PDA

View Full Version : Question about a particular stringing method


Double Fault
04-22-2008, 07:44 AM
The Aero Storm Tour that I own was strung by Babolat's Lucien Nogues on his visit to Uruguay (apparently he's touring Latin America giving out stringing advice, etc.)

I've only used one stringer in my life and he works over at Babolat's distributor, but he's never strung my racquets like the way Lucien did. Here are some pictures:

http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/osung_jpdty_L.jpg (http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/osung_jpdty.jpg) http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/sftgc_n10hb_L.jpg (http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/sftgc_n10hb.jpg)
http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/iuncg_jx3pn_L.jpg (http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/iuncg_jx3pn.jpg) http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/qrxbi_8k4er_L.jpg (http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/qrxbi_8k4er.jpg)

What's this method called? Also, is there a way to know what tension he strung it at?

1012007
04-22-2008, 07:48 AM
Buy a stringbed tester to find the current tension, it will be a few LBs lower than he actually did it at or just ask him.

In pic number 1 is shows the string "crossing" eachother, this shouldnt really be done

YULitle
04-22-2008, 07:54 AM
Yeah, the it looks like a standard two piece. But he made a big error there in picture #1 like 1012007 said. It's called a crossover and it should be avoided. It looks like it's on the shoulders so it's not that big a deal, but it's easily avoided.

1012007
04-22-2008, 07:57 AM
Yeah but of a stupid thing to do especially by a Babolat stringer:)

YULitle someone beat you to a post!!:)

YULitle
04-22-2008, 07:59 AM
Yeah yeah yeah. I'm still waking up. ;)

Yeah, he is supposed to be the "most desired" stringer in the world at the moment. He does a lot of stringing seminars around the world, teaching people to string.

Double Fault
04-22-2008, 08:06 AM
So this is actually a mistake? I thought it was some other way of stringing. Clumsy for a world-class stringer...

1012007
04-22-2008, 08:07 AM
Yes it should look like it does in the other pics. 2 strings going parralel.

Double Fault
04-22-2008, 08:08 AM
Anyone know how I can get in touch with this guy to ask him about the tension?

1012007
04-22-2008, 08:09 AM
I would ask him about the crossover too

Loco4Tennis
04-22-2008, 08:53 AM
because you guys said he is a pro stringer, now i seriouly think the first picture is done like that on purpose, thsi seems to be a rookie mistake if it is one,
i was not sure at first and tought it a mistake, but on second look its where my "however thinking", is asking for further review :-)
my thinking is to keep the long overlap from moving and such, so by having the cross string wrap arround it, it restricts the movement of it in a way, this is a fairly long overlap and it actually looks better this way to me

Bubba
04-22-2008, 09:05 AM
because you guys said he is a pro stringer, now i seriouly think the first picture is done like that on purpose, thsi seems to be a rookie mistake if it is one,
i was not sure at first and tought it a mistake, but on second look its where my "however thinking", is asking for further review :-)
my thinking is to keep the long overlap from moving and such, so by having the cross string wrap arround it, it restricts the movement of it in a way, this is a fairly long overlap and it actually looks better this way to me

Crossovers are not on purpose. They are to be avoided. My guess he was in a hurry and didn't bother correcting. Not good for a 'world class' guy.

Additionally, at a certain skill level, there in not that much difference in the physical stringing quality. The value add comes in the rest of the MRT portfolio with string and tension knowledge, as well as customizing frames.

iplaybetter
04-22-2008, 09:12 AM
there are so me situations where you must cut your losses and acept a cross over on a blocked hole

YULitle
04-22-2008, 09:16 AM
there are so me situations where you must cut your losses and acept a cross over on a blocked hole

I disagree, but even assuming there are, this is not one of them.

Double Fault
04-22-2008, 09:46 AM
Is this crossover bad for the frame?

YULitle
04-22-2008, 09:56 AM
Is this crossover bad for the frame?

Nope. :D _____

bsandy
04-22-2008, 10:01 AM
It's only bad if it's in a place where the string might protrude outside the grommets and allowing an abrasion.

Other than that, it just another anal stringer thing.

