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View Full Version : Rabbit and Dedan's: A C10 question for you.


AndrewD
04-22-2008, 04:31 AM
I know that you've both trialled the t10mp GenII and I was wondering what you feel to be the key performance differences between it and the C10.

In particular, I'm curious to know whether or not you think the C10 offers a more solid/substantial hit than the Gen2 - a racquet I used for quite some time but always felt to be somewhat 'shrill' or 'thin' in its response.

Thanks.

bad_call
04-22-2008, 05:30 AM
AndrewD - i'm neither Rabbit or Dedan however have hit a bit with the C10. the C10 is a very solid racquet. IMO - i wouldnt want to use a racquet with any more power than the C10...need to string it towards the higher tension to reign in shot depth.

fuzz nation
04-22-2008, 06:05 AM
I'm using the C10 on a regular basis and I've found it to carry more weight to the ball than the T10 Gen II. I go to net routinely, so I really like that stability in the C10. That Tour 10 Gen II is a plush racquet, but for me, the plow through just wasn't there when I tried it out.

Rabbit
04-22-2008, 08:56 AM
I agree in full with both of the other two posts. The Gen II, as you said very well, is thinner in feel than the C10. The C10, especially when centered, has a great feel and rewards the user with a great ball.

The Gen II was advertised as having fibreglass in its layup while the C10 has kevlar. But I swear that the C10 is a better hit than the Gen II and has better all-around feel than any other racket in the lineup save the Gen I which I feel was the best in the lineage that I've played with. 3rd place honors go to the V10.

To your question though, the C10 absolutely provides a more solid hit than the Gen II. Unlike bad call though, I string mine one pound under mid with polyester. With gut, probably one pound over. I also agree with the statement that the C10 is just right in terms of power. I find that I can generate all the power I need with it in stock form.

Edit: If you want anything more specific, please feel free to ask. I never mind talking about the C10.

drak
04-22-2008, 10:22 AM
I agree in full with both of the other two posts. The Gen II, as you said very well, is thinner in feel than the C10. The C10, especially when centered, has a great feel and rewards the user with a great ball.

The Gen II was advertised as having fibreglass in its layup while the C10 has kevlar. But I swear that the C10 is a better hit than the Gen II and has better all-around feel than any other racket in the lineup save the Gen I which I feel was the best in the lineage that I've played with. 3rd place honors go to the V10.

To your question though, the C10 absolutely provides a more solid hit than the Gen II. Unlike bad call though, I string mine one pound under mid with polyester. With gut, probably one pound over. I also agree with the statement that the C10 is just right in terms of power. I find that I can generate all the power I need with it in stock form.

Edit: If you want anything more specific, please feel free to ask. I never mind talking about the C10.

Hey Rabbit how ya doin? I was curious if you had tired the new Becker Pro yet, it seems like a racket you and I might like with perhaps a little weight added (3/10-5/10 oz?) - perhaps a more powerful CatV8? and one that serves well.
Appreciate any feedback you have.

Drak

AndrewD
04-22-2008, 02:01 PM
Thanks very much to everyone who has responded. I addressed the question to Rabbit and Dedans as they were the only ones I was certain used the C10 users but am happy to hear from everyone who has used it and the Gen2.

I think that one issue I had with the Gen2 is the stiffness. I was under the impression that it was a flexible racquet and it probably is, in comparison to a Pure Drive or even a PS85, but not in relation to my Prince Graphite Comp and Prestige Pro (the original 1987 model). I notice that the USRSA rates it at 64 for stiffness, which seems more in line with how I perceived it than TW's rating of 61.

The other issue is that, apart from my serve, I am predominantly a touch player which means that, essentially, I 'place' , not 'hit' the ball (hopefully people can understand the distinction I'm making). What I found is that the Gen2 required me to 'hit' the ball when what I really wanted was to feel the ball sink into the string bed and wait for me to place it wherever I wanted.

So, my question is, how well will the C10 do that?

Rabbit,

I also have the t10mp V-engine but can't say I ever really came to grips with it. It certainly hit a more damaging ball than the Gen2 but I had too many control issues with it. The 10mpGen1 I only hit a couple of times but it did seem to be everything the Gen2 wasn't. That is, slower through the air but far more solid on impact and more powerful.

I can't think of anything more specific to ask - my main query is about the feel, weight of shot and the racquet's ability to 'hold' the ball-, however, I am curious to know how string sensitive the C10 is. I will be using either straight natural gut or a natural gut hybrid. Have you found the C10 best lends itself to a particular gut - stiffer, softer, etc- or gut hybrid ?

***I should have added that the only C10 I will have available to me is the 2008 version black C10, if that makes any major difference****

Rabbit
04-22-2008, 02:19 PM
The other issue is that, apart from my serve, I am predominantly a touch player which means that, essentially, I 'place' , not 'hit' the ball (hopefully people can understand the distinction I'm making). What I found is that the Gen2 required me to 'hit' the ball when what I really wanted was to feel the ball sink into the string bed and wait for me to place it wherever I wanted.

So, my question is, how well will the C10 do that?

Perfectly. The bolded text above is, IMO, a perfect description of what you get with the C10 when the ball is centered. It almost feels like the frame is wrapping around the ball and holding it prior to sending it on its way. I know how crazy this sounds, but it's true.


