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View Full Version : natural gut tension on a 93sq.in frame


jjordache
03-12-2008, 10:08 AM
Cheers all,
In my first foray into natural gut I strung my new KBlade Tour with Babolat Tonic+ (16) at 56lbs and after hitting with it for a few
days I'm a bit disappointed by how stiff it feels. It's definitely an improvement over the Sensation 16 that came in the TW demo (strung at mid-tension I assume, 55ish), but I was expecting a bit more cushioning and ball pocketing, this being natural gut and all that...

So my question is, after I break these strings how low should I try to restring it, assuming I want to keep the Baboloat Tonic+ ?
I was thinking 52 but I'm not sure this is low enough to feel any difference.
Any other strings you suggest trying with this frame ?

Pro_Tour_630
03-12-2008, 10:44 AM
yet another disappointment with tonic, not surprising

Carlito
03-12-2008, 10:54 AM
Personally, I have no problem with Tonic. The guy said it is better than Sensation and I believe tonic is better than any sythetic out. And since it was his first experience with gut, he probably expected gut to have some magical powers, the likes of which can totally change one's game. The truth is, gut is great but I can't say it makes all sythetics suck in comparison.

He probably would have said the same thing if he used pacific gut or another gut. However, I will say that the 17g vs is much better than the tonic, but that is because of the guage.

The K blade tour is almost a clone of the prestige classic. It is a small head with a dense string pattern. I played with the prestige for a long while. Thin gauges really help out on frames with such dense string patterns.

jjordache
03-12-2008, 11:03 AM
Personally, I have no problem with Tonic. The guy said it is better than Sensation and I believe tonic is better than any sythetic out. And since it was his first experience with gut, he probably expected gut to have some magical powers, the likes of which can totally change one's game. The truth is, gut is great but I can't say it makes all sythetics suck in comparison.

LOL, that's funny but not exactly true.. I didn't expect my game to change radically because of ng but I was expecting to feel a stronger distinction between the synthetic Sensation and natural gut, which is supposed to be easier on the arm, provide better "ball pocketing" etc.
Don't get me wrong, I do like the Tonic+ and I think is better than the multifillaments I was playing before.
I was just wondering whether by decreasing the string tension I can increase the playability or not.
If you have other suggestion in this price range, please do tell !

jjordache
03-12-2008, 11:07 AM
Thin gauges really help out on frames with such dense string patterns.

Ah, that's a good suggestion, I was thinking about trying a thinner gauge too.
I see that Klip legend 17 is in the same price range, I might try that next.

jjordache
03-12-2008, 11:08 AM
yet another disappointment with tonic, not surprising

I read only good things about the tonic... have you been disappointed with it ? why ?

Ichiryu
03-12-2008, 11:09 AM
The K blade tour is almost a clone of the prestige classic. It is a small head with a dense string pattern. I played with the prestige for a long while. Thin gauges really help out on frames with such dense string patterns.

Yeah the K blade has a really dense pattern and it makes it feel stiff because of that. I've found that by using a 18g it's almost equal to the feel of using a 17g on a less dense 18x20 frame.

fastdunn
03-12-2008, 11:20 AM
Cheers all,
In my first foray into natural gut I strung my new KBlade Tour with Babolat Tonic+ (16) at 56lbs and after hitting with it for a few
days I'm a bit disappointed by how stiff it feels. It's definitely an improvement over the Sensation 16 that came in the TW demo (strung at mid-tension I assume, 55ish), but I was expecting a bit more cushioning and ball pocketing, this being natural gut and all that...

So my question is, after I break these strings how low should I try to restring it, assuming I want to keep the Baboloat Tonic+ ?
I was thinking 52 but I'm not sure this is low enough to feel any difference.
Any other strings you suggest trying with this frame ?

Something does not sound quite right here. Are you sure the racquet is strung properly?
What is your exact usual tension with synthetic mono on this frame ?

Carlito
03-12-2008, 11:21 AM
LOL, that's funny but not exactly true.. I didn't expect my game to change radically because of ng but I was expecting to feel a stronger distinction between the synthetic Sensation and natural gut, which is supposed to be easier on the arm, provide better "ball pocketing" etc.
Don't get me wrong, I do like the Tonic+ and I think is better than the multifillaments I was playing before.
I was just wondering whether by decreasing the string tension I can increase the playability or not.
If you have other suggestion in this price range, please do tell !

