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View Full Version : Can anyone see the yellow ball on red clay on TV?


BreakPoint
04-21-2008, 02:50 AM
I'm watching the matches from the Masters Monte Carlo and I can't see the ball at all because the yellow ball just blends in with the orange colored court. All I see are two guys swinging their arms and hearing the thud of the ball when it hits their racquets but I can't see where the ball is going. I have the same problem with all the European red clay tournaments, not just this one. Very frustrating.

Who else thinks they should change the color of the ball to purple or a dark blue or maybe even black so they it contrasts the color of the orange colored clay on TV much better?

Jonnyf
04-21-2008, 03:00 AM
Hmm, I can still see it although it's rather awkward.

Salsa_Lover
04-21-2008, 03:00 AM
I can see the yellow ball here, I get Eurosport and maybe their quality is better.

Anyhow they make tennis balls in many colors, being yellowish green the official which i think is quite allrigth for the visibility from the players point of view

http://source-www.petco.com/assets/product_images/4/4258355295A.jpg

PascalMariaFan
04-21-2008, 03:02 AM
The ball becomes visible later on in the day.

But I agree, the color of the ball should be changed.

westside
04-21-2008, 04:03 AM
The fact that the camera's are up so high doesn't really help either

Vlad
04-21-2008, 04:14 AM
Rome is usually better with camera angle... Monte Carlo has this problem... but if you look at Court des Princes it is better there.

Sentinel
04-21-2008, 04:17 AM
I'm watching downloads of Estoril and altho I can make out the ball, its not so clear and that makes it less interesting. What's worse is that the camera is quite high up which makes the players look small, and all the fun's gone.

I've had similar problems watching recordings of old FO's.

jmverdugo
04-21-2008, 04:20 AM
In last years RG it was basically impossible for me to see the ball, I actually bought DirectTV just to see the ball, let see how it end up.

cujays
04-21-2008, 05:24 AM
i have to see the ball
if i cant i cant watch it
were you watching on ttc

tintin
04-21-2008, 05:26 AM
anyone has a good link that is working please?

sunflowerhx
04-21-2008, 05:28 AM
They should change the colour of the CLAY.

Povl Carstensen
04-21-2008, 05:29 AM
I think the problem also lies in lcd/flatscreen televisions. They, or some of them, are to slow. The ball disappears when its moving to fast, appears again when its slower, being tossed etc.

daddy
04-21-2008, 05:52 AM
I think the problem also lies in lcd/flatscreen televisions. They, or some of them, are to slow. The ball disappears when its moving to fast, appears again when its slower, being tossed etc.

Actually if TV has a slow reaction time like 8ms then the ball shoud be more visible. I choose to watch on 44" lcd with 8ms rather than on 32" with 5ms, the ball leaves a trail just enough that I can see it perfectly on the bigger slower one.

herosol
04-21-2008, 05:53 AM
that's the only good reason for U.S. Men's Claycourt Championships.

The camera is like BAM right there.

Salsa_Lover
04-21-2008, 06:00 AM
I have a plasma so no problems with the moving objects here, LCD TVs on the other side have those problems.

WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis
04-21-2008, 06:28 AM
I usually can't see it until it actually hits the ground on the other side of the court, but flying through the air: no. I switched to the plasma TV though in the LR so that did help a lot. If the camera angle was lower, I think that would help more.

simi
04-21-2008, 06:34 AM
I think the problem also lies in lcd/flatscreen televisions. They, or some of them, are to slow. The ball disappears when its moving to fast, appears again when its slower, being tossed etc.

I got an old fashioned cathode ray tube, and could not see the ball during the Murray/Lopez match. Sometimes, after the bounce in the court nearest the camera the ball is visible. Otherwise, they could just as well be playing phantom tennis.

eric892
04-21-2008, 06:37 AM
Yeah same here. I was watching Ferrero vs Llodra and I couldn't see the ball. It just blend with the court color. It is so frustrating! I think watching them play at night will be better than in the afternoon.

crawl4
04-21-2008, 06:44 AM
murray v lopez was hard to see..it was impossible to see the ball during flight..i have a plasma as well :mad:

WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis
04-21-2008, 07:19 AM
What colour might ones suggest as an alternative if one could? I was thinking green. White wouldn't be much better I guess.

Ocean Drive
04-21-2008, 07:28 AM
So you cant see the ball and you want them to make the ball darker? That wont help you see it any better...

I can see it absolutely clearly, do you wear glasses or need glasses?

