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View Full Version : What [I]exactly[/I] is a "[I]wristy forehand[/I]"?


Dupree
04-03-2008, 02:17 PM
I was reading an article about forehands on Tennis Magazine yesterday and one said "cure that wristy forehand" or something like that, they told what to do to avoid it, on a certain degree, but they never said what exactly is it, so i was hoping someone would help me out on this!

Lately i've been thinking alot about my forehand, and although i've been told i have a very good one and sometimes i feel i hit it deep, hard and think i do it right, i can't help but think that i'm doing it wrong, because i've seen some videos of federer and others and they seem to lay back and keep their wrist back when doing the forehand, and i'm pretty sure i don't do this, i feel more like sometimes i don't hit the ball with the racquet horizontal or perpendicular to the ground, sometimes i feel that maybe i snap the wrist forward or even roll my wrist upwards, like to add more topspin or racquet head speed(or so i think),and also that i've heard and read that people say "don't use your wrist", but they don't say how not to use it in the fh, so i was hoping someone could help me out with this! later

drakulie
04-03-2008, 02:33 PM
sometimes i feel that maybe i snap the wrist forward or even roll my wrist upwards,

^^^That is a wristy forehand.

You should not consciously think about snapping your wrist forward. keep it relaxed and laid back. Once the ball leaves the strings, the wrist naturally breaks on it's own.

Notice how fed in the following vid does not purposely snap his wrist forward. Instead, it is laid back, and well after the ball has left the strings, does he begin to roll his forearm around, and then the wrist naturally breaks/releases.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI-xzEAaSs0&feature=related

Bungalo Bill
04-03-2008, 02:39 PM
I was reading an article about forehands on Tennis Magazine yesterday and one said "cure that wristy forehand" or something like that, they told what to do to avoid it, on a certain degree, but they never said what exactly is it, so i was hoping someone would help me out on this!

Lately i've been thinking alot about my forehand, and although i've been told i have a very good one and sometimes i feel i hit it deep, hard and think i do it right, i can't help but think that i'm doing it wrong, because i've seen some videos of federer and others and they seem to lay back and keep their wrist back when doing the forehand, and i'm pretty sure i don't do this, i feel more like sometimes i don't hit the ball with the racquet horizontal or perpendicular to the ground, sometimes i feel that maybe i snap the wrist forward or even roll my wrist upwards, like to add more topspin or racquet head speed(or so i think),and also that i've heard and read that people say "don't use your wrist", but they don't say how not to use it in the fh, so i was hoping someone could help me out with this! later

A wristy forehand is someone that flicks his hand to hit the ball along with their swing. It can also mean someone who has too loose of a wrist and is wobbly.

A wrist that is too loose should be reserved for the serve. For the forehand, you need to grip the handle somewhat which automatically hardens the wrist tendons. Elasticity is what you want in the wrist. You want the wrist to act as a hinge that can stretch as well. The limit of your wrist stretch isnt that big. But it really adds racquet head speed.

When you swing the racquet and your arm begins to come forward, you should allow your wrist to be stretched somewhat from the weight of the racquet and the sudden change in direction of the hand/racquet which is now going forward. This is what creates the laidback wrist.

This is also known as the educated wrist which you can read about here on this board.

Hope that helps.

Dupree
04-03-2008, 05:40 PM
^^^That is a wristy forehand.

You should not consciously think about snapping your wrist forward. keep it relaxed and laid back. Once the ball leaves the strings, the wrist naturally breaks on it's own.

Notice how fed in the following vid does not purposely snap his wrist forward. Instead, it is laid back, and well after the ball has left the strings, does he begin to roll his forearm around, and then the wrist naturally breaks/releases.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI-xzEAaSs0&feature=related

well, but this actually looks like a forehand volley or something like that, not like a really or very powerful forehand like the ones he does you know, so in the video i actually can volley like that with the wrist laid back, it's when i want to do a powerful forehand or a strong one then, then i feel like i do all the things i mentioned, but i don't really know because the shots actually turn out sort of nice, i'll try videotaping myself. Have you also seen a forehand of federer, the videos name is "Amazing federer forehand", which is against agassi in 2003 TMC, it's a running forehand, that forehand actually looks like he rolled his wrist upwards or used it then, i don't know.

A wristy forehand is someone that flicks his hand to hit the ball along with their swing. It can also mean someone who has too loose of a wrist and is wobbly.