. . . Bud

1012007
04-22-2008, 11:30 AM
there are so me situations where you must cut your losses and acept a cross over on a blocked hole

What are you on about?
If the string has gone over another string on a blocked hole, just go over the next string on the next grommet. After all if a string blocks a hole, you can move it up or down

Double Fault
04-22-2008, 06:17 PM
Ok, so this Lucien guy, a stringer that has done jobs for Sampras, Federer and who knows who else, the world-class stringer that tours countries teaching people how to string, makes the same mistake on two different racquets?

Here are some pictures from the other racquet he did. Also, this is Babolat's new Aero Storm racquet, with the modified weight and balance.

http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/agzsu_cgon7_L.jpg (http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/agzsu_cgon7.jpg) http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/foxvc_4uqst_L.jpg (http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/foxvc_4uqst.jpg) http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/laubw_q5976_L.jpg (http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/laubw_q5976.jpg)

Casco
04-22-2008, 06:29 PM
Crossing over is discussed in the USRSA guide, and it is considered to be a major error because it raises the string out further from the racquet which could lead to more wear and eventual breakage.

It does, however, seem unlikely that a stinger of his caliber makes this error twice, but it certainly is possible given the quantity of racquets he must string. If, however, it is not a mistake then this discussion gets interesting because we are left with the question of why he does this. If it is deliberate, I might guess that it he may be using an awl and feeding the string under or around the other string (the main) before he ties off (the cross) because this would result in less tension loss with the other string pressing against it. But this guess could only hold up if, in fact, the cross-under or cross-around occurs just before the tie-off, and I am not sure from the photo that it does. If the cross-under or cross-around occurs just before the tie-off, I'll bet my guess is a good one. Even if he is not doing this, I may experiment a bit with this idea!

TenniseaWilliams
04-22-2008, 06:30 PM
I have some old woody's, and they all have mains with long strings outside the frame before tie off held down by cross crossovers.

Most of the nylon mains still test to 30lbs on my stringmeter, too.

I think the USRSA is mostly worried about abrasion at the top or sides of the head, not under the hoop.

Double Fault
04-22-2008, 06:36 PM
It does, however, seem unlikely that a stinger of his caliber makes this error twice, but it certainly is possible given the quantity of racquets he must string. If, however, it is not a mistake then this discussion gets interesting because we are lft with the question of why he does this.

My thoughts exactly.

These racquets were strung "live" while explaining how to do a good string job. I wasn't there, but this is what I was told. Does anyone really think that he would make this n00bish mistake in front of an audience full of stringers?

Loco4Tennis
04-23-2008, 02:46 AM
Ok, so this Lucien guy, a stringer that has done jobs for Sampras, Federer and who knows who else, the world-class stringer that tours countries teaching people how to string, makes the same mistake on two different racquets?

Here are some pictures from the other racquet he did. Also, this is Babolat's new Aero Storm racquet, with the modified weight and balance.

http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/agzsu_cgon7_L.jpg (http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/agzsu_cgon7.jpg) http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/foxvc_4uqst_L.jpg (http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/foxvc_4uqst.jpg) http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/laubw_q5976_L.jpg (http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/laubw_q5976.jpg)

thanks for the pic, really backs up the argument that this is not likely a mistake

Crossing over is discussed in the USRSA guide, and it is considered to be a major error because it raises the string out further from the racquet which could lead to more wear and eventual breakage.

It does, however, seem unlikely that a stinger of his caliber makes this error twice, but it certainly is possible given the quantity of racquets he must string. If, however, it is not a mistake then this discussion gets interesting because we are left with the question of why he does this. If it is deliberate, I might guess that it he may be using an awl and feeding the string under or around the other string (the main) before he ties off (the cross) because this would result in less tension loss with the other string pressing against it. But this guess could only hold up if, in fact, the cross-under or cross-around occurs just before the tie-off, and I am not sure from the photo that it does. If the cross-under or cross-around occurs just before the tie-off, I'll bet my guess is a good one. Even if he is not doing this, I may experiment a bit with this idea!

good point, tension retension could be better here i think
i was also saying it actually looks better this way, then if it was the straight overhangs
but also that it keeps the long overhand from moving

I have some old woody's, and they all have mains with long strings outside the frame before tie off held down by cross crossovers.

Most of the nylon mains still test to 30lbs on my stringmeter, too.