Rabbit,

I also have the t10mp V-engine but can't say I ever really came to grips with it. It certainly hit a more damaging ball than the Gen2 but I had too many control issues with it. The 10mpGen1 I only hit a couple of times but it did seem to be everything the Gen2 wasn't. That is, slower through the air but far more solid on impact and more powerful.


I agree. The Gen 1 to me was a perfect improvement on the C10. I believe the frame cross section was different and it was a tad bit stiffer, but in the right places. I really loved that frame and regret selling mine.


I can't think of anything more specific to ask - my main query is about the feel, weight of shot and the racquet's ability to 'hold' the ball-, however, I am curious to know how string sensitive the C10 is. I will be using either straight natural gut or a natural gut hybrid. Have you found the C10 best lends itself to a particular gut - stiffer, softer, etc- or gut hybrid ?

And here I can give you my experience. I can tell you that for me, going from a 54/54 natural gut/poly hybrid to 56/56 rendered the frame unplayable for me. It just seemed too tight. I have played for a number of years, ever since my bout with tendonitis, with frames strung looser. After reading Nate Fergueson's interview and discussing with some folks who know stringing, I understand that you should play with a frame strung as loosely as you can control the ball. For me, that is 54 pounds.

For whatever reason, 54 pounds seems to be my magic number. I am going to try an all-gut set up, but hesitate simply because I don't want to waste a set of gut by stringing it too tight. But, in the interest of advancing science, we all must sacrifice... :) So, I'm going to string up a set of Classic in an all-gut set up at 56 pounds and see if that plays as tightly as the gut/poly hybrid did which I cut out after one match because it just didn't feel right. If that goes well, I'm going to install a set of the Imperial in my frame. That gut is supposed to be the cream of the crop.

To answer your question more directly, I like a stiffer string in the C10. I find that Classic, Tough Gut feel better to me. I think that's why I like an all-poly set up in my C10s too. The stiffness gives me control that I haven't seen in other setups. I don't think I'm good enough for an all-gut, but we'll see here directly.

AndrewD
04-22-2008, 04:50 PM
It almost feels like the frame is wrapping around the ball and holding it prior to sending it on its way. I know how crazy this sounds, but it's true.

Not crazy at all. I played the Max200G for around 10 years and that's exactly what it did. Strung nice and low it was like catching the ball in a butterfly net.

Excellent to hear regarding the stringing. I tend to string no higher than 53lbs but will drop down as low as 40lbs, depending on the racquet (midplus frames = 45-53lbs, midsize = 40-50lbs). That is, no doubt, a legacy of my Max200G days.

I don't think I'm good enough for an all-gut

What do you mean by that?

Two other questions:
1) How do you think the C10 compares to the t10 v-engine midsize ?
2) Do you perceive any real difference between the old C10 and the new version?

Rabbit
04-22-2008, 07:19 PM
Not crazy at all. I played the Max200G for around 10 years and that's exactly what it did. Strung nice and low it was like catching the ball in a butterfly net.

Excellent to hear regarding the stringing. I tend to string no higher than 53lbs but will drop down as low as 40lbs, depending on the racquet (midplus frames = 45-53lbs, midsize = 40-50lbs). That is, no doubt, a legacy of my Max200G days.

Yep, I think you may have found a match. It's a funny thing, but in all my years, I never once hit with the original 200G and never had a desire to. Back then I was a ProStaff devotee. I see now that I was missing something.



What do you mean by that?


Only that I have much better results with polyester than I do with gut. I have more confidence and better control especially off the ground. From time to time I spend time with gut, but inevitably come back to poly. The great thing about gut, especially higher end gut like Pacific is that I can play twice in one day and my half century old arm (yikes!) feels great. :)


Two other questions:
1) How do you think the C10 compares to the t10 v-engine midsize ?
2) Do you perceive any real difference between the old C10 and the new version?

1) The C10 is softer than the V10. I didn't notice the extra power that some folks have mentioned. It felt a little stiffer in the throat and hoop than the C10, I liken the difference to a new pair of tennis shoes versus an old pair. The V10 felt like a new pair. It isn't a bad feeling, but there's just something about an old pair of tennis shoes...

2) As I posted in another thread. I do think now that Volkl has updated the pallets. I talked to a buddy of mine who also made the transition from the yellow jacket to the chocolate. He said the pallets feel different to him as well. He's gone back to the yellow jacket. The new pallets feel more Wilson-esque and I'm not sure that I like that after all these years with the other shape. I'm going to give them some more time, and if I don't warm to them, I'll swap them out.

Other than that, my new ones run about 6 grams lighter than the old ones so really there's no other difference. The flex feels about the same as the one I bought in '98, a fish scale.

DoubleHanded&LovinIt
04-22-2008, 07:51 PM
Rabbit--Thanks for your thoughts, as always, from a fellow Pacific and C10 lover.

Rabbit
04-22-2008, 08:01 PM
You got it, boss!

AndrewD
04-22-2008, 08:14 PM
Rabbit,

Thanks for all of that great information, it certainly makes life a lot easier. Regarding the pallets, I'm lucky to have 3 or 4 of the older ones that I can use if I don't like the new version. Of course, given that I do like a slightly rounder shape, I might find the new one a better fit for me.

