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Petekbladetour1
03-30-2008, 01:38 PM
I am new here. From what i have read wilson´s quality control is bad. I like Wilson rackets and i wonder if this is true?:-|

Bundey
03-30-2008, 01:47 PM
Yes it is true. Sometimes they aren't even the same length.

Petekbladetour1
03-30-2008, 02:03 PM
Really? Then why does Djockovic and Federer use them?

jlan
03-30-2008, 02:07 PM
^^Like Wilson will let Fed and Nole use the retail versions of the racquets.

Cmon now. It's been said over and over again that pros have their racquets customized and PJ'd.

Petekbladetour1
03-30-2008, 02:10 PM
Are you guys really sure?
maybe it is that you dont like wilson rackets?

PackardDell
03-30-2008, 02:33 PM
Really? Then why does Djockovic and Federer use them?

The sticks wilson gives them gets super-extra QC of course. Out of 1000 sticks they pick the 10 witch matches best.

jjordache
03-30-2008, 02:41 PM
I am new here. From what i have read wilson´s quality control is bad. I like Wilson rackets and i wonder if this is true?:-|

Your thread inspired me to check my kblade tour :)
The length and balance point seem to match the specs... The balance point it's ~ 12.5in from the butt end, making it about 8pts head light.
But the shocker is the weight... 350gr strung, with overgrip and dampener ! That's ~ 12.3oz compared to the spec's 11.8oz :|

How about your's ?

ollinger
03-30-2008, 02:55 PM
I've had terrible experiences with Wilson frames varying from spec weight. And it seems like the OP is a little testy when he gets responses he doesn't want to hear?

Bubba
03-30-2008, 02:59 PM
I am new here. From what i have read wilson´s quality control is bad. I like Wilson rackets and i wonder if this is true?:-|

Wilson Quality Control is an Oxymoron... Kinda like Military Intelligence.
(And before you say it... I played Wilson for years... and was in the 82nd Airborne Division... so I think I safe to say both)

Bubba
03-30-2008, 03:00 PM
Your thread inspired me to check my kblade tour :)
The length and balance point seem to match the specs... The balance point it's ~ 12.5in from the butt end, making it about 8pts head light.
But the shocker is the weight... 350gr strung, with overgrip and dampener ! That's ~ 12.3oz compared to the spec's 11.8oz :|

How about your's ?

Wilson weight varies greatly... each of my K90 were at least 8-14g over spec weight.

Bubba
03-30-2008, 03:02 PM
The sticks wilson gives them gets super-extra QC of course. Out of 1000 sticks they pick the 10 witch matches best.

Sponsored Tour Players don't use the same mfg. lots available to the public... there run special and those specs are driven at very high tolerances.

bertrevert
03-30-2008, 03:39 PM
But the shocker is the weight... 350gr strung, with overgrip and dampener ! That's ~ 12.3oz compared to the spec's 11.8oz

Wilson website (AUS) lists the KB Tour strung weight as 12oz (not TW spec) so if that's what they say themselves then they're not that far out (you have an additional dampener as well), go to:

http://www.wilson.com/wilson/racquet/products.jsp?CONTENT%3C%3Ecnt_id=10134198673997430&FOLDER%3C%3Efolder_id=9852723697226707&bmUID=1206919704756&bmLocale=en_AU

supermario343
03-30-2008, 03:43 PM
what if your racquet is messed up like mine? lol...check my threat titled "Wilson Tour 90 Help!" : (

racquet_jedi
03-30-2008, 04:00 PM
I am new here. From what i have read wilson´s quality control is bad. I like Wilson rackets and i wonder if this is true?:-|

It is true...

When my two "identical" racquets first came to me, the balances were off, they did not match...

Do not get any of us wrong, as great as the quality of Wilson racquets are, they do purposely make racquets that have specifications that are different from what is printed on the racquet; they do this apparently so that it's easier for them to mass produce all of their racquets...

It's also because us "normal folk" aren't as special as the pros, who get their racquets customized to their liking...:wink:

Example, my racquet is listed as 2 points headlight on their website, but 4 points headlight on TW...

Tennis Warehouse takes somewhere around 5 racquets (from what I've heard), then averages all of the specs together for their specs listed on their website...

When I got my two racquets that were the same model, one of them was not head-light, it was head-heavy...

NoBadMojo
03-30-2008, 04:11 PM
Inferior manufacturing often becomes most exposed when producing racquets that are close to even balance.....There is only one precise point where the racquet is evenly balanced.....so a racquet a company sez should be 2 pts headlight, could easily end up 2 pts head heavy and not swing at all as intended.....people keep complaining about the poor quality of Wilson as they keep plunking down their hard earned money to buy Wilson racquets..it becomes even worse for those who carry multiple racquets as it is hard to buy racquets from Wilson that are acceptably matched

nickarnold2000
03-30-2008, 08:01 PM
I always buy rackets 3 at a time and the sloppy quality control really becomes evident at this point. Yonex is great thou; using a post office scale my 3 RDS001 90s are all within a gram of each other - 2 were identical in weight and one was a gram heavier. If you think Wilson has bad quality control(as I do) then don't buy their products!

BreakPoint
03-30-2008, 08:19 PM
Really? Then why does Djockovic and Federer use them?
They don't care about the quality control because they get their frames customized and matched for all the specs anyway. Besides, they get as many frames as they need for free.