I think the USRSA is mostly worried about abrasion at the top or sides of the head, not under the hoop.

i would think this to be true as well, when do you ever scratch the thorat ona racquet, i guess it could happen, but not very often

My thoughts exactly.

These racquets were strung "live" while explaining how to do a good string job. I wasn't there, but this is what I was told. Does anyone really think that he would make this n00bish mistake in front of an audience full of stringers?

i tought to myself the same thing when i saw the first one and heard he was a popular stringer
time restraints or not, good stringers i would suspect would take pride on details such as these, specially if they are charging big bucks for it
i do atmit mistakes do happen, but i am more leanign towards this being a deliverate instance then a rookie/time mistake

Double Fault
04-23-2008, 03:36 AM
Well, I contacted Babolat yesterday because I wanted to know what tension he used on the strings so that I can get the same job done again. I got an answer from Lucien himself (20% prestretched, 21 kg on both).

It was unclear if he prestreched the poly only or both, so I emailed him back asking and I took the opportunity to ask about this. I might be pushing my luck, but we'll see what happens. =)

nickb
04-23-2008, 04:06 AM
This all seems strange...46lbs?!...prestretch on poly?...did you ask for that tension?

Double Fault
04-23-2008, 04:08 AM
Nope, he did it out of his own mind while explaining how to string.

His exact answer was:

PRESTRECHED 20% 21 KG ON BOTH WAYS

nickb
04-23-2008, 04:13 AM
Well I just find it strange that a Babolat stringer would string a racket at very very low tension with a pre-stretch while making a mistake overlapping strings. The rec tension is 52-62...

:confused:

Stan
04-23-2008, 04:22 AM
Let me step in here.

An overlap on the throat is not in any way harmful. Overlaps at the head are harmful and are definitely errors because the string is raised and is more easily exposed to abrasion. Crossovers on the head are indeed errors.

Crossovers at the throat are sloppy work, but I would not call them an error. They are innocent enough and you would think most stringers would be careful to avoid them, but sometimes they happen. I do not think it is fair to crucify someone for a throat crossover. You can call them sloppy, but if they choose to let a racquet go out that way it is their call. It does not harm the performance in any way.

YULitle
04-23-2008, 04:44 AM
I don't think anyone here is really "crucifying" him... We're just having a discussion. A discussion in which, I feel, all of the salient points have been made.

What is left to know, I feel, is whether or not he did it on purpose. And, if he did, why?
Double Fault: Do you mind asking him, seeing as you have his email?

Stan
04-23-2008, 04:55 AM
I don't think anyone here is really "crucifying" him... We're just having a discussion. A discussion in which, I feel, all of the salient points have been made.

What is left to know, I feel, is whether or not he did it on purpose. And, if he did, why?
Double Fault: Do you mind asking him, seeing as you have his email?

You're kidding...right? To even entertain the notion that this is intentional is absurd. He was in a hurry and paid no attention to the crossover. Again, sloppy, but no real harm. It is most definitely not premeditated nor is there any secret rationale behind it.

YULitle
04-23-2008, 05:00 AM
You're kidding...right?

Nope :D ________

Loco4Tennis
04-23-2008, 05:06 AM
dont know if everyone sees this, but on both pictures the strings that were crossed/overlapped were the MAINS, with the CROSS strings
not making a point, just stating the similarities of the overlap

YULitle
04-23-2008, 05:09 AM
Loco: This is why I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt, and at least try to see if he had a reason. Just because I (we) can't imagine any reasons, doesn't mean one doesn't exist (regardless of how silly it may or may not be.)

iplaybetter
04-23-2008, 05:18 AM
What are you on about?
If the string has gone over another string on a blocked hole, just go over the next string on the next grommet. After all if a string blocks a hole, you can move it up or down

if there are the tabs, and you have it on the top, and the string wont go through except over it, and then you cannot pass the string except under

Double Fault
04-23-2008, 05:21 AM
Loco: This is why I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt, and at least try to see if he had a reason. Just because I (we) can't imagine any reasons, doesn't mean one doesn't exist (regardless of how silly it may or may not be.)

Exactly.

He just replied and stated that he prestretched the Xcel Premium string 20% as well. He requested pictures of the crossover since he didn't understand what I meant and I sent him one.

