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Josherer
03-04-2008, 02:07 AM
Hey guys,

I searched the forum but couldn't find much...

As stated in the tittle, what strings play closest to gut form everyone's experiences..

Thanks. :)

nickb
03-04-2008, 02:13 AM
A gut hybrid. :)

Nick

Valjean
03-04-2008, 03:08 AM
Depends on the gut, these days.

If your taste is Babolat's VS, though, you might find Wilson's K-Gut Pro to your liking. Those who, for whatever reason, tend to BDE's Performance might enjoy Babolat's Xcel Power.

There is no true equivalent for Pacific's Prime yet.

Bad Dog
03-04-2008, 03:50 AM
I agree with Valjean. I found K-Gut, and K-Gut Pro to have about 90% of Babolat VS natural gut playing characteristics including spin, touch/feel and especially arm-friendly.

And for most of us who do not string our own racquets, installing natural gut, including the cost of labor, is often about 50% more expensive to twice as expensive as K-Gut/K-Gut Pro. Since they last about the same time, K-Gut/K-Gut Pro may be one of the best deals in tennis.

I would also recommend against pre-stretching K-Gut Pro.

iplaybetter
03-04-2008, 04:19 AM
having only used gut in hybrids it seems quite a lot like x-1

Lambsscroll
03-04-2008, 05:24 AM
BDE rally Natural Gut gut is 2 dollars more than K-Gut.

nickb
03-04-2008, 06:54 AM
BDE rally Natural Gut gut is 2 dollars more than K-Gut.

True...why use a imitation string when you can use the real thing for only a few $2 more...for a few dollors the increase in performance is massive. Babolat tonic is only a few $ more expensive too...

Nick

Pro_Tour_630
03-04-2008, 07:25 AM
as the rest I agree with valjean,

total disregard to guage as usual which is the most important aspect when selecting a string IMO.

It is funny how people who want to spend just a few bucks more do not realize that the thinest rally comes in 16g 1.30 while Kgut does come in 17g 1.27mm. To someone that does not care about diameter/guage and only care about durability then yes spend the extra few bucks and get the real thing, but there are some out there that care for thinner string because they perform better with thinner strings and would go for the Kgut over rally and the three bucks difference is out the window in this case.

that is the same reason between Klip 1.20mm and NRG/biphase 1.18mm only the difference in $ is even larger in this case $10

nickb
03-04-2008, 07:39 AM
as the rest I agree with valjean,

total disregard to guage as usual which is the most important aspect when selecting a string IMO.

It is funny how people who want to spend just a few bucks more do not realize that the thinest rally comes in 16g 1.30 while Kgut does come in 17g 1.27mm. To someone that does not care about diameter/guage and only care about durability then yes spend the extra few bucks and get the real thing, but there are some out there that care for thinner string because they perform better with thinner strings and would go for the Kgut over rally and the three bucks difference is out the window in this case.

that is the same reason between Klip 1.20mm and NRG/biphase 1.18mm only the difference in $ is even larger in this case $10

1.27 is more like a 16....not many people if ANY would notice or more importantly care.

Pro_Tour_630
03-04-2008, 07:48 AM
1.27 is more like a 16....not many people if ANY would notice or more importantly care.
no it is more like 16L get your facts straight , nick why do they even have measurements of 15, 15L 16 16L 17 17L 18 18L etc... why bother? hey they all play the same right, who cares!?!?!?

as usual you keep on saying you do not care yet you keep responding to my posts.

I know you can tell the difference between a 17g 1.25mm and a 16g 1.30mm of the same string. but in this case one string is 1.27mm and the other is 1.30mm that is .03mm apart .

heck I can tell the difference in gauge between a string that is 1.18mm and the other that is 1.20mm which is even less .02mm difference.

Believe it or not nickb there are some people who are sensitive to gauge thickness and you being one of them. It is really a shame that you will skirt/dismiss this known fact which deep inside you agree to just so you can maintain your faulty argument. sad really

here is one and me and you, that makes three that we know believe me there are more. your average 4.0 and below hack would not know nor care, I give you that

I've experimented w/ polys (which is where the "I've convinced myself I can tell the difference between 16 & 16L" came from),

nickb
03-04-2008, 07:55 AM
no it is more like 16L get your facts straight

as usual you keep on saying you do not care yet you keep responding to my posts.

I know you can tell the difference between a 17g 1.25mm and a 16g 1.30mm of the same string. but in this case one string is 1.27mm and the other is 1.30mm that is .03mm apart .

heck I can tell the difference in gauge between a string that is 1.18mm and the other that is 1.20mm which is even less .02mm difference.

Believe it or not nickb there are some people who are sensitive to gauge thickness and you being one of them. It is really a shame that you will skirt/dismiss this known fact which deep inside you agree to just so you can maintain your faulty argument. sad really

I dont know 1 advanced player that cares about how thick a string is around here...that includes the ATP players I string for and other highly ranked mens open players. (they all use 16g or 15g)

Yes I can tell the differnece between a 1.20 and a 1.18 string just like you but it does not bother me...I like 16g..its what I have always used.

Many advanced players have to use a thicker string as 17g is just too fragile..

Nick

Pro_Tour_630
03-04-2008, 08:12 AM
I dont know 1 advanced player that cares about how thick a string is around here...that includes the ATP players I string for and other highly ranked mens open players. (they all use 16g or 15g)

Yes I can tell the differnece between a 1.20 and a 1.18 string just like you but it does not bother me...I like 16g..its what I have always used.

Many advanced players have to use a thicker string as 17g is just too fragile..

Nick
finally we agree thank you, you are right advanced players can play with just about anything even chicken wire and are able to perform. It does not bother you but it bothers me especially on second serves. I wish it did not, I really do, but it does, the action I get from thinner strings is massive, especially when I win most of my points on seconds. I can only give you my experience with the 5.0-5.5 players i regularly play with. I hate the fact that I am stuck with this PT630 which is dense, I do not have this problem with the OPEN prestige pro but then other problems come up where the Pro is not as stable and I do not have directional control nor feel as well as the PT630, it is a dilema for me I know. I know you know what I am talking about which is why you give a damn since you strung your frame many time last year and I commend you for that, it means you care and are sensitive to your strings

Rabbit
03-04-2008, 09:08 AM
Then again, there was the story floating around about Nadal. Babolat sent him the wrong gauge string, 17 instead of 15L and no one including Nadal's stringer caught it. Nadal was practicing and in a mini-panic because he was hitting everything long. The report was the culprit was the gauge... thoughts?

bsandy
03-04-2008, 09:29 AM
Then again, there was the story floating around about Nadal. Babolat sent him the wrong gauge string, 17 instead of 15L and no one including Nadal's stringer caught it. Nadal was practicing and in a mini-panic because he was hitting everything long. The report was the culprit was the gauge... thoughts?

I can't imagine this, unless the stringer was absolutly clueless about what Rafa usually used.

. . . Bud

bsandy
03-04-2008, 09:37 AM
Okay this is a true story . . .