Then, of course, it's also about the $$$$$$$$$.

chiru
03-30-2008, 08:36 PM
Inferior manufacturing often becomes most exposed when producing racquets that are close to even balance.....There is only one precise point where the racquet is evenly balanced.....so a racquet a company sez should be 2 pts headlight, could easily end up 2 pts head heavy and not swing at all as intended.....people keep complaining about the poor quality of Wilson as they keep plunking down their hard earned money to buy Wilson racquets..it becomes even worse for those who carry multiple racquets as it is hard to buy racquets from Wilson that are acceptably matched

Yah seriously. I have 3 prostaff 85's. I bought one of them seperate adn then when i decided to buy the other two, I had TW find 2 that are as close to matched spec as possible. TW did an amazing job, and those 2 frames are very closely matched, but the other one def feels different, a little lighter, a little lower SW no question.

Petekbladetour1
03-31-2008, 12:28 AM
I bought 3 Prince speedport a few months ago, and i have figured that prince has bad quality control. The first racket was 322g, second one was 327, and the third one was 318g. The strungweight on all of them is supposed to be 320g. And also none of them are the same size. I have been using these rackets since the beginning of january and have not felt any difference betwen those rackets. Wilson cant be any worse than Prince. Can they?

Salsa_Lover
03-31-2008, 12:49 AM
When I read this I can't honestly believe that you can really tell the 2 or 5 gr. difference.

If the racket is supposed to be HL and it is HH then for sure you'll notice.

But a little grams difference in overall weight is not noticiable IMHO, as you adapt yourself to the weight once you get your hitting rythm going on.

origmarm
03-31-2008, 01:05 AM
The worst problem I have with Wilsons by far was the balance. I sent about 6 PSC6.1s back to the shop after buying and checking them. Eventually I got 8 or so (over time) the same (roughly) but it took about 30-40 racquets from different sources. The weight difference doesn't bother me so much, the balance does.

Petekbladetour1
03-31-2008, 01:25 AM
I really dont believe that Wilson would make the same rackets with different balance. What i think is that you guys dont like Wilson.

0d1n
03-31-2008, 01:38 AM
When I read this I can't honestly believe that you can really tell the 2 or 5 gr. difference.

If the racket is supposed to be HL and it is HH then for sure you'll notice.

But a little grams difference in overall weight is not noticiable IMHO, as you adapt yourself to the weight once you get your hitting rythm going on.

If the weight is evenly distributed one might not notice 2 grams of weight. However if the difference is all above the balance point (i.e ...in the head) 2 grams can make a difference in balance and an even bigger difference in swing weight.
5 grams can be a lot and I notice them regardless (unless it's ALL in the handle, and the swing weights/balance of the rackets are somehow identical despite the weight difference).

I really dont believe that Wilson would make the same rackets with different balance. What i think is that you guys dont like Wilson.

I really don't believe you should start a thread to debate a point if you don't want to hear answers you don't like.
My experience with Wilson's quality control is just as bad as anybody else's. If you buy one racket and that's it ... then it doesn't really matter. If you buy 2-5 of them, then it DOES matter.
Personally ... I just stopped using them, because I can't be bothered spending countless hours to match my VERY DIFFERENT so called "identical" sticks.
Also...if the weight difference is bellow spec...it's easier to "get it right" but many times the weight difference is ABOVE spec, in which case further customizing can make those sticks swing way heavier than I want them to. As a result ... I've have gone with other manufacturers since I don't have the time and/or don't feel like ALWAYS having to match my rackets when they are supposed to be pretty closely matched when "stock".

origmarm
03-31-2008, 01:43 AM
I really dont believe that Wilson would make the same rackets with different balance. What i think is that you guys dont like Wilson.

Mate I LOVE Wilson, I played with nothing other than Wilson for 20+yrs. The PSC6.1 for me is STILL probably one of the best racquets ever made. They have always had a quality control problem from the moment they starting producting graphite racquets. Despite this I still think they make some of the best sticks, period.

They have a Pro room at Wilson that firmly acknowledges this and spends a lot of time and money customising racquets for their higher rated pros and just simply matching them (i.e. frame selecting from production runs) for the lower sponsored players. Their contention (and they are right) is that for the majority of recreational players this doesn't really matter as they will simply buy one racquet and play with it. I would hazard a guess that TW can confirm that the tolerance on Wilson racquet production runs is 2pts either way on the balance. It's a problem that is well documented on these boards also, just do a search and I reckon you'll get at least 40 threads. If you have some Wilsons, take the test and measure them, see what you get

Edit: It is however true that for most racquet companies (Yonex and Fischer notably excluded) that this is the case. Wilson is just the worst, probably because they make the most racquets

Rabbit
03-31-2008, 04:31 AM
When I read this I can't honestly believe that you can really tell the 2 or 5 gr. difference.

If the racket is supposed to be HL and it is HH then for sure you'll notice.

But a little grams difference in overall weight is not noticiable IMHO, as you adapt yourself to the weight once you get your hitting rythm going on.