I know what you mean. The thing is, sensation is already a very soft string. And in the terms of softness the distinction between that and gut is not that different.

All I meant was that some of people expect natural gut to feel a million times better than synthetics but its not. It is better though.

A 17g gut will probably be better on that frame. I haven't tried anything besides Babolat and pacific gut though. If you go with synthetics, TF NRG2 and Bipahse even come in 18g. I know people will argue with me on this but those 2 are pretty close to gut, playwise. But gut last a lot longer and holds tension much better.

Just remeber, people bougt that frame for the control. The dense string pattern is supposed to make it feel board like.

jjordache
03-12-2008, 11:45 AM
Something does not sound quite right here. Are you sure the racquet is strung properly?
What is your exact usual tension with synthetic mono on this frame ?

I just got this frame and never played with a 93 before either.
My previous racquet was a 100 and I usually strung it with multi (TNT2) at 60lbs.

jjordache
03-12-2008, 11:52 AM
I know what you mean. The thing is, sensation is already a very soft string. And in the terms of softness the distinction between that and gut is not that different.

That may explain why I don't see significant difference...

All I meant was that some of people expect natural gut to feel a million times better than synthetics but its not. It is better though.

A 17g gut will probably be better on that frame. I haven't tried anything besides Babolat and pacific gut though. If you go with synthetics, TF NRG2 and Bipahse even come in 18g. I know people will argue with me on this but those 2 are pretty close to gut, playwise. But gut last a lot longer and holds tension much better.

Just remeber, people bougt that frame for the control. The dense string pattern is supposed to make it feel board like.

yep, I really like the control this frame gives me, now I just need to make it a bit more forgiving on the arm. I don't necessary have problems with it the way it is now but I'd like to protect my arm on the long run.

I'm not a heavy string breaker either so I'll definitively have to try 17 and maybe even 18.

jjordache
03-12-2008, 12:02 PM
Yeah the K blade has a really dense pattern and it makes it feel stiff because of that. I've found that by using a 18g it's almost equal to the feel of using a 17g on a less dense 18x20 frame.

Which 18g are you using ?

TonyB
03-12-2008, 02:30 PM
A couple of things that I've noticed about gut:

1) Gut does feel a bit stiff at first. It sort of gives you the feeling like "gee, I thought this was supposed to be comfortable??" until it breaks in after a while. While it's certainly better than poly and breaks in faster than most multifilaments, it still does require a break-in period.

That said, it certainly provides the most power, ball control, feel, and pocketing right away compared to any other string. But it's not a night-and-day difference right away.

2) There is nothing wrong with Tonic+. It is actually softer than the Klip Legend initially. I am having a tough time deciding which gut I prefer at the moment. I'm leaning towards the Legend because it's available in thinner gauges. But otherwise, they play very similarly.

3) The main benefit that you'll see with gut isn't the "Wow" factor right away, but rather the accumulated benefits that you see over time. The comfort increases over time, the power curve is very flat over time, the spin generation stays very high over time, and the tension stability is unmatched. You can play with a set of gut for 30+ hours without sensing any appreciable change in feel or power. Try that with poly or synthetics.


All in all, it's the best string by far. However, if you have special needs, then it might not be for you. Maybe you don't care about playing with one set of strings for 30 hours. Or maybe you want MORE spin. Or maybe LESS power. Who knows. But the bottom line is that gut is the best all-around string, having the best balance of properties compared with any other string material on the market.

And at $25 per set (Klip Legend or Tonic+), it's not THAT much more expensive than a high-end multifilament anyway.

bagung
03-12-2008, 03:05 PM
Cheers all,
In my first foray into natural gut I strung my new KBlade Tour with Babolat Tonic+ (16) at 56lbs and after hitting with it for a few
days I'm a bit disappointed by how stiff it feels. It's definitely an improvement over the Sensation 16 that came in the TW demo (strung at mid-tension I assume, 55ish), but I was expecting a bit more cushioning and ball pocketing, this being natural gut and all that...

So my question is, after I break these strings how low should I try to restring it, assuming I want to keep the Baboloat Tonic+ ?
I was thinking 52 but I'm not sure this is low enough to feel any difference.
Any other strings you suggest trying with this frame ?

on my 16x19 dnx-10 mid, i strung gut at 56 lbs... however on the 18x20 mid, i have mine at 52 lbs max... 18x20 give stiffer feel on the string-bed than on the 16x19..

jjordache
03-12-2008, 03:05 PM
A couple of things that I've noticed about gut:

1) Gut does feel a bit stiff at first. It sort of gives you the feeling like "gee, I thought this was supposed to be comfortable??" until it breaks in after a while. While it's certainly better than poly and breaks in faster than most multifilaments, it still does require a break-in period.