A wrist that is too loose should be reserved for the serve. For the forehand, you need to grip the handle somewhat which automatically hardens the wrist tendons. Elasticity is what you want in the wrist. You want the wrist to act as a hinge that can stretch as well. The limit of your wrist stretch isnt that big. But it really adds racquet head speed.

When you swing the racquet and your arm begins to come forward, you should allow your wrist to be stretched somewhat from the weight of the racquet and the sudden change in direction of the hand/racquet which is now going forward. This is what creates the laidback wrist.

This is also known as the educated wrist which you can read about here on this board.

Hope that helps.

it did, but my problem well in attempting to do this, i actually feel this kind of pressure in my wrist and don't quite get or feel racquet-head speed this way

Bungalo Bill
04-03-2008, 06:19 PM
Dupree,

Try relaxing the hand some. Allow the motion to help control the racquet head as the racquet goes forward.

It isn't an obvious feeling necessarily. Sometimes the wrist (really the hand moves) movement is subtle.

Considering that you are holding the racquet with an appropriate grip pressure and your motion is good, there is a high chance it is happening without you knowing it. The wrist can not simple do nothing if your hand is properly relaxed on the handle.

The racquet weight and the sudden direction change will force the hand back no matter what. This is caused by acceleration.

For example, if you relaxed your neck and I suddenly punched it in a Porsche, what would your head do? Yes, it would go back. Same thing with the wrist/hand in the forehand.

AlpineCadet
04-03-2008, 06:24 PM
^^^That is a wristy forehand.

You should not consciously think about snapping your wrist forward. keep it relaxed and laid back. Once the ball leaves the strings, the wrist naturally breaks on it's own.

Notice how fed in the following vid does not purposely snap his wrist forward. Instead, it is laid back, and well after the ball has left the strings, does he begin to roll his forearm around, and then the wrist naturally breaks/releases.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qI-xzEAaSs0&feature=related

That looks like a service return, where he's just blocking back the pace. There are a few other videos showing Fed's variety, and he's definitely got some wristy forehands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1bKZLwTpV4

watermantra
04-03-2008, 07:05 PM
That looks like a service return, where he's just blocking back the pace. There are a few other videos showing Fed's variety, and he's definitely got some wristy forehands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1bKZLwTpV4

I still wouldn't call those "wristy", as the wrist is simply breaking after contact. Also remember that he is Roger Federer! He can get away with more than mere mortals. He has amazing feel and timing.

Sometimes I "roll" my wrist returning drop shots extremely cross court. It's more of a forearm roll, though it might look as if my wrist is breaking early.

Bungalo Bill
04-03-2008, 07:08 PM
I still wouldn't call those "wristy", as the wrist is simply breaking after contact. Also remember that he is Roger Federer! He can get away with more than mere mortals. He has amazing feel and timing.

Excellent comment and a very intelligent response. Performing Federers forehand exactly as he does it, leaves out all the practice and hours he has spent perfecting his forehand through good fundamentals.

Practice the fundamentals and all things will fall into place.

Dupree
04-03-2008, 08:48 PM
Dupree,

Try relaxing the hand some. Allow the motion to help control the racquet head as the racquet goes forward.

It isn't an obvious feeling necessarily. Sometimes the wrist (really the hand moves) movement is subtle.

Considering that you are holding the racquet with an appropriate grip pressure and your motion is good, there is a high chance it is happening without you knowing it. The wrist can not simple do nothing if your hand is properly relaxed on the handle.

The racquet weight and the sudden direction change will force the hand back no matter what. This is caused by acceleration.

For example, if you relaxed your neck and I suddenly punched it in a Porsche, what would your head do? Yes, it would go back. Same thing with the wrist/hand in the forehand.

well, i use an eastern forehand grip, sometimes and mostly i use a grip in between the eastern fh and the semi-western, something in between, and rarely i use a semiwestern, it really depends on the shot, the height and my preference, so it's not always this grip or this one, it depends; well i am also sort of strong, well i work out and have pretty strong and defined arms and well i can control the racquet pretty well (the weight that is) but it doesn't mean i muscle the ball, i don't do that and have been taught not to and know about it then, i try to have a relaxed swing at all times; something that i wanted to ask you about this whole "laid back wrist" technique:
-does it also happen on a western grip or on a semiwestern grip? because i feel it is kind of difficult to do so on a semi-western and i can't even picture it on a western, so something i was wondering about.

