PDA

View Full Version : Looking ahead to USA vs. Spain, should Andy and James really get the call?


flyer
04-13-2008, 04:27 PM
OK, I know Andy and James are and have been staples of the US Davis Cup team for the last couple years and they make a great team. But Im being realistic Roddick is pretty bad and Blake is absolutely horrid on the red stuff. Is it really in the best interest of the team that they are the two singles players because I give Andy about a 5% chance against Nadal on clay, and maybe about 15-20% against whoever else he would play. I give Blake almost a 0% percent chance against any Spaniard he would play on clay. So.......Is is reasonable to say that if Domald Young keeps progressing, as slow as it may be and maybe reaches somewhere around the top 50 maybe, just maybe he should get the call. I don't really know about his clay court game be I think his style is much better adapted to clay, the solid, consistent strokes off both wings, even if they are girly and the better than average foot speed and defense. Roddick I would say has earned his Davis Cup stripes more than Blake and I think is also a slightly better player on clay and just in general, so I think that if all goes as anticipated Young, Roddick, and the Bryans is the team that gives the US the best chance to make the Davis Cup final. I know would be quite a bold move for PMac and the US would still be huge underdogs but its going to take something because I see know way in all heck that Roddick and Blake could beat the Spanish team on clay in Spain.

Nadal_Freak
04-13-2008, 04:32 PM
It doesn't matter who they throw out there. Beating Spain on clay is virtually impossible.

stormholloway
04-13-2008, 04:36 PM
Why does Spain get to choose the surface?

flyer
04-13-2008, 04:39 PM
^^^Because they get the tie in their country so they get to choose the venue and the surface. US got the same option last year against them. If your asking how they choose who gets the tie at home I have no clue, they have some system of doing so that was never explained to me, its complicated though to say the least

gully
04-13-2008, 04:41 PM
If your asking how they choose who gets the tie at home I have no clue, they have some system of doing so that was never explained to me, its complicated though to say the leastThey take turns. (Not TOO complicated.)

leonidas1982
04-13-2008, 04:44 PM
Home advantage alternates; at the very beginning it was decided by a coin toss. When next Spain and the USA play, the US will have home advantage and get to choose the surface.

slice bh compliment
04-13-2008, 04:46 PM
Who else do we have? Querrey? Kendrick? Fish? Delic? All really more suited to faster courts. Who is good on a slower court? All I can think of is Ginepri, and that makes me nervous.

Blake, Courier, Agassi and Chang FTW!

Kidding. Roddick and James will have to make the necessary adjustments to sneak off with two singles matches over a Ferru or a Verdasco. Maybe work Raf over enough on Friday and catch him sore on the Sunday.

I think 3-2 for ESP, but of course, I'm hoping for a 3-2 win for us.

Fedace
04-13-2008, 04:46 PM
Donald Young ???????????????? Wow, i think he is talented and all but on clay, i am not sure, if he even knows how to move on clay, nevermind actually play on it. ??? We might as well bring back old Harold Solomon to play than donald>....

flyer
04-13-2008, 04:50 PM
^^^ Yes I understand Young isnt a dirt baller but the "talented and all but on clay, i am not sure, if he even knows how to move on clay, nevermind actually play on it" quote of yours perfectly describes Blake and Roddick, Roddick's serve is completely neutralized as is Blakes forehand and Blake is way to aggressive and way, way to mentally weak for clay

daddy
04-13-2008, 04:50 PM
That is why Sampras/Agassi/Courier generation was insane. You get to choose them on any surface home or away and there you go.

Nadal_Freak
04-13-2008, 04:50 PM
Who else do we have? Querrey? Kendrick? Fish? Delic? All really more suited to faster courts. Who is good on a slower court? All I can think of is Ginepri, and that makes me nervous.

Blake, Courier, Agassi and Chang FTW!

Kidding. Roddick and James will have to make the necessary adjustments to sneak off with two singles matches over a Ferru or a Verdasco. Maybe work Raf over enough on Friday and catch him sore on the Sunday.

I think 3-2 for ESP, but of course, I'm hoping for a 3-2 win for us.
It's going to be Nadal and Ferrer and I can't see either of them losing. Nadal will demolish Roddick or Blake on clay. I'm looking forward to this. :twisted:

flyer
04-13-2008, 04:53 PM
It's going to be Nadal and Ferrer and I can't see either of them losing. Nadal will demolish Roddick or Blake on clay. I'm looking forward to this. :twisted:

Haha yes Nadal will, but maybe just maybe Young gives the US a better chance to beat whoever else they throw out there, I know its a reach either way so why not give it a shot, Young's game is def 10 times better adapted to clay than Blakes

Aeropro master
04-13-2008, 04:54 PM
good post... i don't think young is experienced on clay, but i think whoever plays singles for usa is screwed...

Fedace
04-13-2008, 04:58 PM
^^^ Yes I understand Young isnt a dirt baller but the "talented and all but on clay, i am not sure, if he even knows how to move on clay, nevermind actually play on it" quote of yours perfectly describes Blake and Roddick, Roddick's serve is completely neutralized as is Blakes forehand and Blake is way to aggressive and way, way to mentally weak for clay

I agree that Blake bites on clay courts. but Andy Roddick can still play and prove to be useful. Andy's serve is still effective on clay. I remember Andy serving and volleying against Rafa during davis cup few years back and he got the set into the tiebreaker. and during the french open, we will find out if any of the other boys can prove themselves on the clay courts. Likes of Ginepri or Fish could prove themselves to be better than Blake.:)

flyer
04-13-2008, 05:01 PM
I agree that Blake bites on clay courts. but Andy Roddick can still play and prove to be useful. Andy's serve is still effective on clay. I remember Andy serving and volleying against Rafa during davis cup few years back and he got the set into the tiebreaker. and during the french open, we will find out if any of the other boys can prove themselves on the clay courts. Likes of Ginepri or Fish could prove themselves to be better than Blake.:)

Fish moves about as well as a statue, maybe Ginepri if he keeps up the hard work and consistent results, I still think by that time on clay Young gives them a better chance to win than Blake, and yes I agree as I stated that Roddick should be there

daddy
04-13-2008, 05:02 PM
``I know it's not convenient for us. I know we're not going to be the favorites,'' Roddick said. ``But I know we're going to go and we're going to try. The thing about this team is we don't play when it's convenient. That's probably different from some of the other countries.''

This alone would buy him a place in my team. Blake goes along with him, as a talisman.

Nadal_Freak
04-13-2008, 05:03 PM
I agree that Blake bites on clay courts. but Andy Roddick can still play and prove to be useful. Andy's serve is still effective on clay. I remember Andy serving and volleying against Rafa during davis cup few years back and he got the set into the tiebreaker. and during the french open, we will find out if any of the other boys can prove themselves on the clay courts. Likes of Ginepri or Fish could prove themselves to be better than Blake.:)
Like I said, I can't wait to see Roddick/Nadal on clay courts. I think this time it won't be that close. Roddick was a better player on clay 4 years ago as well as Rafa isn't close to the clay player that he is now.

schaefferm46
04-13-2008, 05:14 PM
i would say Michael Russell would be a good choice on clay. He is one of the better clay players.

RoddickistheMan
04-13-2008, 05:21 PM
I think ginepri would be better on clay than blake since his game has more topspin and also relies more on movment rather than outright winners. However mentally I think blake and roddick would fare better against nadal and ferrer since they are ranked higher and have been playing better tennis overall.

Nadal_Freak
04-13-2008, 05:25 PM
Even if Ginepri might be a better decision, I don't think it is smart to upset Blake by not playing him. It probably won't matter anyways as Spain has 3 of the top 10 clay courters in the world.

NLBwell
04-13-2008, 05:29 PM
How many ATP matches has Donald Young won on Clay?
Ginepri? Maybe, well see whether he does better than Blake this clay season. Actually, the same goes for Young; if he wins the German Open or something, then put him in. I don't think it will happen, though.

Tennis_Monk
04-13-2008, 05:30 PM
Like I said, I can't wait to see Roddick/Nadal on clay courts. I think this time it won't be that close. Roddick was a better player on clay 4 years ago as well as Rafa isn't close to the clay player that he is now.

You must be kidding right?. These days We dont see American men in French open after day 2 and you think Roddick's game improved?

No offense to Roddick. He beat Federer and his Hard court game is definitely top class but on Clay he doesnt stand a chance.

As far as Rafael Nadal's game , He doesnt need his A game to beat Roddick on Clay. He can do it with his B or C game.

Nadal_Freak
04-13-2008, 05:36 PM
You must be kidding right?. These days We dont see American men in French open after day 2 and you think Roddick's game improved?

No offense to Roddick. He beat Federer and his Hard court game is definitely top class but on Clay he doesnt stand a chance.

As far as Rafael Nadal's game , He doesnt need his A game to beat Roddick on Clay. He can do it with his B or C game.
Read my post again.

WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis
04-13-2008, 06:28 PM
Considering they both seem to have a great attitude about playing Davis Cup, and the results recently have been good, I don't see why not. Blake made a good comment about his feelings about playing for Davis Cup, and I summarize: "On tour a player has to only account to themselves if they lose a match. But playing in Davis Cup, you really have to go out there and do your best knowing that you do have an accounting to a team and others expecting you to play your best."

Just watching vs. France, I understand blister problems etc. but sometimes it seems clear that some other players just don't take the honor and depth of playing for their country as deeply as others: convenient excuses and non-commital/casual attitudes. Andy and James seem to have a great and competitive spirit, yet it's respectful to others competitive spirit when playing for their country. Honestly I root for other countries, say Russia, which is my own, or Germany, which is my home, but for sheer drive, USA is really good.

Challenger
04-13-2008, 06:31 PM
It's wishful thinking, but USA does have a shot if they get lucky against Spain's #2. Bryan Bros will probably win the doubles, and if Roddick and Blake can miraculously steal wins from Ferrer or whoever else not named "Nadal", then it's possible.

In all likeliness, it won't happen, but if USA manages to pull this off over in Spain on clay, I will laugh my *** off.

flyer
04-13-2008, 06:34 PM
Considering they both seem to have a great attitude about playing Davis Cup, and the results recently have been good, I don't see why not. Blake made a good comment about his feelings about playing for Davis Cup, and I summarize: "On tour a player has to only account to themselves if they lose a match. But playing in Davis Cup, you really have to go out there and do your best knowing that you do have an accounting to a team and others expecting you to play your best."

