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View Full Version : New groundstroke vid w/ stats included! Plz comment, Don't worry, I'm not defensive


NotAtTheNet
03-28-2008, 07:52 AM
Hey guys, don't want to be one of those every week vid posters, but went out the other day and really tried to focus on everything you all commented:

- less jumping, sit and lift
- make contact more in front
- follow thru cross body
- incorporate legs into stroke
- turn my shoulder
- better footwork
- extend left arm
- more consistency and placement, don't worry about power

looked back at my old vid, and I think i made some decent improvement (thanks!). I also tried to see if i can pull off a 1hdbh (no formal instruction just fuzzy yellow balls). Lots of stuff I need to work on but I'm starting to feel confident enough to try to join a league and get some playing time against ppl who employ a different play style, different and higher skill levels, etc... rather than playing against my dad or the wall. If you guys could help me fine tune somethings or point out some gross errors that'd be great. Also if you can give me an estimate on my NTRP (my serve and volley are about the same level, I can control it to go down the line or cross court, inside is just ok...), so I can gauge the level of player I should try to play against that'd be stellar. I added some stats for your consideration as well.

New Vid:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=IqM985JKCTo

Stats:
% forehand in (48/55): 87.3%
% 2hdbh in (12/18 ): 66.7%*
% 1hdbh in (20/24): 83.3%
--------------------------
% total in (80/97): 82.5%

* I hit my 2 hander mainly when I was out of position bc its more instinctive, which explains the drop in percentage, usually my 2 hander is my rock; nice and consistent.

Heres a link to my old vid too if you want to juxtapose:
http://youtube.com/watch?v=GYe4oYoZ0HY

For future reference, wheres the best spot to place the video camera? I've been doing mostly side profiles, bc it gives me the best shot of where I'm hitting the ball. Thanks in advance guys, I know the critiques will be a big help. Don't be afraid to be harsh, I don't make any claims of playing less than a year (played from 14-19, took off about 5 years, getting back into it now for 2 months at 25...), and you have your 1st amendment to your opinion whether i suck or not. Maybe next time I'll be confident enough to post a match play vid.

Oh been mixing in music to my vids, bc I guess they're boring and it drowns out my swear words when I mess up...

daku10
03-28-2008, 08:45 AM
i like your strokes...they seem smooth...but maybe hitting on the rise would be better...sorry, very tired to write anything else down...

Djokovicfan4life
03-28-2008, 08:54 AM
You stop your racquet just before you begin your forward swing on the forehand. Try to work on a more fluid takeback.

smoothtennis
03-28-2008, 09:16 AM
Way too many things to work on if you want to actually change. I suggest picking ONE thing, and dedicating your practice to that one thing.

Example - left arm extension. Still not extending. Watch Safin, what Hewitt, watch Haas, then watch your vid again. You gotta do that. It sets up your base better, and keeps your more balanced through impact.

Here is something I have done using a video, that I think might help you out. Take it with you to practice, set it up, and then pick the one thing you are going to work on. Work on it a few minutes, really concentrate hard, and then video 30 seconds of it. Stop hitting, and watch the vid right there on the court. See if you are doing what you think you were doing. If not, then exagerate it, and vid again, repeat. When you finally SEE what you want to see on the vid, remember exactly how it feels to do that when hitting.

Then, you practice that thing right then, and concentrate on that feeling. Vid again, and make sure you didn't regress your form. Watch it while you are right there on court. Did you get it? Good, go home.

Next session, you start by video of the previous session objective, and make sure you are still doing it. It must become muscle memory or it will never be a part of your game. This can save you weeks and months of 'hit and mis' subjective analysis on your part.

Forward swing is still too jerky. Don't wait until the ball is inches from your contact zone to start your forward swing.

chipsbuzz
03-28-2008, 10:17 AM
Don't know if you noticed... You switch between a closed and open stance while hitting your forehand. They both have their own benefits, but if you want to be more consistent, choose one and stick with it.

I may be wrong... so someone else comment if so.

NotAtTheNet
03-28-2008, 10:21 AM
Don't know if you noticed... You switch between a closed and open stance while hitting your forehand. They both have their own benefits, but if you want to be more consistent, choose one and stick with it.

I may be wrong... so someone else comment if so.

I switch between closed and open depending on if i want to go down the line, (closed) or cross court (open). Don't know if that is right or not. In actually, I hit the stance that I'm in after I ran to get the ball...

lolsmash
03-28-2008, 02:59 PM
I switch between closed and open depending on if i want to go down the line, (closed) or cross court (open). Don't know if that is right or not. In actually, I hit the stance that I'm in after I ran to get the ball...