The ball will get dirty with the clay so it will start to have bits of orange in it, which I am sure doesn't help your cause.

daddy
04-21-2008, 07:30 AM
What colour might ones suggest as an alternative if one could? I was thinking green. White wouldn't be much better I guess.

I am sure that given the speed of the balls and their size no colour will help make them visible on a sunny day on red clay if you set up a wrong camera angle. If it was a bit cloudy or later in the day it would be ok.

Ocean Drive
04-21-2008, 07:41 AM
Well the players come first, they wont change the colour to suit some viewers with eye problems. Yellow is by far the best colour to play with. Everybody I know, can see the ball fine, on tv, it is only sometimes on the internet it is difficult to see the ball, for me, anyway.

fantom
04-21-2008, 07:46 AM
I was watching Monte Carlo this morning (TTC, 50 inch plasma). I couldn't see the ball until after the bounce. Very frustrating!

WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis
04-21-2008, 07:58 AM
I am sure that given the speed of the balls and their size no colour will help make them visible on a sunny day on red clay if you set up a wrong camera angle. If it was a bit cloudy or later in the day it would be ok.

I realize that, and know well about speed and size of tennis balls. (?) I don't understand this comment. I've watched many matches in stadium on red clay both in Germany and France. It's what I grew up playing on.

I was just asking an opinion question for those who happened to be watching on TVs at the moment and complained of the low visibility.

Well the players come first, they wont change the colour to suit some viewers with eye problems. Yellow is by far the best colour to play with. Everybody I know, can see the ball fine, on tv, it is only sometimes on the internet it is difficult to see the ball, for me, anyway.

Why would one make the comment that one has an eye problem because one can't see the ball well on TV? "The universe is full of dead people who lived by assumption." As mentioned above, its the type of TV that's giving the problem, not eye problems by the viewers. Of course directors wouldn't change the colour of the balls to suit viewers...who suggested that? One merely asked a question.

flyer
04-21-2008, 08:01 AM
i cant beleive how ridiculously slow the clay at monte carlo is

flyer
04-21-2008, 08:22 AM
I was watching Monte Carlo this morning (TTC, 50 inch plasma). I couldn't see the ball until after the bounce. Very frustrating!

you better get your money back then because I watching on the lowest quality on atpmastersseries.tv on like a 14 inch screen and i can see the ball before it bouces

need2bfit
04-21-2008, 08:31 AM
Has anyone tried adjusting the color settings on the tv? I wonder if that'd help.

Jhm37
04-21-2008, 08:42 AM
I lower both the brightness and the color saturation, and that helps some, but seeing the ball from Monte Carlo over the Tennis Channel has always been a problem. I've seen video from other sources where it's not so bad. It's that high camera angle that's the real issue. From cameras closer to the court I have no trouble seeing the ball.

agarasbattier
04-21-2008, 08:51 AM
I can see the ball fine. Obviously, it is not as easy to see as on the courts of the US Open or the Sony Ericsson Open, but I can still see the ball clearly on all of our TVs.

Nadal_Freak
04-21-2008, 09:01 AM
i cant beleive how ridiculously slow the clay at monte carlo is
Welcome to Clay Season. :) Monte Carlo looks the slowest to me as well. Slower than Hamburg with a higher bounce.

fantom
04-21-2008, 09:26 AM
you better get your money back then because I watching on the lowest quality on atpmastersseries.tv on like a 14 inch screen and i can see the ball before it bouces


It's not the TV. Trust me.

carol4832
04-21-2008, 09:38 AM
It is hard to see.

Nadal_Monfils
04-21-2008, 10:20 AM
It seems like the problem is that the camera angle is too high up. They switched to the Santoro match with a lower angle and I could see the ball fine. They even went to the low angle for a game of the Murray-Lopez match and I could see the ball but then they went back to the high angle and it was hard to see. The only problem with the low angle is you can't see both players but seeing the ball is more important.

stormholloway
04-21-2008, 10:23 AM
The problem is that TTC always has poor video quality for the clay season.

Lendl and Federer Fan
04-21-2008, 10:52 AM
I have Tennis Channel in HD, and I can barely see the ball. The color of the court and ball should be very contrast to each other. The easier thing to do is just to change the ball.

stormholloway
04-21-2008, 10:57 AM
Tennis Channel doesn't broadcast in HD to my knowledge. Do you mean you have an HDTV and TTC?

I have an HDTV but Tennis Channel is in standard format.

LeftyServe
04-21-2008, 11:53 AM
TTC does have HD, but it's only for certain events and shows. MC is simply a feed from Europe, so no HD. I think they'll be doing RG in HD this year.

fantom
04-21-2008, 11:59 AM
I have an HDTV but Tennis Channel is in standard format.

