands on one to try out. I've had mixed feelings about longer frames but am happy to play around.

Flexpoint Radical was a strange one. It flexed alright, but seemed to lack feel. Maybe the strings? I'll keep an eye open for the Prestige Team version as well.

Thanks again!

goober
03-04-2008, 09:06 AM
You want flex in a new racquet? Try the Wilson nFury Two with a RA of 50. :) Lead it up a little and you are set.

uabucks
03-04-2008, 09:28 AM
rdx 500 MP--much more flexy than the midsize

volkl dnx10 mp ( also nice and flexy)

dunlop mfil200 (97 sq inch) thin beam and very flexy--the RA is wrong

PK redondo or core1 #6 both old school

Donnay pro one

matchmaker
03-04-2008, 01:34 PM
The ones I have tried
Redondo mid
RA 57 but maybe not the flexible feeling you are looking for. It is a graphite flex if that makes any sense too you. You would have to try it out to know what I am talking about.

Volkl VE Tour 10 mid
RA 60 but feels actually flexier. One of the softest frames I have ever hit with. Incredible on touch shots and still decent power if you can provide good technique.

Wilson nFury midplus
RA 50 Terrible in stock condition. The flex plus the granny weight (less than 10 oz.) make this the least powerful racquet out there. Even slices won't come of your racquet unless you take a full swing at them, which is not really the way slices should be performed. However, lead it up with 50 to 70 gr. lead tape and it will become a much better and very enjoyable racquet.

I also like flexy frames and my unequalled frame is the Wilson Reflex 85 s.i. if it had more spin and more action on the upper hoop I would never even consider another frame.

Never tried but hearsay
The Volkl C10pro
RA 63 but seems to play a lot softer. Upper hoop reputed to be dead

SteveI
03-04-2008, 01:40 PM
This is just a post out of curiosity, not because I'm planning any new purchases in the immediate future.

Most people on this board who have read my posts know of my undying affection for the old Rossi F200 - the flexiest frame I've ever played. And yes - I like old school racquets, but I'm not averse to new models either if they are good racquets that feel nice and play well. And I know I will never find anything that flexes like the Rossignol these days. I currently use a PT 630 which I really enjoy, and before that a Volkl Cat 10 - which I also enjoyed.

So - after the past few weeks where I play tested some supposedly soft feeling modern frames I'm left scratching my head. Is this what passes for flexible these days?

The Wilson N Blade. I found it very light and much too stiff for it's weight. It has a sweetspot that feels quite nice on contact, but I wouldn't in a pink fit describe this as a flexible bat, which i have heard before.

Babolat's Pure Storm Tour. I've read on these boards people saying they can actually feel this frame bend on impact. Excuse me? Stiff. Stiff stiff stiff. Felt stiffer than (but still quite similar to) the N Blade. The stringjob was tighter, but for the 'flexy' model in Babolats lineup it sure aint doing itself any favours with that label.

Both of these were strung with synthetic gut too.

Finally, I played with an RDX 500 (90). The so called 'buttery' feeling Yonex. Now I will make allowances for this as it did have a poly set up, but buttery isn't a word I'd describe it with. Solid - yes. I liked the way it hit. Nice control, Good power, good solid feedback. Solid. Soft? Not even. Volkl's C10 is significantly more 'buttery'. I'm not saying I didn't enjoy the Yonex because I now own it, but i was quite disappointed that the reputed soft feel I'd heard about was nowhere to be seen. Perhaps a softer string job would have made a difference, but there wasn't much I could tell about the frame that would make me call it soft.

So what gives? I refuse to believe I'm that out of touch -I play test often and enjoy trying new things. I have certain likes and dislikes, as we all do. I am a child of the 80's and love the racquets of that era, but I don't pick up every new stick hellbent on a mission to compare it to those made 20+ years ago.

Of the racquets I've tried in the last few years that are still being made, the C10 I would call soft and the MSpeed I would allow has a certain degree of flex to it as well.

But what else? If I can't discern the softer qualities of the supposedly soft N Blade, Pure Storm or (God forbid) the RDX 500, what is there out there for me if I ever decide to pick up some new models at some point in the future?