Just watching vs. France, I understand blister problems etc. but sometimes it seems clear that some other players just don't take the honor and depth of playing for their country as deeply as others: convenient excuses and non-commital/casual attitudes. Andy and James seem to have a great and competitive spirit, yet it's respectful to others competitive spirit when playing for their country. Honestly I root for other countries, say Russia, which is my own, or Germany, which his my home, but for sheer drive, USA is really good.

great contribution.....but do you think Blake and Roddick give them the best chance on clay against Spain? I think by that time they do not, I think Young would make a better clay courter by that time than Blake, again Im assuming Young will continue his slow rise up the rankings and we'll see how he plays during the clay season but his game is much better adapted than either Andy or Blake to clay.

WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis
04-13-2008, 06:41 PM
great contribution.....but do you think Blake and Roddick give them the best chance on clay against Spain? I think by that time they do not, I think Young would make a better clay courter by that time than Blake, again Im assuming Young will continue his slow rise up the rankings and we'll see how he plays during the clay season but his game is much better adapted than either Andy or Blake to clay.

No, I don't think Roddick has the best chance among those mentioned to get a win on clay. Yet at the same time, can't fault his fight and spirit, and with his improvements lately, I wouldn't count him out. But true, a head coach can't base his decisions on that.

Yes, Donald's game might be better adapted, but he's yet to prove (granted has yet to be given a chance to prove) his ability in Davis Cup. Depends on whether the crown is wanted again. Give others a chance or stay with known reliables? For "4th quarter TD's", as a coach I would stay with James and Andy. Rather a live or die situation. We'll see though. Spain will be extremely tough on clay.

Djokovicfan4life
04-13-2008, 07:18 PM
While I don't care for Roddick or Blake's game, I have to say that they're the best American players right now, regardless of surface. Donald Young would be nothing short of hilarious, would he even be able to get a racquet on their high bouncing topspin shots? Kind of hard to win a best of five set match when you can't even reach the ball.

Stchamps
04-13-2008, 07:20 PM
You must be kidding right?. These days We dont see American men in French open after day 2 and you think Roddick's game improved?

No offense to Roddick. He beat Federer and his Hard court game is definitely top class but on Clay he doesnt stand a chance.

As far as Rafael Nadal's game , He doesnt need his A game to beat Roddick on Clay. He can do it with his B or C game.

The guy said Roddick is worse now on clay and Nadal is a lot better now, so next time they play on clay, their match won't be close (Nadal will win easy).

gj011
04-13-2008, 08:26 PM
Courier and Chang should play for US. They would have more chances against Spain then Jerk and Blake.

quest01
04-13-2008, 08:56 PM
I wouldn't count Roddick or Blake out in beating Nadal even on clay. Blake has had some success against Nadal even though Nadal has had a recent edge over him and also Roddick took Nadal out in Dubai so anything is possible.

I think the US will beat Spain on clay.

Nadal_Freak
04-13-2008, 09:23 PM
I wouldn't count Roddick or Blake out in beating Nadal even on clay. Blake has had some success against Nadal even though Nadal has had a recent edge over him and also Roddick took Nadal out in Dubai so anything is possible.

I think the US will beat Spain on clay.
:lol: Want to bet on that?

flyer
04-13-2008, 09:25 PM
I wouldn't count Roddick or Blake out in beating Nadal even on clay. Blake has had some success against Nadal even though Nadal has had a recent edge over him and also Roddick took Nadal out in Dubai so anything is possible.

I think the US will beat Spain on clay.

realllllllllllly do you, haha, at least your optimistic

spikyblackhair
04-13-2008, 09:48 PM
It doesn't matter who they throw out there. Beating Spain on clay is virtually impossible.

'Nuff said.

welcome2petrkordaland
04-13-2008, 10:39 PM
it was nice to see this thread. i was just talking to a friend about this. Sure, there's a lot of time between now and then-I think September is when it is. but unless blake and roddick have better results on clay in Houston and during the European clay season, I can't see how pmac could play 'em. you know he will though.

I say play Ginepri, if he continues to play well, like he has this year. When he's playing well and believes, he has solid strokes, can fly around the court, and is a smart, more strategic player. He also lives in Marietta, GA, where hardtru courts abound and he's played on the dirt more than other Americans. His serve is good when he's playing well-better than ferrer's and nadal's, so who knows.

fish and even young may also work, depending on their respective years as well as their clay court results.

but blake's flat power game and roddick's slightly better but realistically speaking mediocre lateral movement spell disaster on the clay against quick dirt ballers like nadal, ferrer, ferrero, robredo, moya, almagro, etc. esp. in a 3 of 5. fuggitaboutit. it'll be good night irene, for sure if we go w/ blake and roddick, guaranteed. so why not take a chance w/ someone more suited to clay?

pmac, don't be stubborn, stupid, and/or worried about messing with blake's and roddicks' egos. make a smart decision.

maverick66
04-13-2008, 11:45 PM
I wouldn't count Roddick or Blake out in beating Nadal even on clay. Blake has had some success against Nadal even though Nadal has had a recent edge over him and also Roddick took Nadal out in Dubai so anything is possible.

all on hard courts. nadal on clay is a much different player. on hard courts hes forcing the play and is not comfortable yet still makes finals and wins tournies. on clay he is a beast. the guy is nearly unbeatable on the dirt. spain will put it in a sand pit again like they did before and now nadal is better. even if spain shows up with robredo,ferrer, ferrero, or moya whey are heavily favored.

superman1
04-14-2008, 12:06 AM
I wouldn't get rid of either of them.

Roddick needs to serve and volley against Nadal. He won't, but he has absolutely zero chance of winning from the baseline. The only guy to beat Borg at the French Open was a serve and volleyer. It would give Roddick a hint of a chance, since Nadal isn't the greatest returner.

Blake is fast, he has good strokes from both sides. He beat Almagro on clay, almost beat Monfils. Nadal has a lot of respect for Blake. I don't see him winning, but he might be able to tire Nadal out at the very least. It's certainly a tough game for Nadal to handle, I think even on clay.

TennisandMusic
04-14-2008, 12:46 AM
I wouldn't get rid of either of them.

Roddick needs to serve and volley against Nadal. He won't, but he has absolutely zero chance of winning from the baseline. The only guy to beat Borg at the French Open was a serve and volleyer. It would give Roddick a hint of a chance, since Nadal isn't the greatest returner.

Blake is fast, he has good strokes from both sides. He beat Almagro on clay, almost beat Monfils. Nadal has a lot of respect for Blake. I don't see him winning, but he might be able to tire Nadal out at the very least. It's certainly a tough game for Nadal to handle, I think even on clay.

Man, no disrespect but...Roddick needs to serve and volley against Nadal? Blake will tire out Nadal on Clay? This seems entirely backwards to me.

superman1
04-14-2008, 01:19 AM
Roddick needs to serve and volley because he can't win from the baseline. Even if he doesn't play pure serve/volley, he needs to at least get to net as much as he can and make Nadal hit the tough shots (that he's pretty damn good at hitting). Blake probably can't win against Nadal, but hopefully he can tire him out a little before he faces Roddick.

So basically, the US has no chance.

RedWeb
04-14-2008, 05:15 AM
If they want to go then P Mac will take the the current team. You dance with who brought you. It would insult to them if that where not the case.

coloskier
04-14-2008, 06:27 AM
One thing not being mentioned is the fact that because of the timing of the Davis Cup, there is a good chance that Nadal could get injured again and not be able to play. But even then, with Ferrer and Moya you still have to beat two very good clay court players. I think that Roddick can still beat Ferrer, but I see the USA going down 3-2.

flyer
04-14-2008, 07:32 AM
Roddick needs to serve and volley because he can't win from the baseline. Even if he doesn't play pure serve/volley, he needs to at least get to net as much as he can and make Nadal hit the tough shots (that he's pretty damn good at hitting). Blake probably can't win against Nadal, but hopefully he can tire him out a little before he faces Roddick.

So basically, the US has no chance.

Right they have no chance as you just admitted, but do they have a slightly, slightly better chance if say, Young plays in place of Blake, even if they do not win it he will still get valuable experience and a chance to show what hes made of

As far as you thinking Blake will were Nadal out on clay I'd have to disagree greatly, it would be the other way around, Blake would get worn out both physically and especially mentally, Blake would wear himself out taking those huge cuts that would just keep coming back, it would be a blood bath, we have seen it before with the players that beat Nadal on hardcourts, Berdych, Youhzny, they all take a pounding on clay to Nadal

Roddick at least has a clay title on his resume even if it was years ago and he has proved his Davis Cup worth, he is the stronghold of the US team, so I think it should really be Roddcik and Young, I think they give them the best chance to win even if that chance is still no chance at all

Can anybody comment on how Young is on clay? His game is more well adapted to clay than any other top American so can anybody provide us with any details?

Djokovicfan4life
04-14-2008, 07:36 AM
I wouldn't get rid of either of them.

Roddick needs to serve and volley against Nadal. He won't, but he has absolutely zero chance of winning from the baseline. The only guy to beat Borg at the French Open was a serve and volleyer. It would give Roddick a hint of a chance, since Nadal isn't the greatest returner.

Blake is fast, he has good strokes from both sides. He beat Almagro on clay, almost beat Monfils. Nadal has a lot of respect for Blake. I don't see him winning, but he might be able to tire Nadal out at the very least. It's certainly a tough game for Nadal to handle, I think even on clay.

Roddick's serve is too fast for serve and volley, the ball would be on its way back before he even took the first step towards the net. That plus he volley skills and you have a triple bagel.

NickC
04-14-2008, 07:51 AM
Roddick is alright on clay. Remember that match against Tursanov a few years back? The one that ended like 19-17 or 21-19 in the fifth set?

Blake has made it to the third or fourth round of the French, but he still has to prove himself on clay.

Young has the game to compete with Spain. Didn't he get really far in the French Open Juniors a few years back? Also, he needs to get the call based off the fact that Spain has 3 left handers on their team, and the US only has 1. The left handed game is usually based off exploiting the right handed player's inability to react to the lefty spins. Young doesn't have to overcome this barrier.

And while we're at it, why not Isner? His spins on his serve are top notch (which help a TON, we all know what his kick serve is capable of, and on clay with the high bounce that thing would be unstoppable), and I think his height would, if anything, neutralize the high spinny shots that Nadal hits. And if he does well in Houston this week, wouldn't he deserve a look?

el sergento
04-14-2008, 08:03 AM
Donald Young would be nothing short of hilarious, would he even be able to get a racquet on their high bouncing topspin shots? Kind of hard to win a best of five set match when you can't even reach the ball.

I agree 100%. Donald Young got spanked on a slow hard court by Nadal at the PLO. On a hard court I wouldn't pick him to beat any Spaniard in the top 100, except maybe against Verdasco if he's having an off day or is hung over. It goes without saying that on clay Young would get bageled by the second set, no matter who he's playing, simply out of fatigue and from being overpowered. I'd pick Blake any day over Young; Blake would most likely loose of course, but he wouldn't loose as badly as Young.

