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View Full Version : What other Tournament do you Consider to be the 5th Slam?


Jimmyk459
04-05-2008, 01:53 PM
I have always felt that Rome, Pacific Life, and Miami have always been the other biggest tournaments outside of the Slams. I was wondering what everyone else thought....

WhiskeyEE
04-05-2008, 02:09 PM
I don't really consider any tournament a 5th slam, as I consider all of the masters tournaments fairly equal (a couple notches below all slams).

If anything, I'd have to say Shanghai, though.

vive le beau jeu !
04-05-2008, 03:10 PM
if there is a number 5, it has to be the masters (cup)...

Andres
04-05-2008, 03:36 PM
TMC, then Monte Carlo, then Miami, to my eyes :)

GasquetGOAT
04-05-2008, 03:42 PM
I'd like to see another slam played on indoor carpet, either Madrid or Shanghai (Paris already has FO).

Realisticly only Dubai and Shanghai would have the financial power to become the 5th slam.

MEAC_ALLAMERICAN
04-05-2008, 03:44 PM
Soon Cincinatti will be up there in terms of the top tournaments when they up the prize money and possibly merge the ATP/WTA events.

But the Kremlin Cup * I just like this tournament for some reason *, Indian Wells, Rome, Hamburg and of course Miami. :)

Andres
04-05-2008, 03:50 PM
Russia has two tournaments with prize money over $1,000,000: Moscow and St. Petersburg. A 5th slam on Russia? Maybe an indoor carpet Master Series? :D

ATP MS Moscow... yeah, I can totally picture it :D

MEAC_ALLAMERICAN
04-05-2008, 03:56 PM
Russia has two tournaments with prize money over $1,000,000: Moscow and St. Petersburg. A 5th slam on Russia? Maybe an indoor carpet Master Series? :D

ATP MS Moscow... yeah, I can totally picture it :D

I've never thought of a Masters event in Russia, but that would make a lot of sense to me. :D

Nadal_Freak
04-05-2008, 04:03 PM
Miami now that Nadal is winning there. :)

Zaragoza
04-05-2008, 04:05 PM
No one.........

superman1
04-05-2008, 04:17 PM
Masters Cup.

Vincescourt
04-05-2008, 04:25 PM
Miami, players love the weather, the latin flavor of the town and south beach

kingdaddy41788
04-05-2008, 04:35 PM
The Masters Cup, if anything...

CEvertFan
04-05-2008, 05:18 PM
The main reason that Miami (formerly known as the Lipton International Players Championship among other names) has been referred to as the "5th Slam" is because both the men and the women play there together at the same time like they do at the Slams. Also, it has always drawn all the top players, both men and women, year after year.

Indian Wells now has both the men and women playing together simultaneously, but back in the day the women used to play one week and then the men would play the week after like they still do in Rome.

CyBorg
04-05-2008, 05:28 PM
The Masters is the fifth most important event, but the format is too different for it to be considered the fifth major.

aceroberts13
04-05-2008, 05:30 PM
Tennis Masters Cup; but Dubai has the capability of creating some rediculous draws in the future.

stormholloway
04-05-2008, 05:35 PM
Miami has some of the most classless crowds I've ever witnessed. Example: some jerk screaming during Gonzo's serve at a crucial point in the match. I see this time and time again. It's a huge tournament though, no doubt.

My pick is Rome, formerly the Italian Open. I think it's the 'other' great clay court tournament. We already have two slams on hard courts. There are many prestigious clay court tournaments but out of all the Masters on clay the one in Rome is tops.

tennisfa
04-05-2008, 05:46 PM
i think there really should be a 5th slam in Asia and citys like shanghai, hongkong or tokyo.... there should also be a new surface(maybe a soft one that can prevent injuries).......

Nadal_Freak
04-05-2008, 06:20 PM
TMC should not be the 5th Slam as we got enough fast surfaces as slams already. Miami or Indian Wells should be that.

gj011
04-05-2008, 06:24 PM
There is no 5th slam. 4 is enough.

Andres
04-05-2008, 06:50 PM
I've never thought of a Masters event in Russia, but that would make a lot of sense to me. :D
Specially when they're the main powerhouse in women's tennis, and one of the top 5 powerhouses in men's tennis.

jmsx521
04-05-2008, 06:59 PM
Indian Wells got more votes than Miami!?

ScovilleJenkins
04-05-2008, 07:02 PM
newport hands down

tenis
04-05-2008, 07:06 PM
Well, after the "slam", the fifth is: Pacific life open at INDIAN WELLS!!!!

chiru
04-05-2008, 07:21 PM
I don't see the masters cup up there. that's gotta be considered the most imp tourney outside of the slams (ive never really gotten behind the whole '5th slam' rhetoric) due to who's playing, its overall prestige over the years (formerly the year ending champs, and formerly "THE masters"). as a result, i didnt vote. i like to think of the rest of the masters tourneys as equals. sure, ini my yes they have varying degrees of prestive, with imo miami being the single biggest event historically of the 9, but i still think its a bit unfair to pick any one.