I was working the stringer's desk for the 2006 RCA championships. I was sorting through some of Tommy Haas' racquets and noticed one had VS 1.25 and the rest had VS 1.30.

The lady I was working with called his coach (who is the one who dropped off the racquets, to her), and got no answer. She called Tommy, and he said he uses 1.30. So.=, we set the racquet with 1.25 aside and strung the others.

Later on that day, Tommy's coach came by to drop off some 1.30, for the other stick. He said, "Next time put the string in I left, and don't ever call Tommy".

This basically told me, according to his coach Tommy couldn't tell the difference.

Tommy basically exlpoded, the next match. He was yelling at his coach, the whole time. After the match, he walked over to the ball kids and gave them his racquets.

. . . Bud

Pro_Tour_630
03-04-2008, 10:17 AM
look at the VS 17g that TW currently carry they make it a point that is the 1.25mm in the tile do you see that in other titles?, the 17g VS gauges they use to carry in the past were 1.27mm, not sure if any of you remember that batch, I remember clearly I hated the older batch of 17g VS that TW had. And that was only .02mm difference.

Like I said NG is "natural" and sometimes you get inconsistency in guage. what separates the big boys from the little boys is being able to identify this issue and be able to make them as close as possible. You don't have this problem with Premium Multis.

It seems, Tommy is sensitive to gauge, he can play with 1.30mm but to have optimal performance in that match he preferred the 1.25mm that day. It all depends on different opponents, surface, ball, condition, altitude etc. as well.

Pro_Tour_630
03-04-2008, 10:28 AM
Then again, there was the story floating around about Nadal. Babolat sent him the wrong gauge string, 17 instead of 15L and no one including Nadal's stringer caught it. Nadal was practicing and in a mini-panic because he was hitting everything long. The report was the culprit was the gauge... thoughts?
during the australian open nadal was getting his butt kicked by simon. all of the sudden nadal looked and his coach, pointed to his strings and shook his head in disgust, went over to his bag and picked up another stick, all of the sudden there was a dramatic difference in his performance, he could not miss, I dont know what is was? most likely tension rather than guage or both? dunno , anyone see that match ?

nickb
03-04-2008, 10:31 AM
during the australian open nadal was getting his butt kicked by simon. all of the sudden nadal looked and his coach, pointed to his strings and shook his head in disgust, went over to his bag and picked up another stick, all of the sudden there was a dramatic difference in his performance, he could not miss, I dont know what is was? most likely tension rather than guage or both? dunno , anyone see that match ?

Id imagine nadal would have been able to tell within a few shots in the warm up...I dont think it would take a while for him to realise he had the wrong string.

Nick

YULitle
03-04-2008, 10:32 AM
bsandy: a pro I worked with one time told me that he was stringing a tour circuit match in houston when Philapousis (sp?) came in with racquets and string. Left them to be strung. His coach came in behind him and said to take the green fuzz out of the racquets he actually used, re-stencil them and not to restring them (poly strings.) Place them in plastic bags and give the coach the packets of string. The pro still got paid, but the story is the same as above.

Azzurri
03-04-2008, 10:44 AM
Back to the ORIGINAL post...

Why would anyone want a multi that plays like gut? I assume the price? Well I was one of those people. I tried at least 8-10 multi's and never liked them much. The main problem was they would go dead in ajust a few hours, sometimes within a set!! So made the switch to gut and thought why not hybrid (since many posters claim most of the racquets feel is from the mains), so now my string costs $13..cheaper than most good multi's and play a lot better to boot (hold tension very well).

bsandy
03-04-2008, 10:44 AM
NRG2 for about a set.

. . . Bud

YULitle
03-04-2008, 10:49 AM
^^^

yeah . . . I think I heard you say that, before. That's just wierd.

Oh, sorry bout beating a dead horse. :D It's my only funny story about pros. :D

I have a great one about customers though. I had someone come back complaining about the tension, "Too tight," they say. "Stringers fault!" So, being in a customer service-happy business I'm allowed to say, okee-dokee and make it right. I put it to the side and go to lunch. The guy comes back and wants the racquet. Co-worker looks at racquet, sees it's just been strung and says here you go!

I come back and am obviously in a panic, where's the racquet? Co-worker says it's okay, he took it, he seemed very happy with it this time. And, later in the week he came back to tell me what a great job I did that time. :)

Azzurri
03-04-2008, 11:02 AM
NRG2 for about a set.

. . . Bud

Exactly...my main issue is not that a multi is not playable or good, but the time they perform is way, way too short. So to me, multi's suck because of this. I really believed all the hype/crap about multi's that are near gut..yea, for an hour or less. So to me (and most other obviously) paying over $15 for a multi is not a valid option after playing gut.

Josherer
03-04-2008, 11:06 AM
Oh, sorry bout beating a dead horse. :D It's my only funny story about pros. :D

I have a great one about customers though. I had someone come back complaining about the tension, "Too tight," they say. "Stringers fault!" So, being in a customer service-happy business I'm allowed to say, okee-dokee and make it right. I put it to the side and go to lunch. The guy comes back and wants the racquet. Co-worker looks at racquet, sees it's just been strung and says here you go!

I come back and am obviously in a panic, where's the racquet? Co-worker says it's okay, he took it, he seemed very happy with it this time. And, later in the week he came back to tell me what a great job I did that time. :)

Ha Ha that's hilarious... :)


Hey guys. I picked up some K Gut and i'm going to put it on the mains with some alu rough on the the crosses.. Thanks

Azzurri
03-04-2008, 11:13 AM
Oh, sorry bout beating a dead horse. :D It's my only funny story about pros. :D

I have a great one about customers though. I had someone come back complaining about the tension, "Too tight," they say. "Stringers fault!" So, being in a customer service-happy business I'm allowed to say, okee-dokee and make it right. I put it to the side and go to lunch. The guy comes back and wants the racquet. Co-worker looks at racquet, sees it's just been strung and says here you go!

I come back and am obviously in a panic, where's the racquet? Co-worker says it's okay, he took it, he seemed very happy with it this time. And, later in the week he came back to tell me what a great job I did that time. :)

Great story! My story is sort the same, but not:

My friend likes his string at 65#. We took his 6.2 Hammer (The Skunk) to the local pro shop to have it strung. He got it back 3 days later...way too loose. The guy at the desk apologizes and says he will have it re-strung. a few days later we were playing a match and we stopped by the counter to ask if the racquet had been strung. The guy (same guy) says yes. Again, the tension was way too loose. The guy became angry and told us the racquet was strung on a 3K machine and its strung at 65#...he asked who would know more, you or the machine. My friend, always a calm person asked for my Swiss gadget. He tells the guy in a stern, but calm manner the string is too loose and he was not paying for the string job. He cut out the string in front of the guy (it was my buddies string anyway). We left.

almost 2 weeks later, he gets a call from the "stringer at the club. The guy was extremely upset that he may have "lost" my friends racquet. He looked everywhere for it and was concerned it had been stolen...he finally tracked down my friend (through an aquantance) and informed him he would be willing to find another in at least better the condition no matter the cost. My friend asked him if he ever got a chance to string it...the guy told him the club called about the racquet to get it strung at proper tension. He was gone on vacation for that week (the club failed to mention this). When he cam back, he could not find the racquet. The guy that my friend disagreed with was a P/T employee and was off the next few eeks to have foot surgery. So that is how the stringer thought the racquet was "lost". Need less to say, my friend confirmed with him it was never re-strung and when the stringer found out what happened, he said he would take care of the situation. Within days, my friend received an apology letter from the club, signed by the employee with a gift of 5 free string jobs, 1 free lesson and 1 free hour court time. I guess it ended up being worth the trouble...:)

Pro_Tour_630
03-04-2008, 11:47 AM
Id imagine nadal would have been able to tell within a few shots in the warm up...I dont think it would take a while for him to realise he had the wrong string.

