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View Full Version : BH Slice, can't figure it out


GNIHT
03-30-2008, 07:57 AM
I'm setting up the same as Federer, same grip/backswing position above the shoulder, but at the begining of the forward swing my racquet lays down like a pizza tray.

Federer keeps his racquet on edge throughout the entire forward swing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHPdlGW4vEE

The forward swing of my BH slice looks more like Djokovic (only it doesn't work out as well for me :( )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFThz9QDYGo

Here is someone on youtube that also has my "pizza tray" problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFThz9QDYGo

How is Federer keeping his racquet on edge during the forward swing -- my racquet initially flattens out like a pizza tray on my forward swing.

GNIHT
03-30-2008, 08:00 AM
This is the person (I don't know them at all) on youtube who is doing "pizza tray" much like I do on the forward swing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeFUnGv9qYM

Jonny S&V
03-30-2008, 08:07 AM
I'm setting up the same as Federer, same grip/backswing position above the shoulder, but at the begining of the forward swing my racquet lays down like a pizza tray.

Federer keeps his racquet on edge throughout the entire forward swing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHPdlGW4vEE

The forward swing of my BH slice looks more like Djokovic (only it doesn't work out as well for me :( )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFThz9QDYGo

Here is someone on youtube that also has my "pizza tray" problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFThz9QDYGo

How is Federer keeping his racquet on edge during the forward swing -- my racquet initially flattens out like a pizza tray on my forward swing.

This is the person (I don't know them at all) on youtube who is doing "pizza tray" much like I do on the forward swing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeFUnGv9qYM

What you need to do is throw your opposite arm back. This will keep you balanced and keep you sideways longer, allowing you to carve under the ball better. You were looking for a way to not hit a flat-slice backhand, right?

Jackie T. Stephens
03-30-2008, 08:29 AM
Don't forget to tilt the racket when you get under the ball is follow through with your swing.

Bungalo Bill
03-30-2008, 08:36 AM
This is the person (I don't know them at all) on youtube who is doing "pizza tray" much like I do on the forward swing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeFUnGv9qYM

Your pizza tray (kind of a weird name for it) is what Ken Rosewall uses and he had a very good backhand.

http://www.operationdoubles.com/rosewall_backhand-a.gifhttp://www.operationdoubles.com/rosewall_backhand-b.gifhttp://www.operationdoubles.com/rosewall_backhand-c.gif

http://www.operationdoubles.com/rosewall_backhand2.gif

This a viable way to hit this shot. The key to this shot is the rotation of the forearm. You must supinate your forearm so that the racquet face can come level. Also notice the flatter racquet path and extension through the ball. Also, notice his weight transfer over the front leg. His shoulders remain perpendicular to the baseline and his feet go into recovery pretty quickly while having exceptional balance.

If you want to hit it the other way like Federer, then you need to sort of lock the forearm. From there you need to raise and lower the racquet from the shoulder. A long "L position should be maintained for most of the forward swing into followthrough.

Your weight should be transferred over your front leg and you should be balanced. I have talked about a drill before that you can look up to help you with your weight transfer and balance.

A way to control racquet movement in your hand (which sometimes can droop the racquet head under the ball too much), is to make sure the handle is sort of pushed up into the V of your hand between your index finger and thumb.

Rickson
03-30-2008, 08:40 AM
I'm setting up the same as Federer, same grip/backswing position above the shoulder, but at the begining of the forward swing my racquet lays down like a pizza tray.

Federer keeps his racquet on edge throughout the entire forward swing:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHPdlGW4vEE

The forward swing of my BH slice looks more like Djokovic (only it doesn't work out as well for me :( )
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFThz9QDYGo

Here is someone on youtube that also has my "pizza tray" problem:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFThz9QDYGo

How is Federer keeping his racquet on edge during the forward swing -- my racquet initially flattens out like a pizza tray on my forward swing.

Are you saying you keep an open face before contact? If you are, that's not a slice, that's float bait. My racquet face is either square or mildly open at contact and I have a hell of a slice. If you really are opening your face like a pizza tray, you should fix that habit.

GNIHT
03-30-2008, 09:49 AM
Bungalo Bill, from what you are saying, as I my racquet moves forward my arm initially pronates ("pizza tray" -- flattens out) and then my arm supinates dramtically as I get closer to the contact point.

I've tried to keep the racquet on edge like Federer -- I have really tried to lock my forearm to stop it from pronating initially. The trouble is, when I don't pronate I can't the ball over the net. Without the initial pronation, my slice barely even gets to the net, much less goes over.