Can you elaborate a bit more on the difference between the VE-midsize and the C10, in regards to feel/touch, power, spin and sweetspot size? I don't have a great desire to go back to a midsize frame but the VE-mid is currently at an excellent price so I thought I should at least give it some consideration.

Chauvalito
04-22-2008, 08:20 PM
I used the CAP style grommets from the Tour 10 gen II for the C10...and it worked.

The word I find most descriptive for the feel of ball impact is bludgeon. The key is preparing early as the racket is substantially heavier and head heavy.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=189204

Rabbit
04-23-2008, 02:41 AM
Rabbit,

Thanks for all of that great information, it certainly makes life a lot easier. Regarding the pallets, I'm lucky to have 3 or 4 of the older ones that I can use if I don't like the new version. Of course, given that I do like a slightly rounder shape, I might find the new one a better fit for me.

Can you elaborate a bit more on the difference between the VE-midsize and the C10, in regards to feel/touch, power, spin and sweetspot size? I don't have a great desire to go back to a midsize frame but the VE-mid is currently at an excellent price so I thought I should at least give it some consideration.

My bad, I misread your post. The VE-10 Mid is a completely different animal. I didn't care for it at all. It has an 18X20 string pattern and had completely different feel. I couldn't put two balls in the court with that damn thing, everything kept landing in the net or at best short. My comparison was for the VE-10 MidPlus.

Rabbit
04-23-2008, 02:41 AM
I used the CAP style grommets from the Tour 10 gen II for the C10...and it worked.

The word I find most descriptive for the feel of ball impact is bludgeon. The key is preparing early as the racket is substantially heavier and head heavy.

http://tt.tennis-warehouse.com/showthread.php?t=189204

Yeah, I saw where you did that and it did look great. That's definitely something to consider...

AndrewD
04-23-2008, 05:24 AM
Rabbit,

The VE-mid was just an afterthought, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask. As I said, I'm not particularly keen on going back to a midsize or an 18x20 string pattern so it's no great loss. Kind of a pity as it is one of the finest looking racquets I've seen since the old Head Edgewood.

You've definitely given me some food for thought, thanks again. As I have quite a number of tournaments coming up over the next few months I'll probably make my decision in the next week or so but I just can't see any viable alternatives to the C10.

bad_call
04-23-2008, 05:31 AM
AndrewD - you're gonna have to work harder using the VE Mid than the C10 Pro. however both are excellent racquets. if the C10 becomes a bit "passe" for u then maybe find a used VE Mid for a diversion.

drak
04-23-2008, 05:42 AM
RABBIT, did you see my question above in this thread about the Becker Pro?

Thanks

Drak

Rabbit
04-23-2008, 11:57 AM
Rabbit,

The VE-mid was just an afterthought, but I figured it wouldn't hurt to ask. As I said, I'm not particularly keen on going back to a midsize or an 18x20 string pattern so it's no great loss. Kind of a pity as it is one of the finest looking racquets I've seen since the old Head Edgewood.

You've definitely given me some food for thought, thanks again. As I have quite a number of tournaments coming up over the next few months I'll probably make my decision in the next week or so but I just can't see any viable alternatives to the C10.

No problem. Glad to have helped.

RABBIT, did you see my question above in this thread about the Becker Pro?

Thanks

Drak

My bad! The Becker Pro appears a little on the stiff side for me. Of course, after "discovering" the Cat 8, I'm not ruling anything out, but I haven't hit with anything else since going back to the C10 other than variants of the C10. :)

AndrewD
04-23-2008, 02:41 PM
AndrewD - you're gonna have to work harder using the VE Mid than the C10 Pro. however both are excellent racquets. if the C10 becomes a bit "passe" for u then maybe find a used VE Mid for a diversion.

Yep, I think that will be the case. I think that I'm drawn to the VE-mid for purely asthetic and financial reasons but do realise that it's not the racquet for me.

Passion4Tennis
04-24-2008, 04:33 PM
TW lists the C10's swingweight at 323, but I've heard many people claim that it's higher than this. Does anyone know what it actually is?

fuzz nation
04-26-2008, 06:31 AM
The swingweight of the C10 is a little tricky to nail down - I have a rather new one, a pair of older ones, and one more that's even older yet, but they have different hefts from around 12.6 oz. up to nearly 13 oz. I'd guess that the lighter pair swing in the range of 327 while the heavier two are in the neighborhood of 330.

NoBadMojo
04-26-2008, 06:42 AM
TW lists the C10's swingweight at 323, but I've heard many people claim that it's higher than this. Does anyone know what it actually is?

racquets like this which have been around the block for so long get changed along the way inspite of what you might hear. companies find ways to tweak racquets and make them better or find more efficient ways to make them or find ways to save costs in the manufacturing..all these things can change the swingweight. typically they are being made lighter and stiffer with the passing of time. so someone could have an early c10 which would be heavier, they could have one made with Pure Fibre technology which would be different, they could have one post PureFibre which would be different, they could have one made when a factory change was made, etc and etc. I would say the 323sw is reflective of the current version, but havent hit a c10 in a while so am guessing.

Rabbit
04-26-2008, 08:00 AM
TW lists the C10's swingweight at 323, but I've heard many people claim that it's higher than this. Does anyone know what it actually is?