I agree with this 100%. We've really gotten spoiled when 5 grams or less difference in frames becomes an issue. I'd bet that when Laver won his Grand Slam in '69, the Maxplys he played with weren't matched and balanced identically. There was probably some variance. I think we, and I mean we, overthink our gear. The pros have matched rackets because the manufacturers or racket technicians can do it easily with the graphite of today. But, truth be told, a couple of grams here and a couple of grams there and a balance point or two wouldn't cost a top pro a tournament.

DJG
03-31-2008, 04:57 AM
Spoilt indeed. However, it all comes down to what you expect - if you know that the QC on your sticks are bad and for others the same sticks are matched, it will play on you mentally in the game.

In the Laver ear there was probably not much they could do about it, so they learnt to live with it. It is like playing in the wind - for some it is a bigger issue than for others.

PS: As an aside, does anybody have a link to that article on the Wilson Pro shop?

PPS: anybody who still believes that pros are using off-the-shelf racquet s (i.e. Tsonga and Djoko playing with the K-Blade, or Blake playing with a 200, or ...) or that all racquets are 100% the same of the manufacturing line are living in a dreamworld :)

origmarm
03-31-2008, 05:30 AM
PS: As an aside, does anybody have a link to that article on the Wilson Pro shop?

Irritatingly I can't find that one I read before that was better but here is one that Greg Raven wrote:

http://www.racquetsportsindustry.com/issues/200407/200407wilson_proroom.html

There is one where they have an interview where the guy discusses manufacturing tolerances. Typically from memory these are 15g on the weight, and 2pts on the balance from mid (or spec). Swingweight is not tracked.

pmerk34
03-31-2008, 06:05 AM
I agree with this 100%. We've really gotten spoiled when 5 grams or less difference in frames becomes an issue. I'd bet that when Laver won his Grand Slam in '69, the Maxplys he played with weren't matched and balanced identically. There was probably some variance. I think we, and I mean we, overthink our gear. The pros have matched rackets because the manufacturers or racket technicians can do it easily with the graphite of today. But, truth be told, a couple of grams here and a couple of grams there and a balance point or two wouldn't cost a top pro a tournament.


And is sure as heck isn't going to cost anyone posting on these boards a match.

VGP
03-31-2008, 06:32 AM
I can feel a 2-3 gram difference in weight, even when my rackets are balance matched.

It doesn't stop me from using them. I notice it when I switch frames, but after a few hits I get over it.

origmarm
03-31-2008, 06:32 AM
And is sure as heck isn't going to cost anyone posting on these boards a match.

I think most get over it no problem. It's more the mental aspect I think that really messes with some people

pmerk34
03-31-2008, 06:48 AM
I think most get over it no problem. It's more the mental aspect I think that really messes with some people
I can understand it affecting players who play as near to perfection as say Pete Sampras did.

IanRichardson
03-31-2008, 08:03 AM
did anyone else think that this thread was a joke for a second after the OP started saying we just dont like wilson?

So the premise of this thread was "i hear wilson has bad quality control"

and when people tell him if it is true, he doesnt want that to be the case, so those who posted are just wilson haters

awesome

me personally I can tell when too much stencil ink is applied, if my grip is on too tight, or if there is a spec of dust on my vibe damp... NOT, if you are seriously weighing your racquets you need to spend more time on court and less time with your scale. As others have said, it is mostly a mental thing if something is 5 grams off. So, if you dont know what the weight on your racquet is, it wont be in your head :).

origmarm
03-31-2008, 08:14 AM
I can understand it affecting players who play as near to perfection as say Pete Sampras did.

Yeah for sure it's mostly mental. I think you can feel a difference though if its balance related. If you put 5g of lead at 12 O'Clock on most racquets I think you could tell. The question is, would it really matter? Probably not

origmarm
03-31-2008, 08:15 AM
did anyone else think that this thread was a joke for a second after the OP started saying we just dont like wilson?

So the premise of this thread was "i hear wilson has bad quality control"

and when people tell him if it is true, he doesnt want that to be the case, so those who posted are just wilson haters

awesome

I was starting to think this also...

awesome is the word

pmerk34
03-31-2008, 08:17 AM
Yeah for sure it's mostly mental. I think you can feel a difference though if its balance related. If you put 5g of lead at 12 O'Clock on most racquets I think you could tell. The question is, would it really matter? Probably not

It matters to the top level players on this earth none of which reside on this board unless Roddick and co. have snuck a few posts in!

0d1n
03-31-2008, 08:50 AM
5 Grams or more @ 12 (or wherever else in the head) DOES matter regardless if you're a pro or not.
It matters when you're playing with "the heaviest racket you can handle" as it is recommended by "the true scholars of TW and elsewhere".
Seriously ... if you're using a racket that's placed @ the upper limit of what you can handle in weight and swing weight (which isn't necessarily a bad thing to do ....) and you get another racket of the same model but that one has 5 grams more in the head ... YOU WILL FEEL IT, because you will probably be late on many more balls than you were before. It's not just the added 5 grams...but the added inertia (SW) which can be significant !
Anyway ... let's assume for a moment that 5-10-15 grams are not significant for us "mere mortals". If there is an option to get closely matched sticks with other manufacturers....and paying the same or less, why would one want to settle for "second best"?? (or in the case of Wilson...3rd or 4th best...or maybe further down ;) )

