PDA

View Full Version : Knots & uniformity question...


DJG
03-13-2008, 05:28 AM
Ok, I'm pretty new at stringing (well, not really, I just have not done it for 15+ years, so with my new machine I consider myself a newbie) having done 7 frames since receiving my new machine. This morning I was asked a question which I didn't quite know the answer for...

I typically do hybrid/2-piece stringing on all my frames, with a starting knot and 3 Parnell knots at the tie-off points. The question I had was: why I'm not using the starting knot as an ending knot as well.

I don't quite know the technical reason behind this. I don't know why it is (is not) possible, but can see a benefit of having uniform knots (without starting clamps) and the tie-off knots having a tail closer to the stringbed.

YULitle
03-13-2008, 05:45 AM
Well, I think that if you tighten your knots as you should, then you'd see why you can't use a starting knot. A starting knot can't be tightened properly. It is designed solely to be bulky and keep from flying through the grommet when it has tension applied directly to it.

Now, if you are the type of person who just pulls his knots tight without, at the same time, taking up the slack string that is not tensioned, this knot won't help nor hurt you. To see what I mean about tensioning knots properly, look at my video here:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QS_tnFwUbjM

Once you learn to tighten your knots like this, you'll see why using a starting knot is out of the question.

Furthermore, it isn't even viable when tightening improperly as it is very difficult to tie, tighten AND have it seated against the grommet. Having the knot off of the grommet when you let go of your last clamps leads to even more tension loss than improperly tightening the knot does alone.

Bud
03-13-2008, 05:49 AM
Well, I think that if you tighten your knots as you should, then you'd see why you can't use a starting knot. A starting knot can't be tightened properly. It is designed solely to be bulky and keep from flying through the grommet when it has tension applied directly to it.

Now, if you are the type of person who just pulls his knots tight without, at the same time, taking up the slack string that is not tensioned, this knot won't help nor hurt you. To see what I mean about tensioning knots properly, look at my video here:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QS_tnFwUbjM

Once you learn to tighten your knots like this, you'll see why using a starting knot is out of the question.

Furthermore, it isn't even viable when tightening improperly as it is very difficult to tie, tighten AND have it seated against the grommet. Having the knot off of the grommet when you let go of your last clamps leads to even more tension loss than improperly tightening the knot does alone.

I concur. Try it and you'll see why it doesn't work. That's always the best way.

A starting knot is meant to slide along the anchor string (main) so as not to apply force and prematurely break the anchor string.

iplaybetter
03-13-2008, 05:51 AM
i use a fishing knot with a normal ty-off on top to keep the tail from pulling through

DJG
03-13-2008, 07:52 AM
Now, if you are the type of person who just pulls his knots tight without, at the same time, taking up the slack string that is not tensioned, this knot won't help nor hurt you. To see what I mean about tensioning knots properly, look at my video here:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=QS_tnFwUbjM

Thanks.

Yes, I came to exactly the same conclusion while I was out for my afternoon knock and away from the machine. (Maybe since your vids got me up to speed again.) The thing with a starting knot is that it pulls tight from the wrong direction - if you leave slack, it may be workable, otherwise you will lose tension as you've indicated.

Richard Parnell
03-13-2008, 09:25 AM
DJG,
That is what differentiates between a starting and finishing knot. Where it tightens from. A starting knot tightens by pulling from the outside and a finishing from the inside. Why not use a starting clamp (if you have one) and then do all finishing knots.
All the best,
Richard

DJG
03-13-2008, 09:32 AM
DJG,
That is what differentiates between a starting and finishing knot. Where it tightens from. A starting knot tightens by pulling from the outside and a finishing from the inside. Why not use a starting clamp (if you have one) and then do all finishing knots.
All the best,
Richard

Thanks Richard. While I don't have a starting clamp, I do think I should think of getting one. Since this question was asked of me, the 3 Parnell knots and different sliding knot has started bugging me. :) Starting clamp it will be.