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View Full Version : Why Pepsi yes and WCT Challenge no?


llgc8080
04-01-2008, 12:55 PM
Does anyone knows why ATP recognize like and official event Pepsi Grand Slam Cup? And why not recognize WCT Challenge Cup? I'm tired to ask to "ATP Contact" and not receive an answer (in other questions they send to you a mail at least).
Thank you guys.

Moose Malloy
04-01-2008, 01:56 PM
The ATP has so much incorrect info on its site(scores, career titles), I wouldn't think too much about this, I'm sure there is no real reason other than somebody just forgot to enter it.

I've emailed them so many times about errors, & they haven't corrected it yet, its not worth the effort.

But email them about Nadal's claycourt win streak, & what happens if he gives a walkover, you get a response. They only care about current players, results, etc.

llgc8080
04-01-2008, 04:46 PM
But email them about Nadal's claycourt win streak, & what happens if he gives a walkover, you get a response. They only care about current players, results, etc.

Totally agree with you, special with this one.

jeffreyneave
04-02-2008, 12:43 PM
the pepsi is 4 man tv event and generally would not be usually be in the Atp stats (in the 70s it did not count in the atp rankings, neither did the WCT finals, Masters or WCt challenge cup). That its turned up probably just reflects the obersvation of one of their researchers.

The WCT challenge cup is a more likely candidate to be included actually. The atp always recognised the WCT as an official circuit; regular WCT events did count towards the ATP rankings. That its not on just reflects poor research. There a loads events missing from the ATP stats, partcularily those between 1968-72, because of poor reseach and the fact that the atp only came to existence in 1973 in terms collecting results for rankings

jeffrey

llgc8080
04-03-2008, 05:48 AM
Thanks jeffrey and Moose. I'll send mails to ATP to fix errors in the website, maybe sometimes they'll tire of me and make changes to their web!!!

Moose Malloy
04-03-2008, 12:59 PM
Jeffrey, what do you know about the Antwerp European Champions Championship? It seems to have been a significant event in the 80s, do you think the ATP should count it? how big was the draw?

jeffreyneave
04-04-2008, 12:18 PM
Antwerp was big money special event than did not count towards the aTP events. The Atp did not like invitation events. They wanted events to be open to all their members not restricted to just the best players

jeffrey

llgc8080
04-07-2008, 09:50 AM
Antwerp was big money special event than did not count towards the aTP events. The Atp did not like invitation events. They wanted events to be open to all their members not restricted to just the best players

jeffrey

Thanks Jeffrey! I got a big doubt about Salisbury Invitational WCT, played in 80 and 81 (only) I believe. What do you think about it?

Another question: WCT Challenge was invitational always?

Thank you again.

jeffreyneave
04-07-2008, 11:38 AM
the salisbury event was another special wct event which did not count towards the atp points.


The wct challenge cup was always an invitational event

jeffrey

Tennisfan!
04-10-2008, 08:21 AM
I can't understand why Pepsi counts. Was not a tournament. An EXO yes.

Q&M son
04-14-2008, 10:04 AM
Look:
Recently I saw in events profiles of ATP website that in Rotterdam, 1982, the winner was Mecir. So, like I knew that Vilas won that tournament, sent one mail per day, three days for week, since this year Rotterdam final... and FINALLY they change the info and fix the mistake, last week! You have to keep trying. Greetings.

Lucio.

Moose Malloy
04-14-2008, 10:16 AM
So, like I knew that Vilas won that tournament, sent one mail per day, three days for week, since this year Rotterdam final... and FINALLY they change the info and fix the mistake, last week!

You are quite a fan!

Since you are a Vilas fan, maybe you can get them to change this(I only emailed them once about this, wo knows if they even read it)

The score they have for the 1974 Vilas-Nastase Masters final is incorrect, it should be 76 62 36 36 64, they have 7-6 6-2 3-6 6-4. I have this match on dvd, also the itf site confirms the correct score.

Q&M son
04-14-2008, 12:27 PM
Thanks Moose, I'll write about the result you mention! No doubt!
By now, I'm writing to ATP for WCT Challenge Cup, since I saw this thread... so maybe, someday, it appears in ATP website!

Q&M son
04-14-2008, 12:43 PM
Keep trying llgc8080.

Lucio.

ford oliver
04-14-2008, 08:54 PM
Jeffrey, Moose and llgc8080, perhaps you've tried this but I always get a response if I click on CONTACT at the bottom of the ATP website and then send my question or correction through the Feedback Forum, which pops up, to the rankings/results/statistics department. A guy named Bram Tukker btukker@atptennis.com has addressed my concerns quite often...give him a try.

Q&M son
04-15-2008, 10:07 AM
ford oliver has right about that guy, Bram Tukker. Today i receive a response about WCT Challenge Cup and he query me the draws for the event and when I get it reply to he. So I enter ITF website and copy the results and send by mail to this man. We'll see...

Lucio.

llgc8080
04-15-2008, 10:24 AM
ford oliver has right about that guy, Bram Tukker. Today i receive a response about WCT Challenge Cup and he query me the draws for the event and when I get it reply to he. So I enter ITF website and copy the results and send by mail to this man. We'll see...

Lucio.

I'll be waiting too! Thanks for share this with us!:)

Q&M son
04-19-2008, 01:31 PM
the salisbury event was another special wct event which did not count towards the atp points.


The wct challenge cup was always an invitational event

jeffrey

jeffrey:

Salisbury call itself Invitational, so do you think this events may "count" like an offcial event instead an exo?