The US's only chance at beating Spain is Roddick winning both his matches and the B'Bros winning a match for a change.

Roddick serving lights out can beat anybody on any surface other than clay, on clay he can beat around 70-75% of the field on a good day.

Roddick on clay is 64-31 with 5 titles. Blake is a dismal 31-34 and no titles, but that's still 64 matches more on clay than Young who's 0-1 on the red stuff.

GRANITECHIEF
04-14-2008, 08:06 AM
Young up against qualifier Fernando Vincente starting soon.

This will be the first indication about Young's clay court game for me.

Maybe Blake and Young will get to play in Houston, which would be telling. I think Blake would beat em.

CGMemphis
04-14-2008, 08:10 AM
I find most of this conversation funny and somewhat pointless.

The US played against Austria on clay and Roddick beat Melzer and looked just fine on clay.

Blake is no slouch on the surface either beating Koubek during that Davis Cup round.

Granted these are not Nadal and the other Spai***** we are facing, but Young?

More uneducated, what if, your "dream/favorite tennis player crush" talk. Yes we have our work cut out for us, and its ok to dream on the internet, but I really doubt the fantasies hold water in the real world.

Everyone has to step on the same clay and bring their A game for both the US and Spain, both sides have no slouches. Dont forget that clay can either enhance or detract from the pace and thats what they have to adjust too, both sides.

Come back to reality Bueller.

RedWeb
04-14-2008, 08:10 AM
...and the B'Bros winning a match for a change..


Huh?... Bryans are 13-2 in Davis Cup.

Shaolin
04-14-2008, 08:14 AM
Hugo Armando and Donald Young vs Spain. You heard it here first :)

vandre
04-14-2008, 08:17 AM
Who else do we have? Querrey? Kendrick? Fish? Delic? All really more suited to faster courts. Who is good on a slower court? All I can think of is Ginepri, and that makes me nervous.



exactly! that's all ole mother hubbard has in the cupboard. the bullpen is empty and there are no other options at this point. the tie against austria had some nervous moments in it and the spanish are some much better on clay than the austrians (the court surface in spain should be better too/ can't be any worse!). i think the US DC team is walking into a pwning!

el sergento
04-14-2008, 08:18 AM
Huh?... Bryans are 13-2 in Davis Cup.

Yeah, but they're not playing well this year and just lost at home to the French. Granted the French team was highly skilled and had beat them before but still, they're not a sure thing like they used to be.

flyer
04-14-2008, 08:32 AM
I find most of this conversation funny and somewhat pointless.

The US played against Austria on clay and Roddick beat Melzer and looked just fine on clay.

Blake is no slouch on the surface either beating Koubek during that Davis Cup round.

Granted these are not Nadal and the other Spai***** we are facing, but Young?

More uneducated, what if, your "dream/favorite tennis player crush" talk. Yes we have our work cut out for us, and its ok to dream on the internet, but I really doubt the fantasies hold water in the real world.

Everyone has to step on the same clay and bring their A game for both the US and Spain, both sides have no slouches. Dont forget that clay can either enhance or detract from the pace and thats what they have to adjust too, both sides.

Come back to reality Bueller.

wow you know absolutely nothing, both andy and james are complete bloks on clay, Nadal and Ferrer could bring their C games and still win in strait sets against Blake and Roddick on clay, Melzer and Koubek are average joes I cant even believe you think beating them proves anything, obviously you have never played on clay, you do get the odd bounce sometimes but it is extremely slow

el sergento
04-14-2008, 08:43 AM
wow you know absolutely nothing, both andy and james are complete bloks on clay, Nadal and Ferrer could bring their C games and still win in strait sets against Blake and Roddick on clay, Melzer and Koubek are average joes I cant even believe you think beating them proves anything, obviously you have never played on clay, you do get the odd bounce sometimes but it is extremely slow

Maybe you missed my post:

"Roddick on clay is 64-31 with 5 titles. Blake is a dismal 31-34 and no titles, but that's still 64 matches more on clay than Young who's 0-1 on the red stuff."

Calling a guy with 5 titles on the surface a complete blok (whatever that means) is inaccurate. His serve allows him to be competitive on any surface and other than against Nadal, he stands a moderate to good chance to beat any Spaniard, especially considering that Ferrer and Robredo are not playing well this year.

Blake's record however speaks for itself, as does Young's.

flyer
04-14-2008, 08:48 AM
Maybe you missed my post:

"Roddick on clay is 64-31 with 5 titles. Blake is a dismal 31-34 and no titles, but that's still 64 matches more on clay than Young who's 0-1 on the red stuff."

Calling a guy with 5 titles on the surface a complete blok (whatever that means) is inaccurate. His serve allows him to be competitive on any surface and other than against Nadal, he stands a moderate to good chance to beat any Spaniard, especially considering that Ferrer and Robredo are not playing well this year.

Blake's record however speaks for itself, as does Young's.

righttttt and how long ago were those titles? can you provide was with Roddick's record on clay in five set matches? he stinks on clay, and stands no chance against top 10 players (Nadal, Ferrer) on their best surface and his worst

Next, maybe you missed my post, I said Roddick should play because he has been the strong hold of the US team and has proven his Davis Cup value, what I said is it should be Roddcik and Young. Got it buddy?

Topaz
04-14-2008, 08:52 AM
Like most have said, the US will certainly be the underdogs, but other than Blake and Roddick, who else would you have play? To think of choosing someone other than those two for singles is laughable. Both Blake and Roddick have a chance against whoever is Spain's #2. I don't give them really any chance against Nadal, but who says Rafa will even show up to play for Spain?

Regardless, Blake's and Roddick's commitment to DC alone would merit them being on the team IMO.

Should be interesting to see play out.

tacou
04-14-2008, 08:54 AM
yuong will not give the US a better chance at all... I'm thinking this tie is more or less over already.

el sergento
04-14-2008, 09:04 AM
righttttt and how long ago were those titles? can you provide was with Roddick's record on clay in five set matches? he stinks on clay, and stands no chance against top 10 players (Nadal, Ferrer) on their best surface and his worst

Next, maybe you missed my post, I said Roddick should play because he has been the strong hold of the US team and has proven his Davis Cup value, what I said is it should be Roddcik and Young. Got it buddy?

I'm not your buddy, not with that attitude, and saying a guy stinks on clay, like you say Roddick does, despite his record is just ********. How bout YOU substantiate your claims for once and do the work of digging up the stats.

I'm not saying the guy is Muster or Nadal on the surface, but no Spaniard will go into a 5 setter vs. Roddick thinking about how many bagels he's about to serve him. Give credit where credit is due is all I'm saying.

Oh, and playing Young over Blake, as you suggest, is a million times dumber then my suggestion that Roddick doesn't absolutely stink on clay.

It's quite simple buddy, when you can serve at 140mph it doesn't matter what surface you're playing on, a lot of your serves wont come back giving you at least a chance against any opponent on any surface.

Djokovicfan4life
04-14-2008, 09:18 AM
righttttt and how long ago were those titles? can you provide was with Roddick's record on clay in five set matches? he stinks on clay, and stands no chance against top 10 players (Nadal, Ferrer) on their best surface and his worst

Next, maybe you missed my post, I said Roddick should play because he has been the strong hold of the US team and has proven his Davis Cup value, what I said is it should be Roddcik and Young. Got it buddy?

You act as though your solution is so logical and yet you base your hopes on Donald Young. That's laughable, really. I don't like Blake at all but if you think Donald Young has a better chance on clay then your simply being unreasonable.

It's not a good idea to say that people "absolutely know nothing" when you're praising the greatness that is DY on clay.

flyer
04-14-2008, 09:28 AM
I'm not your buddy, not with that attitude, and saying a guy stinks on clay, like you say Roddick does, despite his record is just ********. How bout YOU substantiate your claims for once and do the work of digging up the stats.

I'm not saying the guy is Muster or Nadal on the surface, but no Spaniard will go into a 5 setter vs. Roddick thinking about how many bagels he's about to serve him. Give credit where credit is due is all I'm saying.

Oh, and playing Young over Blake, as you suggest, is a million times dumber then my suggestion that Roddick doesn't absolutely stink on clay.

It's quite simple buddy, when you can serve at 140mph it doesn't matter what surface you're playing on, a lot of your serves wont come back giving you at least a chance against any opponent on any surface.

Ok well Im not going to look it up, but I would bet that Roddick has a losing record on clay in best of fives because it seems like he loses in the first round of the French almost every year, and lost a couple Davis Cup matches, and still with all your defense of Roddick you don't seem to realize I SAID HE SHOULD PLAY!

You act as though your solution is so logical and yet you base your hopes on Donald Young. That's laughable, really. I don't like Blake at all but if you think Donald Young has a better chance on clay then your simply being unreasonable.

It's not a good idea to say that people "absolutely know nothing" when you're praising the greatness that is DY on clay.

I still think they will lose but I think it gives them a better chance, and Im not praising his greatness, show me where I praised his greatness, what I am saying is very reasonable, Donald Youngs game is much better adapted to clay than Blakes, he has consistent ground stokes off both wings and is fast, Blake swings for the fences and on clay those balls keep coming back and eventually he hits an error also he is mentally fragile, whats unreasonable about that, those are facts

NamRanger
04-14-2008, 09:36 AM
Last time Nadal played against Roddick on clay it was fairly close. That was in 2004 when Roddick was at his best, and Nadal was close to where he is now (he actually played with alot more pace off the ground back then).


We'll see what Roddick does. Nadal will probably abuse the lefty spin on Clay to pummel Roddick into submission, but it's not going to be easy for Nadal either. He cannot lapse on his serve at all, and Roddick's kick serve is extremely effective on the clay.


The best bet is to steal wins off of Ferrer and win the doubles. Only way to do it.

Nadal_Freak
04-14-2008, 09:41 AM
Last time Nadal played against Roddick on clay it was fairly close. That was in 2004 when Roddick was at his best, and Nadal was close to where he is now (he actually played with alot more pace off the ground back then).

Wrong. Nadal is way better on clay now. That match put Nadal on the map and he still had some clay losses after that match against Roddick. He lost to Gonzo and Andreev I remember on clay. Last year he destroyed both those players.

Djokovicfan4life
04-14-2008, 09:51 AM
Ok well Im not going to look it up, but I would bet that Roddick has a losing record on clay in best of fives because it seems like he loses in the first round of the French almost every year, and lost a couple Davis Cup matches, and still with all your defense of Roddick you don't seem to realize I SAID HE SHOULD PLAY!