That looks like a service return, where he's
just blocking back the pace. There are a few other videos showing Fed's variety, and he's definitely got some wristy forehands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1bKZLwTpV4

That looks like a service return, where he's
just blocking back the pace.

that's what i thought about this one.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1bKZLwTpV4

these are the kind of forehands that i sometimes made which people told me not to do them, and i was kind of like "what?", where you kind or roll your wrist upwards to create more spin, i have to tell though that when i mean "use my wrist" or "roll" it or whatever, i don't mean just using my hand or wrist, i make a full swing but just before contact i accelerate the racquet with my hand/wrist and so i don't just wrist it , so i was wondering about this.

Also another problem that i feel i have, is that i think that when i hit the ball the racquet face i think it's not perpendicular to the ground or horizontal, and when i watch the pros they all hit like this, and i somehow feel like i don't, anyways i'd have to video tape myself to really find out. Thanks all! kkep it coming, later.

AlpineCadet
04-03-2008, 10:43 PM
I still wouldn't call those "wristy", as the wrist is simply breaking after contact. Also remember that he is Roger Federer! He can get away with more than mere mortals. He has amazing feel and timing.

Sometimes I "roll" my wrist returning drop shots extremely cross court. It's more of a forearm roll, though it might look as if my wrist is breaking early.

Compared to the video Drakulie posted, RF is very "wristy" in my video link. He's rolling his wrist from start to finish, so IMHO it's called being wristy. (That video should even set the standard for it.) Your opinion is welcomed though.

Bungalo Bill
04-03-2008, 10:48 PM
well, i use an eastern forehand grip, sometimes and mostly i use a grip in between the eastern fh and the semi-western, something in between, and rarely i use a semiwestern, it really depends on the shot, the height and my preference, so it's not always this grip or this one, it depends; well i am also sort of strong, well i work out and have pretty strong and defined arms and well i can control the racquet pretty well (the weight that is) but it doesn't mean i muscle the ball, i don't do that and have been taught not to and know about it then, i try to have a relaxed swing at all times; something that i wanted to ask you about this whole "laid back wrist" technique:
-does it also happen on a western grip or on a semiwestern grip? because i feel it is kind of difficult to do so on a semi-western and i can't even picture it on a western, so something i was wondering about.

Yes, it does happen. A relaxed hitting arm on the takeback and forward swing is what you want. I can bet if you posted video and your have a decent but relaxed grip with a good technical swing you are doing what you need to do.

Andres
04-04-2008, 05:19 AM
Wristy Forehands:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j07K8LYyrs

Nadal vs. Andreev. Specially Andreev's.

Dupree
04-04-2008, 08:44 AM
:???:Yes, it does happen. A relaxed hitting arm on the takeback and forward swing is what you want. I can bet if you posted video and your have a decent but relaxed grip with a good technical swing you are doing what you need to do.

Good news, thank God i finally fixed my forehand today; i was watching a video of federer hitting some forehands, and what i noticed was that when he hits them, he turns his body, the unit turn i believe they call it, i noticed i don't do this that much, and also mostly what was going on was that my timing was off, and in result i was hitting the balls too in front of me, that's why i had that feeling with the racquet that i hit it wrong, so i went out with my racquet and a ball and started hitting against a wall and started doing these 2 things with a relaxed swing and fortunately the forehand came out! Now all i have to do is practice it more to make it solid correct? I also noticed that i had to hit the balls just a little in front of me, not too in front, is that correct also?

I also wanted to ask you about what i asked you before; can you do the laid back wrist with the semi-western or western forehand?

Wristy Forehands:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1j07K8LYyrs

Nadal vs. Andreev. Specially Andreev's.

yep, those look wristy, and i really don't like them both:???:

Bungalo Bill
04-04-2008, 10:35 AM
:???:Now all i have to do is practice it more to make it solid correct?

Great job, great self-analyzing. You need that skill as you get better. However, with your question, I would hope you would know what I would say to that.

I also noticed that i had to hit the balls just a little in front of me, not too in front, is that correct also?

Ahhh, you are speaking to the wrong guy on this one. I am a vicinity teacher. I do not hold any hard and fast rules on how far in front you need to hit the ball just so long as your arm is in front of your body plane. However, I tend to hit less in front then some of my collegues. To them the further out in front the better. For me, I tend to like to bring it in a little more.