IMO, no, not unless you have an RDC or some other type measure available. I really don't think that it's going to make a lot of difference to you either. I have C10s dating back to 1998(?), the fish scale model, and with regard to performance on court, the differences are minimal.

Again, IMO, the main differences in the oldest to the newest models is more due to the number of times one has been strung. The new black ones I have swing the same as the older fish scale.

I will say this, the grip shape does feel different now that I have some more time with it. I have gone back and regripped them and they still feel weird. I may be taking these down to ye olde pro shoppe and having them replace them with the older version; the more rectangular. I posted it before, but it may bear repeating; be careful what you wish for. I'm still trying to decide, but the older pallets may be my preference.

10sfreak
04-26-2008, 06:59 PM
I've just purchased an older, yellow C10 off one of the members here, and it seems to swing a bit heavier than the black model I demoed from TW a few weeks ago...

nickb
04-27-2008, 02:01 AM
IMO, no, not unless you have an RDC or some other type measure available. I really don't think that it's going to make a lot of difference to you either. I have C10s dating back to 1998(?), the fish scale model, and with regard to performance on court, the differences are minimal.

Again, IMO, the main differences in the oldest to the newest models is more due to the number of times one has been strung. The new black ones I have swing the same as the older fish scale.

I will say this, the grip shape does feel different now that I have some more time with it. I have gone back and regripped them and they still feel weird. I may be taking these down to ye olde pro shoppe and having them replace them with the older version; the more rectangular. I posted it before, but it may bear repeating; be careful what you wish for. I'm still trying to decide, but the older pallets may be my preference.

Hi Rabbit,

Whats the string you are using in your signature? Never heard of it...

Ps just about to get a C10 in a trade...looking foreward to hitting with it!

Nick

Rabbit
04-27-2008, 06:27 AM
This is a new offering from Pacific. Its proper name is Pacific Blue Spiral Natural Gut, here's a link:

http://www.tennis-warehouse.com/descpageACPACIFIC-PBS16.html

It's supposed to be really good. I strung up a set yesterday but the rains set in. Hopefully I'll get a chance to hit with it today.

AndrewD
04-27-2008, 02:40 PM
Rabbit,

One final question -sorry, but I don't have access to a demo of the C10 here in Australia so, while I have hit with the old one, I'm having to fly a bit blind here and just trying to cut down on my chances of a making a mistake.

Hit with my Gen2 yesterday and remembered both why I liked it so much (control,spin, groundstrokes, return of serve, approach shots) and why it frustrated me so greatly (serve, volleys, tinny feel, twisting, a sweetspot that isn't as sweet as people initially claimed). Still, the feel is particularly addictive and if I could remove or, at worst, minimise the bad points I'd be thrilled.

Given all of that, do you think the C10 is the best option to replace the Gen2 or do you think there's something else I should try before settling on it? I'm not entirely keen on going back to a midsize but if you thought that either of the dnx10 mid or Becker 11 mid where potentially as good as the C10 I'd give them a try. If not then, I think I've covered everything I can ask and will just have to take a punt.

Thanks very much.

Rabbit
04-27-2008, 03:34 PM
Hit with my Gen2 yesterday and remembered both why I liked it so much (control,spin, groundstrokes, return of serve, approach shots)

Yes, yes, yes, yes and yes! There is one caveat, the C10 like all the 10-series (and Volkls in general) is very tension sensitive. I absolutely do not like mine strung tightly, but at the right tension (about mid range) am in heaven. The C10 performs as well or better in every regard mentioned above.


and why it frustrated me so greatly (serve, volleys, tinny feel, twisting, a sweetspot that isn't as sweet as people initially claimed). Still, the feel is particularly addictive and if I could remove or, at worst, minimise the bad points I'd be thrilled.

OK, the bolded text is what I can tell you turned me off of the Gen II immeidately. I thought it had a very tinny feel, not unlike that of the V-9 that Volkl introduced and the Q10 original. I just didn't care for the feel at all compared to the C10. Again, I liken the sweetspot of the Gen II to a new pair of sneakers versus the C10 which is like an old, worn out pair. It just feels right from the get go.



Given all of that, do you think the C10 is the best option to replace the Gen2 or do you think there's something else I should try before settling on it? I'm not entirely keen on going back to a midsize but if you thought that either of the dnx10 mid or Becker 11 mid where potentially as good as the C10 I'd give them a try. If not then, I think I've covered everything I can ask and will just have to take a punt.

This is tough, if not impossible for me to answer. I haven't hit with the Becker 11 Mid, but have the DNX 10 Mid. I reviewed it and thought it was a very, very good racket, hands down better than the DNX10 Mid Plus & Becker 11 Mid Plus. But, I just don't like denser string patterns. The DNX 10 MidPlus is a great deal right now. It serves/volleys great, is good on groundstrokes if you center the ball with regularity, it is better than good, and it is size-wise, very close to the 98's Volkl makes.

My 1st and always choice is apparently the C10, so I'm biased. I just love the frame and try as hard as I can to find something better, always find my way back to it for the last 10+ years.

From what I remember of your posts, you like lower tensions and softer playing frames. If i had to go out on a limb, I'd say you are a perfect candidate for my kind of frame which is the C10.


Thanks very much.

Never a problem and to borrow a phrase from your locale, Good on ya, mate!