That said, it certainly provides the most power, ball control, feel, and pocketing right away compared to any other string. But it's not a night-and-day difference right away.

2) There is nothing wrong with Tonic+. It is actually softer than the Klip Legend initially. I am having a tough time deciding which gut I prefer at the moment. I'm leaning towards the Legend because it's available in thinner gauges. But otherwise, they play very similarly.

3) The main benefit that you'll see with gut isn't the "Wow" factor right away, but rather the accumulated benefits that you see over time. The comfort increases over time, the power curve is very flat over time, the spin generation stays very high over time, and the tension stability is unmatched. You can play with a set of gut for 30+ hours without sensing any appreciable change in feel or power. Try that with poly or synthetics.


All in all, it's the best string by far. However, if you have special needs, then it might not be for you. Maybe you don't care about playing with one set of strings for 30 hours. Or maybe you want MORE spin. Or maybe LESS power. Who knows. But the bottom line is that gut is the best all-around string, having the best balance of properties compared with any other string material on the market.

Thanks for the comprehensive comments! I haven't played more than 6hrs with these strings so i'll yet have to see how they work out for me on the long run. I'll use them till they break in any case.

Unfortunately some small injuries (non tennis related) and these cursed spring allergies are keeping me off the courts, while all I want is to go out there and play my new racquet and natural gut strings !! :( /rant off


Still, going back to my initial question, do you think a drop of 4-5lbs in tension would make a difference in terms of "stiffness" for these strings ?


And at $25 per set (Klip Legend or Tonic+), it's not THAT much more expensive than a high-end multifilament anyway.

Exactly! And given that I'm not much of a string breaker it makes even more sense for me to use them.

fastdunn
03-12-2008, 03:52 PM
I just got this frame and never played with a 93 before either.
My previous racquet was a 100 and I usually strung it with multi (TNT2) at 60lbs.

ok i got it. you basically do not have much data to compare to yet.
you just have to experiment a bit.

by the way, natural gut can feel stiffer than multi at relatively low impact.
but it's real value is its reaction to heavy impact, which cups the ball better than any synthetic.

this may sound conflicting but nat gut can be crisp and soft at the same time !!!

anyway, i would recommend to give it more time experimenting.

after 3 stringing jobs with 2 different natural guts(Titan initially, and then Tonic+),
and after about 10-15 hours of struggling/adjusting my swings with natural guts' very different characteristics,
I had a few zoning experiences.

I cannot forget that moment.
I wish you have same moments I had. The moment you make a first contact with a beast inside natural gut. It's great feeling.

Good luck.

jjordache
03-12-2008, 04:07 PM
by the way, natural gut can feel stiffer than multi at relatively low impact.
but it's real value is its reaction to heavy impact, which cups the ball better than any synthetic.


You know what, now that I think about it I totally felt it that way but until I read your post I couldn't have verbalized it !!
Great, thanks for the input !

TonyB
03-12-2008, 07:23 PM
Still, going back to my initial question, do you think a drop of 4-5lbs in tension would make a difference in terms of "stiffness" for these strings ?




Sure it would. However, the power level increase might not be what you're looking for.

That said, I'm shocked that you still find natural gut to be stiff after playing for 6 hours. When I said "not right away", I meant something along the lines of an hour or two. But at 6 hours, the stringbed should be well broken in.

Between 3 hours of play and 30 hours of play, gut simply cannot be beat. If you are looking for a softer stringbed, you can certainly try to lower the tension, but I'm afraid it would be too powerful.

hyogen
03-15-2008, 12:26 AM
A couple of things that I've noticed about gut:

1) Gut does feel a bit stiff at first. It sort of gives you the feeling like "gee, I thought this was supposed to be comfortable??" until it breaks in after a while. While it's certainly better than poly and breaks in faster than most multifilaments, it still does require a break-in period.

That said, it certainly provides the most power, ball control, feel, and pocketing right away compared to any other string. But it's not a night-and-day difference right away.

2) There is nothing wrong with Tonic+. It is actually softer than the Klip Legend initially. I am having a tough time deciding which gut I prefer at the moment. I'm leaning towards the Legend because it's available in thinner gauges. But otherwise, they play very similarly.