Same here.

BreakPoint
04-21-2008, 12:50 PM
In last years RG it was basically impossible for me to see the ball, I actually bought DirectTV just to see the ball, let see how it end up.
I'm not sure if DirecTV will help since it's the same broadcasts from ESPN or NBC or Tennis Channel using the same cameras and feeds.

BreakPoint
04-21-2008, 12:51 PM
i have to see the ball
if i cant i cant watch it
were you watching on ttc
Yes, I was watching it on Tennis Channel and it was basically a waste of time as I just couldn't see the ball at all (Ferrero vs. Llodra match).

BreakPoint
04-21-2008, 12:53 PM
I got an old fashioned cathode ray tube, and could not see the ball during the Murray/Lopez match. Sometimes, after the bounce in the court nearest the camera the ball is visible. Otherwise, they could just as well be playing phantom tennis.
Same here. I was also watching it on an old-fashioned 27 inch CRT TV.

BreakPoint
04-21-2008, 12:55 PM
What colour might ones suggest as an alternative if one could? I was thinking green. White wouldn't be much better I guess.
On the color spectrum chart, purple is supposed to be the opposite of orange so it should provide the most contrast.

BreakPoint
04-21-2008, 12:58 PM
Well the players come first, they wont change the colour to suit some viewers with eye problems. Yellow is by far the best colour to play with. Everybody I know, can see the ball fine, on tv, it is only sometimes on the internet it is difficult to see the ball, for me, anyway.
Have you read the others posts in this thread? It seems most people here also CANNOT see the ball on TV. You seem to be one of the very few people here who can. If I have eye problems then how come I can see the ball fine on every other surface except red clay?

dbh1960
04-21-2008, 01:17 PM
For now anyway, TTC in HD is a Directv exclusive. The US Claycourt Championship was on a reddish (but not as red as European) clay, and it was incredible. The best HD tennis I've ever seen (at least technically; too bad Blake folded like a cheap suit)-and needless to say, no problem picking up the ball. The broadcast from Monte Carlo has historically been the worst of the clay court season. Older SD cameras + bad camera position + standards conversion (PAL to NTSC) could be the problem(s)...

jmverdugo
04-21-2008, 04:28 PM
I'm not sure if DirecTV will help since it's the same broadcasts from ESPN or NBC or Tennis Channel using the same cameras and feeds.

Yes I know what you mean, I just thought that i could not see the ball because bad quality in the "cable" transmision, in turned out that now I can "clearly" not see the ball :-?

stormholloway
04-21-2008, 04:52 PM
I'm watching it right now and have no idea where the ball is.

edmondsm
04-21-2008, 04:56 PM
What if it was a deep blue, or even black?

TheTruth
04-21-2008, 05:10 PM
For me, I think it's a matter of my eyes adjusting. At the beginning of the clay court season I can almost never see the ball, but after the first few tournaments my eyes get trained and all is well!

nadalfan!
04-21-2008, 05:12 PM
HD pays off. Lol. :D

IvanAndreevich
04-21-2008, 05:28 PM
What if it was a deep blue, or even black?

I guess in night matches there is a problem with darker colours.

Djokovicfan4life
04-21-2008, 05:30 PM
They should just paint the ball neon green and get it over with.

0range
04-21-2008, 05:32 PM
The fact that the camera's are up so high doesn't really help either

Rome is usually better with camera angle... Monte Carlo has this problem... but if you look at Court des Princes it is better there.

Exactly. It's more of a problem with the camera angle. I see the ball just fine at Court des Princes even with low resolution.

TonyB
04-21-2008, 05:33 PM
Just wanted to throw my voice out there on this topic.

Monte Carlo coverage on the Tennis Channel == unwatchable


The ball is actually impossible to see. My TV is decent and I can't see it at all. It makes the tennis unwatchable.

Very disappointing.

Databank
04-21-2008, 05:38 PM
Agreed... watching red clay Tennis Channel non-hi-def on a hi-def tv is impossible!

Lendl and Federer Fan
04-21-2008, 05:50 PM
No, we have Tennis Channel in HD 24hr here in the states. :)

daddy
04-21-2008, 05:57 PM
I realize that, and know well about speed and size of tennis balls. (?) I don't understand this comment. I've watched many matches in stadium on red clay both in Germany and France. It's what I grew up playing on.

I was just asking an opinion question for those who happened to be watching on TVs at the moment and complained of the low visibility.


Well you asked if green would be better. I told you that given all the facts no colour will help - that is my opinion. Btw the fact I emphesized is 'if you set up a wrong camera angle' ... So what exactly dont you understand ?