I still think they will lose but I think it gives them a better chance, and Im not praising his greatness, show me where I praised his greatness, what I am saying is very reasonable, Donald Youngs game is much better adapted to clay than Blakes, he has consistent ground stokes off both wings and is fast, Blake swings for the fences and on clay those balls keep coming back and eventually he hits an error also he is mentally fragile, whats unreasonable about that, those are facts

I agree that Blake's mental game is nothing short of horrible, I absolutely despise his game. But didn't DY throw his racquet out of the stadium or something? Not exactly the best way of venting one's frustration.

flyer
04-14-2008, 09:54 AM
I agree that Blake's mental game is nothing short of horrible, I absolutely despise his game. But didn't DY throw his racquet out of the stadium or something? Not exactly the best way of venting one's frustration.

Yes he did, he is a bit of a baby for sure, actually a huge baby but he is still young, Federer was prolly worse than Young that the same stake of their career's, still though his style of play is much more effective on clay than Blakes and if he does pretty good on clay this year, lets say better than Blake and continues his rise up the rankings, as slow as it may be I think he gives them a better chance than Blake against Spain

Djokovicfan4life
04-14-2008, 09:58 AM
Yes he did, he is a bit of a baby for sure, actually a huge baby but he is still young, Federer was prolly worse than Young that the same stake of their career's, still though his style of play is much more effective on clay than Blakes and if he does pretty good on clay this year, lets say better than Blake and continues his rise up the rankings, as slow as it may be I think he gives them a better chance than Blake against Spain

Federer was able to get his anger under control though. All the players could learn something from Fed, just a world class mental game. Maybe when he retires he should coach someone like Blake?

flyer
04-14-2008, 10:10 AM
Federer was able to get his anger under control though. All the players could learn something from Fed, just a world class mental game. Maybe when he retires he should coach someone like Blake?

They might retire within a couple years of each other so prolly not, also I think at first Federer would be to arogent to coach because he wouldn't understand that who ever he is coaching may and prolly will not have the talent and natural ability he does and he would prolly still think he can do it better, and since thing come so natural to him it would be hard to teach something step by step when he really never had to learn it he just kinda got it, I think in time though he would understand players better and realize that not everyone is as blessed as he was and be able to actually teach the game not just do

Iced_jacob
04-14-2008, 10:16 AM
Imagine Roddick's face after he tries to return with his backhand a super-spinning-lefty forehand from Nadal...
That says it all...5-0 Spain with Nadal-Lopez winning the doubles...

Rabbit
04-14-2008, 10:21 AM
I think, putting my Captain Optimistic hat on, that the US has a chance. Not a good chance, but a chance. The US beat a game Austrian team on the same loose quicksand looking dirt that Spain will surely lay down. Granted Roddic went 5 sets with Melzer and Blake went 4 sets with Koubek, but neither of those guys are slouches on clay.

Roddick's results are getting better and Blake is nowhere near as mentally fragile as he used to be. He's winning 5-setters now. Blake really needs a plan "B", especially on clay. You can't expect to out hit your opponent when the surface slows the ball and allows him time to respond.

I agree with some other posts that it will hinge on two factors, the #2 singles for Spain versus both our guys and the doubles. I was extremely surprised to see the Bryans lose on a fast court, and really think they should start giving Prince their money back and go back to their Wilson frames.

Hey, anything can happen, it's Davis Cup! Who'd have ever thought that a guy like Corretja who boycotted Wimbledon every year would've beaten the "King of Grass Sampras" on grass in Houston? This, after Sampras said that the grass courts in Houston were the best this side of Wimbledon and Queens club?

Djokovicfan4life
04-14-2008, 10:23 AM
They might retire within a couple years of each other so prolly not, also I think at first Federer would be to arogent to coach because he wouldn't understand that who ever he is coaching may and prolly will not have the talent and natural ability he does and he would prolly still think he can do it better, and since thing come so natural to him it would be hard to teach something step by step when he really never had to learn it he just kinda got it, I think in time though he would understand players better and realize that not everyone is as blessed as he was and be able to actually teach the game not just do

If you think Fed got to where he is purely by natural talent then you need to stop drinking the bong water.

Sure, talent helps a lot and Federer's hand eye coordination is nothing short of incredible, but the guy worked insanely hard to reach the top. No one gets there from talent alone. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

P.S. I realize that that first comment may sound sort of rude, but I just hate to hear people talking about talent as the main factor in a players success. No offense intended in this post.

CGMemphis
04-14-2008, 10:24 AM
wow you know absolutely nothing, both andy and james are complete bloks on clay, Nadal and Ferrer could bring their C games and still win in strait sets against Blake and Roddick on clay, Melzer and Koubek are average joes I cant even believe you think beating them proves anything, obviously you have never played on clay, you do get the odd bounce sometimes but it is extremely slow

Wow, pretty rash statements there huh flyer?

I know absolutely nothing? Never played on clay, you couldnt be more wrong on either account.

I am not going to turn thisinto a discertation of how to play on clay, the difference between the pack, if its Har-Tru vs crushed brick and the Har_tru has a faster bounce, etc etc etc..Yep Melzer and Koubek, European clay court specialists are just plain "blokes" get it right. The odd bounce sometimes? No sir, thats hitting the tape, the rut, a nail in the tape...its more than an odd bounce.

My issue with threads like this is one, Roddick and Blake have played far more top 10 opponents on clay in their careers versus D Young who is a great up and comer for sure, but mental and physically wouldnt stand a chance.

I prefer rationale over impulse.

I am not a fan of Roddick, but he doesnt suck.

And for the record, its one thing to post and hide behind an internet forum, playing keyboard bully and internet commando, spouting what you will, but have something to back it up, not just make an arrogant post. Opinions are fine, but play civil.

el sergento
04-14-2008, 10:31 AM
Ok well Im not going to look it up, but I would bet that Roddick has a losing record on clay in best of fives because it seems like he loses in the first round of the French almost every year, and lost a couple Davis Cup matches, and still with all your defense of Roddick you don't seem to realize I SAID HE SHOULD PLAY!

I never said anything to the contrary, my only argument has been that Roddick is no where near as bad on clay as you make him out to be; like claiming that any Spanish player would only need their C game to beat him in straights or that he is a blok.

As for Young, something tells me you didn't see his match against Nadal at the PLO. He had zero penetration on his groundies, no weapons whatsoever. Blake on a good serving day can at least win a couple of games and with his return game he can be dangerous against anybody. Young needs weapons, and clay demands weapons more than any other surface because of the slow pace.

As it stands, if anybody i would pick Ginepri over Blake, but certainly not Young.

Djokovicfan4life
04-14-2008, 10:33 AM
I knew that comment would come back to bite you.

NamRanger
04-14-2008, 10:34 AM
Wrong. Nadal is way better on clay now. That match put Nadal on the map and he still had some clay losses after that match against Roddick. He lost to Gonzo and Andreev I remember on clay. Last year he destroyed both those players.


That match didn't put him on the map really, the match that put him on the map was when he completely torched Federer in the opening round at Miami 2004.



I do agree with you he was a better player on clay now though, but I don't think he was that much farther behind in 2004.

chiru
04-14-2008, 10:40 AM
And for the record, its one thing to post and hide behind an internet forum, playing keyboard bully and internet commando, spouting what you will, but have something to back it up, not just make an arrogant post. Opinions are fine, but play civil.

People, behaving civilly, and realizing that they MIGHT be wrong, here? pfffftt yah right!

anyways, quick comment: DY is no where near blake, as a player, on any surface. i dont' care what kind of game he is better suited to etc. blake is a top ten player, he's there because of his hit or miss style on hard courts sure. if you told him to grind with DY (maybe no winners rule), i'm sure he'd still beat him because of how much bigger, stronger, faster, and overall better athlete he is. this is for the present, of course DY has plenty of years to develop all of those things himself.

Djokovicfan4life
04-14-2008, 10:40 AM
Wait a second, Nadal lost to Gonzo? Was he high or something?

Clay is the last surface I would use to describe Gonzo's game. :confused:

el sergento
04-14-2008, 10:44 AM
Wait a second, Nadal lost to Gonzo? Was he high or something?

Clay is the last surface I would use to describe Gonzo's game. :confused:

6 of Gonzo's 9 titles are on clay and he's 123-57 on the stuff...........yeah, I'm equally surprised, but then again, he is South American.

scineram
04-14-2008, 10:53 AM
Absolutely no chance even against Lopez or Verdasco, let alone Ferrer or Moya.

flyer
04-14-2008, 01:48 PM
I never said anything to the contrary, my only argument has been that Roddick is no where near as bad on clay as you make him out to be; like claiming that any Spanish player would only need their C game to beat him in straights or that he is a blok.

As for Young, something tells me you didn't see his match against Nadal at the PLO. He had zero penetration on his groundies, no weapons whatsoever. Blake on a good serving day can at least win a couple of games and with his return game he can be dangerous against anybody. Young needs weapons, and clay demands weapons more than any other surface because of the slow pace.

As it stands, if anybody i would pick Ginepri over Blake, but certainly not Young.

Yeah I actually did see that match, i told me a lot about how far Young has to go, he didnt step up at all and was a baby, he also showed he doesnt have any real weapons, still I think his game is much better adapted to clay than is Blakes and if they are going to lose anyway it would be a good learning experience, you may be onto something with the Genepri thing granted he was a stellar clay season and remains focused.

flyer
04-14-2008, 01:59 PM
If you think Fed got to where he is purely by natural talent then you need to stop drinking the bong water.

Sure, talent helps a lot and Federer's hand eye coordination is nothing short of incredible, but the guy worked insanely hard to reach the top. No one gets there from talent alone. There's no such thing as a free lunch.

P.S. I realize that that first comment may sound sort of rude, but I just hate to hear people talking about talent as the main factor in a players success. No offense intended in this post.

Oh no, no, no believe me I know how hard Federer works/worked, its not all talent, you cant be all talent at the top of the mens game you have to work for it too the level is to high to get by on talent alone, thats not what I was saying, what I was saying is that Federer may get slightly frustrated coaching because his pupil may work just as hard and not get the same results Federer was accustomed to as a player and he would not be able to deal with this or understand why at first, he might not realize that others are not as blessed as he is in that aspect and hence may not be able to handle it because he still might think somehow he can do it better...get what Im saying?

flyer
04-14-2008, 02:06 PM
I think, putting my Captain Optimistic hat on, that the US has a chance. Not a good chance, but a chance. The US beat a game Austrian team on the same loose quicksand looking dirt that Spain will surely lay down. Granted Roddic went 5 sets with Melzer and Blake went 4 sets with Koubek, but neither of those guys are slouches on clay.

Roddick's results are getting better and Blake is nowhere near as mentally fragile as he used to be. He's winning 5-setters now. Blake really needs a plan "B", especially on clay. You can't expect to out hit your opponent when the surface slows the ball and allows him time to respond.

