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user92626
04-16-2008, 08:56 AM
Hi All,

There're several posts on fh topspin, could someone detail the steps to produce 2hbh topspin?

Do grips matter in this?


My 2hbh shots are just paced and flat. When I try brushing or hitting low to high the ball often sails long :(

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Thanks.

Djokovicfan4life
04-16-2008, 09:08 AM
Try a semi western/continental combination and make sure you're swinging low to high. The technique is much more important than the grip though. Different grips just offer more ways to develop solid technique.

user92626
04-16-2008, 10:12 AM
swinging low to high.

This is very general. How much low to high?
:confused:

Djokovicfan4life
04-16-2008, 10:26 AM
This is very general. How much low to high?
:confused:

Depends on how much topspin you want to hit. Like Nadal or like Blake?

Big difference.

soyizgood
04-16-2008, 10:36 AM
Hi All,

There're several posts on fh topspin, could someone detail the steps to produce 2hbh topspin?

Do grips matter in this?


My 2hbh shots are just paced and flat. When I try brushing or hitting low to high the ball often sails long :(

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Thanks.

Try hitting the ball earlier and above the waist. Easier to hit spin when you don't have much downward pressure to fight and you can impart spin more consistently with less effort. I can hit topspin 2HBH in any of the main combinations. The key is to hit the ball before it dips down as much as possible. Trying to hit topspin on balls below the knee-level is often a recipe for disaster, regardless of 2HBH grip. It can be done, but you have to put a bit of touch to prevent the ball from flying out.

dakels
04-16-2008, 12:48 PM
Topspin comes from, of course, a low to high motion. That low to high motion can come from several things.

1: Racquet swing: A good low to high motion is as simple as it sounds. Starting the racquet lower then the contact point of the ball and accelerating up through the shot.

2: Body movement: Like the sit and lift technique, bending your knees to start lower and lifting up through the shot will enhance that low to high motion.

3: Racquet head angle change/torquing: This is mostly controlled by your wrist and elbow. It involves a slight drop of the racquet head (head pointing down) and pulling/torquing the racquet head up through the contact point utilizing rotational force to add topspin to the shot.

People who hit a pretty decent topspin backhand usually utilize all 3 of these aspects well. High level players often utilize the 3rd aspect, torque, to higher and lower degrees based on the situation. That torque is the final element before ball strike and can radically change the shot path and spin.

So then how do you start to utilize those effects into your 2h BH? [I am not going to go into basics, just elements to help with topspin on 2h BH. I am going to assume you know or are learning about footwork, shoulder rotation, head down, etc]

I would first start to understand the specific mechanics of your swing and start with the basics. Do you use a big backswing loop? Do you bend you knees? High follow through?

Backswing: A loop is a very effective generator of power and spin, as most of us know. If you don't have much of a loop, you can start bringing your racquet back lower. If you have a loop, loop it lower. Racquet should be level to [possibly - read ahead] 10-20 degrees angle down. [warning!] You can also start experimenting with dropping the racquet head a little bit. I only suggest this for more advanced players or serious stroke development as it can be difficult to control. If you have an inconsistant backhand, I'd advise just keeping the racquet fairly level on backswing and minimize the loop and torquing.

During the backswing and prep phase, make sure you are bending the knees very well. The contact point elevation of a 2h BH should be controlled by your knees as much as possible, not your back (bending over) or dropping your racquet head. Your knees should be bent and working like an elevator bringing your body up or down for the ball. Always anticipate lifting up into the shot, never down. Which means simply, START LOW. Knee bend will allow you to hit a good topspin backhand even with a ball 12" off the ground.

Mid swing: Don't worry about lifting up. Your body should do this naturally provided your set up nice and low. Focus on accelerating your racquet head up through the ball while leaning forward, all weight on lead leg. For 6-12 topspin, you will really have to focus on keeping the racquet face flat (straight up and down, and directly facing the angle you intend on hitting, which should already have been predicated by your footwork and shoulder setup). However your grip the racquet is up to you as long as the end result is a flat racquet face at contact. If that means more wrist pronation with a backhand grip, over a continental, so be it.

DO NOT PULL YOUR ELBOWS IN ACROSS YOUR BODY! Many people do this and this, more often then not, causes flat shots when everything else would have lead to a topspin shot. Extend up high, not pull across low.

Follow through: Key element here is HIGH follow through over the shoulders. Do not finish your shots across your chest. Your off hand will really help drive that follow through. Where your racquet finishes and how much spin you generate will be affected by that torquing factor. Turning the off handed wrist over on the shot is generally beneficial. In most cases you want to finish your backhand with your hands over your shoulder. Almost like trying to scratch your back with the racquet.

