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strike
03-05-2008, 05:19 AM
I am one of the (many) PD+ guys that is experiencing arm pain. Primarily in my forearm muscle, bicep, and deltoid.

I play at a strong 3.5 to low to mid 4.0 level, all court play. I like the PD, but have been debating selling it to find something a little more arm friendly. I currently have it strung with Technifibre NRG2 at 58.5 lbs, and have added 12 grams of lead tape underneath the handle and 3 grams to the head at 3 & 9 (1.5 each side). Thinking of stringing with Technifibre X-One Biphase next as I read it is even softer than the NRG2 strings.

I've been doing dumbbell exercises to strengthen my arm as well. These exercises had been working, and I had been playing with it for awhile pain free, but the last time I played I didn't get a chance to warm up properly, and the pain has now returned and I am resting for a few weeks.

So my question is have any other PD+ players out there made any similar or other customizations that have allowed them to play with the PD+ pain free? Or should I just resign myself that the PD+ isn't for me and I need to look for something else?

stox
03-05-2008, 07:05 AM
You could fill it with a shock absorbing foam. Alot of racquets throughout the years (POG, PK Redondo, Vantage customs) are filled with such a material.

ionutzakis
03-05-2008, 07:08 AM
DO NOT PUT WEIGHT IN THE HANDLE!!!

The PD+ becomes user friendly only if you put more weight to the head than on the handle, due to its high stiffness.

Put 2-3 grams at 12 or 4-5 at 3&9 and you will notice a massive improvement in comfort and play.

Just do this and come back.

strike
03-05-2008, 07:13 AM
What kind of foam are you talking about, something at Home Depot?

How much weight do you think this adds to the racquet?

ionutzakis
03-05-2008, 07:15 AM
DON'T PUT WEIGHT IN THE HANDLE OF THE PD+, UNLESS YOU PUT MORE WEIGHT AT THE TOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All pros that have ever customized the PD+ have put more weight in the head than in the handle!

strike
03-05-2008, 07:23 AM
DON'T PUT WEIGHT IN THE HANDLE OF THE PD+, UNLESS YOU PUT MORE WEIGHT AT THE TOP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

All pros that have ever customized the PD+ have put more weight in the head than in the handle!

I'm willing to try it. This doesn't make it more head-heavy...and thus worse for the arm?

ionutzakis
03-05-2008, 07:29 AM
The reason for the arm pain are the bad vibrations. Adding mass to the head of the PD will greately diminish these vibrations. Start by putting 2grams at 12, then add 1 more at 12. Make sure you use slightly thicker strings, at least 1.25 to add more weight. Just try this and come back. This is the magic customization formula for us mortals, for PD+.

strike
03-05-2008, 07:34 AM
OK - so since the PD+ is 6pts headlight, your saying to not add any weight under the handle, rather add it at 3 & 9, which I presume results in it being more evenly balanced?

So if I removed all the tape currently on the racket, your saying add about 10 total grams back at 3 & 9, 5g on each side?

strike
03-05-2008, 07:35 AM
Gotcha...will give it a try once my arm pain is gone and post back the results.

Hope it works, I really don't want to start demoing rackets again! :(

thx!

jorel
03-05-2008, 09:03 AM
i know of a pro that puts weight at the top of the handle and no where else

ionutzakis
03-05-2008, 11:40 AM
OK - so since the PD+ is 6pts headlight, your saying to not add any weight under the handle, rather add it at 3 & 9, which I presume results in it being more evenly balanced?

So if I removed all the tape currently on the racket, your saying add about 10 total grams back at 3 & 9, 5g on each side?


yes, but start slow , with just 2-3 grams at 12

strike
03-05-2008, 12:00 PM
is it a bad idea to add lead in multiple positions?

i.e., add a small amount at 12, and some as well at 3 & 9

or best to stick just to one area?

SFrazeur
03-05-2008, 12:21 PM
Here are the customizations I used with the PD+:

The four lead strips are 5 and 1/4 inches. Located starting at the 7th cross string, ending just above the 17th cross string.