3) The main benefit that you'll see with gut isn't the "Wow" factor right away, but rather the accumulated benefits that you see over time. The comfort increases over time, the power curve is very flat over time, the spin generation stays very high over time, and the tension stability is unmatched. You can play with a set of gut for 30+ hours without sensing any appreciable change in feel or power. Try that with poly or synthetics.


All in all, it's the best string by far. However, if you have special needs, then it might not be for you. Maybe you don't care about playing with one set of strings for 30 hours. Or maybe you want MORE spin. Or maybe LESS power. Who knows. But the bottom line is that gut is the best all-around string, having the best balance of properties compared with any other string material on the market.

And at $25 per set (Klip Legend or Tonic+), it's not THAT much more expensive than a high-end multifilament anyway.

hmm...very informative post :o going gut may end up saving me money if it lasts me almost a month for like $25 or so.

any recommendation for ME? I use a pure storm tour. I've been tracking my stringing progress here: http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=185469

so far i've gathered that it's better to use nat. gut in the mains. I am thinking that luxilon is too expensive and not worth it for the crosses as it'll make everything stiffer AND will cut up my natural gut mains quicker... so what should i do?

or is it worth it to go full nat. gut :O

thanks,

montx
03-15-2008, 03:08 AM
I also have a kblade ktour, i just want to say I string it with VS on the mains at 60 and luxilon on cross at 57. For me, the racquet works a dream.

I think if you drop the tension too much it means you can do without the extra control that the tension provides, I would string it slightly higher say at 60 and see what you think.

Bad Dog
03-15-2008, 08:39 AM
Still, going back to my initial question, do you think a drop of 4-5lbs in tension would make a difference in terms of "stiffness" for these strings ?

My suggestion is next time do not pre-stretch natural gut. Some stringers like to prestretch natural gut, but many recommend against it. Here is my quote from another thread:


Even Federer’s natural gut mains are in the low 50’s.

My suggestion: Do NOT pre-stretch. Vigorous pre-stretching may damage or severely reduce natural gut’s amazing ball “cupping” or “pocketing” capability. :)

These are just my personal opinions, and others are free to disagree.

Bad Dog
03-15-2008, 08:46 AM
by the way, natural gut can feel stiffer than multi at relatively low impact.
but it's real value is its reaction to heavy impact, which cups the ball better than any synthetic.

this may sound conflicting but nat gut can be crisp and soft at the same time !!!
I had a few zoning experiences.

I cannot forget that moment.
I wish you have same moments I had. The moment you make a first contact with a beast inside natural gut. It's great feeling.

^^^^^

Tennis does not get better than that feeling :)

jjordache
03-15-2008, 11:45 AM
My suggestion is next time do not pre-stretch natural gut. Some stringers like to prestretch natural gut, but many recommend against it. Here is my quote from another thread:

Interesting... this frame was strung by TW, any idea whether they pre-strech the natural gut or not ?

tarkowski
05-30-2008, 03:05 PM
I recommend VS Team 17 @ 54. I think you'll see a marked improvement in comfort from your current set-up. The tight pattern really screams for a thinner guage. The low power allows for lower tensions with still excellent control.

Let us know what you do and how it goes!

Take care

jjordache
05-30-2008, 03:22 PM
I recommend VS Team 17 @ 54. I think you'll see a marked improvement in comfort from your current set-up. The tight pattern really screams for a thinner guage. The low power allows for lower tensions with still excellent control.

Let us know what you do and how it goes!

Thanks for the suggestion but since then I moved away from the KBT... I returned it because (I believe) it was cracked. It was really hurting my arm and it played very differently from the demo.
On my current setup I'm back to a multi at around 60lbs, which apparently is what works best for me.

tarkowski
05-30-2008, 03:25 PM
Thanks for the suggestion but since then I moved away from the KBT... I returned it because (I believe) it was cracked. It was really hurting my arm and it played very differently from the demo.
On my current setup I'm back to a multi at around 60lbs, which apparently is what works best for me.

Cool. Are you playing the iPrestige or the new MG?

jjordache
05-30-2008, 03:38 PM
Cool. Are you playing the iPrestige or the new MG?

The iPrestige... I was playing with the MG and having fun with it before "discovering" the iPrestige... much more solid frame and the specs are right on the spot for me.
Further more, I don't even touch the MG now because it's a 5/8 and after so much demoing I found out that I really like 4 1/2 a lot more !! So I'm looking to trade it now :/