I agree with some other posts that it will hinge on two factors, the #2 singles for Spain versus both our guys and the doubles. I was extremely surprised to see the Bryans lose on a fast court, and really think they should start giving Prince their money back and go back to their Wilson frames.

Hey, anything can happen, it's Davis Cup! Who'd have ever thought that a guy like Corretja who boycotted Wimbledon every year would've beaten the "King of Grass Sampras" on grass in Houston? This, after Sampras said that the grass courts in Houston were the best this side of Wimbledon and Queens club?

Good post, I'd have to disagree though because Blake has not shown the mental fortitude against the top players, such as...Nadal, even though he had his number in the past, when they were in close matches it was Nadal that was able to up his level and in Miami completely wipe him off the court even though it was Blake's best and Nadal's worst surface, also every time he plays Federer he plays for second place and talks about him like hes untouchable, on clay you need the patients and the mental toughness and Blake is not there in that department.

As far as the Bryan's rackets they used Princes for the last half of last year too and they were fine, I think they are just in a bit of a funk, unracket related.

Still the Sampras match was only one match, if I remember correctly, the US team has to win 3 best of fives.

Rabbit
04-14-2008, 03:18 PM
Still the Sampras match was only one match, if I remember correctly, the US team has to win 3 best of fives.

Let's take it the other way. Pete Sampras on clay in Russia. He wins 3 matches on dirt against the guy who won the French that year. He also wins against Mr. Consistency and doubles.

Sampras wins 3 on clay against clay courters away from home. Sampras loses on grass to a claycourter who boycotts Wimbledon at home. Again, I say...it's Davis Cup anything can happen.

I really think it'll boil down to Spain's #2 player. If he's riding high and confident, then we may not have a chance. But, remember that there have been times that Nads hasn't quite been himself. He gets in funks himself. His commitment to Davis Cup has been wavering and along about September, he's may be looking for a rest.

Stranger things have happened...it's Davis Cup.

flyer
04-14-2008, 03:44 PM
Let's take it the other way. Pete Sampras on clay in Russia. He wins 3 matches on dirt against the guy who won the French that year. He also wins against Mr. Consistency and doubles.

Sampras wins 3 on clay against clay courters away from home. Sampras loses on grass to a claycourter who boycotts Wimbledon at home. Again, I say...it's Davis Cup anything can happen.

I really think it'll boil down to Spain's #2 player. If he's riding high and confident, then we may not have a chance. But, remember that there have been times that Nads hasn't quite been himself. He gets in funks himself. His commitment to Davis Cup has been wavering and along about September, he's may be looking for a rest.

Stranger things have happened...it's Davis Cup.

I mean they play the matches for a reason, it would be an incredible upset

Nadal_Freak
04-14-2008, 03:55 PM
This would be the biggest upset of all-time. Nadal is the top clay courter and I say Ferrer is the 5th best claycourter. Put the combination of that and how bad the Americans did this last French Open doesn't seem possible. Sampras got to the Semis of the French Open so it's not like he was horrible on clay like Roddick and Blake.

edmondsm
04-14-2008, 03:58 PM
The only chance the US has is if Nadal and Ferrer are both injured come September. If that isn't the case then you might as well through some youngsters out there and give them the experience because there is no way that the US gets 3 wins out of this one.

ScovilleJenkins
04-14-2008, 04:01 PM
Roddick is alright on clay. Remember that match against Tursanov a few years back? The one that ended like 19-17 or 21-19 in the fifth set?


I dont think tursonov is a good comparison for who roddick will be playing on clay in september

cujays
04-14-2008, 04:06 PM
if dy would get picked i thiink he would play well but not win
james can play better on clay..... i hope

Djokovicfan4life
04-14-2008, 04:41 PM
Blake could be so much better if he could just accept the fact that he can't out-muscle his opponents on clay. Just listen any of his pre-match interviews, he always says the same thing. Something like "I'm just going to go out there and play my game" every time. So what happens if the surface won't allow him to play his game? Nothing. He can't adapt and he gets killed.

"Hey, wait a minute, this guy runs down all my shots! I've got to hit harder!"

"Hey, I dumped my last five service returns into the net, just a little more juice and they'll start going in."

"There, I got one in, smack the next one even HARDER!"

OK, I got carried away there, but that does sum up his game pretty well.

MajinX
04-14-2008, 04:46 PM
lol okay blake is a bit better than most ppl give him credit for, the mans beaten strong guys like nadal and nalbandian before, and if muscle is all u need to beat top 10 players like those two then a weight lifters should start playing tennis. But yea americans do suck on clay... Hmmm if nadal is gonna win both his singles most likely... SO the states only chance is the win the other 2 singles and doubles they can take with the byrans.

flyer
04-14-2008, 04:46 PM
Blake could be so much better if he could just accept the fact that he can't out-muscle his opponents on clay. Just listen any of his pre-match interviews, he always says the same thing. Something like "I'm just going to go out there and play my game" every time. So what happens if the surface won't allow him to play his game? Nothing. He can't adapt and he gets killed.

"Hey, wait a minute, this guy runs down all my shots! I've got to hit harder!"

"Hey, I dumped my last five service returns into the net, just a little more juice and they'll start going in."

"There, I got one in, smack the next one even HARDER!"

OK, I got carried away there, but that does sum up his game pretty well.

No you didn't get carried away, your exactly right, he plays his game to a fault, in tennis you have to adapt to your opponents(unless you name is Federer, or Williams then when you are playing your best it doesnt matter) and you would think a guy from Harvard would be a bit smarter on court, he does not though you defiantly captured the way his game goes and what seems to being through his head

daddy
04-14-2008, 05:07 PM
Blake could be so much better if he could just accept the fact that he can't out-muscle his opponents on clay. Just listen any of his pre-match interviews, he always says the same thing. Something like "I'm just going to go out there and play my game" every time. So what happens if the surface won't allow him to play his game? Nothing. He can't adapt and he gets killed.

"Hey, wait a minute, this guy runs down all my shots! I've got to hit harder!"

"Hey, I dumped my last five service returns into the net, just a little more juice and they'll start going in."

"There, I got one in, smack the next one even HARDER!"

OK, I got carried away there, but that does sum up his game pretty well.

Well well. It is not that hard to understand him if you only give it a try. He learned to play on fast courts, he plays well on fast courts. His game revolves around his big hitting and movement. This is the situation for James Blake for the last 20+ years.

One can not change what he is just because he is on a different surface. He is what he is. Others are the same, they do not alter because this is somethign they are and it can be changed only just. Think of this throught the perspective of Nadal - he can hit 100mph+ forehands easily and he can hit flat and go for his shots ( on HC courts ) ... but he doesn't. Why ? Same reason as Blake.

Phil
04-14-2008, 05:10 PM
The USA doesn't have any good clay players, so they may as well field their top-ranked players and hope for the best (which probably isn't going to cut it this time). Maybe someone will get lucky...

Sports_fan
04-14-2008, 05:32 PM
Like I said, I can't wait to see Roddick/Nadal on clay courts. I think this time it won't be that close. Roddick was a better player on clay 4 years ago as well as Rafa isn't close to the clay player that he is now.

I agree I think that match would be interesting given that match they played 4 years, but Nadal will win in the end because Roddick is no match for him on clay.

superman1
04-14-2008, 06:37 PM
Roddick's serve is too fast for serve and volley, the ball would be on its way back before he even took the first step towards the net. That plus he volley skills and you have a triple bagel.

But Nadal stands really far back on the return and doesn't put a whole lot on it.

If Roddick stands 10 ft behind the baseline, THEN he'll get destroyed. He just needs to make life as hard as possible for Nadal. He's a big ~6'3" guy, so if he keeps charging the net then there is the faint, minuscule possibility that Nadal will get thrown off.

flyer
04-14-2008, 06:40 PM
But Nadal stands really far back on the return and doesn't put a whole lot on it.

If Roddick stands 10 ft behind the baseline, THEN he'll get destroyed. He just needs to make life as hard as possible for Nadal. He's a big ~6'3" guy, so if he keeps charging the net then there is the faint, minuscule possibility that Nadal will get thrown off.

I understand what your say, I think you mean that if he tries to rally from the baseline with Nadal he has a 2% chance of victory, but if he serves and volleys he has a 4% chance of victory....am I on the right track, if I am I would agree

Casey10s
04-14-2008, 06:43 PM
I have only seen one person mentioned it, but I don't think the US will be seeing Nadal in September. After the the spring clay court season and the US hard courts, Nadal is usually pretty beaten up by the US Open. He will be taking the rest of September off and especially if he is still has an outside chance of ending up No. 1. So probably Ferrer will play singles with either Moya, Robredo, or Ferrero, depending on who is doing the best at that time. Therefore the US will be facing a Nadal-less line-up which will probably give them a good chance of making a run at it.

U.S.A U.S.A U.S.A:):):)

Phil
04-14-2008, 06:46 PM
Therefore the US will be facing a Nadal-less line-up which will probably give them a good chance of making a run at it.

It may give the USA a BETTER chance, but still not a very good chance. They'll lose no matter who plays for Spain.

daddy
04-14-2008, 07:04 PM
It may give the USA a BETTER chance, but still not a very good chance. They'll lose no matter who plays for Spain.


I got to go with you on this one. The real challange for Spain would be to find players outside of top 20 and then play vs USA. Then I would think twice but again, go with Spain. Almagro, Verdasco, Lopez ( though S&V ), they do not sound like much but can take out people on clay.

Djokovicfan4life
04-14-2008, 07:46 PM
I agree that Roddick can't win from the baseline, but he's probably got the world record by now for getting passed by guys like Nadal as well. No disrespect intended to Andy, but it's the truth. Even Federer can't handle Nadal on clay, much less Andy.

crazylevity
04-14-2008, 08:28 PM
Spain should rest their top players for the next round. Field Almagro and Ferrero...if it's 2-2 into the last rubber, call Nadal.

flyer
04-14-2008, 08:37 PM
Spain should rest their top players for the next round. Field Almagro and Ferrero...if it's 2-2 into the last rubber, call Nadal.

idk about ferrero but the concept is a good diea

lambielspins
04-14-2008, 08:39 PM
Roddick vs Nadal on clay would be a joke. Roddick's only strategy should probably be to fake an injury and retire before it gets ugly.

stormholloway
04-14-2008, 08:41 PM
Roddick and Blake could play each other on clay and both lose. This is going to be a slaughter.

welcome2petrkordaland
04-14-2008, 09:16 PM
i've read thru this whole thread and i'm still thinking that blake's flat power game with really only one gear and his reluctance to hit 3/4 speed until he gets an opening (despite having great strokes both bh and fh) will be a recipe for a straight set loss to a Spaniard on clay,esp. nadal, ferrer, ferrero, & robredo.