The gripsize is 4-1/4. I use TW brand leather (22mm x 1300mm x 1.5mm), which extends up 8 3/8 inches; measured from the endcap up.

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/SFrazeur/TT/100_0347.jpg http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r179/SFrazeur/TT/100_0348.jpg


-SF

I went back to the PDR+, it is more stable with less weight added. I have wound up just using the leather grip on it. I might add a bit of weight to the hoop, starting with just some head tape.

-SF

jorel
03-05-2008, 12:50 PM
Here are the customizations I used with the PD+:



I went back to the PDR+, it is more stable with less weight added. I have wound up just using the leather grip on it. I might add a bit of weight to the hoop, starting with just some head tape.

-SF

dont you find using the PDR+ is like using a K90 ?(really demanding)

SFrazeur
03-05-2008, 01:28 PM
dont you find using the PDR+ is like using a K90 ?(really demanding)

I consider them both "Player's racquet," even though I do not particularly like that term. They are demanding, however, they are demanding in different ways. I have not hit with the K90, very much at all. I have used the n90, for nearly a year. I do find the k90 to have a cooler, less hot, sweet spot than the n90.

The PDR+ requires a player have the ability to swing it quickly enough to generate the spin required to control the high level of power. Low powered mids in general require a player to be able to swing strong, heavily enough to generate enough power to control the racquet.

Lower powered racquets require less skilled spin mechanics to get reasonable results from them. Which is why many lower level players flock to midsizes. They allow them to not have to have the better, more constant spin machines that higher powered racquets require. All this is assuming that these players are at lest able bodied persons--for lack of a better preface. Higher powered racquets can hide stroke problems eith mechanics as well, albeit differently.

-SF

PED
03-05-2008, 01:38 PM
^^Nice summary SF. I totally agree. My PDR is my fav. You've got to have the racquet head speed to make it work but the combo of depth, spin and power is really addictive. After playing around with lead on mine, I went back to stock. 11.9 or so is perfect for me: I turn into a pumpkin over 12 oz :)

DashaandSafin
03-05-2008, 03:01 PM
Hey PED, I have a PDR also. I was just wondering what adding weight to the 3+9 did for you? I'm a basline basher. Basically, I think I may need more torque on the racquet to generate more racket head speed. I'm not getting enough...

Any help would be appreciated.

PED
03-05-2008, 04:01 PM
I like having my PDR stock. It's 6 pts headlight which means it's pretty easy to whip thru the strike zone. The lead @ 3 & 9 should give you a little more stability on contact as well as give you some more pop. The PD's are plenty powerful for me so I don't want any more pop. To generate more stick speed, you would want to make it more headlight, so you would need to add some to the handle to shift the weight down there.

For example, I have an APDC that has 8g of lead on the handle and 3g at the top of the hoop. The 3g in the head gives me a little more hurt on my groundstrokes and the 8g in the handle makes it a lot more headlight and I can really whip the APDC around. I tried another setup last fall with 3g in the handle and 9g at the head: it felt like a hammer! and I could get some wicked topspin with it, but my wrist hurt alot afterwards.

DashaandSafin
03-05-2008, 04:07 PM
So to generate more stick speed, i should put the lead on the bottom of the hoop? Or the handle?

PED
03-05-2008, 04:08 PM
The handle because it moves the weight away from the head and makes the head lighter and quicker to swing.

ionutzakis
03-06-2008, 12:59 AM
The handle because it moves the weight away from the head and makes the head lighter and quicker to swing.

yeah, and you'll also never hit a flat forehand again...

strike
03-06-2008, 04:10 AM
SF -

I actually have the PD Cortex Plus. Is it common to use head tape in that manner? Looks like you kind of overlapped 3&9 and 10&2.

