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View Full Version : Federer learns Nadal's forehand


crazylevity
04-03-2008, 08:15 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXDCgRCJeoQ&NR=1

In the last point of the first minute of the video, where Federer is leading 40-15, he clearly hits two forehands of the Nadal variety...finishes up and over his own head, generating huge topspin. Is it true...can that forehand get even more versatile??

I've occassionally attempted a Nadal forehand, personally...throws my opponents rhythm off with the occasional extreme topspin.

hyogen
04-03-2008, 08:30 AM
hmm nice :o how recent is this?

Pro Staff Pete
04-03-2008, 08:34 AM
Nice find!

crazylevity
04-03-2008, 08:40 AM
hmm nice :o how recent is this?

Just; 4th round, Miami 08, against Acasuso.

gdsballer
04-03-2008, 08:42 AM
thats yesterday or the day before
very interesting
it looks so weird with federer copying nadal

crazylevity
04-03-2008, 08:44 AM
^^^ It's not every shot though, unlike Nadal. He still flattens out his forehand like he usually does, and hits his normal rallying forehands. It just seems like he has ADDED this extra forehand if the ball that comes at him seems to ask for it...hitting that extreme topspin can be useful for generating angles or pushing back an advancing opponent.

roddick89
04-03-2008, 08:47 AM
that is a nice find, looks strange yet good, even though i think he lost the point.

circusmouse
04-03-2008, 08:58 AM
Excellent video. I can't tell if Fed looked really sharp or if Acasuso was just making him look good by comparison. He was definitely wiping the floor.

Nadal_Freak
04-03-2008, 09:18 AM
Maybe Federer has figured it out. You need to have Nadal's forehand to win the French Open. ;)

Voltron
04-03-2008, 09:26 AM
Maybe Federer has figured it out. You need to have Nadal's forehand to win the French Open. ;)

Wrong, the key is butt-picking.

saram
04-03-2008, 09:26 AM
Maybe Federer has figured it out. You need to have Nadal's forehand to win the French Open. ;)

I knew you couldn't avoid this thread!

caulcano
04-03-2008, 09:32 AM
Maybe Federer has figured it out. You need to have Nadal's forehand to win the French Open. ;)

Nah.

If anything, Federer should 'copying' Nadal's BH ...... his weakness (if you can call it a weakness).

quest01
04-03-2008, 09:42 AM
I noticed that, thats kind of strange why Federer would try hitting his forehand like Nadal.

Strateon
04-03-2008, 09:56 AM
Maybe he hit the ball late.

Don't any of you guys end up the same way when maybe the ball skids a bit and catches you?

iplaybetter
04-03-2008, 10:04 AM
Wrong, the key is butt-picking.

well duh!!!!!!!

paperduetoday
04-03-2008, 10:11 AM
It's not just that he's imitating Nadal's forehand, it seems he been trying to hit with mroe topspin throughout the match and tournament.
I think he's trying to change up his game abit. Have more variety. Since he hasn't been doing too well this year, he might as well give it a try. He usually hits a bit more flat when he goes across hhis body instead of takeing it over his shoulder.
I think he should just work more on his footwork though. He doesn't seem to be moving as quick as he use to.

el sergento
04-03-2008, 12:14 PM
He does this quite often, but usually only when on the run and going down the line where he often finishes over his right shoulder.

It is strange to see him do it twice in a row from a somewhat neutral position though. I think he was just mucking around as he really didn't generate that much spin, hit them short and allowed Acasuso to tee off on the last one.

He's definitely not going to do this very often and the ONLY way he's winning the FO is by serve and volleying out of his mind, ala Stich's final run:)

el sergento
04-03-2008, 12:16 PM
It's not just that he's imitating Nadal's forehand, it seems he been trying to hit with mroe topspin throughout the match and tournament.
I think he's trying to change up his game abit. Have more variety. Since he hasn't been doing too well this year, he might as well give it a try. He usually hits a bit more flat when he goes across hhis body instead of takeing it over his shoulder.
I think he should just work more on his footwork though. He doesn't seem to be moving as quick as he use to.