We'll see what he says. I just can't believe that he would make this elementary mistake twice on the same day. I actually think that he did it on purpose and want to know the reason why.

Double Fault
04-23-2008, 05:30 AM
http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/ojrfu_nk0pd.jpg (http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/ojrfu_nk0pd.jpg)

That solves the mystery.

YULitle
04-23-2008, 06:55 AM
whoa, eccentric with the font :D

Bud
06-01-2008, 03:05 PM
Ok, so this Lucien guy, a stringer that has done jobs for Sampras, Federer and who knows who else, the world-class stringer that tours countries teaching people how to string, makes the same mistake on two different racquets?

Here are some pictures from the other racquet he did. Also, this is Babolat's new Aero Storm racquet, with the modified weight and balance.

http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/agzsu_cgon7_L.jpg (http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/agzsu_cgon7.jpg) http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/foxvc_4uqst_L.jpg (http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/foxvc_4uqst.jpg) http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/laubw_q5976_L.jpg (http://fotos.tenisextremo.com/fotos/laubw_q5976.jpg)

What kind of dampener is that on the racquet?

Bud
06-01-2008, 03:13 PM
It appears it was done intentionally. It would take more effort to do this twist the way it's shown here than to do it 'correctly' since there is a straight shot to the grommet.

The twist does look pretty cool :)

Double Fault
06-01-2008, 05:57 PM
What kind of dampener is that on the racquet?

It is one made by Babolat. It is called Vibrakill. Personally I hate it and wouldn't use anything but Yonex triangles if a dampener is needed.

Mansewerz
06-01-2008, 06:32 PM
Whoa, could you translate what he said? also, how did you manage to get a racquet strung by him?

Finally, aren't you only supposed to prestretch gut?

YULitle
06-01-2008, 06:35 PM
Finally, aren't you only supposed to prestretch gut?

You aren't supposed to pre-stretch anything. Gut is just pre-stretched most often. It's a personal choice either way.

prostaff18
06-01-2008, 06:52 PM
You aren't supposed to pre-stretch anything. Gut is just pre-stretched most often. It's a personal choice either way.

That is soooooo right! In stringing there is no such thing as always.

YULitle
06-01-2008, 06:55 PM
That is soooooo right! In stringing there is no such thing as always.

That's always the case!

prostaff18
06-01-2008, 07:13 PM
That's always the case!

LOL....somehow I knew that was coming :)

Steve Huff
06-01-2008, 08:00 PM
A crossover at the throat is no big deal. It was probably just because that's where the string fit through the easiest. If you look at the string blocking the hole, it runs on the low side (in the picture), so the obvious place to put the string through the hole is on the high side. That's what he did.

Now, suppose he did it intentionally. That means he's been stringing for a long, long time. With wood rackets, when you tied of one of the mains at the bottom, the crosses came over that string at the throat. In really old frames (before the 1930s), a lot of stringers did not use knots. They simply forced the string under a few of the strings on the outside of the throat and relied on those strings to hold tension on the last string. He might believe that as the string relaxed, there would be less tension loss on that last main if he overlapped it.

But, my real belief is that he does that as sort of his "signature". It doesn't hurt a thing, and that's his way of leaving his trademark stringjob. I wouldn't worry about it, and no, I don't think it was a mistake.

Dark_Angel85
06-01-2008, 08:16 PM
The stringing method on the racquet doesn't really affect your game, nor does it really affect the lifespan of your strings. If you're using hybrids of tougher strings (kevlar or poly), then the crossovers of the strings ain't gonna matter much (unless you wanna take into consideration the very minute cases where it might rub on with a couple of shots, which at that position would almost never happen).

But if you can avoid such crossovers, of course it'll be better... but Really.... i don't think it's really important
:P

YULitle
06-01-2008, 08:24 PM
The stringing method on the racquet doesn't really affect your game, nor does it really affect the lifespan of your strings. If you're using hybrids of tougher strings (kevlar or poly), then the crossovers of the strings ain't gonna matter much (unless you wanna take into consideration the very minute cases where it might rub on with a couple of shots, which at that position would almost never happen).

But if you can avoid such crossovers, of course it'll be better... but Really.... i don't think it's really important
:P

In regards to the issue of this thread, perhaps. But, in general, this is not true.