And poor Andy who's playing unbelievable, esp. on his beloved superfast, indoor hard courts simply doesn't have the endurance for a 3 of 5 match with multiple 7 or 8 stroke rallies, much less the lateral movement defensively. Plus, just a reminder to people who forgot or haven't played on clay, smart service returners (esp. the Spaniards) back up way behind the baseline and actually take big cuts at service returns. there is no way in @#$ that roddick will be able to serve and volley on clay against Spain. And his serve will be totally neutralized by the clay. this is spain, folks; roddick and blake will lose both singles rubbers; let's just hope they don't get anyone pregnant.

So overall, Roddick, like Blake, will lose for sure in a singles rubber against even a nadalless Spain on clay. nadal will crush either one, obviously 2, 2, and 2.

Who else, one might ask, could replace these guys? IDK, but I just saw that Young won his 1st match in Houston and Ginepri lost his 1st match.

Fedace
04-14-2008, 09:27 PM
I think Andy can take out Ferrer but not Nadal.

flyer
04-14-2008, 09:29 PM
I think Andy can take out Ferrer but not Nadal.

just curious, whats your logic behind this thinkign?

welcome2petrkordaland
04-14-2008, 09:30 PM
anything can happen, but ferrer beat andy on hard court last year, not a good sign for andy on clay. and ferrer is as fast as nadal, which is sick and spells no winners for andy on clay IMHO.

Nadal_Freak
04-14-2008, 09:31 PM
I think Andy can take out Ferrer but not Nadal.
Ferrer is awesome on clay. He just has a mental block against Federer. Hopefully he changes that around. Roddick can't beat anyone of the top 10 dirtballers. Especially on the clay that Spain is going to use.

quest01
04-14-2008, 09:33 PM
I think Andy can take out Ferrer but not Nadal.

I think its possible. Even though Roddick has struggled against Ferrer in the past but the way he has been playing lately and in Davis Cup, anything is possible. I know this match up will be tough for the US but I feel they will find a way to win this.

Fedace
04-14-2008, 09:34 PM
just curious, whats your logic behind this thinkign?

Andy can serve huge when he is confident. and Ferrer has problem with andy's serve, even on clay courts. so i expect andy to hold serve 99% of the time. and Ferrer loses confidence when he is getting pushed around from back court. so andy wins.

Nadal_Freak
04-14-2008, 09:39 PM
Andy can serve huge when he is confident. and Ferrer has problem with andy's serve, even on clay courts. so i expect andy to hold serve 99% of the time. and Ferrer loses confidence when he is getting pushed around from back court. so andy wins.
I think the fast hardcourts of USA warped your mind. I think you will be surprised how much slower the surface in Spain will be and how different a slippery surface will effect Roddick's game. Ferrer is use to the slippery surface as he grew up on it. No one is unbreakable on clay. Even Sampras.

thalivest
04-14-2008, 09:46 PM
Roddick beating Ferrer on clay!?! That is a laugher. Some of you pro-American rah rahers need a reality check. The U.S wont get a single point, except maybe the doubles.

thalivest
04-14-2008, 09:48 PM
Andy can serve huge when he is confident. and Ferrer has problem with andy's serve, even on clay courts. so i expect andy to hold serve 99% of the time. and Ferrer loses confidence when he is getting pushed around from back court. so andy wins.

Andy has trouble holding serve vs Ferrer on hard courts, yet you think he will hold 99% of the time on clay!? Dream on. Also where do you get this warped idea of "Andy Roddick", yes remember this is Andy Roddick here, pushing Ferrer around from the back court, on clay no less.

flyer
04-14-2008, 09:48 PM
Andy can serve huge when he is confident. and Ferrer has problem with andy's serve, even on clay courts. so i expect andy to hold serve 99% of the time. and Ferrer loses confidence when he is getting pushed around from back court. so andy wins.

idk man, i'd just have to disagree here, granted everybody is going to have trouble with andy's serve to an extent but ferrer is one of the very top returners in the game, Fed himself said he has the best second serve return in the game, and on clay which greatly neutralizes Roddick's serve all ferrer would have o do is get the ball back and he would almost certainly win the point, i know you exaggerating that 99% thing but lemme tell you you are way over confident in his serve against ferrer on clay

zagor
04-14-2008, 09:49 PM
Andy can serve huge when he is confident. and Ferrer has problem with andy's serve, even on clay courts. so i expect andy to hold serve 99% of the time. and Ferrer loses confidence when he is getting pushed around from back court. so andy wins.

The last time they play on medium speed indoor hardcourt(TMC) I didn't see Ferrer having any trouble with Roddick's serve at all as he broke him 4 times.
So I definitely don't see Andy's serve giving Ferrer much problem on clay and during his career Roddick has lost to much worse claycourters than Ferrer.Also in my opinon a serve like Federer's is much less neutralized on clay then Andy's serve which relies on overwhelming pace and power rather then placement and disguise.

Morrissey
04-14-2008, 09:56 PM
Andy can serve huge when he is confident. and Ferrer has problem with andy's serve, even on clay courts. so i expect andy to hold serve 99% of the time. and Ferrer loses confidence when he is getting pushed around from back court. so andy wins.

Looking at your posts you talk with the logic of a 5 yr old. Ferrer has no problem whatsoever returning Roddick's serve, he has a winning record against him and all were on hardcourt. Ferrer has one of the best return of serve percentages on tour and he returns Andy's serve often. And on clay he'll get almost all the serves back. Ferrer is actually a bad matchup for Roddick, he absorbs his power, returns his serve and makes him rally a lot. All bad things for Andy. Plus it will be on clay which will onlly make this matchup even worse for Andy. Honestly speaking, I predict the US only take 4 sets the entire weekend. 3 of those 4 sets coming from the lone win in the doubles. This is it for the US, the road ends in Spain.

Nadal_Freak
04-14-2008, 09:58 PM
Looking at your posts you talk with the logic of a 5 yr old. Ferrer has no problem whatsoever returning Roddick's serve, he has a winning record against him and all were on hardcourt. Ferrer has one of the best return of serve percentages on tour and he returns Andy's serve often. And on clay he'll get almost all the serves back. Ferrer is actually a bad matchup for Roddick, he absorbs his power, returns his serve and makes him rally a lot. All bad things for Andy. Plus it will be on clay which will onlly make this matchup even worse for Andy. Honestly speaking, I predict the US only take 4 sets the entire weekend. 3 of those 4 sets coming from the lone win in the doubles. This is it for the US, the road ends in Spain.
Poor USA team fans that will try anything to think of a way that USA can actually have a chance on clay against Spain. I think Roddick and Blake should not be chosen to avoid the embarrassment of what's coming forward if Nadal and Ferrer are playing.

quest01
04-14-2008, 10:00 PM
Poor USA team fans that will try anything to think of a way that USA can actually have a chance on clay against Spain. I think Roddick and Blake should not be chosen to avoid the embarrassment of what's coming forward if Nadal and Ferrer are playing.

So you live in the US and you support Spain?

Fedace
04-14-2008, 10:04 PM
The last time they play on medium speed indoor hardcourt(TMC) I didn't see Ferrer having any trouble with Roddick's serve at all as he broke him 4 times.
So I definitely don't see Andy's serve giving Ferrer much problem on clay and during his career Roddick has lost to much worse claycourters than Ferrer.Also in my opinon a serve like Federer's is much less neutralized on clay then Andy's serve which relies on overwhelming pace and power rather then placement and disguise.

OK OK, i forgot about that one. If that is the case, then lets all hope, Nadal and Ferrer come down with influenza the night before the match and pull out...:-?

Morrissey
04-14-2008, 10:04 PM
Poor USA team fans that will try anything to think of a way that USA can actually have a chance on clay against Spain. I think Roddick and Blake should not be chosen to avoid the embarrassment of what's coming forward if Nadal and Ferrer are playing.

I hope they play because I wanna see Nadal demolish their butts all over the red dirt, it'll be the only chance Nadal gets to play those guys on clay because they suck so hard on it they never go far enough to even face Nadal in a tournament. Nadal always has to go far on his worst surface to even get to play them and even beat them on their favorite surface too. It's time Nadal got the chance to play them on his surface. I'm gonna savor every minute of that trashing and the look on PMac's face as they get slaughtered. I can't stand a single member of that US Davis Cup team.

Morrissey
04-14-2008, 10:05 PM
OK OK, i forgot about that one. If that is the case, then lets all hope, Nadal and Ferrer come down with influenza the night before the match and pull out...:-?

Then you could always put Moya, Ferrero and even Robredo. Spain would most likely even win that. Americans suck that bad on clay.

slice bh compliment
04-14-2008, 10:06 PM
Roddick and Blake could play each other on clay and both lose. This is going to be a slaughter.

That was funny, man. I hope you're wrong, but you definitely got me laughing.

Fedace
04-14-2008, 10:07 PM
I really think US team should bring in Todd Martin for this tie. The reason is this. Todd Martin used to play great on clay courts, had some awsome results on warm up tournaments prior to french open in the past, when he was still playing that is. so Bring todd in and have him coach the guys before the davis cup starts. I think this should give US a better chance to win. Todd used to be so good, that pat Macenroe used to call him Todd Martinez.

Morrissey
04-14-2008, 10:08 PM
So you live in the US and you support Spain?

So what? Now we have to root for them? I choose to root for who I want, I'm not predisposed to cheer for anyone because of where I'm from. Same for Nadal Freak.

Morrissey
04-14-2008, 10:11 PM
I really think US team should bring in Todd Martin for this tie. The reason is this. Todd Martin used to play great on clay courts, had some awsome results on warm up tournaments prior to french open in the past, when he playing that is. so Bring todd in and have him coach the guys before the davis cup starts. I think this should give US a better chance to win.

Todd Martin? Did he win any clay Masters Series or better yet a French Open? Todd Martin was no clay master. If you wanted to have someone to represent it better I would put Courier, but it doesn't matter. Roddick and Blake will always suck on clay, their mindset, strategy and their games don't work on clay. Simple as that, so stop trying to "figure it out". This is over. America has no chance of beating Spain on clay in Spain. Do you understand?

zagor
04-14-2008, 10:12 PM
I really think US team should bring in Todd Martin for this tie. The reason is this. Todd Martin used to play great on clay courts, had some awsome results on warm up tournaments prior to french open in the past, when he playing that is. so Bring todd in and have him coach the guys before the davis cup starts. I think this should give US a better chance to win.

If Nadal shows up USA doesn't stand a chance in hell,I don't care it they bring Courier,Chang and Agassi alltogether to prepare Roddick and Blake for clay.If Nadal doens't show up,Spain is still the huge favourite but USA atleast has some very small chance of pulling an upset.Either way I would be very surprised if Spain doesn't take this one and convincingly as well.