1970CRBase
04-05-2008, 07:44 PM
I would like to see an all-wood slam, played outdoors on wood with wooden racquets which must be 100% wood, no composites or reinforced frames.

They can use treated wood that does not shrink or warp for the surface.

(and then some players will boycott the event and say that wood is only for furniture....)

johnny ballgame
04-05-2008, 07:45 PM
Key Biscayne has always had the highest event prize money outside of the slams (still does). It's the 5th slam in my mind.

NicolasH
04-05-2008, 07:50 PM
In the old days perhaps the Masters when it was played in NYC. Other than that, none.

miniRafa386
04-05-2008, 07:51 PM
i think rome as the "5th" slam cause it has more prestige than the other masters imo

gj011
04-05-2008, 07:54 PM
In the old days perhaps the Masters when it was played in NYC. Other than that, none.

There is already one slam in NYC.

CanadianChic
04-05-2008, 07:57 PM
I don't consider any other tournaments as there are only four slams. No matter how many times you cross your arms, close your eyes and nod, there will remain only four slams.

NicolasH
04-05-2008, 07:58 PM
Well technically it's in Queens... but I get your point.

I just think there was something about the old Master at the Garden. It was a big deal to get there, only the top 8 made it. The round robin format in the early rounds was different, the singles only court etc. It felt different and special (kinda like the Grand Slam Tournaments).

Apart from that, is there a tournament now where every round is played best of 5? That really sets the GS apart.

Cheers,
n.

johnny ballgame
04-05-2008, 08:03 PM
Well technically it's in Queens... but I get your point.


...and Queens is technically in New York City.

NicolasH
04-05-2008, 08:08 PM
...and Queens is technically in New York City.

Touche.

Cheers,
n.

luckyboy1300
04-05-2008, 08:35 PM
well for me miami is more worth it. in terms of the number of players in the draw the IW and miami stand out, but in terms of prize money miami has more. although both the tourneys suck when it comes to tv coverage.

stormholloway
04-05-2008, 08:37 PM
I don't see the masters cup up there. that's gotta be considered the most imp tourney outside of the slams (ive never really gotten behind the whole '5th slam' rhetoric) due to who's playing, its overall prestige over the years (formerly the year ending champs, and formerly "THE masters"). as a result, i didnt vote. i like to think of the rest of the masters tourneys as equals. sure, ini my yes they have varying degrees of prestive, with imo miami being the single biggest event historically of the 9, but i still think its a bit unfair to pick any one.

How is it the biggest historically? It's only been around for like 20 years. The Italian Open was around in the 1930s.

I like Rome's stadium the best.

superman1
04-05-2008, 08:54 PM
Nevertheless, the Masters Cup is the 5th biggest tournament, unless you count the Olympics. I don't consider it a 5th Slam though, but it is significant. Everyone remembers who wins the Masters Cup, but no one really remembers exactly who won each Masters Shield.

chiru
04-05-2008, 08:59 PM
How is it the biggest historically? It's only been around for like 20 years. The Italian Open was around in the 1930s.

I like Rome's stadium the best.

Not in terms of how long its history is, but in terms of how many top players have been consistently showing up for the last couple decades.

Andres
04-05-2008, 09:26 PM
How is it the biggest historically? It's only been around for like 20 years. The Italian Open was around in the 1930s.

I like Rome's stadium the best.
20 years = 1988 ;)
The Masters is a biiiiiit older than that ;)

Tshooter
04-06-2008, 01:13 AM
"as I consider all of the masters tournaments fairly equal "

You may but neither the players nor their agents do. A good measure is to look at who shows up. That would make Miami the "5th slam." Some of the other Masters Events are really second tier like Monte-Carlo. Heck of a nice place to play though.

PCXL-Fan
04-06-2008, 01:37 AM
How couple the OP not have TMC in this poll?

Its like having a poll asking who is the greatest tennis player of the current generation without including Federer as an option.

AndrewD
04-06-2008, 03:03 AM
I have always felt that Rome, Pacific Life, and Miami have always been the other biggest tournaments outside of the Slams. I was wondering what everyone else thought....

The biggest tournament outside of the 4 majors is the Davis Cup. Apart from that, there isn't any other event which comes remotely close (I'm not including the Masters due to its format). If I had to choose another one it would come from either the Italian Open (Rome), London/Queen's Club or Hamburg but absolutely not the Pacific Life or Miami. They're just two American events with a lot of money but not much history or significance.