I am a believer that the power zone is between your feet like a baseball player. If you found a good contact point that you like and it isn't weird, bring it home and drill it. Later you can make adjustments.

I also wanted to ask you about what i asked you before; can you do the laid back wrist with the semi-western or western forehand?

Yes. I think I answered that. :)

Dupree
04-04-2008, 01:37 PM
Great job, great self-analyzing. You need that skill as you get better. However, with your question, I would hope you would know what I would say to that.



Ahhh, you are speaking to the wrong guy on this one. I am a vicinity teacher. I do not hold any hard and fast rules on how far in front you need to hit the ball just so long as your arm is in front of your body plane. However, I tend to hit less in front then some of my collegues. To them the further out in front the better. For me, I tend to like to bring it in a little more.

I am a believer that the power zone is between your feet like a baseball player. If you found a good contact point that you like and it isn't weird, bring it home and drill it. Later you can make adjustments.



Yes. I think I answered that. :)

hey i forgot to thank you on my previous post for your tips (sorry!)
Well i thought trying to hit the ball a little closer than i did was necessary and better, because i've also seen all the pros that they hit the ball the moment the racquet it like almost completely horizontal with the court or i don't know how exactly to explain this, but yeah it's like baseball, you kind of want to hit the ball in between too far and too close, something in the middle, or at least that's what i think and have done there, because i think that if you hit it too in front the impulse or force will be lessened, also by doing this i feel that i still have my hand/wrist a little laid back still and gets some more whip. And you can also see this in almost every pic of federer hitting a fh.

Bungalo Bill
04-04-2008, 01:52 PM
hey i forgot to thank you on my previous post for your tips (sorry!)
Well i thought trying to hit the ball a little closer than i did was necessary and better, because i've also seen all the pros that they hit the ball the moment the racquet it like almost completely horizontal with the court or i don't know how exactly to explain this, but yeah it's like baseball, you kind of want to hit the ball in between too far and too close, something in the middle, or at least that's what i think and have done there, because i think that if you hit it too in front the impulse or force will be lessened, also by doing this i feel that i still have my hand/wrist a little laid back still and gets some more whip. And you can also see this in almost every pic of federer hitting a fh.

Thanks! I hope something helps.

Keep the hitting within the feet in perspective. I largely base it on the angle my body is in at times such as the 45 degree angle. So the "width" of the feet doesnt not translate well if you are thinking that my body is perpendicular to the net.

If you think of the 45 degree angle, I am actually hitting the ball "in front" of my body.

Dupree
04-04-2008, 09:32 PM
Thanks! I hope something helps.

Keep the hitting within the feet in perspective. I largely base it on the angle my body is in at times such as the 45 degree angle. So the "width" of the feet doesnt not translate well if you are thinking that my body is perpendicular to the net.

If you think of the 45 degree angle, I am actually hitting the ball "in front" of my body.

Yep, will do, but sorry to bother you but i'm still not sure and don't know about the laid back wrist on the other 2 grips i asked you lol :confused:

Bungalo Bill
04-05-2008, 07:41 AM
Yep, will do, but sorry to bother you but i'm still not sure and don't know about the laid back wrist on the other 2 grips i asked you lol :confused:

The laid back wrist is for all grips.

Dupree
04-05-2008, 01:36 PM
The laid back wrist is for all grips.

Oh ok then!

acer
04-23-2008, 07:55 PM
Hey Bill, I just had a question on the laid back wrist. I noticed in old post that you mentioned that keeping a laid back wrist on the backswing is like yesteryear. See below.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/archive/index.php/t-70705.html

"The educated wrist is relaxed through the entire motion. It is not laid back on the backswing like yesteryear. It lays back when the racquet is thrusted forward. Becuase the racquet is accelerating faster then the elasticity in the wrist can respond to, it stays layed back until the arm slows down which causes the hand/racquet to accelerate through the ball using the wrist as a well oiled hinge. Again, this happens with your head when you step on the gas in a very fast car.
"

Bill , I purchased John Yandell's book Visual Tennis where he talks about keeping the double bend throughout the stroke (bent elbow and wrist). I actually emailed him to ask if the laid back wrist meant bending the wrist back toward your forearm or supinating your forearm to get the wrist back. P.S. I found a good discussion on this. See below.

http://www.tennisplayer.net/bulletin/showthread.php?t=388

John Yandell stated that you bend the wrist back toward the forearm but he did state that his thinking has progessed since he wrote the book.