pmerk34
03-31-2008, 08:57 AM
5 Grams or more @ 12 (or wherever else in the head) DOES matter regardless if you're a pro or not.
It matters when you're playing with "the heaviest racket you can handle" as it is recommended by "the true scholars of TW and elsewhere".
Seriously ... if you're using a racket that's placed @ the upper limit of what you can handle in weight and swing weight (which isn't necessarily a bad thing to do ....) and you get another racket of the same model but that one has 5 grams more in the head ... YOU WILL FEEL IT, because you will probably be late on many more balls than you were before. It's not just the added 5 grams...but the added inertia (SW) which can be significant !
Anyway ... let's assume for a moment that 5-10-15 grams are not significant for us "mere mortals". If there is an option to get closely matched sticks with other manufacturers....and paying the same or less, why would one want to settle for "second best"?? (or in the case of Wilson...3rd or 4th best...or maybe further down ;) )
I don't have the answer and I don't work for Wilson or care one or the other but they are number one in tennis racquet sales by a country mile so plenty of people enjoy ther products.

sureshs
03-31-2008, 09:15 AM
Just get TW to match it up for you. Or else go to a shop with lots of stock and measure them yourself, like I do.

For fun, last week I tested the only two KBlade Tour 93 sticks in grip size 4 that were in stock at my pro shop, and lo and behold, the weight and balance were exactly the same and seemed to match the advertised specs too.

Maybe they have improved their QC recently.

Alexio92
03-31-2008, 09:24 AM
I really dont believe that Wilson would make the same rackets with different balance. What i think is that you guys dont like Wilson.

Go out and check yourself then. Thats all I will say.

racquet_jedi
03-31-2008, 09:24 AM
I bought 3 Prince speedport a few months ago, and i have figured that prince has bad quality control. The first racket was 322g, second one was 327, and the third one was 318g. The strungweight on all of them is supposed to be 320g. And also none of them are the same size. I have been using these rackets since the beginning of january and have not felt any difference betwen those rackets. Wilson cant be any worse than Prince. Can they?

Go ahead and find out for yourself if you want a definitive answer to your question, get ahold of 3-6 frames of the same model and weigh them like you did with your speedports...

Although, you may get luckier than the rest of us...:wink:

racquet_jedi
03-31-2008, 09:28 AM
I really dont believe that Wilson would make the same rackets with different balance. What i think is that you guys dont like Wilson.

I'm here talking about Wilson's quality control and how (in comparison to a company with better standards like Yonex) poor it is, but hey, I like Wilson, they do make good racquets...

Like other people said, it's not going to matter if you only have and use one racquet, that's because you won't be noticing that it's different from other racquets of the same model...

Salsa_Lover
03-31-2008, 12:46 PM
Yes, I think we have to distinguish about 2 things here.

One is quality control, in the sense that Wilson puts out quality products.

Another is Exact specifications match, like as precission measurements.

Those are 2 different things.

2 rackets with 5 gr difference are both high quality products.

Now if you are looking for matching rackets this is not the same criteria.

Alexio92
03-31-2008, 12:57 PM
What I don't get is how can Wilson make quality racquets when they make the "Same" racquets which are meant to be quality different. They can't all by quality surely, as if you were half decent player you could tell the difference in spec.

joeellis
03-31-2008, 01:27 PM
I have read all the replys to this thread and have seen a lot of disagreement on how close racquets of the same kind vary in weight and balance. I have recently started playing tennis after giving it up for many years. I tried many newer models to try and determine what I liked best, and once I tried the Wilson K 6.1 Tour 90, my search was over. I just loved the feel and weight. It reminded more of the wooden racquets I played with back in the day than anything else I tried. I have noticed on other threads that this racquet was either loved or despised for a number of reasons. There was very few sitting on the fence.

I posted a reply on another thread and the originator wanted to know the specs for the 3 Tour 90's I have purchased. I checked the weight of each and the balance point of each. Before I give my numbers, I would like to add that these racquets were purchased on three different occasions. The first I purchased at a local (but national internet), large retailer. This racquet is strung with Babalot VS. The 2nd & 3rd, I ordered from the club I belong to, but they were ordered about a month apart. These 2 are strung in the mains with Big Banger ALU Power Rough and in the crosses with Wilson NXT Tour. I can tell these 2 apart because #2 has chipped paint on the head where it was clamped too tightly in the stringer. All 3 have a Babalot overwrap on the grip. I knew while swinging and playing with them, that they felt pretty close, so I wasn't suprised by my findings. I checked the balcnce point myself and had them weighed at the Post Office. Below is what I found:

#1 - (balance)12 3/8", (weight)12.9 ounces
#2 - (balance)12 3/8", (weight)12.8 ounces
#3 - (balance)12 3/8", (weight)12.7 ounces

The weight is 2.8 grams difference between #1 & #2 and 5.6 grams between #1 and #3.

Tennis Warehouse gives the strung weight at 12.5 ounces and the balance at 9 points head light. I'd say Wilson did a pretty good job making these pretty consistent. Because of purchasing all 3 on different dates, I would guess they were not all made at the same time. Anything mass produced product has quality issues and I have no way of knowing, but Wilson may have a tighter inspection on certain racquets.

I am in no way saying the naysayers haven't had the quality problems they complain about, I just know my 3 are pretty close to what they should be.