Video time!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw2J-qkmqGc&NR=1
Notice in the Hanchutova video... Big loop, helps her generate momentum, especially in a situation where she knows she won't be able to derive much power from her body since she is on the run. You will also notice the racquet head drop. As she makes contact she starts to turn her wrist up and over, striking the outside of the ball. If she kept her wrists up going mostly up, lots of topspin. By going up and turning the wrists over, she is able to curl the shot back crosscourt on an otherwise difficult angle. Check out the high finish well over the shoulders.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8YnISqx0oU
Here you can see the torquing effect. Roddick enhances this by gripping a little higher (notice how much space he has to the butt end). This allows for more of a fulcrum motion and thus, more rotational torque being applied to sweep the ball upward. Notice the head stays down through the shot.



Start drilling!
I would start with easy drills, hitting fairly soft. Work on fundamental basics and aim for 5' over the net. Focus on knee bend, proper contact, and high follow through.
Think:
-low
-through
-high

good luck

Vision84
04-16-2008, 12:54 PM
Great post dakels but I don't know if I would ever use Roddick's backhand for teaching someone what they need to do. :lol:

Not much left to be said but one thing I will emphasize that many of my students have done is that they thinking of pulling up to get topspin but then they lift their head or straighten the back knee causing them to mess up. Ensure you keep your back leg bent and your head down through the shot so your body doesn't lift like that. Another thing I will emphasize is make sure you don't have an open racket face when hitting the ball. A lot of my more beginner level students do this and of course get height over the net but no spin.

dakels
04-16-2008, 01:03 PM
Yea haha. I wasted more time trying to find a non roddick video then writing the post. But it does show a good example of the toggle and slightly off grip he uses. That particular shot isn't too bad. Head stays down, good contact point in front, decent finish. I kept trying to find a nadal video but the only slow motion ones were very poor. In fact most of the 2hBH slow mo shots are horrible examples showing abnormal compensation swings.

Look at these terrible examples:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bp9pYcAlFWE&NR=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4lqTchogAOk&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jjqssvrc1cQ&feature=related

Vision84
04-16-2008, 01:27 PM
In fact most of the 2hBH slow mo shots are horrible examples showing abnormal compensation swings.

Nadal in a nutshell. But that is a different story. ;)

I am a member of hi-techtennis which offers excellent instruction and a good number of 2handed backhand videos of pros close up. The site offers a lot of other instruction and many more videos of strokes if you are interested. Very good value for the money.

Djokovicfan4life
04-16-2008, 02:56 PM
That backhand with Clijsters looked downright hideous.

Rickson
04-16-2008, 03:31 PM
Hi All,

There're several posts on fh topspin, could someone detail the steps to produce 2hbh topspin?

Do grips matter in this?


My 2hbh shots are just paced and flat. When I try brushing or hitting low to high the ball often sails long :(

HELP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Thanks.


Hit from low to high without such a high trajectory and your balls should land inside the line.

Double Fault
04-17-2008, 07:19 AM
Just hit the ball early. I've found that if I hit the ball in front of me, topspin comes naturally with the finishing of the swing. Also, hit low to high, of course.

Step in to the ball and watch how the parabola changes completely.

doogoshly
04-17-2008, 08:17 AM
figure out the right grip and the topspin will come. that's the only thing a 2hbh can do when done right. i mean, you could hit it flat as well but no way you're gonna get a slice out of it.

dakels
04-17-2008, 08:32 AM
figure out the right grip and the topspin will come. that's the only thing a 2hbh can do when done right. i mean, you could hit it flat as well but no way you're gonna get a slice out of it.
:-| :confused: what?

Djokovicfan4life
04-17-2008, 08:34 AM
figure out the right grip and the topspin will come. that's the only thing a 2hbh can do when done right. i mean, you could hit it flat as well but no way you're gonna get a slice out of it.

Ummm, Fabrice Santoro? Technically it's his forehand, but still............ :confused:

Nellie
04-17-2008, 08:39 AM
What I do with the kids is have them hit looping, lob-like backhands. During the stroke, bring the racquet from the starting position down as low as possible near the ground, up to contact teh ball, and finish over your right shoulder (if you are a righty). Keep your racquet face vertical and hit the offensive lobs with as much topspin as possible. Once you get the feel for the stroke and hit it consistently, you can work on decreasing the arch and developing a feel.

soyizgood
04-17-2008, 09:06 AM
Just watch Nalbandian's backhand on youtube. Especially the video of the 2005 Master's Cup. He OWNED Federer with his backhand repeatedly.

TheGreatestAudia
04-17-2008, 12:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cw2J-qkmqGc&NR=1
Notice in the Hanchutova video...


Is this video of Hantuchova in real-time? (That was too easy.)