Anyway, this leads to my question. Is keeping the laid back wrist through the entire stroke now an old school concept and now the thinking is more towards an educated wrist as you described above.

Thanks

Acer

JohnYandell
04-25-2008, 08:35 AM
I think this remains one of the fascinating questions that provokes a lot of "discussion."

Regarding my book there is an important distinction to be made between what you model and what that translates into in terms of actual play.

When Visual Tennis was first published about 15 years ago, I'd never found any significant discussion of what I thought was the most critical part of the stroke-how the hand and arm actually position around the contact.

The concept of the double bend allows any player to replicate what most top players do. We can acknowledge the straight armed forehand as another variation but Djokovic is the latest top player with a great forehand and a double bend structure.

In teaching I think it's very beneficial to keep the wrist in the double bend all the way out to the extension point-as shown in the book. That's on relatively slow balls in controlled drill.

If you really feel it and how this creates contact in front and allows you to use your shoulders and legs to drive the ball, then you can just let you arm relax as Bungalow Bill has described. Typically it still stays well laid back until something like halfway to the further extension point, and by the way that's true for Federer on most forehands as well as everyone else.

The wrist functions kind of like a hinge and it will come around somewhat on some shots and less on others and actually go further back after contact on some shots as well. It very rarely reaches the neutral position and you never see it go past that until the ball is long gone. All this just kind of happens and it's a big mistake in my opinion to try to make it happen.

One important thing to realize though is that Brian Gordon's studies have confirmed that the contribution of any forward movement of the wrist to racket head speed are minimal. Which makes sense or you would see it in all the forehands, not just some. So in this context the idea of snapping your wrist forward makes no sense at all.

BUT another critical action is the rotation of the entire hitting arm structure-the so-called wiper. Some people like to think of this as the "snap." I don't think that's an accurate description here either, but it is a critical component in the modern forehand. The key point to understand is that the hand and arm and racket rotate as unit from the shoulder. This is how you can increase spin particularly with the more conservative grips. It's an independent variable and can be mixed in to a lesser or greater amount. It can also be combined with more or less extension depending on the type of ball you are hitting and the type of ball you are trying to hit.

Having said all that I rarely work with a player on the forehand who doesn't benefit from doing that basic work on hitting all the way through the stroke with that basic double bend structure.

acer
04-25-2008, 10:57 AM
I think this remains one of the fascinating questions that provokes a lot of "discussion."

Regarding my book there is an important distinction to be made between what you model and what that translates into in terms of actual play.

When Visual Tennis was first published about 15 years ago, I'd never found any significant discussion of what I thought was the most critical part of the stroke-how the hand and arm actually position around the contact.

The concept of the double bend allows any player to replicate what most top players do. We can acknowledge the straight armed forehand as another variation but Djokovic is the latest top player with a great forehand and a double bend structure.

In teaching I think it's very beneficial to keep the wrist in the double bend all the way out to the extension point-as shown in the book. That's on relatively slow balls in controlled drill.

If you really feel it and how this creates contact in front and allows you to use your shoulders and legs to drive the ball, then you can just let you arm relax as Bungalow Bill has described. Typically it still stays well laid back until something like halfway to the further extension point, and by the way that's true for Federer on most forehands as well as everyone else.

The wrist functions kind of like a hinge and it will come around somewhat on some shots and less on others and actually go further back after contact on some shots as well. It very rarely reaches the neutral position and you never see it go past that until the ball is long gone. All this just kind of happens and it's a big mistake in my opinion to try to make it happen.

One important thing to realize though is that Brian Gordon's studies have confirmed that the contribution of any forward movement of the wrist to racket head speed are minimal. Which makes sense or you would see it in all the forehands, not just some. So in this context the idea of snapping your wrist forward makes no sense at all.

BUT another critical action is the rotation of the entire hitting arm structure-the so-called wiper. Some people like to think of this as the "snap." I don't think that's an accurate description here either, but it is a critical component in the modern forehand. The key point to understand is that the hand and arm and racket rotate as unit from the shoulder. This is how you can increase spin particularly with the more conservative grips. It's an independent variable and can be mixed in to a lesser or greater amount. It can also be combined with more or less extension depending on the type of ball you are hitting and the type of ball you are trying to hit.