NoBadMojo
04-27-2008, 04:02 PM
the C10 like all the 10-series (and Volkls in general) is very tension sensitive. I absolutely do not like mine strung tightly, but at the right tension (about mid range) am in heaven. The C10 performs as well or better in every regard mentioned above.




I couldnt disagree with this more. The beauty of most of the 10series frames is that they respond well to a big range of tensions and a big variety of strings. the c10 i think can be well played from around 45 to 65 pounds depending and with any number of different strings. rather than list the 10series frames this applies to, much easier to listen the one it doesnt...the t10veMid..

Rabbit
04-28-2008, 04:26 AM
there you have it, the reason it's so hard to answer.

John Galt
04-28-2008, 05:28 AM
there you have it, the reason it's so hard to answer.

I agree...tension sensitivity is a tough question and very much depends on the user. I'm with you though (as a former Volkl addict of the 10 series) in that I thought all of those frames were fickle depending on string setup. I typically string at 60 lbs.+ but on the Tour 10's, etc. I was dropping it a few lbs. and the comfort and success was greater. Keep up the good Volkl info. Rabbit, your feedback/knowledge of the C10 has been helpful. Even though I am hitting the MG Prestige currently I just might grab a C10 again for my bag. Nothing swings like an old school Volkl:)

fuzz nation
04-28-2008, 06:02 AM
For AndrewD, I think that if you don't mind a rather substantial frame, the C10, as Rabbit noted, delivers well on all the fronts that the T10 GenII comes up short for you. Even though the C10 has some heft, the ones that I have are also nicely headlight and handle pretty well. For me, the C10 has been one of the most explosive serving tools that I've ever used.

Fortunately for me, I have a stringing machine and I could go through a bit of the trial and error process to find a favorable setup with my Volkls. Since they are on the softer side, I expected to be happy with a full multi or multi hybrid, but got more liveliness than I wanted there. Now I really like mine strung with a 16 or 17 ga. syn gut at around 55-57 lbs.

AndrewD
04-28-2008, 07:42 AM
For AndrewD, I think that if you don't mind a rather substantial frame, the C10, as Rabbit noted, delivers well on all the fronts that the T10 GenII comes up short for you. Even though the C10 has some heft, the ones that I have are also nicely headlight and handle pretty well. For me, the C10 has been one of the most explosive serving tools that I've ever used.


fuzz,

Thanks very much. I have narrowed down my options to the C10 and dnx10 mid but become somewhat mired in the pros and cons of both racquets.

fuzz nation
04-28-2008, 08:50 AM
You're welcome.

I'm really sorry to hear that you don't have access to demos, but hopefully someone will eventually share an extra with you at the courts. I have only a year and a half of noodling with the C10's, but I'm a bit of a racquet nerd and have done my best to scrutinize them with my different strings. Though I expected only a so-so experience when I first found them, I've been quite pleasantly surprised by these Volkls and expect to keep them handy for the foreseeable future.

I demoed the DNX 10 mid a while back, too, but I was trying to switch away from some really stiff Prostaffs at the time and this Volkl was strangely unexiting. I may not have been very comfortable with a softer midsize frame back then, but I also have a lot of fun these days with the Prince NXG mid, too. I'd bet that if you're trying to decide on one of these Volkls as an alternative to the T10 Gen II, you'll probably get a more solid performer either way.

NoBadMojo
04-28-2008, 09:11 AM
I think there is a huge difference between knowing what tension a racquet plays well at for the particular person and knowing what tension range a particular racquet plays well at in general. A good playtester can remove his/her personal preferences from the equation. This applies to racquets, strings, tension, etc

While I too have certain string and tension preferences for 10series frames, i really do think one of the beauties of these frames is how well <for the most part> they respond to diff tensions and strings and how versatile and well rounded they are at being good at all the different shots

richie65
04-28-2008, 09:33 AM
I'll answer in on this conversation. I own, play with the VE Mid, DNX Mid and both a black and red label Gen II.

Of course with every racquet there is a honeymoon period, and I had this with all but the VE Mid, where the racquet is the best thing since sliced bread. However, with the VE Mid things keep improving as I love the feel and stability, but my shoulder does not like the extra weight (mine comes out at 12.6 oz - overgrip and small dampner.) I like the VE Mid and would use it as my main stick except for the weight issue and lack of power when I'm not 100% (which is most days.)

What I love about the Gen IIs is that they have a huge sweetspot and I can pick one up and immediately feel comfortable. I do not get that tinny feeling at all and think they are very stable. The only real complaint is that the very top of the hoop can be dead so if you are on the run and stretched out you'll give up an easy shot. Very comfortable.

As for the DNX Mid, my first month was awesome, where if there was a poor shot it was my fault and I could find no issues with the frame. However, the more I played the more I noticed that pinging sound (and I use RIP Control, a quiet string) and a little elbow tenderness on occasion. It is an awesome all-around frame, but not my main stick at the moment.

To sum up; I'm interested in the C10, as I love Volkls, and may purchase a used one in the future. The concern I have is the flexible top hoop and maybe the overall weight (see VE Mid.) Presently I would rank my frames as such: 1. Gen II Red Label; 2. Gen II Black Label; 3. DNX Mid; 4. VE Mid. Thay are all excellent frames that I (a decent 4.5 all-courter) could use pretty evenly.