Hi,

How about the Gamma G325

Midplus Specs
Head Size:
95 sq. in. / 613 sq. cm.
Length: 27 inches / 69 cm
Strung Weight: 12oz / 340g
Balance: 11pts Head Light
Swingweight: 307
Stiffness: 58
Beam Width: 20 mm Straight Beam
Composition: High Modulus Graphite
Power Level: Low
Swing Speed: Fast
Grip Type: Gamma Hi-Tech
String Pattern:
16 Mains / 18 Crosses
Mains skip: 8T,8H
Two Piece
No shared holes
String Tension: 55-65 pounds

Pushmaster
03-04-2008, 03:58 PM
galain, since you seem to be into wet noodles you should definitely try the C10 Pro (if you havn't already). You might like the RDX 500 mid, but it doesn't feel as flexible or solid as the C10.

Pushmaster
03-04-2008, 04:04 PM
BTW, you should try to get your hands on an Estusa Power Beam Pro, or Puma Super. You would love these sticks.

Dennis Anyone?
03-04-2008, 05:13 PM
Here's another vote for the Donnay.

I'm also a flex fan who came of tennis age in the 80s.

I've suggested before that the Donnay is a great blend of the best characteristics of the RDX 500 Mid and the Volkl Tour 10 MP Gen I.

The Donnay feels softer than either, but with the addition of lead, doesn't get pushed around by 'tweeners.

Demo it forthwith, sir!

chair ump
03-04-2008, 05:31 PM
G-

Your search is over...

Pro Kennex Type R

Regards,

-Ump

hyogen
03-06-2008, 02:43 PM
Try the fxp prestige midplus team. Flex is about 57. Needs a bit of lead, but definitely old school feeling...

i agree. very flexy. feels like a prestige for sure. needs a little lead. yep -_- i might go back to this racquet.

goober
03-06-2008, 03:27 PM
G-

Your search is over...

Pro Kennex Type R

Regards,

-Ump

If you choose this racquet, your search has just begone. Good luck trying to find these racquets.:) You will probably have to get them off the auction site.

meowmix
03-06-2008, 05:52 PM
Hi,

How about the Gamma G325

Midplus Specs
Head Size:
95 sq. in. / 613 sq. cm.
Length: 27 inches / 69 cm
Strung Weight: 12oz / 340g
Balance: 11pts Head Light
Swingweight: 307
Stiffness: 58
Beam Width: 20 mm Straight Beam
Composition: High Modulus Graphite
Power Level: Low
Swing Speed: Fast
Grip Type: Gamma Hi-Tech
String Pattern:
16 Mains / 18 Crosses
Mains skip: 8T,8H
Two Piece
No shared holes
String Tension: 55-65 pounds

Never played with the 325, but one of its predecessors, the Gamma Ipex 7.0 MP flexes quite a bit. This was the first racket that truly flexed: on my first overhead, I felt it curve practically in half and thought I broke the racket. It's still the same now: anytime I hit a shot really hard, I can feel the racket curving on me.

iplaybetter
03-06-2008, 05:59 PM
isn't the 335 fairly flexy, and so buttery yummy

SteveI
03-06-2008, 06:10 PM
Never played with the 325, but one of its predecessors, the Gamma Ipex 7.0 MP flexes quite a bit. This was the first racket that truly flexed: on my first overhead, I felt it curve practically in half and thought I broke the racket. It's still the same now: anytime I hit a shot really hard, I can feel the racket curving on me.

Hi,

That is some flex. The frame that really is the "mother" of the G325 is the Gamma Tradition 18. Almost the same flex (60 for the Trad 18 ) and specs but rock solid. I just picked one up. I have never hit with the Ipex 7.0 MP but I have heard it was just a bad frame in many respects. Some have called it the worst frame they have ever played. That is saying something, since most folks here have played quite a # of frames. I was looking to try the G310 as I have been told it is a much better version of Ipex 7.0 MP.

Regards,
Steve

meowmix
03-06-2008, 06:36 PM
Hi,

That is some flex. The frame that really is the "mother" of the G325 is the Gamma Tradition 18. Almost the same flex (60 for the Trad 18 ) and specs but rock solid. I just picked one up. I have never hit with the Ipex 7.0 MP but I have heard it was just a bad frame in many respects. Some have called it the worst frame they have ever played. That is saying something, since most folks here have played quite a # of frames. I was looking to try the G310 as I have been told it is a much better version of Ipex 7.0 MP.

Regards,
Steve

For me, the Ipex works fine. I enjoy the racket flexing on those really hard hit shots, because I know exactly what I'm putting on. It's a great frame if you're not all that into an insanely solid feel: there's quite a bit of vibration (even with a dampener), and the shot never really feels quite as solid as, say, with a Liquidmetal Radical or K 6-1 95. Volleys aren't that hot either: although the racket's swingweight is quite low, you just can't get enough feel for those touch volleys. However, for a high school player (I guess I'm between a 3.5 and a 4.0), it's good enough for me.

ced
04-23-2008, 12:58 PM
Hi,

How about the Gamma G325


SteveI has hit the nail on the head! The G325 has an absolutely wonderful feel to it. It really is a great stick.