Having said all that I rarely work with a player on the forehand who doesn't benefit from doing that basic work on hitting all the way through the stroke with that basic double bend structure.

Hi John, thanks for providing some more valuable insight in this discussiion. I am finding your book to be a valuable asset in my tennis book collection. It may be 15 years old but still has some solid concepts.

I myself have a straight arm forehand and I have been trying to incorporate some wrist action into my shots. I see alot of people at the club that I play at who appear to have some wrist action in thier forehand. The ones that have wrist action all seem to have quite a powerful forehand. I am finding that like you and Bungalo Bill say that it is better not to force it. I am really working hard on just having a loose grip and letting gravity do it's thing. What I was getting confused on is wether you should keep the wrist bent and laid back all the way throught the stroke like you describe in your book or has the thinking progressed where now you should have the wrist laid back and loose at the start of the forward swing and just let gravity naturally let it move forward as the racquet catches up to the arm on contact. For me, the latter seems to give me better results. Any insight?

Thanks

Acer

Bungalo Bill
04-25-2008, 11:46 AM
Hi John, thanks for providing some more valuable insight in this discussiion. I am finding your book to be a valuable asset in my tennis book collection. It may be 15 years old but still has some solid concepts.

I myself have a straight arm forehand and I have been trying to incorporate some wrist action into my shots. I see alot of people at the club that I play at who appear to have some wrist action in thier forehand. The ones that have wrist action all seem to have quite a powerful forehand. I am finding that like you and Bungalo Bill say that it is better not to force it. I am really working hard on just having a loose grip and letting gravity do it's thing. What I was getting confused on is wether you should keep the wrist bent and laid back all the way throught the stroke like you describe in your book or has the thinking progressed where now you should have the wrist laid back and loose at the start of the forward swing and just let gravity naturally let it move forward as the racquet catches up to the arm on contact. For me, the latter seems to give me better results. Any insight?

Thanks

Acer

Acer,

That is a classy thing you wrote. I like that you gave credit to someone that helped you even though you didn't need too. Good job. I am sure John will respond with more information. If not, I will check back and help out.

GeorgeLucas
04-25-2008, 12:12 PM
If you consciously incorporate the wrist into your forehand:
1. You are an idiot
2. You are ignorant of basic, logical physics
3. You don't care about your tennis game or health in general
4. You didn't learn or are unaware of proper forehand technique (I hope most people who have wristy forehands fall into this category)

The wrist coming forward or up in the forehand is a byproduct of a relaxed and natural swing. You NEED TO KEEP THE WRIST BACK at least through contact. This is not antiquated technique or whatever some 3.5 players want to call it. In fact, unless a person has the IQ of a lab rat, he or she should easily be able to come to the conclusion through deductive reasoning that for any sort of effective forehand, the wrist MUST be kept back through contact.

Bungalo Bill
04-25-2008, 12:34 PM
If you consciously incorporate the wrist into your forehand:
1. You are an idiot
2. You are ignorant of basic, logical physics
3. You don't care about your tennis game or health in general
4. You didn't learn or are unaware of proper forehand technique (I hope most people who have wristy forehands fall into this category)

The wrist coming forward or up in the forehand is a byproduct of a relaxed and natural swing. You NEED TO KEEP THE WRIST BACK at least through contact. This is not antiquated technique or whatever some 3.5 players want to call it. In fact, unless a person has the IQ of a lab rat, he or she should easily be able to come to the conclusion through deductive reasoning that for any sort of effective forehand, the wrist MUST be kept back through contact.

Wow, a person after my own posts (I mean heart). Unfortunately, it is suppose to be me that creates the controversy around here. :)

acer
04-25-2008, 05:49 PM
Acer,

That is a classy thing you wrote. I like that you gave credit to someone that helped you even though you didn't need too. Good job. I am sure John will respond with more information. If not, I will check back and help out.

Hi Bill

Thanks for your kind words. I really appreciate the advice that both you and John provide on this board.

Thanks

Acer

JohnYandell
04-25-2008, 06:47 PM
George Lucas basically has it right...finally someone other than BB quick with the wit...