Rabbit
04-28-2008, 01:44 PM
I think there is a huge difference between knowing what tension a racquet plays well at for the particular person and knowing what tension range a particular racquet plays well at in general. A good playtester can remove his/her personal preferences from the equation. This applies to racquets, strings, tension, etc

While I too have certain string and tension preferences for 10series frames, i really do think one of the beauties of these frames is how well <for the most part> they respond to diff tensions and strings and how versatile and well rounded they are at being good at all the different shots

How can one remove their personal prefernces when evaluating a frame if the frame is set up wrong? A racket's string/tension combination will absolutely make or break the racket in a player's hands. If that were not the case, then there would only be one string and manufacturers wouldn't bother with a tension range recommendation. What you've indicated is that a player can recommend a frame with no hitting or by guesstimating what the frame would hit like if it were set up correctly.

I've been playing with the C10 for 10+ years. I think it's the best frame I've hit with. That said, I cannot play with the frame strung too tightly or with overly soft string. Eliminating string/tension from an evaluation makes absolutley no sense at all to me.

TourTenor
04-28-2008, 03:02 PM
I'll answer in on this conversation. I own, play with the VE Mid, DNX Mid and both a black and red label Gen II.

Of course with every racquet there is a honeymoon period, and I had this with all but the VE Mid, where the racquet is the best thing since sliced bread. However, with the VE Mid things keep improving as I love the feel and stability, but my shoulder does not like the extra weight (mine comes out at 12.6 oz - overgrip and small dampner.) I like the VE Mid and would use it as my main stick except for the weight issue and lack of power when I'm not 100% (which is most days.)

What I love about the Gen IIs is that they have a huge sweetspot and I can pick one up and immediately feel comfortable. I do not get that tinny feeling at all and think they are very stable. The only real complaint is that the very top of the hoop can be dead so if you are on the run and stretched out you'll give up an easy shot. Very comfortable.

As for the DNX Mid, my first month was awesome, where if there was a poor shot it was my fault and I could find no issues with the frame. However, the more I played the more I noticed that pinging sound (and I use RIP Control, a quiet string) and a little elbow tenderness on occasion. It is an awesome all-around frame, but not my main stick at the moment.

To sum up; I'm interested in the C10, as I love Volkls, and may purchase a used one in the future. The concern I have is the flexible top hoop and maybe the overall weight (see VE Mid.) Presently I would rank my frames as such: 1. Gen II Red Label; 2. Gen II Black Label; 3. DNX Mid; 4. VE Mid. Thay are all excellent frames that I (a decent 4.5 all-courter) could use pretty evenly.
Richie, I am in close agreement with your assessment, however, my ranking (based on frames I own) is as follows;
1. BB11mid
2. Gen2 (red label) (never tried a black label)
3. DNX 10 mid and
4. BB11 MP.

I also have played with the DNX 8, DNX 9, DNX 10 MP and the new black C-10 Pro and would put them well behind the ranked sticks above, for my game. My disappointment with the C-10 may have something to do with the demo strings. I have never heard a racquet ping until I tried this one. I have a full swing with lots of racquet head speed but my Gen 2's (known to be soft) are way more lively than the C-10Pro. The Gen 2 is a great touch racquet with good pop when needed it. The C-10 felt more trampoline like (again it could have been the strings). And, remember all you C-10 fans .... this is just my opinion.:cool:

AndrewD
04-28-2008, 06:11 PM
You're welcome.

I'm really sorry to hear that you don't have access to demos, but hopefully someone will eventually share an extra with you at the courts. I have only a year and a half of noodling with the C10's, but I'm a bit of a racquet nerd and have done my best to scrutinize them with my different strings. Though I expected only a so-so experience when I first found them, I've been quite pleasantly surprised by these Volkls and expect to keep them handy for the foreseeable future.

fuzz,

I can't say I'm overly keen to drop back to a midsize frame but I have read quite a bit about the dnx10 mid being a bit larger than expected. As a racquet nerd LOL, what was your experience of that?

Also wonder, is there a Volkl that sits between the C10 and the t10mp Gen2?

AndrewD
04-29-2008, 08:17 PM
Okay everyone, thanks very much for the assistance. After much pondering (my weakness) I'm just back to where I was initially and that's fine. The dnx10 mid and 10 ve-mid, while they may be fine racquets, aren't what I'm after which is, a midplus racquet to fill the gap between my t10 mp Gen2 and my t10 mp V-engine. So, that leaves me with the C10. If that doesnt' work, I'll accept the negatives and go back to the Gen2 (assuming I can find another couple).

Rabbit,

Any chance you've still got those t10mp Gen2's or know someone who is looking to off-load a couple of them?

Rabbit
04-30-2008, 05:02 AM
Sorry, I sold the two I bought after one hit. The other one is a keepsake.

ericsson
04-30-2008, 05:42 AM
Any chance you've still got those t10mp Gen2's or know someone who is looking to off-load a couple of them?


I still have a new one but i'll ship from Europe, it's a very early one.

fuzz nation
04-30-2008, 06:02 AM
Hi Andrew. Sorry that I don't have more to say about the dnx 10 mid, but I tried it in a bundle of TW demos a while back and didn't get a whole lot of time with it. The racquet in that group that I spent most of my court time with was the Fischer M Speed Pro #1 SL; I've since acquired a couple, used them, and moved on (they just weren't the right fit for me).