NoBadMojo
04-23-2008, 01:49 PM
From the Volkl family, other than the c10, you could pick any of the frames w. fibreglass in them..thats' old school to me..even older school than graphite as the first composites were fiberglass..frames like the yamaha YFG30...so I would recommend the 10VEMid, the Gen2, and the DNX10Mid.

I also think the Fischer pro1's have a nice bit of flex to them albeit not in the head

Seacoast Stringer
04-23-2008, 02:02 PM
From the Volkl family, other than the c10, you could pick any of the frames w. fibreglass in them..thats' old school to me..even older school than graphite as the first composites were fiberglass..frames like the yamaha YFG30...so I would recommend the 10VEMid, the Gen2, and the DNX10Mid.

I also think the Fischer pro1's have a nice bit of flex to them albeit not in the head

That Tour 10 Gen II had some nice flex & feel to it....I second that one.

Thor
04-23-2008, 02:19 PM
FXP Radical Tour

matchmaker
04-23-2008, 07:47 PM
an update to my former post:

The Donnay Pro One International MP is a modern flexible frame. At 58 RA it is certainly to be categorized under flexible and it has graphite and fiberglass in its lay up. It is a very versatile racquet with which you can hit any shot in the game. Very recommendable to try out.

Djokovicfan4life
04-23-2008, 07:53 PM
Definitely demo the M pro and Comp 95, Fischer frames are kind of a love/hate thing though.

Say Chi Sin Lo
04-23-2008, 08:56 PM
NXG mid is very flexible

etd
04-23-2008, 09:31 PM
Head Microgel Radical MP

Deuce
04-23-2008, 09:48 PM
What was considered "stiff" in the 1980s is now considered "flexible".
That's the problem.

the wise wizard
04-23-2008, 09:52 PM
donnay pro one int'l, very flexi indeed

but as you can see i am a bit biased

BreakPoint
04-23-2008, 10:20 PM
What was considered "stiff" in the 1980s is now considered "flexible".
That's the problem.
Exactly! Back in the 80's, I thought the PS 6.0 85 was ridiculously stiff, especially compared to the Dunlop Max 200G I was using at the time. Now, I consider the PS 6.0 85 to be pretty flexible compared to today's "modern" racquets.

ilian
09-07-2008, 11:38 PM
I like flexible racquets too. As a matter of fact, I can say that I very much dislike stiff frames. The stiffer it is, the less I like it. That is especially true if the racquet is also light. In other words, the tendency of making stiffer and lighter frames nowadays kills me. I want to go back to the eighties... Oh well, I will have to keep looking for the most flexible contemporary frame that is at least 12 oz. I read through most of this thread and I saw a lot of suggestions. One of these was that Dunlop M-Fill was flexible... Well, having in mind that I love the MAX 200G, I completely disagree with that statement. Anyway, good luck to all with your search of a flexible frame that suits your game!

mrw
09-08-2008, 06:09 AM
i haven't tried most of the racquets here but I will cast a strong vote for the Donnay Pro One

mawashi
09-08-2008, 06:21 AM
Most everyone I know who has used the Yonex RQIS 1 tour says it plays way soft.

The flexible throat may appeal to you but it's bout as powerful as a broom to my friends.

mawashi
________
Paxil sickness (http://www.classactionsettlements.org/lawsuit/paxil/)

markwillplay
09-08-2008, 06:22 AM
I have played with many of these and of all of them, the Donny Pro one int is the most flexy feeling to me. It does have a feeling of having weight in the top of the hoop that pulls the head through if you like that. I think I will get a couple again just to have them. After having been around the demo block for over a year, I settled on the head mic prestige pro's and absolutely love them...so very versitile..god control, good spin but you can indeed flatten out....but they are not flexable to me. Mine measure 65n and 66 on a babolat machine and that is fairly stiff. The Donnays "felt" way more flexable and soft. they are the softest most flexable sticks that I have played with since coming back to tennis over 2 years ago..and that includes the c10. with

dman72
09-08-2008, 06:38 AM
LM Radical oversize is the most flexible graphite frame I've ever hit with. I added a bunch of lead to the hoop when I was using it, and I swear it felt like the ball was in the string bed for half second, the thing flexed so much. I know there are a few sticks with lower specs, but this reminds me of some of the aluminum frames I learned to play with.