Yeah, and that means attacking and finishing the points at net. That's what he's been doing all tournament, he's actually moving away from playing long baseline rallies. In fact, whenever he did have to play from the baseline, Acasuso usually came out on top, at least in the first set.

jmsx521
04-03-2008, 01:10 PM
I don't think you can rip the ball as much as if you had a 100 sq.in. racket. Interesting that Federer is doing it... but I don't know if it will really work on clay.

emcee143
04-03-2008, 01:32 PM
He was hitting those types of shots during last year's clay season. Why would everyone pick up on it now?

jlan
04-03-2008, 01:55 PM
This is nothing new. Fed's been doing this for a while when he wants to whip the ball crosscourt with more top spin.

Babb
04-03-2008, 02:00 PM
Perhaps this is nothing new, but it's interesting to see that Fed is versatile enough to learn someone else's forehand. It's kind of scary...

Babb
04-03-2008, 02:03 PM
Oh, and 3:07 is a classic Nadal forehand.

fastdunn
04-03-2008, 02:11 PM
i think i've heard, fed's and nadal's forehands are not so different after all, in terms of stroke mechanism. i could be wrong though...

dgoran
04-03-2008, 02:26 PM
Sampras was using that when he was running out of time on his forehand.

Babb
04-03-2008, 02:29 PM
Sampras never generated that much topspin... you might want to look at the RPM of forehand spin in the latest issue of TENNIS.

jmsx521
04-03-2008, 02:29 PM
He was hitting those types of shots during last year's clay season. Why would everyone pick up on it now?I must've not noticed. Are you sure he's been hitting like those two FHs he hit?

drakulie
04-03-2008, 02:31 PM
Guys, it's called a "reverse forehand". every pro does it from time to time.

Babb
04-03-2008, 02:33 PM
^^^
And thus we have been enlightened! :D

drakulie
04-03-2008, 02:39 PM
^^^^ I rarely if ever see Fed do it from that particular position on the court. Usually, I see him hit that shot when he is on the run wide to his FH side.

jmsx521
04-03-2008, 02:42 PM
Guys, it's called a "reverse forehand". every pro does it from time to time.So, are you saying Nadal hits "reverse forehands?" What I saw from Federer -- as the original poster mentioned -- is pretty clear, they look like Nadal forehands.

drakulie
04-03-2008, 02:47 PM
Robert Ladnsdorp has been teaching that shot for well over 20+ years.

Check out davenport, capriatti, sampras on the run, serena etc. they all hit it from time to time. There is not one pro on the tour that doesn't.

Nadal just hits it almost exclusively.

Tempest344
04-03-2008, 03:38 PM
except for the fact that feds grip is different

anyone one can do that finish however so he isn't
"learning" nadal's forehand

Vision84
04-03-2008, 03:47 PM
It is very commonly used for the Running forehand. Quite uncommon as just a regular 'rally' ball like Nadal does it. That is why Fed looks like Nadal so much.

stormholloway
04-03-2008, 03:50 PM
Sampras was using that when he was running out of time on his forehand.

Exactly. This thread is so silly. Federer's idol was Sampras. You can watch Federer play Agassi on youtube when he was still basically a child and many of his forehands end up over his head.

This has nothing to do with Nadal and is certainly not a new development.

TennisProdigy
04-03-2008, 05:04 PM
So, are you saying Nadal hits "reverse forehands?" What I saw from Federer -- as the original poster mentioned -- is pretty clear, they look like Nadal forehands.

Yes nowadays the only shot nadal hits on the forehand side are reverse forehands. Back when he was 17 he did hit a "normal forehand" with the same grip he used now but since he's so strong the forehand was extremely powerful but would generate a lot of UE.

For the record Sharapova hits a of reverse forehands too.