Morrissey
04-14-2008, 10:20 PM
I can't believe there's this much discussion about this tie, this shouldn't even be on people's minds because this one is as close to a foregone conclusion that there can be. Let's talk Russia vs Argentina. Now that's going to be competitive. The US suck balls on clay and suck it hard.

Morrissey
04-14-2008, 10:22 PM
If there's ever a time to bet your house on anything it would be on Spain beating the US on clay. I'm just curious to see Nadal play Roddick and Blake on te red dirt. I just wonder how much Roddick will play on clay this Spring. Maybe more than 3 matches this time?

slice bh compliment
04-14-2008, 10:22 PM
Of course Ferru is tough as nails. And Rafa is the undiputed heavyweight champion of the world on clay. And the rest of the Spanish team is close to unbeatable on clay.

The US winning two rubbers would be an upset, and 3 would be cause for celebration.

Is it possible?
Well...

Todd Marrrteen won Barcelona once, I think. Maybe it was Estoril, but it was considered an acccomplishment.
Flip won a large claycourt title. So did Krajicek.
So did Pete. Henman got the the semis at RG. So did Rafter.
Pete once dominated a Davis Cup final on heavily watered clay.
RF won Hamburg.
McEnroe won the Italian Open once and ''coulda been'' about ten minutes from the Roland Garros title in 84 against Lendl (who ended up being an all-time great on clay as well as hard courts).
Yannick Noah won RG playing all-court attacking tennis all seven matches.

A huge-server with an attacking game, tempered with patience, quality approaching and precise angled volleys can do well on clay.

I think Roddick, a grinder at heart, can hold and get into TB's with the best of 'em, especially if he embraces the approach and voley game. Then who knows? Maybe an upset or two. And with Blake, you never know. This is the beauty of Davis Cup. Greatest thing in tennis.

ANd also, we Americans root for the underdog. It's in our sporting DNA you know. Plus, this is one of the few times all of us actually root for Roddick. Kind of different. Think I'm going to go to Spain instead of the Open this September.

Morrissey
04-14-2008, 10:32 PM
Of course Ferru is tough as nails. And Rafa is the undiputed heavyweight champion of the world on clay. And the rest of the Spanish team is close to unbeatable on clay.

The US winning two rubbers would be an upset, and 3 would be cause for celebration.

Is it possible?
Well...

Todd Marrrteen won Barcelona once, I think.
Flip won a large claycourt title.
So did Pete. Henman got the the semis at RG. So did Rafter.
Pete once dominated a Davis Cup final on heavily watered clay.
RF won Hamburg.
McEnroe won the Italian Open once and ''coulda been'' about ten minutes from the Roland Garros title in 84 against Lendl (who ended up being an all-time great on clay as well as hard courts).
Yannick Noah won RG playing all-court attacking tennis all seven matches.

A huge-server with an attacking game, tempered with patience, quality approaching and precise angled volleys can do well on clay.

I think Roddick, a grinder at heart, can hold and get into TB's with the best of 'em, especially if he embraces the approach and voley game. Then who knows? Maybe an upset or two. And with Blake, you never know. This is the beauty of Davis Cup. Greatest thing in tennis.

ANd also, we Americans root for the underdog. It's in our sporting DNA you know. Plus, this is one of the few times all of us actually root for Roddick. Kind of different. Think I'm going to go to Spain instead of the Open this September.


Roddick has nothing that Martin, Sampras may have had for brief moments on clay. Imagine Roddick getting into 15-20 shot rallies on a regular basis, that will be only the first set. He gets into 8-10 shot rallies on hardcourt with Ferrer, imagine how long on clay. Blake just getting past a 5 shot rally is nothing short of a miracle, on clay he's gonna come close to 100 unforced errors, if the match even lasts long enough. Nadal and Ferrer on clay is something like having Federer and Djokovic on hardcourt. I think the Americans know deep down this one's over. They're gonna go because they're defending champs and will enjoy the beautiful weather, great food in Spain. They're practically gonna hand over the baton to Spain because I would think they'd be the favorites to win the Davis Cup title. I would think that Roddick and Blake have already had nightmares of this upcoming tie. This is a worst case scenario realized. I wonder if they're gonna pull out a week before it happens? Maybe Roddick needs rest after another heartbreaking loss at the US Open. Maybe Blake is too distraught after another tough 5 set loss. In the end PMac is gonna have to put Fish and Querrey on the flight to Spain.

slice bh compliment
04-14-2008, 10:35 PM
... I think the Americans know deep down this one's over. They're gonna go because they're defending champs and will enjoy the beautiful weather, great food in Spain. They're practically gonna hand over the baton to Spain because I would think they'd be the favorites to win the Davis Cup title.

As a fan, and in terms of results, I think you are probably right.

But trust me, man, THAT is NOT how professional athletes think.

Morrissey
04-14-2008, 10:36 PM
As a fan, and in terms of results, I think you are probably right.

But trust me, man, THAT is NOT how professional athletes think.

Unless you're Gasquet

welcome2petrkordaland
04-14-2008, 10:39 PM
yeah, richard's fast becoming a wuss in my book, not just b/c of the DC but everything about his ridiculous talent, inconsistent results profile. gasquet=safin?

Morrissey
04-14-2008, 10:42 PM
yeah, richard's fast becoming a wuss in my book, not just b/c of the DC but everything about his ridiculous talent, inconsistent results profile. gasquet=safin?

Safin has grit, he's not a p*ssy. He's just too busy chasing it or thinking about it. But I don't think Safin would back down from playing anyone, no matter how bad he's playing. And at least Safin won 2 slams, multiple MS. Gasquet has none of those things. It's funny because he fits the stereotype of a Frenchman. At least French history of cowardice.

superman1
04-15-2008, 12:39 AM
Even though they can't win, I'm still looking forward to this. I think Andy and James are going to give Spain a very good fight. Even if they lose in straights, the points and sets will all be close. Those two guys have a lot of heart.

GOD_BLESS_RAFA
04-15-2008, 01:54 AM
How about this : USA can ask Courrier to come back to play Brugera in Davis Cup ...LOL

Rabbit
04-15-2008, 04:25 AM
This would be the biggest upset of all-time. Nadal is the top clay courter and I say Ferrer is the 5th best claycourter. Put the combination of that and how bad the Americans did this last French Open doesn't seem possible. Sampras got to the Semis of the French Open so it's not like he was horrible on clay like Roddick and Blake.

In 1995, Sampras was a 1R loser at the French Open. In Davis Cup in 1995, Sampras beat Kafelnikov who was a semi-finalist at the French that year losing to the eventual champion, Muster. Sampras did make the semis the next year, 1996, losing to Kafelnikov in straight sets 6-7, 0-6, 2-6 hardly a stirring indictment of Sampras' clay court prowess. I think in his career, Sampras had exactly one more career clay cour title than Boris Becker who retired with zero.

IF Roddick continues playing and improving as he has, wins over Joker, Federer, Nads, and he has a good summer and IF Blake will finally figure out that he doesn't have to hit every ball as hard as he can and learns the lesson Jim Courier learned; the other guy can miss....well the US might just have a slim chance at a 3/2 upset in Spain.

Hey, we're due we haven't beaten Spain on dirt since the Spanish/American War...

Morrissey
04-15-2008, 04:28 AM
Even though they can't win, I'm still looking forward to this. I think Andy and James are going to give Spain a very good fight. Even if they lose in straights, the points and sets will all be close. Those two guys have a lot of heart.

They'll be playing 2 guys with even more heart than them, and also more consistency and stamina than them as well.

Morrissey
04-15-2008, 04:32 AM
In 1995, Sampras was a 1R loser at the French Open. In Davis Cup in 1995, Sampras beat Kafelnikov who was a semi-finalist at the French that year losing to the eventual champion, Muster. Sampras did make the semis the next year, 1996, losing to Kafelnikov in straight sets 6-7, 0-6, 2-6 hardly a stirring indictment of Sampras' clay court prowess. I think in his career, Sampras had exactly one more career clay cour title than Boris Becker who retired with zero.

IF Roddick continues playing and improving as he has, wins over Joker, Federer, Nads, and he has a good summer and IF Blake will finally figure out that he doesn't have to hit every ball as hard as he can and learns the lesson Jim Courier learned; the other guy can miss....well the US might just have a slim chance at a 3/2 upset in Spain.

Hey, we're due we haven't beaten Spain on dirt since the Spanish/American War...

You do realize how silly that sounds right? We're talking about beating Nadal and Ferrer on clay. Hoping isn't going to make them better all of a sudden on clay. Let alone be good on clay, but then dealing with juggernauts in Nadal and Ferrer. I'm wondering if the Bryans wil even win their match. They've not been so good this year.

tintin
04-15-2008, 05:09 AM
Andy,James got lucky last year because instead of playing Argentina;they got Sweden instead and thrashed them and got a Safin-less-russian team and a choking Youzhny and got lucky again when Tsonga got injured.Mathieu has been a choker all his life and will die a choker.Gasquet's got knee tendinitis and punked out of this tie due to clay season starting next week for him while Andy will be on vacation in Rome and in Paris shopping;walking around until Wimbledon with his fiance :lol:
Ferrer thrashed Roddick,twice on hard courts and Nadal has beaten Blake on his favorite hard court surface.
Roddick,Blake should remember what playing in Spain on red clay feels like,and that Nadal and Ferrer imo have improved as players and will thrashed Roddick;no matter how hot Andy is these days and Blake into oblivion:lol:
The only point the US might;yes might will come from Mike and bob
a bunch of 2nd tier dirtballers like Melzers and Koubek ain't Nadal,Ferrer,Moya,Ferrero or even Almagro
if anyone thinks Roddick,Blake;Fish or whomever will be a healthy Spanish team is delusional at best:lol:
luck ends here guys;)

el sergento
04-15-2008, 06:27 AM
Here's what I would do:

Let Blake play Nadal and have Roddick play the #2 or 3 guy for both rubbers.

Nadal wins both matches of course, bur Roddick has a better chance of scoring 1-2 points against anyone else but Nadal. So the score would be 3-2 Spain if the US wins in doubles. If Roddick out of some act of god wins both singles then the B'bros could be the deciding factor.

I see it as the only chance the US has to not go down 4-1. Blake is gonna loose anyway so why not play him vs. Nadal so that Roddick can have a chance at scoring at least a single point.

el sergento
04-15-2008, 06:41 AM
You do realize how silly that sounds right? We're talking about beating Nadal and Ferrer on clay. Hoping isn't going to make them better all of a sudden on clay. Let alone be good on clay, but then dealing with juggernauts in Nadal and Ferrer. I'm wondering if the Bryans wil even win their match. They've not been so good this year.