Petekbladetour1
03-31-2008, 01:41 PM
I posted a reply on another thread and the originator wanted to know the specs for the 3 Tour 90's I have purchased. I checked the weight of each and the balance point of each. Before I give my numbers, I would like to add that these racquets were purchased on three different occasions. The first I purchased at a local (but national internet), large retailer. This racquet is strung with Babalot VS. The 2nd & 3rd, I ordered from the club I belong to, but they were ordered about a month apart. These 2 are strung in the mains with Big Banger ALU Power Rough and in the crosses with Wilson NXT Tour. I can tell these 2 apart because #2 has chipped paint on the head where it was clamped too tightly in the stringer. All 3 have a Babalot overwrap on the grip. I knew while swinging and playing with them, that they felt pretty close, so I wasn't suprised by my findings. I checked the balcnce point myself and had them weighed at the Post Office. Below is what I found:

#1 - (balance)12 3/8", (weight)12.9 ounces
#2 - (balance)12 3/8", (weight)12.8 ounces
#3 - (balance)12 3/8", (weight)12.7 ounces

The weight is 2.8 grams difference between #1 & #2 and 5.6 grams between #1 and #3.

Tennis Warehouse gives the strung weight at 12.5 ounces and the balance at 9 points head light. I'd say Wilson did a pretty good job making these pretty consistent. Because of purchasing all 3 on different dates, I would guess they were not all made at the same time. Anything mass produced product has quality issues and I have no way of knowing, but Wilson may have a tighter inspection on certain racquets.

complain about, I just know my 3 are pretty close to what they should be.

So maybe Wilson has a good quality controll after all? :D

Alexio92
03-31-2008, 01:45 PM
So maybe Wilson has a good quality controll after all? :D

Except it doesn't and can you just admit it and stop going on about it! Grr

Petekbladetour1
03-31-2008, 01:49 PM
I have ordered 2 kblade tour rackets today, and they will arrive tommorow. I will let you guys know how much they weigh, tommorow.

racquet_jedi
03-31-2008, 05:37 PM
I have ordered 2 kblade tour rackets today, and they will arrive tommorow. I will let you guys know how much they weigh, tommorow.

If all three of your racquets are fairly close, remember, this does not represent Wilson's overall quality control, getting two from the same batch will probably increase your chances of them being reasonably consistent in specifications...

People have had different experiences with Wilson, some will get racquets that are way off of the specs printed and others will have better results...

I remember somewhere that J011y said that the biggest mass difference between all 10-12 of his K90's was about 15 grams, this was between his lightest one and his heaviest one...

origmarm
03-31-2008, 11:29 PM
People have had different experiences with Wilson, some will get racquets that are way off of the specs printed and others will have better results...

I think this is it at the end of the day. Some will get lucky, some won't. It's worth bearing in mind that whilst Wilson's QC is not great it's still good. It's just not great compared to other racquet manufacturers. I reckon it's just a problem of scale, the simply make so many that the odd bad batch is inevitable.

0d1n
03-31-2008, 11:49 PM
5 Grams or more @ 12 (or wherever else in the head) DOES matter regardless if you're a pro or not.
It matters when you're playing with "the heaviest racket you can handle" as it is recommended by "the true scholars of TW and elsewhere".
Seriously ... if you're using a racket that's placed @ the upper limit of what you can handle in weight and swing weight (which isn't necessarily a bad thing to do ....) and you get another racket of the same model but that one has 5 grams more in the head ... YOU WILL FEEL IT, because you will probably be late on many more balls than you were before. It's not just the added 5 grams...but the added inertia (SW) which can be significant !
Anyway ... let's assume for a moment that 5-10-15 grams are not significant for us "mere mortals". If there is an option to get closely matched sticks with other manufacturers....and paying the same or less, why would one want to settle for "second best"?? (or in the case of Wilson...3rd or 4th best...or maybe further down ;) )

I don't have the answer and I don't work for Wilson or care one or the other but they are number one in tennis racquet sales by a country mile so plenty of people enjoy ther products.

They are number one in tennis racket sales...and that's fine by me, but please don't tell me you think that any popular product is also a good quality one. Maybe my example isn't the most representative but if you buy a "best seller" book, it's usually the opposite (meaning the book is absolute cr/\p).
Also...99 percent of those "plenty" of people you are talking about are the ones that buy ONE racket and hence are not really affected by the quality control side (except maybe the quality of the paint :P).
Anyway, I never said Wilson doesn't make good rackets...because they do. The problem for the serious player is that if they don't have access to some type of "matching service" (from TW or some pro shop), buying multiple Wilson rackets is a lottery (as it is with other brands ...probably ... but in my experience Wilson is the leader in this "bad quality control" category as well...not only in racket sales).
Many of those 99 percent of the people I was talking about that buy Wilson, do it because they don't know better (i.e they never heard of TF, Fischer or Pro Kennex for example)...and since they are playing tennis 5 times in one year ... it really doesn't matter what rackets they buy. They are the kind of people that answer the question "what type of racket did you buy" with ..."oh, it's a Wilson racket".
My 2 pence

AlpineCadet
03-31-2008, 11:52 PM
I have read all the replys to this thread and have seen a lot of disagreement on how close racquets of the same kind vary in weight and balance. I have recently started playing tennis after giving it up for many years. I tried many newer models to try and determine what I liked best, and once I tried the Wilson K 6.1 Tour 90, my search was over. I just loved the feel and weight. It reminded more of the wooden racquets I played with back in the day than anything else I tried. I have noticed on other threads that this racquet was either loved or despised for a number of reasons. There was very few sitting on the fence.