I've gone ahead and restrung with X-One Biphase at 58, and will give this racquet a few more tries before I give up on it. I like the power, I'm hitting my forehands so much better than I did before. I just haven't quite dialed in my backhand yet.

Thx!

PED
03-06-2008, 05:08 AM
yeah, and you'll also never hit a flat forehand again...

I answered the handle because he wants to increase racquet head speed and to do that you would need to move mass AWAY from the head not add to it.

I agree that adding lead to the hoop does many things but INCREASING head speed is not one of them.

SFrazeur
03-06-2008, 02:27 PM
SF -

I actually have the PD Cortex Plus. Is it common to use head tape in that manner? Looks like you kind of overlapped 3&9 and 10&2.

I've gone ahead and restrung with X-One Biphase at 58, and will give this racquet a few more tries before I give up on it. I like the power, I'm hitting my forehands so much better than I did before. I just haven't quite dialed in my backhand yet.

Thx!

Babolat head tape has some weight to it, do not recall exactly how much, but sizable. The lead is slightly high. I simply wanted to achieve a widened sweetspot while rising it higher. As well as achieving a higher swing weight.

-SF

DashaandSafin
03-08-2008, 08:52 PM
yeah, and you'll also never hit a flat forehand again...

So true.. After using a Blue Gear and Titan hybrid, my balls were ALL SPINN and no power. It was amazing. I always thought my PDR would give me mass amounts of power but after stringing at 64, it felt more underpowered than my FXP Prestige Mid...amazing.

So I put on 4 grams of lead tape at hte 3 + 9. Havent hit but hoping there will be more pop. Was debating 10 + 2 because maybe my sweetspot is a bit higher so i decided to put the leadtape a tad higher, right where most of the ball fuzz was, which was around the area of the 3+9 anyway. Will report back to see how it feels.

notujoo
03-09-2008, 12:25 AM
my arm is dying! pdr+ + bb alu power rough@ 56+ 24hrs of tennis in a week=death of my arm.

PED
03-09-2008, 06:41 AM
If you want more pop, why don't you take the easier route and drop your tension a few pounds. The reason I mention is this is that you state that you are looking for power and a drop in tension should accomplish this is a hurry. Isn't Gamma live wire a multi? If so going to poly would account for some of the drop in power.

One more point, if you really want some pop, stick 10grams of lead at the top the hoop on your PDR and that will give you plenty of pop.

strike
03-16-2008, 05:16 AM
The PD+ becomes user friendly only if you put more weight to the head than on the handle, due to its high stiffness.


So far I would say you are right on! Thanks for the insight. Yesterday was my first time back on the court since my arm acted up and I started this thread. I removed all lead tape on the PD+ from before, and put back on 6 grams (3 ea side) at 10 & 2, as well as 3 grams (1.5 ea side) at 3 & 9. I also had it restrung with X-One Biphase 57.5 lbs.

I could tell a substantial difference from the first hit. It was much more solid and felt more powerful as well. Generally I was very happy with it.

In the last couple weeks, I also picked up a used Wilson nTour nCode Two 95. Had it strung with Leona 66 at 57 lbs. Both my doubles partner and I hit with both rackets (he uses a PD+ too), and both felt less stress on the arm with the nTour. It clearly is less powerful than the PD+, but overall a very nice racket. He suffers from TE, and wrist problems, of which the nTour helped immensely for him. So he he is definitely off the PD+ now.

For me, I still prefer the PD+, but if I have to, I could easily adjust and be very happy with the nTour. Going back between the two, I found I could definitely feel some vibration still in the PD+, but it was definitely better than before.

My next outing is tomorrow night, and I am likely going to shift the weight between 10/2 and 3/9. Thus the 6 grams will be at 3/9 and the 3 grams at 10/2. My hope is this will provide better stability and cut down even more on the vibration.

PED
03-16-2008, 06:07 AM
Sounds like that X one is the way to go. I've heard lots of good reports on the X1 strung up in PD. The NRG 2 is supposed to be nice as well in there.