Nick
Nick I wish you saw the match, especially the first set, It could have been the tension, it could have dropped? who knows but something was not right with his setup and when nadal switched it was like night and day, he was not missing and shots were kicking with amazing zip, poor simon he did not know what hit him it was over very quick after that

I said the same thing a month ago

anyone see the nadal and simon first set match?

If gear in this case correct string tension is not important then I don't know what is.

simon was up 5/2 first set and had four set points,

Rafa goes over between points and changes racquets, looks to his coach and points to his strings shacks his head and says something.

after he changed frames, his shots were very different, they had more spin and were going deep, he was not missing, shots wre wicked and on fire. He came back and crushed simon 5/7 and the next two sets were history,


Not sure about the outcome of the match but i guarantee had Rafa did not change frames he would have lost without a doubt the first set.

Lloyd Barcenilla
03-04-2008, 11:50 AM
What would i gain/lose from switching to a syn gut or multi - from a poly

Pro_Tour_630
03-04-2008, 11:51 AM
NRG2 for about a set.

. . . Bud
I had the the same issue with Klip Legend 18g, it was two sets

Pro_Tour_630
03-04-2008, 12:08 PM
My issue is guage, to cut cost and still be able to play under 1.20mm I play BOW 18g ($15) mains with gosen 18g cross($1.5) total $16.50 . Back when BOW 18g was $20, my total set cost me $11.50. it was comparable to NRG2 18g, not now, I prefer going nrg18g ( I can get them for $11 or even biphase 18g for a $ or so more). plus they were a bit more durable than the BOW 18g. I have not tried NRG18g mains with gosen18g cross that would be interesting to cut cost by another $6 and see if that set up is comparable to BOW18/gosen18g but I doubt it is better or more economical and durable than my funky Ashaway Kevlar 18g/gosen18g. I did try asahway Kevlar 18g mains with Klip legend 17g cross, it was a dog and a dud, hated it. Next on my list is Bow 18g cross with ashaway Kevlar 18g mains, dunno might play too crisp and jumpy, we shall see.

If I really want to treat myself, I dip into my private stash of Pacific Prime 18g that is dwindling :cry:

bsandy
03-04-2008, 01:44 PM
I haven't figured out the wisdom of using an 18g in the crosses. It loses tension faster and saws through the mains.

You tried ashaway Kevlar 18g mains with Klip legend 17g crosses. You should try the Klip legend 17g crosses on one of your multis or 18g NG. (Take 2lbs out for the guage dif, and because the crosses are shorter).

. . . Bud

Pro_Tour_630
03-04-2008, 01:55 PM
I haven't figured out the wisdom of using an 18g in the crosses. It loses tension faster and saws through the mains.

You tried ashaway Kevlar 18g mains with Klip legend 17g crosses. You should try the Klip legend 17g crosses on one of your multis or 18g NG. (Take 2lbs out for the guage dif, and because the crosses are shorter).

. . . Bud

you get more spin/bit, I know you are going to tell me that mains is what determines spin but it is cross as well, mains and cross form a []square the bigger more open the square the more spin, I don't have issue with cross sawing through mains since I have Kevlar mains

you missed that:)

I did try asahway Kevlar 18g mains with Klip legend 17g cross, it was a dog and a dud, hated it.

Plus I string crosses much tighter than main, the crosses is what determines stringbed tension IMO. I string 40lbs mains with 65lbs cross. as I string the cross tighter my mains tighten up, I elongate the head of my frames

jaykay
03-04-2008, 04:58 PM
Back to the ORIGINAL post...

Why would anyone want a multi that plays like gut? I assume the price? Well I was one of those people. I tried at least 8-10 multi's and never liked them much. The main problem was they would go dead in ajust a few hours, sometimes within a set!! So made the switch to gut and thought why not hybrid (since many posters claim most of the racquets feel is from the mains), so now my string costs $13..cheaper than most good multi's and play a lot better to boot (hold tension very well).


slappano: Here is a reason that is not price ---
I REALLY like gut in my mains (with poly in my crosses) but I intend to start stringing myself and being a noob, am not very confident of handling nat.gut. Thus, I'd like to know what a viable gut alternative might be (understanding that there might be some compromises...). I know for sure that once I am confident about stringing (and have perhaps 50 accurate stringing jobs under my belt), I'll be back to nat.gut.

Valjean
03-04-2008, 05:45 PM
jaykay, there are plenty of unplayable guts; take, for instance, Titan. And I'm still waiting for the poly user who says is there a reason for a Klip's Armour Pro today? Get specific. It's still about what you want in a string, gut or no.

Casco
03-04-2008, 07:27 PM
Laser Fiber pro Stock

vndesu
03-04-2008, 11:11 PM
try titan narutal gut.
you save alot of money instead of buying babolat or wilson gut.

Azzurri
03-05-2008, 03:55 AM
slappano: Here is a reason that is not price ---
I REALLY like gut in my mains (with poly in my crosses) but I intend to start stringing myself and being a noob, am not very confident of handling nat.gut. Thus, I'd like to know what a viable gut alternative might be (understanding that there might be some compromises...). I know for sure that once I am confident about stringing (and have perhaps 50 accurate stringing jobs under my belt), I'll be back to nat.gut.

I hear you. I strung maybe 20 times (I could be off) before I strung my racquets with the Klip...not as bad as I thought. I just took my time. No problems. In fact, I will be stringing my NEW ASIAN K90's Saturday...I got them yesterday. What stringer do u use?

slice bh compliment
03-05-2008, 06:10 AM
Laser Fiber pro Stock
Yeah, LaserFibre SuperNatural Gut Pro Stock. It really IS like gut. It's made of some synthetic surgical material that's used to replace stomach lining in humans.

slice bh compliment
03-05-2008, 07:02 AM
Whoa, guys, chill. Relax. This is not gut-like at all.

It's high time you kids take a deep breath, and rediscover the spirit of natural gut. Maybe they can start making natural gut out of hemp for certain people?

jaykay
03-05-2008, 02:24 PM
jaykay, there are plenty of unplayable guts; take, for instance, Titan. And I'm still waiting for the poly user who says is there a reason for a Klip's Armour Pro today? Get specific. It's still about what you want in a string, gut or no.

