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aimr75
04-14-2008, 01:29 AM
I've uploaded a couple of serves (with slow motion).. if anyone can provide some feedback on things to improve, what i'm doing wrong, anything.. that would be great

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kqEWzPX3V7A

cheers
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AznHylite
04-14-2008, 06:11 AM
Very nice serve. You have a nice fluid motion.

Djokovicfan4life
04-14-2008, 08:30 AM
I'm sure guys like Bungalo Bill will be along shortly and will find a couple minor errors, but seriously, nice serve. :)

Moz
04-14-2008, 08:54 AM
With the disclaimer that I don't know an awful lot technically here are my comments.

It looks like a very nice serve at the point where your body is coiled, you are leaning into the court, your arm looks loose and your legs are bent.

After that it seems to be a bit flat. I was expecting you to explode up into the ball and get some good drive up off the ground.

The action seems to end with a gentle step into the court after a small jump. It looks as though you are storing up plenty of energy and then don't use half of it.

Again, as I said, you may prefer to wait for the experts to wade in.

Vision84
04-14-2008, 08:57 AM
Nothing i can see wrong with it but I am not as experienced as some of the other coaches who post here.

I like your motion. Very smooth without any hitches and you have a very nice looking trophy position. Good job.

Djokovicfan4life
04-14-2008, 09:01 AM
Moz hit the nail on the head. Explode up and into the court more. This will give you more power and a greater margin for error because your contact point will be higher.

I really wish I had your form. I've never seen a vid of myself, but I'm sure I look pretty bad, especially on bad tosses. I need to just buy a camera already.

Koaske
04-14-2008, 12:49 PM
Like the others have said, I can't see any areas where you could improve except the exploding with legs. Pros usually land around a foot further in the court than you.

smoothtennis
04-14-2008, 01:08 PM
Moz perfectly described what I was seeing and thinking. And it's hard because, honestly, you really do have a very nice load into the trophy position. It just seemed a bit listless after attaining such a nice position.

Don't get me wrong -that is a very nice service motion, and I am sure your serve has good pace and spin. But you know how we like to tweak things...if you have a 11 second 1/4 mile hot rod, we will try to get it to a 10.5 - just can't help it.

smoothtennis
04-14-2008, 01:15 PM
Moz hit the nail on the head. Explode up and into the court more. This will give you more power and a greater margin for error because your contact point will be higher.

I really wish I had your form. I've never seen a vid of myself, but I'm sure I look pretty bad, especially on bad tosses. I need to just buy a camera already.

Djoko - I took a vid of my service, and wow - seeing is believing. I have been working on fixing things after that vid for a month now. Things that I can assure you - I thought I was doing right previously. My arm wan't going all the way up after the toss, wrist was breaking early at trophy position, not going into the court enough - plenty to work on here...

But see...if you asked me if I did those things I wasn't doing, I would have said YES, of course. But I wasn't. My video has been invaluable lately in improving my serve and groundies. Volleys are next on the list....

Fay
04-14-2008, 01:37 PM
Nice fluid motion. I can't give you any technical advice past that, but being a retired figure skating coach I really like the smooth and effortless flow you have.

Solat
04-14-2008, 10:32 PM
its my opinion that you are dropping your body too early in the motion and having to wait there too long. This takes out the dynamic stretching of the muscles which means less elastic power output and (as everyone has mentioned) therefore less leg drive and upward momentum.

i think you should try to drop only upon release of the ball to see if that helps

otherwise it all looks quite seamless
good luck

aimr75
04-14-2008, 11:44 PM
thanks for the comments.. this was the first time ive seen myself on video, but i did also notice my lack of "explosion" into the serve.. i will work on this

solat, i will try and see what the effect of waiting on the body drop will do

if anyone else can provide comments (BB or other experienced guys here), that would be great
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aimr75
04-15-2008, 02:18 PM
also, are there any tips on improving the ball toss, its a source of inconsistency for me
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Djokovicfan4life
04-15-2008, 02:40 PM
Djoko - I took a vid of my service, and wow - seeing is believing. I have been working on fixing things after that vid for a month now. Things that I can assure you - I thought I was doing right previously. My arm wan't going all the way up after the toss, wrist was breaking early at trophy position, not going into the court enough - plenty to work on here...

But see...if you asked me if I did those things I wasn't doing, I would have said YES, of course. But I wasn't. My video has been invaluable lately in improving my serve and groundies. Volleys are next on the list....
Thanks for the advice, eventually I'll start analyzing my serve, but I shudder to even think about volleys. :shock:

Uthree
04-15-2008, 03:11 PM
its my opinion that you are dropping your body too early in the motion and having to wait there too long. This takes out the dynamic stretching of the muscles which means less elastic power output and (as everyone has mentioned) therefore less leg drive and upward momentum.




Less knee bend in your serve will will also improve the elastic power.

Tennis_Monk
04-15-2008, 04:25 PM
How did you get the slow motion part? what software did you use?