Btw - I play on clay and grew up on it. I see the ball well when I watch form stands or play. This morning I could not see the ball in some matches as well as in RG for example.

WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis
04-21-2008, 06:02 PM
Well you asked if green would be better. I told you that given all the facts no colour will help - that is my opinion. So what exactly dont you understand ?

Btw - I play on clay and grew up on it. I see the ball well when I watch form stands or play. This morning I could not see the ball in some matches as well as in RG for example.

I didn't understand why you mentioned speed of ball and size of ball because I would think most people who post on this board know what size a standard tennis ball is, and that if its hit with any type of force it will have speed. Not trying to be silly or anything, I was just puzzled in case you meant something else.

Fedace
04-21-2008, 06:08 PM
I am looking at the Ferrero match right now and i Can't see the ball either. Sit about 3 feet away from the TV, it will be little better. I think we all should send a request to TTC to put on a tracer on the Tennis ball. Like the NHL hockey does with the puck.

NoBadMojo
04-21-2008, 06:45 PM
I'm going to guess that TTC isnt using state of the art equipment and technology and that the signal they are presenting us with is pretty low quality even for hi def. that seems to make sense based upon their quality of programming and everything else about the network seems cut rate to me.
I am watching this on a 47" 1080p lcd and TTC is indicating a hi def broadcast, and the balls comes in and out of visibility on my tv. they seem to keep parts of the court watered and it is darker there so there is some contrast between ball and court and i can see the ball when passing thru those areas...where the court is dry it is very light in colour and the ball gets lost in those areas
as far as lcds having slow refresh rates...that was in the good old days.

daddy
04-21-2008, 07:21 PM
I didn't understand why you mentioned speed of ball and size of ball because I would think most people who post on this board know what size a standard tennis ball is, and that if its hit with any type of force it will have speed. Not trying to be silly or anything, I was just puzzled in case you meant something else.

Well it was just a figure of speech so to say. I know you know the size and speed of the tennis ball, why else would you be here. ;) Misunderstanding.

Lee James
04-21-2008, 07:24 PM
I have a hard time seeing the ball as well, especially at roland garros during the midday matches.

Rabbit
04-22-2008, 03:55 AM
TTC is using the European feed, ergo their equipment. I believe TTC is scheduled to go HiDef for the tournaments they cover and when they do, the broadcasts will be as HiDef as anyone else's.

They are also, thank the Good Lord, using Eurpean announcers.

The high angle above the court makes it impossible to see the ball. When they use a closer angle, you can see it. I have been watching Grosjean/Karlovic this morning and they are using a good angle.

pound cat
04-22-2008, 04:17 AM
I'm watching on ESPN Internatonal and it's just fine & I'm sure camerawork has a lot to do with it. Sounds as if TTC bought the ESPN broadcasts.

dubsplayer
04-22-2008, 06:14 AM
Every year it's the same thing. The ball is always hard to see on CC in MC. I've been watching this tournament on TV since the early 90's when ESPN broadcast it. I've watched it on plain 28" color TV to a flat screen to a 42" plasma.

It is slightly better then in the olden days.

Pound Car - TTC broadcasts the ATP's international feed - the one with Jason Goodall, Doug Adler, Robbie Koenig commentating.

norcal
04-22-2008, 07:26 AM
that's the only good reason for U.S. Men's Claycourt Championships.

The camera is like BAM right there. Exactly. That is where the camera should be. Monte Carlo is a joke, totally unwatchable. Do they not watch their own feed?

TheShaun
04-22-2008, 07:31 AM
glad i'm not the only person who has this problem. i think if the camera angle was changed that would help.

DJG
04-22-2008, 07:41 AM
I have to agree that a lot of it has to do with the (crappy) camera angle. Hopefully it gets somewhat better as the week progresses. (Or hopefully we just get used to it...)

tzinc
04-22-2008, 08:01 AM
so what colour should they change to: dark blue, green, neon green, black - what would work day AND night?

surfvland
04-22-2008, 11:36 AM
I have a fifty inch plaz. and am experiencing the same problem. Funny when I think back on watching the Federer Gasquet final a few years ago, I remember seeing the ball fine. Someone should email the production department at the T Channel with a link to this thread.

dubsplayer
04-22-2008, 04:34 PM
I have a fifty inch plaz. and am experiencing the same problem. Funny when I think back on watching the Federer Gasquet final a few years ago, I remember seeing the ball fine. Someone should email the production department at the T Channel with a link to this thread..

TC doesn't have anything to do with where the camera is placed. It isn't their production. It also has always been this way. And every year there is a thread about it.