I'm not talking about unplayable guts. Only VS, BDE or Legend. I'm not a poly user, so can't concoct a response for you (with regard to furnishing a reason for KLIP's Armour Pro)... somebody else will have to do that. What I want in a string is feel, playability, comfort, spin and tension retention and if possible, ease of stringing thrown into the mix. Specific enough for you? Like I mentioned earlier, I like gut and I use gut. I'm looking for alternatives to gut for stringing on my own, till I get comfortable to try my hand at stringing gut by myself.

Azzurri
03-05-2008, 04:05 PM
Whoa, guys, chill. Relax. This is not gut-like at all.

It's high time you kids take a deep breath, and rediscover the spirit of natural gut. Maybe they can start making natural gut out of hemp for certain people?

LOL...can you imagine that, you smoke it after you play it.

Valjean
03-05-2008, 04:06 PM
I'm not talking about unplayable guts. Only VS, BDE or Legend. I'm not a poly user, so can't concoct a response for you (with regard to furnishing a reason for KLIP's Armour Pro)... somebody else will have to do that. What I want in a string is feel, playability, comfort, spin and tension retention and if possible, ease of stringing thrown into the mix. Specific enough for you? Like I mentioned earlier, I like gut and I use gut. I'm looking for alternatives to gut for stringing on my own, till I get comfortable to try my hand at stringing gut by myself.
You're not only not responding to my posting and the spirit in which it is offered, you're not even close. How is that?

bsandy
03-05-2008, 04:40 PM
Titan makes a great cross string. I would never use it in the mains.

I've had 1 bad set out of 10.

2 out of 10 were perfect. The other 7 had spot that frayed (slightly), when I strung them.

. . . Bud

sneekynyc
03-05-2008, 04:46 PM
I just strung 2 rackets with Babolat Xcel Premium, and I swore I thought I was stringing Gut string... Now I haven't played with it cause this is for a customer, but in the hands it felt like gut.

jaykay
03-05-2008, 04:47 PM
You're not only not responding to my posting and the spirit in which it is offered, you're not even close. How is that?

Ok. I think there might be some misinterpretation on either your part or mine, or both. Was your post meant for me or someone else? I don't get it... Can you explain?

Valjean
03-05-2008, 06:14 PM
Ok. I think there might be some misinterpretation on either your part or mine, or both. Was your post meant for me or someone else? I don't get it... Can you explain?
You're way ahead of me; this was never about you but about a perspective you have. And I simply said that perhaps you cannot speak of "gut" until you have spelled out (for yourself; this was in no sense a demand) which one(s), since there is quite a range, and some might be quite inferior and others (Armour Pro, for example) simply out of place. If you had read this entry as just part of the thread, you might have been closer to my intent.

jaykay
03-05-2008, 07:04 PM
You're way ahead of me; this was never about you but about a perspective you have. And I simply said that perhaps you cannot speak of "gut" until you have spelled out (for yourself; this was in no sense a demand) which one(s), since there is quite a range, and some might be quite inferior and others (Armour Pro, for example) simply out of place. If you had read this entry as just part of the thread, you might have been closer to my intent.

Ok. I get it now. I did spell it out a few posts ago.

Behtareen
03-05-2008, 07:22 PM
ive been using gamma professional and its surprisingly close.

Lambsscroll
03-06-2008, 04:44 AM
The question should be is there a multi that's close to gut that costs less than 15 bucks? No reason to buy a multi that plays close to gut that's around 19 dollars.

Azzurri
03-06-2008, 06:16 AM
The question should be is there a multi that's close to gut that costs less than 15 bucks? No reason to buy a multi that plays close to gut that's around 19 dollars.

Sounds logical, sounds simple, but I have experienced the opposite. if there is a decent/good multi for $10, by all means buy it, but if this multi is lose to the price of a natural gut, then why buy it?

Valjean
03-06-2008, 07:26 AM
The question should be is there a multi that's close to gut that costs less than 15 bucks? No reason to buy a multi that plays close to gut that's around 19 dollars.
I think Babolat's Xcel Power is the lowest you should go and have the string live up to a specific expectation, corresponding to BDE Performance. It's around $17 now.

sruckauf
03-06-2008, 07:29 AM
The question should be is there a multi that's close to gut that costs less than 15 bucks? No reason to buy a multi that plays close to gut that's around 19 dollars.

Bingo.

10 chars..

slice bh compliment
03-06-2008, 07:45 AM
I just strung 2 rackets with Babolat Xcel Premium, and I swore I thought I was stringing Gut string... Now I haven't played with it cause this is for a customer, but in the hands it felt like gut.

This is true. But less so when you actually play with it. Xcel is a great multi, but it is far from gut. I used to play with it, and I loved the feel of it, but it loses tension and breaks too soon for me.

I think people who use multis and think soft is gutlike have been misled. Gut is mysteriously soft and firm at the same time. It holds tension well, but it is not really durable. It helps you spin the heck out of the ball, so control is amazing with it, yet, it's really powerful, so some people find they lack control with gut.

Natural gut has got to be the most misunderstood string on the market. maybe because some stringers avoid it. Could be b/c it is expensive. Maybe because people think it is only for the elite players or people with a lot of disposable income.

I see it as a purist's string. I see it as the ideal mate for a polyester if you're into that (I am). I see it as something great for club players with elbow problems. It is actually not that expensive in the long run if you are not a string breaker.

Back on topic, Prince makes something called Perfection that looks and feels good to me.

Lambscroll made the point about an ersatz gutlike multi for under $15, and it is a good point, if it's a good multi you are after. It's also a great point because if you actually want a cheaper gut that does not have quality problems, that is out there too: Pacific Tough Gut, Babolat VS Tonic, Bow, Klip.....all decent and not as much coin as VS Team.

I hear good things about BDE, but when I tried it 10 years ago, I did not fall in love with it. WHich doesn't mean much today.

sneekynyc
03-06-2008, 07:54 AM
Yea, I know that the babolat Xcel won't come close to playing like gut, but just stringing wise, it is close... I've been using Bow Brand gut for years and I string alot of gut for other players (mainly advanced), but I do recommend it to club level players to at least try it once, and when they do, they usually never go back.

Valjean
03-06-2008, 09:30 AM
This is true. But less so when you actually play with it. Xcel is a great multi, but it is far from gut. I used to play with it, and I loved the feel of it, but it loses tension and breaks too soon for me.

I think people who use multis and think soft is gutlike have been misled. Gut is mysteriously soft and firm at the same time. It holds tension well, but it is not really durable. It helps you spin the heck out of the ball, so control is amazing with it, yet, it's really powerful, so some people find they lack control with gut.

Natural gut has got to be the most misunderstood string on the market. maybe because some stringers avoid it. Could be b/c it is expensive. Maybe because people think it is only for the elite players or people with a lot of disposable income.

I see it as a purist's string. I see it as the ideal mate for a polyester if you're into that (I am). I see it as something great for club players with elbow problems. It is actually not that expensive in the long run if you are not a string breaker.