Nellie
04-15-2008, 04:56 PM
To my eye, it looks that you could improve your toss by tossing more straight up (in the video, the ball goes forward) and by tossing at a lower point around shoulder/ head height (in the video, the ball leaves your hand above your head)

I would also leave your tossing hand up for longer - it drops too soon.

aimr75
04-18-2008, 05:30 PM
How did you get the slow motion part? what software did you use?

there was a software package that came with the camera called motionDV Studio, though apps like windows movie maker can do slow motion as well
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Rafael_Nadal_6257
04-18-2008, 06:27 PM
Uthree: Less knee bend will improve "elastic power"?? Are you sure about that? Knee bend should improve one's elasticity...for pretty obvious reasons...

Nellie: The ball is supposed to go forward for anything above a beginner serve for increased pace and depth. I agree with the tossing hand part though; it helps you to keep your head up and should increase your serve accuracy.

Uthree
04-19-2008, 02:16 AM
[QUOTE=Rafael_Nadal_6257;2264035]Uthree: Less knee bend will improve "elastic power"?? Are you sure about that? Knee bend should improve one's elasticity...for pretty obvious reasons...

QUOTE]

We can have too much OR too little knee bend. Less is more efficient than too much. From the PRO ranks Tim Henman had a similar issue with his serve.

ckthegreek
04-19-2008, 02:48 AM
I've just finished the PTR course and this is the first time I'll put my error detection into practice :)

So... nice rythmic action, good toss and you're bending your knees at the right time.

Some issues in the order I'd tackle them.

1) You have a low elbow when you take your racquet back. Pause vid at 0:06 seconds. Remedy: Tap your back twice with the racquet when you take your racquet back. This will force you to raise your elbow. Do it about 5 -6 times slowly and then try serve normally.

2) As others have mentioned for the amount of knee bend you're putting in you're not getting the expected amount of height as you strike the ball. Try push/spring up (you may have to adjust your toss accordingly). If you have no luck you either a) work on strengthening your legs or b) do away with the bend altogether as you're wasting energy unnecessarily.

hope this helps!

tennisdad65
04-19-2008, 05:46 AM
That looks like a 1st serve. It looks good.
Post your second serve video. That is more important.

NLBwell
04-19-2008, 09:10 PM
Aimr75- generally a pretty nice serve. You aren't getting the full stretch out of your upper body. If you look at the end of second 15 into the start of 16, you can see a nice angle from your front foot to your front hip. However, there is little angle between your hip and your tossing shoulder. You need to have the upper body back further. (look like a bow) You should feel the stretch along the front of your body from the hip to your arm. A possible reason for this is that you throw the toss so far into the court that you feel you have to reach forward for it. You need to keep the upper body back longer to get the stretch. Don't know whether this will affect the timing/position of your toss, I'd have to be on the court with you, but it is likely. As far as you legs go, they are OK (I'm not a big fan of big leg bend, but it isn't hurting you a lot), the problem is caused by the upper body/toss, as I have described because they are not pushing against anything (ie. coiled up body), they are just moving you toward the ball.

ckthe greek is correct about your elbow, since the racket head is not dropped below the elbow until late in the swing, for a lot of the time you are "pushing" the racket instead of cataputing it. Only towards the end does the elbow really get in front of the racket and "throw" it.

aimr75
04-20-2008, 04:40 AM
thanks for these tips..

nlbwell, i never really considered the whole foot/hip/tossing shoulder positioning that consititutes the body coiling.. with the elbow postioning..in terms of the racquet head dropping, i'm only doing what feels natural, so never took this into account.. should i be dropping sooner in the motion?

ckthegreek, i will give the drill a go for the elbow, thanks
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5263
04-20-2008, 11:23 AM
aim,
the racket should seem to drop as the legs drive the body up.

Shashwat
04-20-2008, 03:09 PM
Nice serve. But i think you can add more pace to the ball. I haven't read previous posts but you have everything right until contact with the ball. You seem to hit it gently and take a step in. Jump into the ball and explode into it.

And also, I noticed that you don't use your back and hips too much. I definitely recommend twist your hips and back as you go into the ball, and for that I know a drill called the Sampras Drill. Stand in a spilt step position on the baseline as you face the net and serve without moving your legs. The point is that you have to twist your hips/back to face the back fence as you serve. You will start to feel it in your abs and back.

Do that drill and serve about 50 balls. I guarantee you that you can add more pace and spin to your serves if you have more hip/back action and explode into the ball rather than just take a step in. Hope this helps, good luck.

NLBwell
04-20-2008, 07:13 PM
amir75 - It doesn't matter that much when you drop the head of the racket back, just that you have it back as you start to "fling" the racket upward. It looks like the head of the racket never really gets below your head as you are coming forward. Try hitting some serves starting with your elbow up and the head of the racket touching your back. This will get you the feel of it. Also, maybe after that you can try things like ckthegreek's idea of making sure it touches your back.