I posted a reply on another thread and the originator wanted to know the specs for the 3 Tour 90's I have purchased. I checked the weight of each and the balance point of each. Before I give my numbers, I would like to add that these racquets were purchased on three different occasions. The first I purchased at a local (but national internet), large retailer. This racquet is strung with Babalot VS. The 2nd & 3rd, I ordered from the club I belong to, but they were ordered about a month apart. These 2 are strung in the mains with Big Banger ALU Power Rough and in the crosses with Wilson NXT Tour. I can tell these 2 apart because #2 has chipped paint on the head where it was clamped too tightly in the stringer. All 3 have a Babalot overwrap on the grip. I knew while swinging and playing with them, that they felt pretty close, so I wasn't suprised by my findings. I checked the balcnce point myself and had them weighed at the Post Office. Below is what I found:

#1 - (balance)12 3/8", (weight)12.9 ounces
#2 - (balance)12 3/8", (weight)12.8 ounces
#3 - (balance)12 3/8", (weight)12.7 ounces

The weight is 2.8 grams difference between #1 & #2 and 5.6 grams between #1 and #3.

Tennis Warehouse gives the strung weight at 12.5 ounces and the balance at 9 points head light. I'd say Wilson did a pretty good job making these pretty consistent. Because of purchasing all 3 on different dates, I would guess they were not all made at the same time. Anything mass produced product has quality issues and I have no way of knowing, but Wilson may have a tighter inspection on certain racquets.

I am in no way saying the naysayers haven't had the quality problems they complain about, I just know my 3 are pretty close to what they should be.

I'm gonna have to call BS. My Wilson frames have NEVER matched TW specs strung with synthetic gut. I've owned at least 5 different Wilson frames and have measured and balanced all of them. The biggest difference from spec was over 15 grams in the k90, and 10 grams with the nBlade. I even measured over ~50 k90's and NONE of them were at 340 grams unstrung.

J011yroger
04-01-2008, 01:37 AM
The problem for the serious player is that if they don't have access to some type of "matching service" (from TW or some pro shop), buying multiple Wilson rackets is a lottery.

Everyone has access to a matching service, it just depends on if they are willing to pay what it costs, esp if you are in a different country, the shipping would get ya.

J

0d1n
04-01-2008, 02:41 AM
Everyone has access to a matching service, it just depends on if they are willing to pay what it costs, esp if you are in a different country, the shipping would get ya.

J

It's not the shipping I have problems with, that's a service and should be payed for. It's the taxes (for us ... "rest of world") if we buy from the US.
As a result I buy stuff from TW when I'm down there, or through friends that travel there for business ... or simply buy from Germany (prices are better than here ... and the shipping is free for anything over 200 euros + no taxes since they are also in the EU). However, the German shops I saw don't offer any kind of matching service ... so ... you see ... not everybody has that access :P (not without selling their car to buy 5 rackets).

joeellis
04-01-2008, 03:38 AM
I'm gonna have to call BS. My Wilson frames have NEVER matched TW specs strung with synthetic gut. I've owned at least 5 different Wilson frames and have measured and balanced all of them. The biggest difference from spec was over 15 grams in the k90, and 10 grams with the nBlade. I even measured over ~50 k90's and NONE of them were at 340 grams unstrung.

AlpineCadet,

Again, I am not trying to say people on this thread haven't had quality issues with Wilson, but the numbers I listed are accurate. When I measured the balance point, I wasn't even sure what the formula was to determine if a racquet is head heavy or light. Another subscriber on a different thread explained this to me and it happened that my racquets are 9 pts. HL just as they are spec'd. I guess I am very lucky, especially since all 3 racquets weren't from the same batch.

Maintaining accuracy of mass produced products must be very difficult and I'm sure the more items that are produced make this even more difficult. I once ordered a set of Ping irons and I had a friend check loft and lie angles of each. Everyone was off according to specs and Ping claims to have the tightest QA standards in the golf industry.

I am very happy with my Wilson racquets and they are serving me very well. I am a fairly descent athlete, who has played some type of sport most of my life and I just can't feel a 3 to 5 gram difference in overall weight. Some people say they can, but I can't.

Salsa_Lover
04-01-2008, 03:45 AM
joellis,

This is exactly my point. I think is just excesive pickiness.

Look... my own weight varies from day to day and my fitness level with it.

Also my strenght and fitness level varies during the tennis match.

So I just tell you. 5 or even 10 grams will no make any difference in my game. and most likely I wouldn't notice it.

I have 2 identical Trek 5200 carbon bikes... and they don't feel the same.

Greg Raven
04-01-2008, 05:10 AM
I am new here. From what i have read wilson´s quality control is bad. I like Wilson rackets and i wonder if this is true?:-|

I have five K Six.One Tour 90s. I got one originally, then another one, then the final three. All five racquets were very close in measurements when I got them. Each was 27 inches in length, the mass differences were within a couple of grams, and the swingweights were almost identical. Balance points were close enough not to worry about.