Back on topic, Prince makes something called Perfection that looks and feels good to me.

Lambscroll made the point about an ersatz gutlike multi for under $15, and it is a good point, if it's a good multi you are after. It's also a great point because if you actually want a cheaper gut that does not have quality problems, that is out there too: Pacific Tough Gut, Babolat VS Tonic, Bow, Klip.....all decent and not as much coin as VS Team.

I hear good things about BDE, but when I tried it 10 years ago, I did not fall in love with it. WHich doesn't mean much today.
The Xcel Premium you played with has been replaced this year by Xcel 2008, which has addressed the problems of its older, now dated, predecessor very well. And it now competes very handily with Wilson's NXT Max, the updated, reinforced version of original NXT. It is Xcel Power, also new this season, where the real surprise is in Babolat's line, though. Indeed, 2008 could actually turn out to be the watershed year for multis. And by the way, natural gut is in fact very well understood in here--and is now needed more than ever to cut the feel and enhance the power of polyester. Just look at the forum's thread list and feel confirmed in it.

Pro_Tour_630
03-06-2008, 09:33 AM
The question should be is there a multi that's close to gut that costs less than 15 bucks? No reason to buy a multi that plays close to gut that's around 19 dollars.

I think what Valjean and I are saying is that there is a wide range of natural gut. From under $8 per pack to $35+. The question should be more precise. I beg you. Some say it is the NG that we usually talk about.:confused: Please forgive me and I am sorry, I do not know what that means.:confused: I have been here for more than 7 years and since then we were talking about all kinds of NG since 1999, we can not cherry pick and compare only the best price/performance ratio category, even though we like to. The generalization shifts and continues to the NG's offered by TW, and when we raise TItan which is offered by TW, the comparison shifts again. Valjean raise the issue of amour pro which is $32 and out of place. I know many would buy VS and pacific prime for a few buck more, who wouldn't?

I raised the issue of gauge. To me and maybe only to me? it is all about consistency of gauge. And I am sorry to say the least that with the "cheaper" under $25 NG you get what you pay for. Not only are they inconsistent in gauge they snap more often than not, they snap prematurely and sometimes by themselves while in your car. In my 18g world and IMO there is no better playing string than NRG18g at the price of $10 ( if it were over $20 then maybe no) sure there is legend 18g but it cost $15 more and does not play like a true 18g ( I prefer string twice with fresh NRG18g for the price of one Legend 18g that went dead quick, again that is just me) then there is Bow 18g which at one point was $20, only $10 more was OK, but did not last as long as NRG18g and was not as soft, BOW 18g is a very crisp and very powerful NG, tension maintenance is not an issue since these 18g do not last long anyway and I restring them very often so you can see why price is also a factor. BOW 18g is $30. I do not play 17g even for more durability even if you give them to me free. That is just me. I am sorry.

Sure there are some premium Multis that are better than some NG but then there is an equilibrium and then sometimes certain NG beats Premium Multis (sure Pacific prime 18g with Tyrex coating is light years better than any 18g Premium Multi known to man) but reality hits that not only it is $35, I will take out a second mortgage on the house I do not care if it were readily and easily available. It is not and it is impossible to find. I called pacific they do not want to talk to me maybe if I were Sampras they will, who plays with a special 1.20mm VS that is only available to him from Babolat. 1.20mm in an open PS 85 is like 1.15mm in a dense MP like the PT630.

There has been tests done BY USRSA about tension loss/stiffness and believe me the gap is closing between the premium Multis and these so called premium NG.

I am not disagreeing with anyone nor singling anyone nor baiting anyone, you all have good and valid reason and I respect that. If you want to tear my post apart and claim I am wrong please email me. I will be glade to debate with you on this issue. These are my experiences ONLY.

Thank you

PED
03-06-2008, 09:58 AM
^^^Nice post. Two questions, 1. Do you use the NRG 18 as a full job and 2. if you were using a stick with a more open string pattern, say 16 X 19, would you still use 18G or would you go to a 17?

thx

sruckauf
03-06-2008, 10:06 AM
^^^Nice post. Two questions, 1. Do you use the NRG 18 as a full job and 2. if you were using a stick with a more open string pattern, say 16 X 19, would you still use 18G or would you go to a 17?

thx

I wonder the same thing. On my POG OS, I have had little love for 18 gauge strings.. not because of the durability, but playability and control.

Azzurri
03-06-2008, 10:18 AM
I think what Valjean and I are saying is that there is a wide range of natural gut. From under $8 per pack to $35+. The question should be more precise. I beg you. Some say it is the NG that we usually talk about.:confused: Please forgive me and I am sorry, I do not know what that means.:confused: I have been here for more than 7 years and since then we were talking about all kinds of NG since 1999, we can not cherry pick and compare only the best price/performance ratio category, even though we like to. The generalization shifts and continues to the NG's offered by TW, and when we raise TItan which is offered by TW, the comparison shifts again. Valjean raise the issue of amour pro which is $32 and out of place. I know many would buy VS and pacific prime for a few buck more, who wouldn't?

I raised the issue of gauge. To me and maybe only to me? it is all about consistency of gauge. And I am sorry to say the least that with the "cheaper" under $25 NG you get what you pay for. Not only are they inconsistent in gauge they snap more often than not, they snap prematurely and sometimes by themselves while in your car. In my 18g world and IMO there is no better playing string than NRG18g at the price of $10 ( if it were over $20 then maybe no) sure there is legend 18g but it cost $15 more and does not play like a true 18g ( I prefer string twice with fresh NRG18g for the price of one Legend 18g that went dead quick, again that is just me) then there is Bow 18g which at one point was $20, only $10 more was OK, but did not last as long as NRG18g and was not as soft, BOW 18g is a very crisp and very powerful NG, tension maintenance is not an issue since these 18g do not last long anyway and I restring them very often so you can see why price is also a factor. BOW 18g is $30. I do not play 17g even for more durability even if you give them to me free. That is just me. I am sorry.

Sure there are some premium Multis that are better than some NG but then there is an equilibrium and then sometimes certain NG beats Premium Multis (sure Pacific prime 18g with Tyrex coating is light years better than any 18g Premium Multi known to man) but reality hits that not only it is $35, I will take out a second mortgage on the house I do not care if it were readily and easily available. It is not and it is impossible to find. I called pacific they do not want to talk to me maybe if I were Sampras they will, who plays with a special 1.20mm VS that is only available to him from Babolat. 1.20mm in an open PS 85 is like 1.15mm in a dense MP like the PT630.

There has been tests done BY USRSA about tension loss/stiffness and believe me the gap is closing between the premium Multis and these so called premium NG.

I am not disagreeing with anyone nor singling anyone nor baiting anyone, you all have good and valid reason and I respect that. If you want to tear my post apart and claim I am wrong please email me. I will be glade to debate with you on this issue. These are my experiences ONLY.