Cup8489
04-03-2008, 07:27 PM
I don't think you can rip the ball as much as if you had a 100 sq.in. racket. Interesting that Federer is doing it... but I don't know if it will really work on clay.

if you ht it just right, you definitely can. i can do this same shot so much better with my dense string pattern nxgs than i can with my pure drive. interestingly enough, its also more fluid with the nxgs

127mph
04-03-2008, 08:04 PM
hes done those shots on the run for years now. nothing new.

ledor
04-03-2008, 08:06 PM
how high did that groundstroke kick up for him to even try that forehand?

GOD_BLESS_RAFA
04-03-2008, 11:52 PM
Wrong, the key is butt-picking.
Keep learning Federer! :):):)

AlpineCadet
04-03-2008, 11:55 PM
Exactly. This thread is so silly. Federer's idol was Sampras. You can watch Federer play Agassi on youtube when he was still basically a child and many of his forehands end up over his head.

I agree 100%. But if Pete Sampras was using a Prince Original Graphite 90, I wonder if Federer would have been using the same thing?

crawl4
04-04-2008, 12:24 AM
wat other reason but french open is there for this people?

hes been doing all in miami

llbarracks
04-04-2008, 07:29 AM
Maybe Federer has figured it out. You need to have Nadal's forehand to win the French Open. ;)

Huge biceps help too

stormholloway
04-04-2008, 03:14 PM
I agree 100%. But if Pete Sampras was using a Prince Original Graphite 90, I wonder if Federer would have been using the same thing?

Federer was a big Edberg fan back in the day too, but you never know.

stormholloway
04-04-2008, 03:15 PM
Huge biceps help too

Well, Federer hits the ball harder and has a heavier racquet, so I doubt it.

World Beater
04-04-2008, 08:35 PM
the finish on the fh is not unusual but the grip and open stance position are unusual and makes these fhs resemble nadal fhs.

sampras running fhs were hit with a totally different grip and much less wrist snap. its a totally different shot even if the racket finishes in the same position.

stormholloway
04-04-2008, 09:04 PM
Federer's grip is closer to Sampras than to Nadal.

Aabye
04-04-2008, 09:17 PM
Someone probably said this...but its not that he's hitting the reverse forehand that's strange. It's that he is doing it in a rally where he using hits his flat forehand. Thus, to the OP point, it does look like Nadal's. Though I wonder if he was just messing around (seeing as Jose A wasn't entertaining him enough). I can't see him trying to join the "if you can't beat 'em, join 'em" club at this stage.

TheNatural
04-05-2008, 06:22 AM
feds backhand is sitting up a lot and hes never doing anything effective of the backhand return. It looks like the backhand is getting worse.


I don't think you can rip the ball as much as if you had a 100 sq.in. racket. Interesting that Federer is doing it... but I don't know if it will really work on clay.

westside
04-05-2008, 08:13 PM
http://www.vimeo.com/630883


He does it here as well

stormholloway
04-05-2008, 08:40 PM
I had trouble with that video. The quality looked like it might be really nice but it was all choppy.

TENNIS_IS_FUN
04-05-2008, 10:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXDCgRCJeoQ&NR=1

In the last point of the first minute of the video, where Federer is leading 40-15, he clearly hits two forehands of the Nadal variety...finishes up and over his own head, generating huge topspin. Is it true...can that forehand get even more versatile??

I've occassionally attempted a Nadal forehand, personally...throws my opponents rhythm off with the occasional extreme topspin.

He lost the point.

tennis_hand
04-05-2008, 11:57 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXDCgRCJeoQ&NR=1

In the last point of the first minute of the video, where Federer is leading 40-15, he clearly hits two forehands of the Nadal variety...finishes up and over his own head, generating huge topspin. Is it true...can that forehand get even more versatile??

I've occassionally attempted a Nadal forehand, personally...throws my opponents rhythm off with the occasional extreme topspin.

I noticed it too.

probably something new for his clay season.

[ GTR ]
04-06-2008, 05:57 AM
Federer's grip is closer to Sampras than to Nadal.