But seriously what he says is true. When you say people at your club "appear" to have wrist action and have "powerful" forehands... well let's just say that is unlikely to stand the test of video analysis.

Bungalo Bill
04-26-2008, 01:01 AM
Hi Bill

Thanks for your kind words. I really appreciate the advice that both you and John provide on this board.

Thanks

Acer

You are quite welcome. I enjoy reading grateful posts for what John, Pat, Mahboob, and others have contributed to this sport. I am sure it motivates them to keep on going.

I enjoyed it!

Dupree
07-01-2008, 09:20 PM
If you consciously incorporate the wrist into your forehand:
1. You are an idiot
2. You are ignorant of basic, logical physics
3. You don't care about your tennis game or health in general
4. You didn't learn or are unaware of proper forehand technique (I hope most people who have wristy forehands fall into this category)

The wrist coming forward or up in the forehand is a byproduct of a relaxed and natural swing. You NEED TO KEEP THE WRIST BACK at least through contact. This is not antiquated technique or whatever some 3.5 players want to call it. In fact, unless a person has the IQ of a lab rat, he or she should easily be able to come to the conclusion through deductive reasoning that for any sort of effective forehand, the wrist MUST be kept back through contact.

Hey,this post's kinda old,but I wanted to talk about this subject again,because well I started playing again (spent like 1 1/2 months without restringing my racket) and I really wanted to get this whole wrist thing straight.
Well, the wrist movement I was referring to is exactly the one that Federer does in the video AlpineCadet posted, which is more of a "rolling up" the raquet with the wrist than snaping it forward to the ball, which is crazy and unthinkable, and this movement that Federer does is again the one I used to do to get alot of very fast shots with high topspin, which were very cool, and if you examine this movement, it makes alot of sense, at least for me it does, because you generate alot of head speed and thus more topspin with your forehand, so I don't undestand when people here say that that's a "wristy fh" and that I shouldn't do that, oh and by the way, my wrist actually IS laid back when I do this, and if you see another video of federer on youtube named "Borg to Federer forehand comparison" you can clearly see on both forehands he does, more on the second one, that he does this!

Sublime
07-02-2008, 10:45 AM
That looks like a service return, where he's just blocking back the pace. There are a few other videos showing Fed's variety, and he's definitely got some wristy forehands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1bKZLwTpV4

Which part of this hit are we calling "wristy"?

I certainly see him pronate his forearm, causing a racket face to sweep up like a windshield wiper, but I wouldn't call that "wristy".

It also looks like he whips his racket forward (like he's throwing a frisbee). But if you pause the video at ball contact his racket is at 90 degrees from his forearm. Whatever I think I'm seeing, is either an illusion or happening after contact. In either case, it's not a component of the swing that effects the ball.

jb193
07-02-2008, 11:03 AM
On the forehand, when the racquet head is moving forward, from looking at some slow motion pro player videos, it seems as though the racquet head "dips" to an extent before it makes contact with the ball. It appears that the forearm becomes inverted to a limited (small) extent. Is that intentional? Does that spring load the forearm (and eventually the wrist) to enable more of a windshield wiper motion as opposed to only moving the racquet head on an horizontal path. I seem to drive through the ball more so (too much, lack of control at times) than hitting with a windshield wiper motion and I was wondering if this specific motion was part of the reason. Thanks ahead for any responses.

AlpineCadet
07-02-2008, 12:20 PM
Which part of this hit are we calling "wristy"?

I certainly see him pronate his forearm, causing a racket face to sweep up like a windshield wiper, but I wouldn't call that "wristy".

It also looks like he whips his racket forward (like he's throwing a frisbee). But if you pause the video at ball contact his racket is at 90 degrees from his forearm. Whatever I think I'm seeing, is either an illusion or happening after contact. In either case, it's not a component of the swing that effects the ball.

Wow, this is an old thread! Anyway, I think your question has already been answered in this same thread:

Compared to the video Drakulie posted, RF is very "wristy" in my video link. He's rolling his wrist from start to finish, so IMHO it's called being wristy. (That video should even set the standard for it.) Your opinion is welcomed though.

That looks like a service return, where he's just blocking back the pace. There are a few other videos showing Fed's variety, and he's definitely got some wristy forehands.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1bKZLwTpV4

Dupree
07-03-2008, 06:52 PM
So in conclusion is this rolling movement of the wrist a good thing to do?