I've been having issues with my lead setup in my APDC: I was running 8g in the handle and 3 g at 12 oclock. I've now shifted it to 4g in the handle and 6g and 12 and it's giving me what I want. The variables are infinite but it sounds like you have yours figured out. That's one reason I moved up to PDR as it had more weight on board stock.

RoddickistheMan
03-16-2008, 11:24 AM
Have you tried just increasing trhe grip size a bit. TRy putting some overgrips over the grip and see what happens. I mean elbow pain could be from the grip being too small. I had similar problems until I increased the grip size on my racquets. Pain went away almost instantly. Now when I use small grips the pain returns.

Casco
03-16-2008, 05:14 PM
What I find particularly interesting is that the data from the Jura post regarding pro racquet specs from the 2005 French Open indicates that the balance on most or many of the pro racquets isn't much different from the original, unweighted factory spec (i.e., 300-315mm), but that the weights are substantially higher. The added weight, therefore, for many pros, must be added to both the head and the handle. Also noteworthy, particularly in light of this discussion, is Nadal's spec - his balance point is higher than the average racquet listed, 322.

PED
03-16-2008, 05:36 PM
Casco, from reading elsewhere on the boards, Nadal uses alot of lead in the head: I believe the specs are 2.5g on the handle and 9.5g at the top of the hoop-I tried that setup but it was a bit too hard on my wrist ;) Still, the spin was awesome!

strike
03-17-2008, 04:14 AM
Have you tried just increasing trhe grip size a bit. TRy putting some overgrips over the grip and see what happens. I mean elbow pain could be from the grip being too small. I had similar problems until I increased the grip size on my racquets. Pain went away almost instantly. Now when I use small grips the pain returns.

I did in fact add a layer of Tourna Grip to it. It is a 4 3/8 grip, and supposedly the Babolats are slightly larger than all the rest (at least to hear it from the local tennis guru), so it is not a real small grip. It does feel larger than the nTour, which is also 4 3/8 and has a layer of Tourna Grip also.

Will report back on moving the weights helps much after my match tonight.

ionutzakis
03-17-2008, 05:54 AM
So far I would say you are right on! Thanks for the insight. Yesterday was my first time back on the court since my arm acted up and I started this thread. I removed all lead tape on the PD+ from before, and put back on 6 grams (3 ea side) at 10 & 2, as well as 3 grams (1.5 ea side) at 3 & 9. I also had it restrung with X-One Biphase 57.5 lbs.

I could tell a substantial difference from the first hit. It was much more solid and felt more powerful as well. Generally I was very happy with it.

In the last couple weeks, I also picked up a used Wilson nTour nCode Two 95. Had it strung with Leona 66 at 57 lbs. Both my doubles partner and I hit with both rackets (he uses a PD+ too), and both felt less stress on the arm with the nTour. It clearly is less powerful than the PD+, but overall a very nice racket. He suffers from TE, and wrist problems, of which the nTour helped immensely for him. So he he is definitely off the PD+ now.

For me, I still prefer the PD+, but if I have to, I could easily adjust and be very happy with the nTour. Going back between the two, I found I could definitely feel some vibration still in the PD+, but it was definitely better than before.

My next outing is tomorrow night, and I am likely going to shift the weight between 10/2 and 3/9. Thus the 6 grams will be at 3/9 and the 3 grams at 10/2. My hope is this will provide better stability and cut down even more on the vibration.

move the weight from 10&14 to 12! Just 2 grams, the other one take it off

strike
03-17-2008, 06:58 AM
move the weight from 10&14 to 12! Just 2 grams, the other one take it off

From what I understand, that will only increase the swing weight and add even more power.

Since that isn't my goal; I want to decrease vibration, add stability, etc. to the frame, shouldn't I be adding at 3/9 and 10/2?

ionutzakis
03-17-2008, 08:33 AM
but I said to not put the whole weight at 12, but to put half what you had at 12&12 and take the rest off, this will not add to swingweight if you take weight off, but no more vibrations this way

strike
03-17-2008, 08:52 AM
but I said to not put the whole weight at 12, but to put half what you had at 12&12 and take the rest off, this will not add to swingweight if you take weight off, but no more vibrations this way

k - I thought you meant to take it all off.