Thank you

Maybe if your posts were as sincere as this you would not have so many problems. :)

But I have a question. What about tension maintenance? You have argued hard for gauge characteristics, but 90% of us would not really be able to tell when the gauge is off a bit on a particular part of a string, so let that go for now. The main issue I have w/any multi is the tension aspect. I have stated countless times that some multi's are nice, good, quality strings, but my main beef has been the tension (which is why I end up saying they suck). You see, almost everyone's arguement included the issue with the multi string going dead so quickly. When you talk about the cost, it is a bit irrelevant to compare cost with multi vs gut. Gut last so much longer (to almost everyone else). While you and VJ make valid points, you sometimes ignore our valid points. Your last post seems like you seem to be a bit more open minded (or getting the point). So maybe there are some multi's that play compareable to gut, but for how long?

Its hard to change or influence the minds of so many when you are in the minority, it just causes all sorts of problems. People just like gut better than a multi and perhaps it has to do with the tension issues with multi.

I agree that not all gut is the same, yes an $8 is probably not worth buying. No one really even argued this point with you. Yes, when people say gut they mean the gut TW offers. Titan, I don't know what to say about Titan. Some people hate it, some don't. Is it worth a try? Maybe.

Lat thing, those tests don't mean much to normal, everyday, no-pro tennis players. I actually looked into strings based on those tests and I did not find it to be valid (for me). The tension maintanence and playbaility characteristics of Klip, BDE, Babolat, Pacific and BB are heads above the multi;s mentioned (in the real world).

I don't buy into the USRSA tests. I tried strings based on their tests and found nothing to validate them..nothing.

slice bh compliment
03-06-2008, 10:26 AM
...I don't buy into the USRSA tests. I tried strings based on their tests and found nothing to validate them..nothing.

I think their playTESTS are great. It's qualified people doing them.
If you are referring to their surveys, well, absolutely, you're correct. It's just a survey of what is in the pro shop and what is moving. More of a function of marketing than anything else.

slice bh compliment
03-06-2008, 10:29 AM
The Xcel Premium you played with has been replaced this year by Xcel 2008, which has addressed the problems of its older, now dated, predecessor very well. And it now competes very handily with Wilson's NXT Max, the updated, reinforced version of original NXT. It is Xcel Power, also new this season, where the real surprise is in Babolat's line, though. Indeed, 2008 could actually turn out to be the watershed year for multis. And by the way, natural gut is in fact very well understood in here--and is now needed more than ever to cut the feel and enhance the power of polyester. Just look at the forum's thread list and feel confirmed in it.

Excellent. Glad they've improved an already wonderful string.

Sure by some. By you. By some others. But not by some people right here in this thread who might not have played with gut extensively.

Absolutely. An important point.

Azzurri
03-06-2008, 10:38 AM
I think their playTESTS are great. It's qualified people doing them.
If you are referring to their surveys, well, absolutely, you're correct. It's just a survey of what is in the pro shop and what is moving. More of a function of marketing than anything else.

I should clarify..their tests don't really mean much to the normal everyday player. Like their stifnness ratings..I tried the lower end (softer) strings and I felt very little to any difference to what I was using (not poly). The tension maintanence issue is what really got me. I see they have ratings, but not one of them is relevant to me (multi and gut). One multi is supposed to be near gut for tension/playability to Klip...not even close. The multi string died, moved all over within 2 hours (max). I used to use their chart to find certain strings and it became a waste (to me and I feel I am a normal player like most).

Pro_Tour_630
03-06-2008, 11:08 AM
Maybe if your posts were as sincere as this you would not have so many problems. :)

But I have a question. What about tension maintenance? You have argued hard for gauge characteristics, but 90% of us would not really be able to tell when the gauge is off a bit on a particular part of a string, so let that go for now. The main issue I have w/any multi is the tension aspect. I have stated countless times that some multi's are nice, good, quality strings, but my main beef has been the tension (which is why I end up saying they suck). You see, almost everyone's arguement included the issue with the multi string going dead so quickly. When you talk about the cost, it is a bit irrelevant to compare cost with multi vs gut. Gut last so much longer (to almost everyone else). While you and VJ make valid points, you sometimes ignore our valid points. Your last post seems like you seem to be a bit more open minded (or getting the point). So maybe there are some multi's that play compareable to gut, but for how long?

Its hard to change or influence the minds of so many when you are in the minority, it just causes all sorts of problems. People just like gut better than a multi and perhaps it has to do with the tension issues with multi.

I agree that not all gut is the same, yes an $8 is probably not worth buying. No one really even argued this point with you. Yes, when people say gut they mean the gut TW offers. Titan, I don't know what to say about Titan. Some people hate it, some don't. Is it worth a try? Maybe.

Lat thing, those tests don't mean much to normal, everyday, no-pro tennis players. I actually looked into strings based on those tests and I did not find it to be valid (for me). The tension maintanence and playbaility characteristics of Klip, BDE, Babolat, Pacific and BB are heads above the multi;s mentioned (in the real world).

I don't buy into the USRSA tests. I tried strings based on their tests and found nothing to validate them..nothing.
All your points are well taken and are correct on 99% of your points. I am subtracting one %1 not because of you, the argument does not take into consideration people who play with very very thin strings which are in the minority. Especially people who can tell/feel the difference in gauge. Now for your main question and your main issue. Most of you play 16g and 17g. I wish I did and I envy you. If I did I would be in your camp and will be disagreeing with some nob like myself. These strings last a longer time and when you pay $25-$35 for NG you would expect it to last longer and play consistently well and yes you are correct these NG are better. But when it comes to the very thin 18g, longevity durability does not matter. We string and restring so often, a fresh setup is better more often. They are thin and they are going to break anyway. I am talking a 1/2 dozen hours of play here. Just to give you an idea and I know it is a different sport but for the lack of a better example, There are certain table tennis players that re-glue their rubber sheets ($10 X2 sides sometimes more) every time they come to the table and play just to get the maximum feel, spin and action on their shots.

I think we have found common grounds and will build on this.

Now we have the issue of NG in mains or crosses and which setups are better more economical etc...

Pro_Tour_630
03-06-2008, 11:21 AM
^^^Nice post. Two questions, 1. Do you use the NRG 18 as a full job and 2. if you were using a stick with a more open string pattern, say 16 X 19, would you still use 18G or would you go to a 17?

thx
I wonder the same thing. On my POG OS, I have had little love for 18 gauge strings.. not because of the durability, but playability and control.

I was using NRG18g as a full job, and sometime I would use Bow 18g in cross, I did not use Bow 18g with nrg18g, when it comes to mains and cross sky is the limits,

You can use thin 18g in open pattern depends what size head, it is just I can break them in 15 minutes, Heck I can even break a 17g in a POG mid in 15 minutes so. I remember I loved NRG18g in PS6.0 95 which is an open MP. I am in the process of putting nrg18g and legend 18g in my prestige pro, part of the reason I got the pro is because of the open pattern (closest to an open PT630) so I can use thicker strings but sadly I have tried three different 17g strings to no avail so I am going thinner,

Pro_Tour_630
03-06-2008, 11:30 AM
I should clarify..their tests don't really mean much to the normal everyday player. Like their stifnness ratings..I tried the lower end (softer) strings and I felt very little to any difference to what I was using (not poly). The tension maintanence issue is what really got me. I see they have ratings, but not one of them is relevant to me (multi and gut). One multi is supposed to be near gut for tension/playability to Klip...not even close. The multi string died, moved all over within 2 hours (max). I used to use their chart to find certain strings and it became a waste (to me and I feel I am a normal player like most).

correct, they don't mean much to the everyday player.