I'd bet that the strings that came in the Volkl demo that I tried were pretty dull because I just couldn't enjoy hitting with that frame. It didn't occur to me that the headsize was wrong or anything. I'm rather poor right now, but I'd like to grab one of those mids this summer if I can just so I can experiment with some strings and get to know it. Since the C10 and Prince NXG mid are working so well for me now, I'm a lot more curious about that dnx mid - sort of wondering if it would be a nice blend of the other two. Yep, I'm a nerd...

I think that the C10 is a really smart option for you to try out - I honestly know a guy who specifically switched to it from the T10 GenII because the C10 didn't have any weaknesses for him that the T10 did. Hope you can find the same success, but again, be prepared to string it a couple of times. It's a softer frame which I find typically tones down the power, but it's also heavy and has a 98" stringbed. Those two features I find can up the power level significantly so, at least for me, this racquet requires a balance so that it's neither too lively nor too "choked".

AndrewD
04-30-2008, 07:58 AM
fuzz,

I think that the weight of the dnx10 mid might be a telling factor. Most all of the reviews say the same thing - great racquet but wears you down after 2-3 hours. Also, can't say I'm a fan of the dnx material.

What didn't you like about the MSpeed? Its specs are quite close to the Gen2 and, if the C10 doesn't work out, I'd probably try it next.

I don't think the weight of the C10 will be a concern, so long as it retains an 8pts HL balance. My only wish is that they'd retained the bumblebee colours instead of going to black with some yellow.

Not sure what I'll be stringing it with the first time but I do know I'll be stringing it low, 45-50lbs.

ericsson,

Thanks very much, do you know how much you'd like for it?

Rabbit
04-30-2008, 08:35 AM
Hey Andrew, real quick, I don't think I said the new C10s feel firmer. If I did, let me correct, I think they are the same. Look back at page 1, I think there I indicated the new ones felt like the one from '98.

AndrewD
04-30-2008, 05:51 PM
Rabbit,

Sorry mate. I'll bet I was having a flash back to your April Fools Day review where you started off by saying that the new C10 was stiffer, less head light and less mobile than the old model before letting us in on the joke.

Will edit my last post as I don't want someone to do a search and find that piece of misinformation, but I'm leaving in the part about wishing they'd retained the old colour scheme LOL.

Can I also ask your opinion regarding strings. I will string very loosely (45-50lbs: probably 45lbs to start) and will end up with gut or a gut hybrid. However, while I'm getting used to the frame and working out my ideal tension works I'll use a relatively basic synthetic. In the past I've tried ones like Head PPS and PSGD (all gauges) in the Gen2 and VEMP but found them to be totally incompatible (too dead and too stiff). Do you know of a basic synthetic (don't want to go high end as I'll be re-stringing quite soon) that performs well in the C10 - something with a bit of pop, spin and feel? I had been thinking of Klip Scorcher, Wilson Sensation or Tecnifibre NRG.

Also, how do you find the C10 to perform with poly and co-poly?

fuzz nation
04-30-2008, 07:14 PM
Hi Andrew. The Fischer was a rather good racquet with an interesting layout. Its hoop was rather firm with a wide beam, but its overall flex rating was rather low (58?). For me, this delivered a comfortably crisp feel along with controllable power. Actually, when I tried out an nBlade mp last summer, it reminded me of the M Speed right away - both are pretty sweet hitters.

For me, the Fischer was a bit on the light side (not enough authority around the net) and after I experimented with some lead, it just didn't replace any of the other racquets I had around at the time including the NXG mid, C10, and Donnay mp. I think that Fischer makes some rather good gear and I'd love to get a test drive with their new M Comp 95 sometime. If you get a chance to try out the M Speed Pro #1, I'd definately recommend that you have a go, especially if you're not familiar with Fischer.

AndrewD
04-30-2008, 09:17 PM
fuzz,

You've actually brought up something I was going to post in a new thread. That is, what racquets have former users of the Volkl t10 MP Gen II, t10 MP-VE and C10 switched to (for whatever reason). I'm really curious to see if there's a common link. Of course I do hope that the C10 works out for me but, after being regularly disappointed over the last few years, I am just a touch fatalistic.

My short-list of frames to explore would be exceedingly short and only include the;

1. Fischer MPro 98 and
2. Volkl dnx9 (not close to the C10 or GenII but worth another look)

ericsson
04-30-2008, 11:00 PM
ericsson,

Thanks very much, do you know how much you'd like for it?

Andrew, drop me a mail if you're interested, i have pics too.

Rabbit
05-01-2008, 04:39 AM
Rabbit,

Sorry mate. I'll bet I was having a flash back to your April Fools Day review where you started off by saying that the new C10 was stiffer, less head light and less mobile than the old model before letting us in on the joke.

Will edit my last post as I don't want someone to do a search and find that piece of misinformation, but I'm leaving in the part about wishing they'd retained the old colour scheme LOL.