Greg Raven
04-01-2008, 05:34 AM
I'm gonna have to call BS. [...] I even measured over ~50 k90's and NONE of them were at 340 grams unstrung.

I dug up the measurements I took for my last three K Six.One Tour 90s, which I took using a Prince PTC, when I received the racquets. That is, these are unstrung racquets without the retail information card inside the hoop. If you added string you'd be ready to play.

#1 338 grams, 31.00 cm balance, 298 swingweight
#2 338 grams, 31.25 cm balance, 302 swingweight
#3 338 grams, 30.80 cm balance, 296 swingweight

Wilson's quality control seems plenty good to me.

pmerk34
04-01-2008, 06:11 AM
I dug up the measurements I took for my last three K Six.One Tour 90s, which I took using a Prince PTC, when I received the racquets. That is, these are unstrung racquets without the retail information card inside the hoop. If you added string you'd be ready to play.

#1 338 grams, 31.00 cm balance, 298 swingweight
#2 338 grams, 31.25 cm balance, 302 swingweight
#3 338 grams, 30.80 cm balance, 296 swingweight

Wilson's quality control seems plenty good to me.

WHAT THE ?!?!?!? LOOK AT THOSE MASSIVE DICREPANCIES HOW COULD ANYONE TOLERATE THIS!!!!! WHY IS WILSON EVEN IN BUSINESS????

Petekbladetour1
04-01-2008, 12:11 PM
I

#1 338 grams, 31.00 cm balance, 298 swingweight
#2 338 grams, 31.25 cm balance, 302 swingweight
#3 338 grams, 30.80 cm balance, 296 swingweight

Wilson's quality control seems plenty good to me.

So wilsons quality control is good after all. :D :D :D

racquet_jedi
04-01-2008, 12:46 PM
So wilsons quality control is good after all. :D :D :D

For him, yes...

For the rest of us...That's another story...

For you, that will also be something different...

Alexio92
04-01-2008, 12:48 PM
So wilsons quality control is good after all. :D :D :D

Shut up!!!!!!!!! For goodness sake you're getting on my nerves so much. Wilson = Crap Quality control stop living in denial and just let this thread go. :evil:

AlpineCadet
04-01-2008, 12:54 PM
Shut up!!!!!!!!! For goodness sake you're getting on my nerves so much. Wilson = Crap Quality control stop living in denial and just let this thread go. :evil:
It seems some TW users support Wilson's good "quality" control, some for personal reasons and others for professional reasons. From my experiences at a tennis shop, they've repeatedly been horrible in keeping their frames on spec with their respective printed labels. A majority of us have had issues with this, and a minority of us apparently do not.

autumn_leaf
04-01-2008, 01:14 PM
balance is the only thing that you'll really notice. a human being usually only notices ~10% change in weight.

as for the OP you seem to be in denial about something. there has been enough individual posts and testimonies to bad qc by wilson and other big companies. you'll also here various people complimenting companies like yonex, volkl, and fischer with their racquets since they keep it as close to the listed specs as possible.

DJG
04-01-2008, 01:22 PM
xxxxkbladetour1... with a name like that, Wilson obviously will never be able to do anything wrong. Just ignore it, with some experience under the belt he/she/it will come along.

For the record: great sticks, horrible QC. My brother has a bunch (5 x K61 95's) and between the heaviest/lightest the difference is around 14g. Don't know about the (starting) balance though. They've been leaded-up to match and comply with his preferences, so it is a bit too late to check that.

kungfusmkim
04-01-2008, 01:29 PM
How about yonex's quality control is it any better then wilsons?

Alexio92
04-01-2008, 01:42 PM
xxxxkbladetour1... with a name like that, Wilson obviously will never be able to do anything wrong. Just ignore it, with some experience under the belt he/she/it will come along.

For the record: great sticks, horrible QC. My brother has a bunch (5 x K61 95's) and between the heaviest/lightest the difference is around 14g. Don't know about the (starting) balance though. They've been leaded-up to match and comply with his preferences, so it is a bit too late to check that.

So maybe Wilson has crap quality control after all??? :D:D:D

DJG
04-01-2008, 02:09 PM
I think it is quite difficult to get 100% matched-up specs, even in the same batch. Just looking at the fact that they are using graphite (carbon fibre material + resin) and the way things are manufactured. It is weird things don't deviate more. :)

Then again, I'm no expert, although I've done CF lay-ups before I'm not 100% sure about the way they do it with mass-produced racquets.

Petekbladetour1
04-01-2008, 11:24 PM
I am getting two more Kblade rackets today and i will let you know what the specs are on those rackets.

0d1n
04-02-2008, 01:00 AM
balance is the only thing that you'll really notice. a human being usually only notices ~10% change in weight.

as for the OP you seem to be in denial about something. there has been enough individual posts and testimonies to bad qc by wilson and other big companies. you'll also here various people complimenting companies like yonex, volkl, and fischer with their racquets since they keep it as close to the listed specs as possible.