WillAlwaysLoveYouTennis
04-22-2008, 07:01 PM
Well it was just a figure of speech so to say. I know you know the size and speed of the tennis ball, why else would you be here. ;) Misunderstanding.

Yes, no problem, I read english pretty good, but sometimes I do wonder if I missed something. Wasn't trying to be stupid.

Rabbit
04-22-2008, 08:33 PM
Exactly. That is where the camera should be. Monte Carlo is a joke, totally unwatchable. Do they not watch their own feed?

Dude, think about it...it's Monte Carlo....only the "little people" watch their tournament on TV... ;)

Sentinel
04-22-2008, 10:29 PM
Was just first watching the Seppi Calleri match - fine angle, ball v clear.

Then they shifted to Djoko-Lubricic and the angle went higher, and ball hard to make out. Can't figure who won a point often if the ball was on other side.

quest01
04-22-2008, 10:32 PM
I was watching some of the Monte Carlo Masters coverage on TTC a little earlier today and I was having some difficulty seeing the ball also. The behind camera angle makes the court look about a mile long. Also trying to see the ball is like watching some of the Tennis clips on You tube.

sureshs
04-23-2008, 10:42 AM
I have to strain my eyes to catch the ball against the background. The ball disappears while in flight and shows up at the bounce. The camera also seems to be positioned too far.

TNT16
04-23-2008, 01:33 PM
The broadcast from Monte Carlo has historically been the worst of the clay court season. Older SD cameras + bad camera position + standards conversion (PAL to NTSC) could be the problem(s)...

That's the answer I think - all makes sense to me - and the ball can actually be seen when the camera angle changes (on courts other than center court).

Agree with all that watching the center court matches is a game of guessing where the ball is (except for the replays which provide some relief).

Having said all that - thank God for The Tennis Channel - and them covering the tournament (even though ATP website does not show that in their worldwide TV listings) . . . I would much rather see these matches and try to guess where the ball is than not to be able to watch them at all!

coloskier
04-23-2008, 01:36 PM
It was a little better today, because of the cloud cover. You could actually see the ball about 75% of the time. As soon as the sun comes out and brightens up the clay, all bets are off.

CEvertFan
04-23-2008, 04:32 PM
The camera angle combined with the sun makes it extremely difficult to see the ball, no matter what type of TV you have. It was a bit better today watching the Federer/Hidalgo match only because it was overcast.

Ocean Drive
04-23-2008, 05:36 PM
I realize that, and know well about speed and size of tennis balls. (?) I don't understand this comment. I've watched many matches in stadium on red clay both in Germany and France. It's what I grew up playing on.

I was just asking an opinion question for those who happened to be watching on TVs at the moment and complained of the low visibility.



Why would one make the comment that one has an eye problem because one can't see the ball well on TV? "The universe is full of dead people who lived by assumption." As mentioned above, its the type of TV that's giving the problem, not eye problems by the viewers. Of course directors wouldn't change the colour of the balls to suit viewers...who suggested that? One merely asked a question.

I am using the same kind of television and see the ball perfectly fine, people complain of this every year, DIFFERENT PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT TELEVISION SETS, same thing, every year...new day, same problem. I have seen the ball clearly on 5 different set's in the past few years.

They have eye problems, they may need to check out the opticians.

TennisProdigy
04-23-2008, 05:38 PM
I have no trouble following the ball, just watch their follow through.

BreakPoint
04-23-2008, 06:32 PM
I am using the same kind of television and see the ball perfectly fine, people complain of this every year, DIFFERENT PEOPLE WITH DIFFERENT TELEVISION SETS, same thing, every year...new day, same problem. I have seen the ball clearly on 5 different set's in the past few years.

They have eye problems, they may need to check out the opticians.
So do you also wear a tight top with a big "S" on the chest and a cape? ;) :lol: LOL

stormholloway
04-23-2008, 06:41 PM
TTC is using the European feed, ergo their equipment. I believe TTC is scheduled to go HiDef for the tournaments they cover and when they do, the broadcasts will be as HiDef as anyone else's.

They are also, thank the Good Lord, using Eurpean announcers.

The high angle above the court makes it impossible to see the ball. When they use a closer angle, you can see it. I have been watching Grosjean/Karlovic this morning and they are using a good angle.

I've noticed that when there's cloud cover, you can see the ball a lot better since the sun isn't reflecting off the clay (this is my theory).

By the way Rabbit, I've been reading your string reviews. Very good stuff. I'm going to be copying your Gut/Xtreme hybrid soon. Hope you're no longer forlorn.