I think its natural to hit with a closed stance when you step into a short ball and hit an approach shot or something of that sort. I usually use a more open stance when behind the baseline. To be honest, I don't think it's a problem to hit with both stances, as the pros do it also depending on the shot they get.

NotAtTheNet
03-28-2008, 05:27 PM
You stop your racquet just before you begin your forward swing on the forehand. Try to work on a more fluid takeback.

Hmm, I was always under the impression that I should wind up early and wait for the ball? I used to have a problem with hitting late, maybe then its my timing that needs practice.


Way too many things to work on if you want to actually change. I suggest picking ONE thing, and dedicating your practice to that one thing.

Thats actually a great idea, my mind wanders a bit with so many things to keep in mind. will definitely give this a try.

On a last note, any suggestions on what NTRP i should be? Not that I'm self absorbed in a "ranking" but I would like to know what range of players i should aim at to not be completely out classed. Thanks guys!

Kokopelli
03-28-2008, 05:35 PM
On your forehand, for your grip, I thought you hit the ball late. The point of contact is not far enough in front of the body.

Does anyone else have the same observation? Or am I totally wrong? Again, I should qualify that I'm no expert when it comes to judging people's techniques.

NLBwell
03-28-2008, 09:14 PM
Work on getting your racket back sooner and getting moving forward sooner - keep it smooth. You are hitting the ball late on both forehand and backhand. Try to move your contact point farther forward on both - for the backhand it should be in front of your body, you will feel much more strength hitting it there. Especially important for one handers. Also, for the forehand grip you have you should hit it near or in front of your left hip.
If you work on contacting the ball at the right point, a lot of other things may fall in line.
Don't worry about details about arms, follow-throughs, etc. They will tend to be OK if the fundamentals are right.

[K]aotic
03-28-2008, 09:31 PM
bend the knees and load of up on the back leg. when you bend your knees, you get more weight transfer AND you are more balanced.

smoothtennis
03-29-2008, 06:43 PM
Hard to estimate on NTRP, after I played 3.5, 4.0 and 4.5 all in one year. I am more confused now than ever on rating based on a video. Very hard to get an accurate assesement.

Based on a lot of little things I see in your technique, and footwork, I would put you somewhere from 3.0-3.5.

daku10
03-29-2008, 07:27 PM
I switch between closed and open depending on if i want to go down the line, (closed) or cross court (open). Don't know if that is right or not. In actually, I hit the stance that I'm in after I ran to get the ball...

well i don't think this is good...an opponent would catch on to this pattern and you'd be telegraphing your shots each time making things a hell of a lot easier for him/her...

quicken
03-30-2008, 12:03 AM
Don't change your stance, change how far you hit the ball infront of your body if you want to change the direction of the ball.

vndesu
03-30-2008, 04:11 AM
id say step in more and use more body and legs.

NotAtTheNet
03-30-2008, 05:49 AM
Also, for the forehand grip you have you should hit it near or in front of your left hip.
If you work on contacting the ball at the right point, a lot of other things may fall in line.

I get this comment alot. I think maybe I'm swing too quickly instead of smoothly like smooth said, so i took a frame by frame of a few forehands. Is my contact point still to late? I usually make contact by my left foot. I think I look too upright too, probably should bend at the legs more to get down then dip my racquet head down right?

http://trucksunlimitedwhl.com/contactpoint.jpg

Rafael_Nadal_6257
03-30-2008, 03:52 PM
I would say better than a 3.0, maybe a 3.5 to 4.0, have to see you live...

Swinging quickly is okay as long as you accelerate through your swing motion and keep it smooth as others have said. Jerky, fast then slow, slow fast slow, are all bad. Try to keep your racket accelerating SMOOTHLY into the ball.

Your contact point is not too late, and you are right about your posture. Try to get down lower.

NotAtTheNet
03-30-2008, 07:12 PM
I have a weird self image perception when it comes to getting lower. I feel like I am but on film its obvious I'm still upright. My sifu said the same thing with my stances in Muay Thai. I'm going to try Smooth's exaggeration technique... odds are, me exaggerated is probably the correct form...

Thanks all for the kind NTRP ratings, I'll let you know if I get out classed...

Side note... Loving the Miami Sony Ericsson Open, traffic to key biscayne is a b*tch but so worth it to see Rafa in person. I used to work at the company sponsoring the draws (stanford financial) so i got a couple free tix from buddies of mine who's still there VAMOS RAFA!

tbini87
03-30-2008, 07:22 PM
if your two handed backhand is your rock then stick with it. seemed like you were switching between a 1hbh and 2hbh. a smoother, more controlled forehand would help your consistency (looks like you framed a few balls). do you have a slice forehand or bh? learning to slice is important... it will come very handy in the future.

can't really guess your level without seeing you play points and serve and everything. i would guess 3.5. what would you self rate at? do you ever get to play with people that are computer rated?