Can I also ask your opinion regarding strings. I will string very loosely (45-50lbs: probably 45lbs to start) and will end up with gut or a gut hybrid. However, while I'm getting used to the frame and working out my ideal tension works I'll use a relatively basic synthetic. In the past I've tried ones like Head PPS and PSGD (all gauges) in the Gen2 and VEMP but found them to be totally incompatible (too dead and too stiff). Do you know of a basic synthetic (don't want to go high end as I'll be re-stringing quite soon) that performs well in the C10 - something with a bit of pop, spin and feel? I had been thinking of Klip Scorcher, Wilson Sensation or Tecnifibre NRG.

Also, how do you find the C10 to perform with poly and co-poly?

I strongly prefer a stiffer string in the C10, I have been using an all Pacific Polyforce Original set up at 54 pounds and loved it. Likewise, I find that Pacific gut is stiffer and this allows you to string it looser which is right in line with my tastes.

For something to start, you may want to just stick some PSG 16 in there. I don't care for TF NRG in the C10 at all. The TF string I did like was SPL Pro, but they DC'd it and I kind of discovered TiMo by accident. I hated the feel, but the control was amazing. I have since discovered the aforementioned Pacific Polyforce which plays like TiMo, but is cheaper and lasts longer.

max
05-01-2008, 08:02 AM
You know, I'll chip in. I have a C-9 weighted to 12.2 oz. I use Klip K-Boom 18, and it's a much nicer poly than the Luxilon I'd tried in it. Perhaps the gauge matters to me.

NoBadMojo
05-01-2008, 08:18 AM
2) As I posted in another thread. I do think now that Volkl has updated the pallets. I talked to a buddy of mine who also made the transition from the yellow jacket to the chocolate. He said the pallets feel different to him as well. He's gone back to the yellow jacket. The new pallets feel more Wilson-esque and I'm not sure that I like that after all these years with the other shape. I'm going to give them some more time, and if I don't warm to them, I'll swap them out.

.

volkl/becker has not made a pallet change on the c10. they are using the same volkl pallet as always

Rabbit
05-01-2008, 10:32 AM
whatever......

AndrewD
05-01-2008, 11:13 PM
Rabbit,

Thanks for that, I'll keep the Pacific in mind. Personally, I wasn't too keen on the Tough Gut or Prime but I am very keen to try the Blue Spiral. A lot of the old school players at our club are interested to see how it performs.

Should have asked you before, is the head shape on the C10 the same as on the Gen2 and whereabouts do you find the core sweetspot to be located - low or high? I prefer higher up (without have to add weight) but find the Gen2 to be centre and below.

max,

thanks for the input, have you tried Polyfibre?

ericsson
05-01-2008, 11:23 PM
Rabbit,

Thanks for that, I'll keep the Pacific in mind. Personally, I wasn't too keen on the Tough Gut or Prime but I am very keen to try the Blue Spiral. A lot of the old school players at our club are interested to see how it performs.

Should have asked you before, is the head shape on the C10 the same as on the Gen2 and whereabouts do you find the core sweetspot to be located - low or high? I prefer higher up (without have to add weight) but find the Gen2 to be centre and below.

max,

thanks for the input, have you tried Polyfibre?


The head shape is very different, the gen II has a kinda egg shaped head while the c10 is very oval (also smaller, gen II goes wider), even the gen I is a different mould, the core is found at the lower mid part, surely not high. (sorry to jump in here)

Rabbit
05-02-2008, 03:48 AM
Hmmmmm....I'll do a 'hold up' of the Gen II that I have on my C10. What ericsson is saying may be true, I just never noticed.

AndrewD
05-02-2008, 05:36 PM
Rabbit,

I found your review of the Blue Spiral. How is it holding up and how would you rate it's performance - over the life of the string job- in relation to first-grade offerings from Pacific and other brands ?

Rabbit
05-02-2008, 08:32 PM
So far so good. It plays firmer than Prime and has a good feel. I've got some adjusting to do, but it does feel good.

AndrewD
05-02-2008, 10:21 PM
So far so good. It plays firmer than Prime and has a good feel. I've got some adjusting to do, but it does feel good.

Are you noticing any difference in power, spin and pocketing? Also, how would you compare it to the other natural gut brands ? I've had a lot of trouble with Klip Legend over the last 12 months (the worst is several sets going prematurely dead - strung by an MRT so not an installation error) and want to move to another brand.

Rabbit
05-03-2008, 03:55 PM
I had the same experience with Klip. It does seem to go dead after a period.

IMO, Pacific plays firm, but not as 'harsh', for lack of a better term, as Klip. The Imperial has a decidedly old school feel and sound to it. When I say that I mean that it doesn't feel like there's a ton of coating on it. It is also not overly powerful like Prime or Team for instance. You can control the ball. It's pretty much everything I like about Pacific, firm, you can string it looser and not lose control, and doesn't start fraying all over the place. It holds its form nicely. There is some string movement, but in an all gut set up this is to be expected.

Power (IMO, big difference from the top two to the next level)
VS Team/Pacific Prime
BDE Perf/Pacific Blue Sprial
Pacific Tough Gut
Klip Legend
Pacific Classic/BDE Rallye

Control (Again, big difference in top layer on down)
Pacific Classic/Pacific Blue Sprial/BDE Rallye
BDE Performance/Pacific Tough Gut/Klip Legend
VS Team/Pacific Prime

Spin (I think all guts are really good at spin production, so this is close)
Pacific Prime/VS Team
Pacific Tough Gut/BDE Performance, Pacific Blue Sprial
BDE/Klip