Federer's swing is closer to Nadal's than to Sampras', if you're comparing Federer's forehand to Nadal's normal forehand, not reverse.

llbarracks
04-06-2008, 07:15 AM
Well, Federer hits the ball harder and has a heavier racquet, so I doubt it.

Fed does hit the ball harder, but only because Rafa chooses to go with more topspin. If Rafa played a flat forehand like he did in a video posted recently of him when he was young, then I think people would see those muscles help.

Lotto
04-06-2008, 10:13 AM
I think it's obvious that he's trying to hit with more and extreme topspin so he can win on clay and at the FO especially. I played on clay in spain for one week two weeks ago and I hit the ball quite flat on my forehand side and it wasn't anywhere near as effective as when you hit topspin. That's the obvious reason.Also, Federer's grip is an eastern/extreme eastern. If you go to www.tennisplayer.net (http://www.tennisplayer.net) it has loads of the pros shots broken down only not in sequence photos or slow motion but in new high speed technology. You really want the same technique as Nadal or Federer learn it there because it's the only sight with high speed footage and it's twice if not three times as good as slow motion or sequence photos.

Nicr1991
07-02-2008, 12:09 PM
That forehand that you were talking about at the beginning of the post is called the buggy whip or the extension roll forehand. Whereas you only see Federer doing it on the on the on the run forehands Nadal does it quite frequently on almost every forehand. The reason you should only do this technique on the run is because of the way your body is moving and it is hard to have the weight transfer the way you would on a normal shot. Federer normally transfers his weight from his right side to his left side in a rotational motion when he swings by rotating his torso. When you are on the run it is much more difficult to do that so the best way to transfer your weight into your shot is by keeping the racket on the same side of your body and allow your momentum to shift your weight, because if he tried to transfer from right to left on the run he would be severely off balance and have much less consistent shots. The full instruction on how to do this shot is on virtual tennis academy dot com. you have to sign up for a subscription though. there is a good sample video on the modern forehand though. I hope this was helpful

Nicr1991
07-02-2008, 12:17 PM
Btw GTR, stormholloway was correct. Federer's forehand grip is closer to sampras's than to nadal's. Federer uses a grip in between an eastern and a semi-western. Nadal's grip is an extreme western grip. There was just an article on Federer's forehand in tennis magazine a little while ago. you can look it up on tennis dot com.

ajspurs
07-02-2008, 01:12 PM
Yea thats nothing really new, tis funny though. Even Murray has been doing it more often at Wimbledon.

AlpineCadet
07-02-2008, 01:46 PM
That forehand that you were talking about at the beginning of the post is called the buggy whip or the extension roll forehand. Whereas you only see Federer doing it on the on the on the run forehands Nadal does it quite frequently on almost every forehand. The reason you should only do this technique on the run is because of the way your body is moving and it is hard to have the weight transfer the way you would on a normal shot. Federer normally transfers his weight from his right side to his left side in a rotational motion when he swings by rotating his torso. When you are on the run it is much more difficult to do that so the best way to transfer your weight into your shot is by keeping the racket on the same side of your body and allow your momentum to shift your weight, because if he tried to transfer from right to left on the run he would be severely off balance and have much less consistent shots. The full instruction on how to do this shot is on virtual tennis academy dot com. you have to sign up for a subscription though. there is a good sample video on the modern forehand though. I hope this was helpful

Whew, I guess you don't believe in using the Enter button, lol. It's also a great shot if you're hitting late and want to hit with heavy topspin into the deuce corner.

wetmartini
07-02-2008, 02:05 PM
great quote about the reverse forehand from John Yandell at Tennis.com:

The answer actually seems most related to his position on the court. When Nadal hits inside out or inside in, he tends to finish most swings across the body. When he hits in the center of the court, he hits a slightly higher percentage of reverse finishes. When he moves wide or is on the run, virtually every finish is a reverse.

Nadal's other main finish, across the body at the shoulder level. This makes sense because the over-the-head finish is used when players are forced on time and also for generating angles and spins from difficult positions, as Pete Sampras used to do on his running forehand.