Ferrer isn't that dominant on clay, he's pretty much an all courter. Which is why he's a top 10er.

On HC he's 90-65 which is a58% winning percentage.
On Clay he's 110-65 which is a 62% winning percentage.

I'd play Ferrero or Moya over Ferrer. Moya wins 71% of the time on clay and Ferrero 74%.

Plus Ferrer is, so far, having a crappy year. By September all this might change though.

FYI - Nadal is 91% life time on clay = GOAT.

Nadal_Freak
04-15-2008, 06:46 AM
So you live in the US and you support Spain?
I support the Spanish team because my favorite players are on that team. The USA team is full of players I don't like.

tintin
04-15-2008, 06:46 AM
I can see both Rafa and David playing a set for 2 hours and blowing Andy and James the other 2 sets in 30 minutes:lol: :lol:
don't kid yourself mate;it ain't gonna happen;)

Nadal_Freak
04-15-2008, 06:52 AM
Ferrer isn't that dominant on clay, he's pretty much an all courter. Which is why he's a top 10er.

On HC he's 90-65 which is a58% winning percentage.
On Clay he's 110-65 which is a 62% winning percentage.

I'd play Ferrero or Moya over Ferrer. Moya wins 71% of the time on clay and Ferrero 74%.

Plus Ferrer is, so far, having a crappy year. By September all this might change though.

FYI - Nadal is 91% life time on clay = GOAT.
Ferrer had his best year last year though. He is an all courter except maybe grass but clay is still his favorite. Ferrer earlier in his career was obviously not as good as Moya and Ferrero but he is obviously better than them now.

my_forehand
04-15-2008, 06:54 AM
I support the Spanish team because my favorite players are on that team. The USA team is full of players I don't like.

You mean favorite player ;)

el sergento
04-15-2008, 07:02 AM
Ferrer had his best year last year though. He is an all courter except maybe grass but clay is still his favorite. Ferrer earlier in his career was obviously not as good as Moya and Ferrero but he is obviously better than them now.

He's a better player for sure, but not necessarily a better clay court player. Ferrer has improved so much because he now takes more risks on his FH, which he can flatten out to great effect on faster courts, and which he used to great effect against Nadal at the USO and TMC. He's also now making tonnes more errors then he used to when he was a classic steady retriever or counter puncher (or dirt-baller). Given his achievements last year and his new style of play it will be interesting to see how he fares on clay this season.

Casey10s
04-15-2008, 12:51 PM
In 1995, Sampras was a 1R loser at the French Open. In Davis Cup in 1995, Sampras beat Kafelnikov who was a semi-finalist at the French that year losing to the eventual champion, Muster. Sampras did make the semis the next year, 1996, losing to Kafelnikov in straight sets 6-7, 0-6, 2-6 hardly a stirring indictment of Sampras' clay court prowess. I think in his career, Sampras had exactly one more career clay court title than Boris Becker who retired with zero.[/I]

I saw something the other day. Sampras had 3 clay court titles. I don't know what tournaments they were.

Morrissey
04-15-2008, 12:56 PM
[/I]

I saw something the other day. Sampras had 3 clay court titles. I don't know what tournaments they were.

Sampras was a better mover than Roddick and hit better from the baseline than he ever did. People forget that about Sampras, especially on clay. It was from 1997 and onwards that Sampras was obsolete on clay.

coloskier
04-15-2008, 01:40 PM
Sampras was a better mover than Roddick and hit better from the baseline than he ever did. People forget that about Sampras, especially on clay. It was from 1997 and onwards that Sampras was obsolete on clay.

Plus, even on clay, Sampras serve was dangerous. If he was serving well, he beat everyone, regardless of the surface. If he was placing them in the corners (unlike Roddick), he still could blow away even the best clay courters, because the surface may be slow, but where you put the serve is almost as important as speed. And he had a HUGE kicker for a 2nd serve, that bothered a lot of players.

Moose Malloy
04-15-2008, 01:51 PM
I know Rodick generally sucks on clay, but keep in mind the DC tie just consists of 1 or 2 matches, & you generally know who you are going to play beforehand. It's not like a regular tour event at all, where you can play anyone of a number of players in the 1st round. Your prep is totally different as well, you have an entire week to practice there, unlike a tour event, for the most part.

Here is Roddick's DC record on clay, I have a feeling if he was playing some of these guys in Monte Carlo or something he wouldn't have fared as well:

2002
loss to Clement 6-4 6-7(6) 6-7(5) 1-6
loss to Grosjean 4-6 6-3 3-6 4-6
2003
loss to Hrbaty 6-3 3-6 4-6 4-6
win over Beck 6-3 6-4 6-4
2004
loss to Nadal 7-6(6) 2-6 6-7(6) 2-6
loss to Moya 2-6 6-7(1) 6-7(5)
2005
win over C Rochus 6-1 6-2 6-3
win over O Rochus 6-7(4) 7-6(4) 7-6(5) 4-6 6-3
2006
loss to Safin 4-6 3-6 6-7(5)
loss to Tursunov 3-6 4-6 7-5 6-3 15-17
2007
win over Minar 6-4 4-6 6-2 6-3
win over Berdych 4-6 6-3 6-2 7-6(4)
2008
win over Melzer 6-4 4-6 6-3 6-7(4) 6-3

So while that isn't a great record, he managed to be competive with all those players, no blowouts. I think he can do the same in Sept. His close scores vs Spain in 2004 is especially impressive.

drive
04-15-2008, 02:11 PM
When Nadal played against Roddick in DC finals he was only 18 years old, I think that in September it will be a different story...

Djokovicfan4life
04-15-2008, 02:17 PM
Andy can serve huge when he is confident. and Ferrer has problem with andy's serve, even on clay courts. so i expect andy to hold serve 99% of the time. and Ferrer loses confidence when he is getting pushed around from back court. so andy wins.
Watch the Melzer/Roddick match on clay, those huge serves get returned no problem. Sure, Andy was able to pull it out, but Ferrer's a little better than Melzer IMO.

edmondsm
04-15-2008, 02:43 PM
I hope they play because I wanna see Nadal demolish their butts all over the red dirt, it'll be the only chance Nadal gets to play those guys on clay because they suck so hard on it they never go far enough to even face Nadal in a tournament. Nadal always has to go far on his worst surface to even get to play them and even beat them on their favorite surface too. It's time Nadal got the chance to play them on his surface. I'm gonna savor every minute of that trashing and the look on PMac's face as they get slaughtered. I can't stand a single member of that US Davis Cup team.

Geeeez, you are an angry little man.

Then you could always put Moya, Ferrero and even Robredo. Spain would most likely even win that. Americans suck that bad on clay.

Ok let me make sure I've got this straight. You don't like Americans. Are we staight on that?

quest01
04-15-2008, 06:03 PM
Ok let me make sure I've got this straight. You don't like Americans. Are we staight on that?

Its either that or he lives in the US and is anti American.

Personally for me I strongly support patriotism and nationalism and if the US goes against another country in any event or sport I will always support them. I mean our country was founded upon national symbols, culture, values, identity, and language.

daddy
04-15-2008, 06:25 PM
Its either that or he lives in the US and is anti American.

Personally for me I strongly support patriotism and nationalism and if the US goes against another country in any event or sport I will always support them. I mean our country was founded upon national symbols, culture, values, identity, and language.

Well for me this goes pretty much the same but not for the usa. If my guys are not good enough I simply can not watch and choose not to instead of rooting for any other country. This is unheard of in other countries. Democracy is surely making real progress in USA.

Magix
04-15-2008, 07:54 PM
Watch the Melzer/Roddick match on clay, those huge serves get returned no problem. Sure, Andy was able to pull it out, but Ferrer's a little better than Melzer IMO.
Ferrer's only a little better better than Melzer? Ferrer's a lot better than Melzer.

And he should be able to cruise past Roddick should they play, of course. He's won the last 3 matches or something like that.

Nadal, Ferrer, Moya, Robredo, Ferrero, Lopez, Alamgro; they should all prove to be too much for the United States.

Spain will win, no question about it.

crazylevity
04-15-2008, 08:45 PM
Here's what I would do:

Let Blake play Nadal and have Roddick play the #2 or 3 guy for both rubbers.

Nadal wins both matches of course, bur Roddick has a better chance of scoring 1-2 points against anyone else but Nadal. So the score would be 3-2 Spain if the US wins in doubles. If Roddick out of some act of god wins both singles then the B'bros could be the deciding factor.

I see it as the only chance the US has to not go down 4-1. Blake is gonna loose anyway so why not play him vs. Nadal so that Roddick can have a chance at scoring at least a single point.

you can't. That's why the last 2 singles are called REVERSE singles.

beedlejuice22
04-16-2008, 03:30 AM
how do we know nadal will play in that tie? He hasn't been too loyal to his team in the past.

Morrissey
04-16-2008, 04:40 AM
how do we know nadal will play in that tie? He hasn't been too loyal to his team in the past.

Because he said he would be there. Plus, it's a SF.

Morrissey
04-16-2008, 04:42 AM
Geeeez, you are an angry little man.



Ok let me make sure I've got this straight. You don't like Americans. Are we staight on that?

Don't worry about me, worry about yourself. But thanks for your concern.

logansc
04-16-2008, 05:02 AM
Hey Morrissey, The Smiths called, they want their singer back, but in all seriousness I'm with whoever said you dance with who brought ya, Roddick's quote on saying they won't be favorites but they will show up, that's the right attitude.

flyer
04-16-2008, 05:06 AM
Hey Morrissey, The Smiths called, they want their singer back, but in all seriousness I'm with whoever said you dance with who brought ya, Roddick's quote on saying they won't be favorites but they will show up, that's the right attitude.

i mean that sounds cool, but i would think since your there already you dance with whoever gives you the best chance to win and keep dancing lets say

el sergento
04-16-2008, 06:22 AM
you can't. That's why the last 2 singles are called REVERSE singles.

Yup, had a brain cramp there.

slice bh compliment
04-16-2008, 06:23 AM
Yup, had a brain cramp there.

That's what too much BS league tennis does to you.

edmondsm
04-16-2008, 11:46 AM
Don't worry about me, worry about yourself. But thanks for your concern.

I didn't mean to express worry. I'm not worried about you in the slightest. I just try to pipe up every once in a while to keep you from turning every thread on this board into an obnoxious grade school style war of words.

Morrissey
04-16-2008, 08:49 PM
I didn't mean to express worry. I'm not worried about you in the slightest. I just try to pipe up every once in a while to keep you from turning every thread on this board into an obnoxious grade school style war of words.

Then why are you here? BTW, IŽm not worried about you either, and if youŽre not then do as I said in the first place. Worry about yourself. IŽll be fine. Thanks.