Another:
Who or what picked players to played the WCT Challenge Cup?

Thanks.

Lucio.

jeffreyneave
04-20-2008, 03:58 AM
Invitational means that its restricted to players chosen by WCT. ATp entry list is not used and its not open to all atp players. What do you mean by official?

It was legitmate competition organised by WCt; it was not an exhibition but it was restricted; the atp did not like that. Some WCt events were recognised by the aTP ; others were not.

jeffrey

Q&M son
04-20-2008, 05:09 AM
Invitational means that its restricted to players chosen by WCT. ATp entry list is not used and its not open to all atp players. What do you mean by official?

It was legitmate competition organised by WCt; it was not an exhibition but it was restricted; the atp did not like that. Some WCt events were recognised by the aTP ; others were not.

jeffrey

Thanks jeffrey.

I want to mean if maybe ATP can recognize it, but like you said, they don't like that.

I ask about WCT Challenge Cup cause since weeks I mail ATP about this event, and finally get an answer.
I believe if they "count" Pepsi GS, they must "count" WCT Challenge.
So I want to know more about this tournament (draws I take from ITF webpage).

Regards.

jeffreyneave
04-20-2008, 06:28 AM
WCt invitational in salisbury is really the same competition as the WCt challenge cup. Wct just changed the name and the location. The challenge cup ran from 76 to 79. The invitational ran from at least 80-82: i'm not sure when it frinished. If they can include a 4 man TV event like the pepsi on their web site , they should be able to include all WCt invitation events; their are others like the cBS classic and the sharkey's tourament of champions


the pepsi is just the sort of invitational event that the ATp hated at the time

jeffrey

Q&M son
04-20-2008, 09:39 AM
WCt invitational in salisbury is really the same competition as the WCt challenge cup. Wct just changed the name and the location. The challenge cup ran from 76 to 79. The invitational ran from at least 80-82

Mc Enroe won WCT Challenge in 1980, so I think it's a different event.
WCT Invitational was played between 1978 & 1981 I think.

Regards.

Lucio.

llgc8080
04-20-2008, 12:17 PM
Mc Enroe won WCT Challenge in 1980, so I think it's a different event.
WCT Invitational was played between 1978 & 1981 I think.

Regards.

Lucio.

I agree, think that WCT Invitational was a different tournie than WCT Challenge Cup. And I think the first named was a RR in only one group, two first go to final; but the second had two groups (like Tennis Master Cup), with SF and F.:)

Q&M son
05-02-2008, 02:03 PM
According to ITF, some results don't "appear" in player's bio cause old database. WCT Invitational for example.

Q&M son
05-02-2008, 02:08 PM
According to a mail that I receive from ATP, they "will" consider WCT Challenge Cup to include in its "Vault".

Q&M son
05-17-2008, 08:19 AM
Finally I get it!
Yes!
ATP includes WCT Challenge Cup in its records!

Take a look in this player profiles:

http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/playerprofiles/titles.asp?playernumber=B058 in 1979

http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/playerprofiles/titles.asp?playernumber=N008 in 1976 & 1978

http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/playerprofiles/titles.asp?playernumber=C044 in 1977

http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/playerprofiles/titles.asp?playernumber=M047 in 1980

I'm so damn happy!

Greetings.

Lucio.

Q&M son
05-17-2008, 08:44 AM
CyBorg, you own me one more "title" to Borg! Joke! :)

Tennis old man
05-17-2008, 10:49 AM
Finally I get it!
Yes!
ATP includes WCT Challenge Cup in its records!

Take a look in this player profiles:

http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/playerprofiles/titles.asp?playernumber=B058 in 1979

http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/playerprofiles/titles.asp?playernumber=N008 in 1976 & 1978

http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/playerprofiles/titles.asp?playernumber=C044 in 1977

http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/playerprofiles/titles.asp?playernumber=M047 in 1980

I'm so damn happy!

Greetings.

Lucio.

Congrats son!
Well job!

llgc8080
05-17-2008, 02:35 PM
Finally I get it!
Yes!
ATP includes WCT Challenge Cup in its records!

Take a look in this player profiles:

http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/playerprofiles/titles.asp?playernumber=B058 in 1979

http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/playerprofiles/titles.asp?playernumber=N008 in 1976 & 1978

http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/playerprofiles/titles.asp?playernumber=C044 in 1977

http://www.atptennis.com/3/en/players/playerprofiles/titles.asp?playernumber=M047 in 1980

I'm so damn happy!

Greetings.

Lucio.

I just love you!
Thankkkkkkkkkkkksssssssssssss:)

jeffreyneave
05-18-2008, 10:31 AM
Congratulations on your efforts.

On Nastase's 2nd win , the initial matches were played in november 1976 , but final was played in april 1977, where he beat connors. Whether the event is a 1976 or 1977 event is debatable.


jeffrey

Q&M son
05-18-2008, 04:09 PM
Thank you jeffrey.

Greetings.

Lucio.

CyBorg
05-23-2008, 12:29 PM
CyBorg, you own me one more "title" to Borg! Joke! :)

haha .. tell them to add Salisbury.

CyBorg
05-23-2008, 12:30 PM
btw, add a five-set loss to Borg's record - to Nastase in 1976. In case anyone's interested.

Q&M son
05-24-2008, 02:36 AM
haha .. tell them to add Salisbury.

No doubt at all I'll try!:)