Don't know how to hit the slice over the net without pronating at first and then supinating a ton.

Bungalo Bill
03-30-2008, 09:55 AM
Bungalo Bill, from what you are saying, as I my racquet moves forward my arm initially pronates ("pizza tray" -- flattens out) and then my arm supinates dramtically as I get closer to the contact point.

Yes, if you want to hit that way. There is nothing wrong with hitting that way but it does require extra effort in timing. Your ability to roll or supinate your forearm takes practice to time different balls. You also need similar swing path as the video clip shows. It is much flatter then the videos you showed.

I've tried to keep the racquet on edge like Federer -- I have really tried to lock my forearm to stop it from pronating initially. The trouble is, when I don't pronate I can't the ball over the net. Without the initial pronation, my slice barely even gets to the net, much less goes over.

That could be your racquet path. It might be too steep. Try flattening it out and go through the ball more. Make sure the swing is coming fro your shoulder.

Don't know how to hit the slice over the net without pronating at first and then supinating a ton.

Well if you keep hitting the way you are doing you are essentially rolling your forearm as your racquet head gets closer to contact. The racquet swing path is what allows you to hit a pentrating slice.

Zachol82
03-30-2008, 10:37 AM
Slice down vertically. The "pizza-tray" problem results from trying to brush under the ball...although it's not really a problem since that is still an affective slice.

Step into the ball then slice down vertically. Step INTO the ball is extremely important, if you don't get that forward momentum, it will be hard to slice down since your body will keep wanting to move forward.

Mountain Ghost
03-30-2008, 12:16 PM
At the setup, and throughout the stroke, the elbow should be pointing at about a 45 degree angle toward the ground.

1) Donít let your elbow point toward the net
2) Be sure your racquet head starts above the level of the approaching ball
3) Donít hit too far out in front

MG

35ft6
03-30-2008, 01:35 PM
This is the person (I don't know them at all) on youtube who is doing "pizza tray" much like I do on the forward swing:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeFUnGv9qYMThis is a very forceful looking slice backhand. You could almost dictate points with a slice backhand like this. Not bad at all.

Fed and Novak's slice backhands looks different, but mostly because they're hitting balls of different heights. On higher slice, I keep the racket head more square, driving it more, but the lower it gets, the more I carve under it.

Mansewerz
03-30-2008, 02:10 PM
Your pizza tray (kind of a weird name for it) is what Ken Rosewall uses and he had a very good backhand.

http://www.operationdoubles.com/rosewall_backhand-a.gifhttp://www.operationdoubles.com/rosewall_backhand-b.gifhttp://www.operationdoubles.com/rosewall_backhand-c.gif

http://www.operationdoubles.com/rosewall_backhand2.gif

This a viable way to hit this shot. The key to this shot is the rotation of the forearm. You must supinate your forearm so that the racquet face can come level. Also notice the flatter racquet path and extension through the ball. Also, notice his weight transfer over the front leg. His shoulders remain perpendicular to the baseline and his feet go into recovery pretty quickly while having exceptional balance.

If you want to hit it the other way like Federer, then you need to sort of lock the forearm. From there you need to raise and lower the racquet from the shoulder. A long "L position should be maintained for most of the forward swing into followthrough.

Your weight should be transferred over your front leg and you should be balanced. I have talked about a drill before that you can look up to help you with your weight transfer and balance.

A way to control racquet movement in your hand (which sometimes can droop the racquet head under the ball too much), is to make sure the handle is sort of pushed up into the V of your hand between your index finger and thumb.

What do you mean by supinate and pronate?

Also, I have the same problem. I think you mentioned once a drill where I should hit the ball and stop after contact and balance on my front foot for 5 seconds. And did you mean balance on it with my other foot off the ground?

aimr75
03-30-2008, 05:35 PM
using a continental grip, i find it quite hard to keep the face more square to the ball with the slice.. its just the angle the racquet comes toward the ball with the way im attempting a slice. at times i either frame it or float it.. i feel like the wrist needs to be rotated a bit to get it to this angle, which doesnt seem natural.. could this be due to an incorrect take back, which leads to the face being naturally too open on the follow through?
________
Ryoko Tani (http://www.toyota-wiki.com/wiki/Ryoko_Tani)

Kokopelli
03-31-2008, 06:29 AM
Am I correct in my observations?

1) With the pizza-tray slice, you need to hit more in front than the federer-slice

2) The federer-slice is more affective on high ball than the pizza-tray slice.

That Maria Gassanova has an amazing slice!