So leave the 6 grams at 3/9, and move 2 of the 3 grams at 10/2 to 12.

Will give that a try too.

thx

strike
03-18-2008, 06:10 AM
My next outing is tomorrow night, and I am likely going to shift the weight between 10/2 and 3/9. Thus the 6 grams will be at 3/9 and the 3 grams at 10/2. My hope is this will provide better stability and cut down even more on the vibration.

Aside from the fact my partner and I played like dogs...I didn't like this lead tape configuration as much, and it also hurt my arm more. It was a little more stable, but I felt like I wasn't hitting it as cleanly as I did with more weight at 10/2.

I have a match on Friday, so will try either moving some weight to 12 or something in between these last two. My gut tells me the best configuration might be 5 grams on each side at 9:30 & 1:30. (to provide both the stability of 3/9 but also have more effect of raising the sweet spot as 10/2 does)

Either that or I am searching for a PDRC standard or going to the nTour.

PED
03-18-2008, 06:15 AM
Save your self time and trouble and pick up a PDR-you'll wonder why it took you so long. Truly a great stick and the weight is perfect and the stability is much improved over the normal pd.

strike
03-18-2008, 06:17 AM
Save your self time and trouble and pick up a PDR-you'll wonder why it took you so long. Truly a great stick and the weight is perfect and the stability is much improved over the normal pd.

I'm starting to think that way....

Will give it one more try, and then I think I will be doing just that.

strike
03-18-2008, 06:23 AM
Save your self time and trouble and pick up a PDR-you'll wonder why it took you so long. Truly a great stick and the weight is perfect and the stability is much improved over the normal pd.

Are you using the Cortex version?

strike
03-24-2008, 07:14 AM
After another outing with the PD+, in which I had less pain, but still just wasn't right, I in fact decided to upgrade to the PDR standard length. Got a good deal on a used one, but looks almost new! (thx fuji)

My new racquet has now arrived, and the PD+ is already sold and shipped.

I'm playing tonight and looking forward to trying out the PDR! :)
I plan on keeping the nTour in my bag for awhile just in case though...

strike
03-25-2008, 06:15 AM
I was a little hesitant last night to pick up the PDR and use since it as this was in a USTA match... :) However, I got out early and hit with a teammate, and really liked it.

It definitely is more sold and stable than the PD+. It is strung with Babolat Xcel Premium at 56 lbs, and that seems like a good combo. I felt like I had just as much power and spin, and even more control. I didn't have any arm pain except a little stiffness that is left over from before...however the PDR did not exaggerate it in the least, and there was no issue playing all out.

Overall, I felt more comfortable on every stroke with PDR compared to the PD+. So PED, you were correct, wish I had switched earlier, and demo'd it originally. There's no lead tape on it, just a dampener, but as is my nature, I might try just a few grams in the head...but overall, very happy I made the switch!

Match results: won 6-3, 6-2 :)

PED
03-25-2008, 07:03 AM
Strike, I'm glad it worked out for you. I demoed the PDR 3 times over the last 18 months before buying so I know where you are coming from. I tried 3g in the handle of the PDR to make it a bit more headlight but that ended up taking away some of the feel, so I'm just playing mine stock. Let me know how your mods go. It's a deadly stick with some serious power and just so fun to use!

GPB
03-25-2008, 09:41 AM
I've been demoing a PD and a PDR, both with the Cortex system, and really like them. Recently, I found an older PD+ (with no cortex) on the bay about to close out and bought it for what I thought was a steal, thinking it would have a feel somewhere between my two demos.

Will it?

I didn't realize it had no Cortex. I've been having arm/shoulder fatigue... does the Cortex make a huge difference?