They are controlled tests where a string is stretched for a certain period in time and whacked a certain amounts of time with an object, I think hammer or a steel ball.

Azzurri
03-06-2008, 11:52 AM
All your points are well taken and are correct on 99% of your points. I am subtracting one %1 not because of you, the argument does not take into consideration people who play with very very thin strings which are in the minority. Especially people who can tell/feel the difference in gauge. Now for your main question and your main issue. Most of you play 16g and 17g. I wish I did and I envy you. If I did I would be in your camp and will be disagreeing with some nob like myself. These strings last a longer time and when you pay $25-$35 for NG you would expect it to last longer and play consistently well and yes you are correct these NG are better. But when it comes to the very thin 18g, longevity durability does not matter. We string and restring so often, a fresh setup is better more often. They are thin and they are going to break anyway. I am talking a 1/2 dozen hours of play here. Just to give you an idea and I know it is a different sport but for the lack of a better example, There are certain table tennis players that re-glue their rubber sheets ($10 X2 sides sometimes more) every time they come to the table and play just to get the maximum spin and action on their shots.

I think we have found common grounds and will build on this.

Now we have the issue of NG in mains or crosses and which setups are better more economical etc...

I see what you are saying. I completely understand your point. I have never played an 18g, so of course I would have to rely on your assessments and they sound logical to me. So now I nderstand what you were getting at, I guess the discussion should have been more about 18g gut rather than just good/quality gut. So I understand what you mean. Is there any 18g gut you would recommend and what are the benefits (at least in your experience).

Yea, I have a small issue myself that gets in the way of equipment. I have the ability to feel the slightest difference is weght and SW. I got a supposed matched set of racquets recently and I knew they were not weighted properly. One was off by 5 grams. Most people would not even notice, but my ridiculous sense of weight and balance hurts me especially with today QC issues. I never, ever had these issues in the 80's and 90's. I never even knew these problems existed until I began to player the newer, modern racquets.

Azzurri
03-06-2008, 11:54 AM
All your points are well taken and are correct on 99% of your points. I am subtracting one %1 not because of you, the argument does not take into consideration people who play with very very thin strings which are in the minority. Especially people who can tell/feel the difference in gauge. Now for your main question and your main issue. Most of you play 16g and 17g. I wish I did and I envy you. If I did I would be in your camp and will be disagreeing with some nob like myself. These strings last a longer time and when you pay $25-$35 for NG you would expect it to last longer and play consistently well and yes you are correct these NG are better. But when it comes to the very thin 18g, longevity durability does not matter. We string and restring so often, a fresh setup is better more often. They are thin and they are going to break anyway. I am talking a 1/2 dozen hours of play here. Just to give you an idea and I know it is a different sport but for the lack of a better example, There are certain table tennis players that re-glue their rubber sheets ($10 X2 sides sometimes more) every time they come to the table and play just to get the maximum feel, spin and action on their shots.

I think we have found common grounds and will build on this.

Now we have the issue of NG in mains or crosses and which setups are better more economical etc...

NOOOO!! Don't get me even thinking of that.:):)

I have decided on the Gosen cross, so my only issue is to make sure I have the right nat gut for me. So BDE will be the next gut and maybe Pacific or Tonic...not sure.

Azzurri
03-06-2008, 11:57 AM
correct, they don't mean much to the everyday player.

They are controlled tests where a string is stretched for a certain period in time and whacked a certain amounts of time with an object, I think hammer or a steel ball.

Ha! Really?! I did not even know that. Its just that whatever #'s they come up with really had no effect on me. I think lost of people will be able to have a feel for a string and know if they like it, while some have little to no feel and play whatever is cheap.

So the strings are rated as if the same (one type) player is using them?

Pro_Tour_630
03-06-2008, 12:24 PM
Is there any 18g gut you would recommend and what are the benefits (at least in your experience).
pacific prime 18g softest most comfortable(impossible to find) followed by Bow 18g very crisp( went up in price), Klip 18g legend (though not really a true 18g) is most logical and economical and yes it is most durable for obvious reasons. Depending how you look at it is nice in the right frame.

Yea, I have a small issue myself that gets in the way of equipment. I have the ability to feel the slightest difference is weght and SW. I got a supposed matched set of racquets recently and I knew they were not weighted properly. One was off by 5 grams. Most people would not even notice, but my ridiculous sense of weight and balance hurts me especially with today QC issues. I never, ever had these issues in the 80's and 90's. I never even knew these problems existed until I began to player the newer, modern racquets.
strung or unstrung frames? were they strung exactly the same? I mean exactly!!!! the same tension on the same stringing machine by the same person, etc...... if they were different string type and gauge then it is obvious who the culprit is?

I am glade you raised this issue, I was going to add it but since you mentioned it here goes. For the most part and in general thinner strings weigh less, obviously. So 18g's are going to weigh less and depending how you string them compared to other thicker stringers and what type of string, it will affect weight and SW drastically (to me and I think to you as well) we are talking in upwards of 7 to 10 grams ( upwards of 5 points SW) spread throughout the hoop, so you see whether you like more HL or more HH, there is an another advantage to 18g depending how you look at it if you like a more HL frames:)

NOOOO!! Don't get me even thinking of that.:):)

I have decided on the Gosen cross, so my only issue is to make sure I have the right nat gut for me. So BDE will be the next gut and maybe Pacific or Tonic...not sure.
all those are fine, I would go BDE 17g for mains with Gosen 17g, heck now I need to try that in my Prestige Pro before I give up on it, see what you are doing creating more work for me.

We shall leave this for next time. :) There is no correct answer, they are all different and serve different purposes and everyone of them is unique in their own ways. But if you ever want to try a setup that will peel the yellow fuzz of the ball especially in a dense MP/mid Try ashaway Kevlar 18g mains at low tension with a thin 18g cross like gosen 18g or even nrg18g at a high tension. Plus it is the most durable 18g setup of all 18g setups that I have tried, maybe even more durable than full 17g setups

Lambsscroll
03-06-2008, 03:23 PM
I think what Valjean and I are saying is that there is a wide range of natural gut. From under $8 per pack to $35+. The question should be more precise. I beg you. Some say it is the NG that we usually talk about.:confused: Please forgive me and I am sorry, I do not know what that means.:confused: I have been here for more than 7 years and since then we were talking about all kinds of NG since 1999, we can not cherry pick and compare only the best price/performance ratio category, even though we like to. The generalization shifts and continues to the NG's offered by TW, and when we raise TItan which is offered by TW, the comparison shifts again. Valjean raise the issue of amour pro which is $32 and out of place. I know many would buy VS and pacific prime for a few buck more, who wouldn't?