I'm sorry, but that's just not true (for most players I know). 10 percent of 300 grams (let's use that nice round number as an average weight) is 30 grams. I you only notice 30 grams or more difference between two rackets you need to play tennis more often...because 20 grams is a HUGE difference, and 15 grams a PRETTY BIG one when it comes to tennis rackets. Anything under 10 is probably acceptable to most people IF the swing weights are close. For people who play often and are sensitive to this kind of thing ... you probably need less than 5 grams difference and very close swing weights/balance in order to be able to switch rackets without missing a step in the 3rd set tiebreak if the strings break.
But as "they" say..."to each his own".

kalic
04-02-2008, 03:38 AM
They spend much more money on comercials, and this is, unfortunatly, more important then quality (for company). Same thing for every major brand, but Wilson is good example... The worst thing is if flex rating is different, you can't customize that...

paperduetoday
04-02-2008, 09:41 AM
I would say they are the worst 3 in quality control. Throughout the 90's, I couldn't get
ONE
Wilson Pro Staff Classic 6.1 to match 2gether.
I love there players frames but the quality control is why I hate there racquets. Since then switched to Head, Fischer, and Dunlop.

autumn_leaf
04-02-2008, 01:09 PM
I'm sorry, but that's just not true (for most players I know). 10 percent of 300 grams (let's use that nice round number as an average weight) is 30 grams. I you only notice 30 grams or more difference between two rackets you need to play tennis more often...because 20 grams is a HUGE difference, and 15 grams a PRETTY BIG one when it comes to tennis rackets. Anything under 10 is probably acceptable to most people IF the swing weights are close. For people who play often and are sensitive to this kind of thing ... you probably need less than 5 grams difference and very close swing weights/balance in order to be able to switch rackets without missing a step in the 3rd set tiebreak if the strings break.
But as "they" say..."to each his own".

if you don't know weber's law it's refers to static weight. when placed at an angle that weight will be more because of the balance. that is what i meant by balance/weight.

autumn_leaf
04-02-2008, 01:10 PM
How about yonex's quality control is it any better then wilsons?

i just bought two yonex rd ti50 off of the auction site. i'll let you know in a week or so.

frankyue50
04-02-2008, 08:35 PM
then do you bother come here and answer the question?

I really dont believe that Wilson would make the same rackets with different balance. What i think is that you guys dont like Wilson.

0d1n
04-02-2008, 11:38 PM
if you don't know weber's law it's refers to static weight. when placed at an angle that weight will be more because of the balance. that is what i meant by balance/weight.

Did Weber play tennis?? Also, I don't quite understand your point in the post above (care to detail??).
Weber's law "assumes" too much IMO...and it has little relevance to tennis, because there's a VAST difference between just holding a weight and quickly swinging it through the air trying to hit serves and backhands.

autumn_leaf
04-03-2008, 07:20 AM
Did Weber play tennis?? Also, I don't quite understand your point in the post above (care to detail??).
Weber's law "assumes" too much IMO...and it has little relevance to tennis, because there's a VAST difference between just holding a weight and quickly swinging it through the air trying to hit serves and backhands.

yes there is a difference between static and swingweight. i think you need to read my original post again. nowhere in it do i mention anyone noticing or not noticing swingweight change which i consider to have a lot more to do with swingweight.

i'll admit that my original post needed a bit more clarification. i only made a statement about static weight difference with the increase of the racquet weight. the balance statement i make is very much true and was the main statement i was making. i don't think you'll argue with this point, but i'll state it anyways with an example of a racquet weighing 12 oz. the balance statement comes into play if most of the weight is concentrated head heavy. the swingweight would be dramatically more with a 12 pt hh racquet than a 12pt hl racquet with the same static weight. so the hh racquet will feel dramatically heavier even though they still have the same static weight.

again i doubt you had a difference of opinion with the swingweight but thats what i meant when i said that a person will notice the balance more than just a pure increase of static weight. sorry for any confusion.

bigmatt
04-03-2008, 10:47 AM
I just strung two nTour 95 frames, and the differences in the specs make me wonder how anyone can switch between them:
#1 #2
Weight 292g 286g
Balance 35cm 34cm
Swingweight 316 297
The swingweight difference is enough to make one unplayable vs the other, as far as I'm concerned. I need to ask this guy how he used both of these (they're new, so maybe he hasn't put much time in on them).

origmarm
04-04-2008, 12:25 AM
I just strung two nTour 95 frames, and the differences in the specs make me wonder how anyone can switch between them:
#1 #2
Weight 292g 286g
Balance 35cm 34cm
Swingweight 316 297
The swingweight difference is enough to make one unplayable vs the other, as far as I'm concerned. I need to ask this guy how he used both of these (they're new, so maybe he hasn't put much time in on them).

This is more like what I've come across. The weight itself is not the problem, its the balance and hence the effect on swingweight that's the issue

autumn_leaf
04-11-2008, 09:55 AM
How about yonex's quality control is it any better then wilsons?

just got my two yonex's yesterday. they were ~3 grams off from each other. but were both less than the stated strung weight. but as far as identical racquets i would say it's pretty good.

leon505
04-11-2008, 10:17 AM
I've never really had a problem with wilson in terms of quality control. I order all my racquets directly from them and have never had any that have been mismatched. I have 3 k6.1 18x20's and they are all the same.

My experience with racquet manufacturers is that balance fine specs will deviate from racquet to racquet regardless of which manufacturer makes them. I still find that wilson makes some of the best sticks on the market though.