VikingSamurai
04-06-2008, 03:41 AM
Maybe the Olympics should be classed as the 5th slam?. The fact it is only played every 4 years makes it worth its weight in gold, and the host country and surface change to suit...

veroniquem
04-06-2008, 04:45 AM
I can't believe so many people voted for IW. What would be the rationale for that? Miami has always carried a little more prestige even though they're both very important. What is Dubai doing in the list? It's not even a master series!

veroniquem
04-06-2008, 04:50 AM
The biggest tournament outside of the 4 majors is the Davis Cup. Apart from that, there isn't any other event which comes remotely close (I'm not including the Masters due to its format). If I had to choose another one it would come from either the Italian Open (Rome), London/Queen's Club or Hamburg but absolutely not the Pacific Life or Miami. They're just two American events with a lot of money but not much history or significance.
Davis cup is in a different category all together: different format, stakes, team vs individual... I don't think you can compare it to the other tournaments, like the olympics, they 're completely apart, not like the regular tour.

veroniquem
04-06-2008, 04:51 AM
Well, after the "slam", the fifth is: Pacific life open at INDIAN WELLS!!!!
Can you justify that or is it completely arbitrary?

makhan10
04-06-2008, 06:11 AM
Rome, Monte Carlo and Miami

daddy
04-06-2008, 06:35 AM
Masters cup would get my wote but since it is only for top 8 players, I dont know. I really dont consider any of the other tournaments as big as any GS event.

PROTENNIS63
04-06-2008, 07:23 AM
Maybe the Olympics should be classed as the 5th slam?. The fact it is only played every 4 years makes it worth its weight in gold, and the host country and surface change to suit...

Olympics cannot be a 5th slam since it only happens once every four years. Besides, the ATP don't even make the rules as far as I know.

CEvertFan
04-06-2008, 07:46 AM
Like I said before the Miami tournament was called the "5th Slam" because at the time it was the ONLY other tournament where the men and women played side by side like they do at the Slams. That doesn't mean it is more important or prestigious than any other Masters Series/Tier 1 tournament.

Wuornos
04-06-2008, 10:57 AM
if there is a number 5, it has to be the masters (cup)...

I agree, but I don't feel there should be. Tradition is agreat thing and changes make comparison between players and different era more difficult.

Personally I see the EYC as being a rung below thwe majors and one above the master series events for men and Tier 1 events for women.

I wouldn't like to see this change.

Regards

Tim

stormholloway
04-06-2008, 11:35 AM
20 years = 1988 ;)
The Masters is a biiiiiit older than that ;)

Well on Wikipedia it only shows champions going back about 20 years. For Rome it shows champions going back 70-80 years.

The first tournament was held in February of 1985 at Laver's International Tennis Resort at Delray Beach, Florida.

Yeah, it's a bit older than that... like 3 years.

Andres
04-06-2008, 01:39 PM
Well on Wikipedia it only shows champions going back about 20 years. For Rome it shows champions going back 70-80 years.

Yeah, it's a bit older than that... like 3 years.
I'm sorry? When we say 'the Masters' ... we meant the Masters Cup!!!

The event is actually the third evolution of a championship which began in 1970. It was originally known simply as The Masters tournament, and was organised by the International Tennis Federation (ITF).
The Masters was a year-end showpiece event between the best players on the men's tour, but did not count for any world ranking points. In 1990, the Association of Tennis Professionals (ATP) took over the running of the men's tour and replaced the Masters with the ATP Tour World Championship.

;)

robin7
04-06-2008, 01:41 PM
Indian Wells and Miami.

Andres
04-06-2008, 01:41 PM
Storm, sorry. I just re-readed the post you quoted. The whole post talks about the Masters Cup, while the last sentence (the one you quoted), talks about Miami. I thought you were talking about TMC

My bad :p

JW10S
04-06-2008, 01:44 PM
In my view there is no '5th Slam'. No other tournaments have draws as big as the 4 Slams, the same total prize money, have mixed doubles, are played over 2 full weeks, or carry the same tradition and prestige. It's like asking 'what is the 2nd World Cup?'

stormholloway
04-06-2008, 01:52 PM
Storm, sorry. I just re-readed the post you quoted. The whole post talks about the Masters Cup, while the last sentence (the one you quoted), talks about Miami. I thought you were talking about TMC

My bad :p

No, but in my opinion, the 5th biggest tournament is the Masters for sure. It can't be compared to the slams because of the limited draw and round robin format.

daddy
04-06-2008, 01:55 PM
"as I consider all of the masters tournaments fairly equal "

You may but neither the players nor their agents do. A good measure is to look at who shows up. That would make Miami the "5th slam." Some of the other Masters Events are really second tier like Monte-Carlo. Heck of a nice place to play though.

Last time I checked this is not how they are ranked. You get 500 points for each of them if you win ? ;)

Anyways aside our personal opinion on this one, the only one which was considered to be the 5th slam was Miami because it was ment to be. Nowdays none of them is although Miami has 96 players main draw and most of the time top 49 out of 50 show up. Similarly to IW these days.

Andres
04-06-2008, 06:34 PM
Last time I checked this is not how they are ranked. You get 500 points for each of them if you win ? ;)

Anyways aside our personal opinion on this one, the only one which was considered to be the 5th slam was Miami because it was ment to be. Nowdays none of them is although Miami has 96 players main draw and most of the time top 49 out of 50 show up. Similarly to IW these days.
Miami is considered the 5th slam because of the 96p-draw, and because it's the non-slam event with the biggest prize money. It's the closest to a Slam you could get :)

ledor
04-06-2008, 07:38 PM
my vote for Indian Wells.