I raised the issue of gauge. To me and maybe only to me? it is all about consistency of gauge. And I am sorry to say the least that with the "cheaper" under $25 NG you get what you pay for. Not only are they inconsistent in gauge they snap more often than not, they snap prematurely and sometimes by themselves while in your car. In my 18g world and IMO there is no better playing string than NRG18g at the price of $10 ( if it were over $20 then maybe no) sure there is legend 18g but it cost $15 more and does not play like a true 18g ( I prefer string twice with fresh NRG18g for the price of one Legend 18g that went dead quick, again that is just me) then there is Bow 18g which at one point was $20, only $10 more was OK, but did not last as long as NRG18g and was not as soft, BOW 18g is a very crisp and very powerful NG, tension maintenance is not an issue since these 18g do not last long anyway and I restring them very often so you can see why price is also a factor. BOW 18g is $30. I do not play 17g even for more durability even if you give them to me free. That is just me. I am sorry.

Sure there are some premium Multis that are better than some NG but then there is an equilibrium and then sometimes certain NG beats Premium Multis (sure Pacific prime 18g with Tyrex coating is light years better than any 18g Premium Multi known to man) but reality hits that not only it is $35, I will take out a second mortgage on the house I do not care if it were readily and easily available. It is not and it is impossible to find. I called pacific they do not want to talk to me maybe if I were Sampras they will, who plays with a special 1.20mm VS that is only available to him from Babolat. 1.20mm in an open PS 85 is like 1.15mm in a dense MP like the PT630.

There has been tests done BY USRSA about tension loss/stiffness and believe me the gap is closing between the premium Multis and these so called premium NG.

I am not disagreeing with anyone nor singling anyone nor baiting anyone, you all have good and valid reason and I respect that. If you want to tear my post apart and claim I am wrong please email me. I will be glade to debate with you on this issue. These are my experiences ONLY.

Thank you

wow! Here is the original question. "what strings play closest to gut form everyone's experiences" Are you saying 18g plays closest to gut?

Pro_Tour_630
03-06-2008, 03:56 PM
wow! Here is the original question. "what strings play closest to gut form everyone's experiences" Are you saying 18g plays closest to gut?
Everyone?!?!?!

This question is broad, seriously. Which is the best hamburger or which is the best pizza in everyones experience:confused:

There is less than a hand full of premium Multis that hmmm somewhat play close to N gut( the $25 and above) I would say Kgut and supernatural pro stock to name a few or even Biphase, But as many here are saying they prefer the "natural" stuff better, holds tension better etc.... I tend to agree with them in general terms but if you want to get to specifics like in my case which is unique and in the minority just reread my post again, it is self explanatory, I think

Oh!!!!! I just remembered, laserfibre Rep had an unusual and unique supernatural pro stock 1.20mm that came out differently ( thinner) from the factory. He could not package them and sell them because they were too thin. He contacted me and I took them off of him. They were nice and held tension pretty well. They were crisp and very close to BOW 18g. Can we get them again?I do not think so. They were supposedly the closest to NG without killing the COW. Some liked LF XRC phenom which was softer, I did not care for it, TW once had them in 18g but they broke prematurely while stringing, so they dropped the line.

Azzurri
03-06-2008, 04:28 PM
pacific prime 18g softest most comfortable(impossible to find) followed by Bow 18g very crisp( went up in price), Klip 18g legend (though not really a true 18g) is most logical and economical and yes it is most durable for obvious reasons. Depending how you look at it is nice in the right frame.

strung or unstrung frames? were they strung exactly the same? I mean exactly!!!! the same tension on the same stringing machine by the same person, etc...... if they were different string type and gauge then it is obvious who the culprit is?

I am glade you raised this issue, I was going to add it but since you mentioned it here goes. For the most part and in general thinner strings weigh less, obviously. So 18g's are going to weigh less and depending how you string them compared to other thicker stringers and what type of string, it will affect weight and SW drastically (to me and I think to you as well) we are talking in upwards of 7 to 10 grams ( upwards of 5 points SW) spread throughout the hoop, so you see whether you like more HL or more HH, there is an another advantage to 18g depending how you look at it if you like a more HL frames:)


all those are fine, I would go BDE 17g for mains with Gosen 17g, heck now I need to try that in my Prestige Pro before I give up on it, see what you are doing creating more work for me.

We shall leave this for next time. :) There is no correct answer, they are all different and serve different purposes and everyone of them is unique in their own ways. But if you ever want to try a setup that will peel the yellow fuzz of the ball especially in a dense MP/mid Try ashaway Kevlar 18g mains at low tension with a thin 18g cross like gosen 18g or even nrg18g at a high tension. Plus it is the most durable 18g setup of all 18g setups that I have tried, maybe even more durable than full 17g setups

A PP in 18g...hmm. Interesting.

I could feel the weight in oth strung and unstrung. In that case, they were strung with the exact same string.

Wow...never aware how the 18g could affect the balance. I would not mind going a little more even balance with my Asian K90.

I think the BDE is my next string, but not sure what would be next. I want to order 3 sets (for the free shipping) and try one at a time, so will know within a week.

I know Drakulie uses the Ashaway Kevlar. But know very little. Is it a stiff string? Poly like?

Pro_Tour_630
03-06-2008, 06:56 PM
Wow...never aware how the 18g could affect the balance. I would not mind going a little more even balance with my Asian K90.

I think the BDE is my next string, but not sure what would be next. I want to order 3 sets (for the free shipping) and try one at a time, so will know within a week.

I know Drakulie uses the Ashaway Kevlar. But know very little. Is it a stiff string? Poly like?

18g could affect the balance NOBADMOJO even said so and always spoke about the difference in SW spread across the whole string bed , he can feel it when going from a 17g Multi or a 17g Poly to NG 17g

I think BDE 1.22mm should be your next string.

Ashaway Kevlar if strung properly it not stiff, especially if strung proportionally at low tension ie 45lbs mains , when strung with a soft cross it is much softer than the softest POLY IMO

goldenyama
03-07-2008, 02:07 AM
Kirschbaum Touch Multi - crisp, powerful and comfortable. Closest string to gut I have ever used and I'm still using it.

Azzurri
03-07-2008, 04:25 AM
18g could affect the balance NOBADMOJO even said so and always spoke about the difference in SW spread across the whole string bed , he can feel it when going from a 17g Multi or a 17g Poly to NG 17g

I think BDE 1.22mm should be your next string.

Ashaway Kevlar if strung properly it not stiff, especially if strung proportionally at low tension ie 45lbs mains , when strung with a soft cross it is much softer than the softest POLY IMO

That is what I was looking at...thanks.

Not sure yet about Kevlar. I have had TE (slight case) for over a year now, not because of tennis, but lifting weights. I was out of tennis for 4 months or so and began lifting. Weeks before I started playing again I felt pain and it has gotten better, but its not gone yet.