NotAtTheNet
03-30-2008, 07:29 PM
if your two handed backhand is your rock then stick with it. seemed like you were switching between a 1hbh and 2hbh. a smoother, more controlled forehand would help your consistency (looks like you framed a few balls). do you have a slice forehand or bh? learning to slice is important... it will come very handy in the future.

can't really guess your level without seeing you play points and serve and everything. i would guess 3.5. what would you self rate at? do you ever get to play with people that are computer rated?

I was just trying it out to see if I could hit it. I don't like how I can't get as much power from it, but it is an easier shot for me to hit cross court and low balls. Plus I tend to throw up a 1 hander on desperation if I'm on the run.

I do hit a BH slice, but can't hit a forehand one yet. It usually ends up being a chop shot if i try on the forehand side.

I plan on mixing it up by joining a few leagues around the Miami area and on campus. I'm getting a little complacent with playing against the same people.

smoothtennis
03-31-2008, 08:08 PM
NotAtNet - Hey bro, smoothing out that swing is going to do wonders for your game and consitency. My partner and I had a very specific term for the way you accelerate that stroke. We termed it the 'explosion'. I used to do it all the time, and he chastized me so many times we developed that term.

It took a lot of work, because it is a timing thing, but you can do it, don't give up, keep working at it.

Don't forget to keep the video handy on court when you try out your change, to see if you are doing what you think you are doing. It just saves so much time!

NotAtTheNet
04-01-2008, 06:11 AM
NotAtNet - Hey bro, smoothing out that swing is going to do wonders for your game and consitency. My partner and I had a very specific term for the way you accelerate that stroke. We termed it the 'explosion'. I used to do it all the time, and he chastized me so many times we developed that term.

It took a lot of work, because it is a timing thing, but you can do it, don't give up, keep working at it.

Don't forget to keep the video handy on court when you try out your change, to see if you are doing what you think you are doing. It just saves so much time!

Yeah I agree with you smooth, its just so natural for me to explode on the ball, but consistency is a big issue in my game (87% forehands in, horrible!). I think I'll probably have to spend some time deconstructing my swing mechanics and start slow. Its pretty indicative, bc until I warm up, I actually cannot hit the ball slowly, I seem to only be able to go all out in the beginning which is fundamentally wrong.

I akin it to some type of weird relapse muscle memory. For example, on classical guitar, theres a few difficult pieces I played years ago but haven't played again in years. Coming back to it, I can play it ok now but only at the right tempo, if i slow down, my fingers kind of forget whats next.

I think thats a similar analogy I have fore my forehand. I remember how to hit my kill shots but if i slow down a bit, my wrist kind of forgets where it needs to be, i kind of forget how my racquet should be, my footing, etc... (well not that bad to that extent, but you know where I'm getting at). Bleh, just means more time at the wall and try to slow things down. I'm not complaining though...

smoothtennis
04-01-2008, 10:47 AM
Yeah I agree with you smooth, its just so natural for me to explode on the ball, but consistency is a big issue in my game (87% forehands in, horrible!). I think I'll probably have to spend some time deconstructing my swing mechanics and start slow. Its pretty indicative, bc until I warm up, I actually cannot hit the ball slowly, I seem to only be able to go all out in the beginning which is fundamentally wrong.

I akin it to some type of weird relapse muscle memory. For example, on classical guitar, theres a few difficult pieces I played years ago but haven't played again in years. Coming back to it, I can play it ok now but only at the right tempo, if i slow down, my fingers kind of forget whats next.

I think thats a similar analogy I have fore my forehand. I remember how to hit my kill shots but if i slow down a bit, my wrist kind of forgets where it needs to be, i kind of forget how my racquet should be, my footing, etc... (well not that bad to that extent, but you know where I'm getting at). Bleh, just means more time at the wall and try to slow things down. I'm not complaining though...

Hey, that's a great analogy. I used to teach music lessons on saxophone, and it's the same thing there as you mentioned. One thing is certain in music. If you pracitice it slowly, and slowly add speed, you can get it really fast after a while. But if you start fast, you can't slow it down much unless you had a previous base.

Piano teachers have studied this, and say that we use different muscles for slow and fast playing.

In tennis, we should expect to be able to hit with exactly proper technique for a slow shot, as well as for a faster shot. What going fast does, in both tennis and martial arts, is cover up deficiencies we have. Build proper technique slowly, develop timing, and speed follows along with power. Power comes from technique, or should I say, consitent and efficient power come from technique. *wink*

Good luck.